Rumor: Execs belive Cs will rekindle talks w/ Bulls about Butler

[chilidawg]

I think a solid realistic haul for Butler is this:

Bulls receive:
G Avery Bradley
F Jaylen Brown
C Tyler Zeller
Memphis 1st

Celtics receive:
G/F Jimmy Butler


PG: IT, Rozier
SG: Butler, Smart
SF: Crowder, Green
PF: Jerebko, Olynyk
C: Horford, Johnson

I think that's a trade that gives the bulls a ton of young talent, role players, cap relief, and pick. We keep a majority of our core and also keep our depth into the bench. We could probably bring in a veteran off of waivers that could strengthen our frontcourt

I don't know if it's solid or realistic, but from a Celtics perspective I'd absolutely do this.

For me, Melo makes us worse, so I don't give up anything for him.

[bogg]

Right now, I'd rather Melo than Butler.

Well, what's nice is that Boston's actually well set-up to get both (assuming Chicago decides to move Butler at some point). Since Melo isn't going to cost premium assets you should be able to save them for Butler, and Butler being on an old-CBA first-tier max contract means you can move Amir/Zeller as salary filler in a Melo deal and still have enough money sitting around to build a Butler deal around the current swingmen (obviously you need to include a minimum of one Brooklyn pick as well). If you're going to try to be the team that knocks off Cleveland in the East (and if you're flipping Brooklyn pick/picks for Butler, that's what you're doing), then go for both.

If Ainge trades for that ball-stopping, defenseless, corpse of a player, he should be summarily fired.

Very substantial argument.

Fun fact: Isaiah's usage rate is actually a good degree higher than Melo's this year, and is top-5 league-wide.

[byennie]

Right now, I'd rather Melo than Butler.

Well, what's nice is that Boston's actually well set-up to get both (assuming Chicago decides to move Butler at some point). Since Melo isn't going to cost premium assets you should be able to save them for Butler, and Butler being on an old-CBA first-tier max contract means you can move Amir/Zeller as salary filler in a Melo deal and still have enough money sitting around to build a Butler deal around the current swingmen (obviously you need to include a minimum of one Brooklyn pick as well). If you're going to try to be the team that knocks off Cleveland in the East (and if you're flipping Brooklyn pick/picks for Butler, that's what you're doing), then go for both.

If Ainge trades for that ball-stopping, defenseless, corpse of a player, he should be summarily fired.

Very substantial argument.

Fun fact: Isaiah's usage rate is actually a good degree higher than Melo's this year, and is top-5 league-wide.

So is his efficiency.

[byennie]

Butler for Bradley, Zeller, BKN 18, MEM 19.

That's plenty... the BKN '18 pick is very good, but '17 should be almost untouchable. MEM 19 is a nice rebuilding chip for them. Butler will be cheaper than Bradley after next year. Chicago tanks for a year, makes a couple of high draft picks, and ends up with a "big 3" level free agent year.

[konkmv]

If someone thinks that thomas butler horford are better than lebron kyrie love is illusional...ainge has done somethinhg very wise so far... keeping a good team level for the present but starting to create a new championship team for the future... brown smart the 2 nets picks will be our cornerstones...if the bulls would accept a deal with kelly bradley and 2 non nets picks i would take..

[bogg]

Right now, I'd rather Melo than Butler.

Well, what's nice is that Boston's actually well set-up to get both (assuming Chicago decides to move Butler at some point). Since Melo isn't going to cost premium assets you should be able to save them for Butler, and Butler being on an old-CBA first-tier max contract means you can move Amir/Zeller as salary filler in a Melo deal and still have enough money sitting around to build a Butler deal around the current swingmen (obviously you need to include a minimum of one Brooklyn pick as well). If you're going to try to be the team that knocks off Cleveland in the East (and if you're flipping Brooklyn pick/picks for Butler, that's what you're doing), then go for both.

If Ainge trades for that ball-stopping, defenseless, corpse of a player, he should be summarily fired.

