Report: Melo would waive no-trade for C's; Stevens would like him, Ainge doesn't

[saltlover]

The following came from another thread, but there are a lot of Melo threads, so I thought I'd respond here so as to not clog up the board:

ohhhh 15% = 10 Million more over two years just in kickers...  Heck no!

I'm not sure if this is right.

According to Larry Coon, under question 98:

For contracts and extensions signed before the current CBA [2011] took effect, a trade bonus is paid by the team receiving the player. For contracts and extensions signed under the current CBA [2011], a trade bonus is paid by the team trading away the player.

So New York would actually have to pay Anthony the trade kicker?

And then there's also:

A trade bonus cannot cause a player's salary to exceed the maximum salary, based on his years of service, during the year of the trade

And Anthony took like $1m less than the max, but I would think the 15% kicker would still cause him to exceed the max, so only a portion of it would apply?

I'm sure our lover of salt can verify/clarify/explain though.

There are a few things here:

Firstly, the trade kicker only counts against what is remaining on the contract, excluding unexercised option years.  As of today, Melo is owed about $10.5 million this year, and $26.2 million next year.  15% of that is about $5.5 million, split evenly this year and next for cap hits of about $2.75 million each.

Secondly, while the Knicks are the team that would pay the trade kicker (and would be out $5.5 million), the Celtics still have to deal with the cap hit.

Thirdly, you are correct that the kicker could not carry Melo over the maximum salary, but it is the player's maximum salary in the year in that the kicker is activated.  Melo is a 10+ player, and the max salary for him is $30.9 million this year, so the kicker would not be limited by this provision.

The kicker can be reduced, with Melo's consent), if the Celtics do not send enough salary to match the full amount of the cap hit including the kicker.  Say, for instance, the teams agreed on Amir Johnson, Tyler Zeller, and picks for Melo.  Amir and Zeller make an even $20 million combined this year, meaning that the most salary the Celtics could take back is $25.1 million.  Accordingly, Melo could only have his cap number raised by $540,620 this season, and so his kicker would be reduced to $1,081,240, with $540,620 added to his cap number this year and next.  Melo could reject such a reduction, in which case the trade would not work.  But Melo cannot voluntarily waive any portion of the kicker except exactly what is needed to fit into a trade.  (Note: I don't think Amir-Zeller for Melo makes any sense, but the numbers were nice and round, so I chose it for illustrative purposes.)

Any other questions, please let me know.

[jpotter33]

The following came from another thread, but there are a lot of Melo threads, so I thought I'd respond here so as to not clog up the board:

ohhhh 15% = 10 Million more over two years just in kickers...  Heck no!

I'm not sure if this is right.

According to Larry