Very substantial argument.

Fun fact: Isaiah's usage rate is actually a good degree higher than Melo's this year, and is top-5 league-wide.

So is his efficiency.

You're missing the point - it isn't that Isaiah should be shooting less (lord knows the offense dies without him), but based on some of the arguments here you'd think the Knicks' offense is nothing but a slew of Carmelo jumpers while Boston is an egalitarian movement-based offense with everyone sharing touches. That's not the case - Boston's the offense that features their primary star as much as any team in the league. If Carmelo's ready to buy in (and based on his list of teams, I don't think he expects to be the featured star anywhere he goes), he's actually a much better passer than Amir at the 4 spot. 

[alewilliam789]

I think a solid realistic haul for Butler is this:

Bulls receive:
G Avery Bradley
F Jaylen Brown
C Tyler Zeller
Memphis 1st

Celtics receive:
G/F Jimmy Butler


PG: IT, Rozier
SG: Butler, Smart
SF: Crowder, Green
PF: Jerebko, Olynyk
C: Horford, Johnson

I think that's a trade that gives the bulls a ton of young talent, role players, cap relief, and pick. We keep a majority of our core and also keep our depth into the bench. We could probably bring in a veteran off of waivers that could strengthen our frontcourt

that is neither solid nor realistic

How? We keep our main core of IT, Horford, Crowder, Smart, and both our Brooklyn Picks plus the Clippers pick. We also keep some sort of depth into our bench.

You look at all the trades that fetched stars or blockbusters recently.

Ryan Gomes, Gerald Green, Al Jefferson, Theo Ratliff, Sebastian Telfair, and 2 first rounders for KG
All those players besides Jefferson are role players

Kevin Martin, Jeremy Lamb, and 2 1sts, and a 2nd for Harden

Wilson Chandler, Danilo Gallinari, and Mozgov for Carmelo and Billups

All those players are role players besides Gallinari who is a solid starter.

So considering that all these trade are for players that are of a much higher caliber of player then the trade that consists of a solid starter in Bradley, a top young prospect in Jaylen Brown, essentially an expiring deal in Zeller, and pick that could possibly be a lottery pick in a couple of years. So in all I think that's a solid haul comparatively

[alewilliam789]

If someone thinks that thomas butler horford are better than lebron kyrie love is illusional...ainge has done somethinhg very wise so far... keeping a good team level for the present but starting to create a new championship team for the future... brown smart the 2 nets picks will be our cornerstones...if the bulls would accept a deal with kelly bradley and 2 non nets picks i would take..

It wouldn't, but then if you play it right and swing a deal for Butler without the Brooklyn picks, you could be potentially adding two top lottery choices in solid draft classes.
We could land Fultz who would be the James Harden to our crew and I think if we match salaries with Butler with Bradley, Brown, and Zeller then I think we should still have cap room to add some sort of FA. Not so sure tho.

Lebron won't be around forever and we want to set us up for life after Lebron.

After this season we would still have Butler for the next 3 years on a good contract relative to the market.

I think a core of Fultz, Butler, Horford, and 2018 Brooklyn 1st is a good core to have. That plus whatever cap room we will have.

[TrueFan]

Add me to the list of people who is a bit unsure with Butler.

Do we know why he keeps getting into locker room arguments? Is it about winning or about Jimmy Butler taking care of Jimmy Butler.

[Moranis]

I think a solid realistic haul for Butler is this:

Bulls receive:
G Avery Bradley
F Jaylen Brown
C Tyler Zeller
Memphis 1st

Celtics receive:
G/F Jimmy Butler


PG: IT, Rozier
SG: Butler, Smart
SF: Crowder, Green
PF: Jerebko, Olynyk
C: Horford, Johnson

I think that's a trade that gives the bulls a ton of young talent, role players, cap relief, and pick. We keep a majority of our core and also keep our depth into the bench. We could probably bring in a veteran off of waivers that could strengthen our frontcourt

that is neither solid nor realistic

How? We keep our main core of IT, Horford, Crowder, Smart, and both our Brooklyn Picks plus the Clippers pick. We also keep some sort of depth into our bench.

You look at all the trades that fetched stars or blockbusters recently.

Ryan Gomes, Gerald Green, Al Jefferson, Theo Ratliff, Sebastian Telfair, and 2 first rounders for KG
All those players besides Jefferson are role players

Kevin Martin, Jeremy Lamb, and 2 1sts, and a 2nd for Harden

Wilson Chandler, Danilo Gallinari, and Mozgov for Carmelo and Billups

All those players are role players besides Gallinari who is a solid starter.

So considering that all these trade are for players that are of a much higher caliber of player then the trade that consists of a solid starter in Bradley, a top young prospect in Jaylen Brown, essentially an expiring deal in Zeller, and pick that could possibly be a lottery pick in a couple of years. So in all I think that's a solid haul comparatively

Oh it is a great trade for Boston, but it is a terrible trade for Chicago, which is why it is neither solid nor realistic.  Kevin Love fetched the #1 pick in the draft, a recent #1 pick, and a future 1st.  That is more in line with what Butler will require, i.e. the 2017 Brooklyn pick and either Brown or the 2018 Brooklyn pick and some other asset plus whatever salary is required.  Now if you start adding in real players instead of salary filler, you can probably eliminate the Brown/2018 BKN portion of the trade, but Chicago is not trading Butler without Boston's best trade asset. 

[bogg]

Add me to the list of people who is a bit unsure with Butler.

Do we know why he keeps getting into locker room arguments? Is it about winning or about Jimmy Butler taking care of Jimmy Butler.

I would want Crowder sticking around in any sort of trade as Butler's college teammate and longtime friend to be something of a locker room mediator. It does seem like Butler's something of a jerk, and I wouldn't want him dropped into the team environment with no buffer.

[Evantime34]

I know everyone is excited about the Nets pick this year, but Butler is a guarantee, where the draft pick has a chance to be good.

I'd give them Bradley, Smart and the Nets pick for Butler. Jae seems like the vocal leader of this team and with Butler having problems leading in Chicago, I'd like to keep Jae so that Butler can just fit in instead of needing to lead. It also doesn't hurt that Butler played with Crowder in college.

If by some miracle we could give them the '18 Nets pick instead of the '17 one I'd be ecstatic, but I just don't see that being realistic.

[footey]

I think a solid realistic haul for Butler is this:

Bulls receive:
G Avery Bradley
F Jaylen Brown
C Tyler Zeller
Memphis 1st

Celtics receive:
G/F Jimmy Butler


PG: IT, Rozier
SG: Butler, Smart
SF: Crowder, Green
PF: Jerebko, Olynyk
C: Horford, Johnson

I think that's a trade that gives the bulls a ton of young talent, role players, cap relief, and pick. We keep a majority of our core and also keep our depth into the bench. We could probably bring in a veteran off of waivers that could strengthen our frontcourt

that is neither solid nor realistic

How? We keep our main core of IT, Horford, Crowder, Smart, and both our Brooklyn Picks plus the Clippers pick. We also keep some sort of depth into our bench.

You look at all the trades that fetched stars or blockbusters recently.

Ryan Gomes, Gerald Green, Al Jefferson, Theo Ratliff, Sebastian Telfair, and 2 first rounders for KG
All those players besides Jefferson are role players

Kevin Martin, Jeremy Lamb, and 2 1sts, and a 2nd for Harden

Wilson Chandler, Danilo Gallinari, and Mozgov for Carmelo and Billups

All those players are role players besides Gallinari who is a solid starter.

So considering that all these trade are for players that are of a much higher caliber of player then the trade that consists of a solid starter in Bradley, a top young prospect in Jaylen Brown, essentially an expiring deal in Zeller, and pick that could possibly be a lottery pick in a couple of years. So in all I think that's a solid haul comparatively

Oh it is a great trade for Boston, but it is a terrible trade for Chicago, which is why it is neither solid nor realistic.  Kevin Love fetched the #1 pick in the draft, a recent #1 pick, and a future 1st.  That is more in line with what Butler will require, i.e. the 2017 Brooklyn pick and either Brown or the 2018 Brooklyn pick and some other asset plus whatever salary is required.  Now if you start adding in real players instead of salary filler, you can probably eliminate the Brown/2018 BKN portion of the trade, but Chicago is not trading Butler without Boston's best trade asset.

This is a misleading comparison. First, Love was perceived to have a lot more value, true or imagined, than Butler, not to mention that the trade was practically a condition of Lebron to agree to join the Cavs. No such pressure on Danny. Second, you ignore the fact that the recent number one pick was already trending towards bust territory (was practically a throw in on the trade) and, the future 1st round pick was likely going to be a very late first rounder, not much different than an early 2nd round pick really.

[Jon]

I think a solid realistic haul for Butler is this:

Bulls receive:
G Avery Bradley
F Jaylen Brown
C Tyler Zeller
Memphis 1st

Celtics receive:
G/F Jimmy Butler


PG: IT, Rozier
SG: Butler, Smart
SF: Crowder, Green
PF: Jerebko, Olynyk
C: Horford, Johnson

I think that's a trade that gives the bulls a ton of young talent, role players, cap relief, and pick. We keep a majority of our core and also keep our depth into the bench. We could probably bring in a veteran off of waivers that could strengthen our frontcourt

that is neither solid nor realistic

How? We keep our main core of IT, Horford, Crowder, Smart, and both our Brooklyn Picks plus the Clippers pick. We also keep some sort of depth into our bench.

You look at all the trades that fetched stars or blockbusters recently.

Ryan Gomes, Gerald Green, Al Jefferson, Theo Ratliff, Sebastian Telfair, and 2 first rounders for KG
All those players besides Jefferson are role players

Kevin Martin, Jeremy Lamb, and 2 1sts, and a 2nd for Harden

Wilson Chandler, Danilo Gallinari, and Mozgov for Carmelo and Billups

All those players are role players besides Gallinari who is a solid starter.

So considering that all these trade are for players that are of a much higher caliber of player then the trade that consists of a solid starter in Bradley, a top young prospect in Jaylen Brown, essentially an expiring deal in Zeller, and pick that could possibly be a lottery pick in a couple of years. So in all I think that's a solid haul comparatively

Oh it is a great trade for Boston, but it is a terrible trade for Chicago, which is why it is neither solid nor realistic.  Kevin Love fetched the #1 pick in the draft, a recent #1 pick, and a future 1st.  That is more in line with what Butler will require, i.e. the 2017 Brooklyn pick and either Brown or the 2018 Brooklyn pick and some other asset plus whatever salary is required.  Now if you start adding in real players instead of salary filler, you can probably eliminate the Brown/2018 BKN portion of the trade, but Chicago is not trading Butler without Boston's best trade asset.

But aren't the circumstances far different here?

With the Cavs, they 1) had to win immediately to hold onto LeBron and b) more or less viewed Love as the Final piece to make a run at a title.

With the Celtics, they really have no timetable on when they have to win a title. If Danny isn't happy with the price, he can stick with building with the draft and free agency. Moreover, can Butler be viewed as more or less the final piece to be a contender? I'm not so sure.

 And if he's not, the C's really can't afford to give up much more than the aforementioned package.

[CFAN38]

My two Cs fears

1.   That the Cs unload assets for Butler when they could have Hayward as a FA. I trust that DA and BS will have a solid enough grasp on the situation to not make this mistake.

2.  They unload assets for Butler only to create the perennial second best team in the east for the next 3 seasons. The alternative is to compete as the currently are as the 2nd-4th best in the east while gearing up for the end of James reign. The the most competitively inspirational idea but the clearest path to their next championship.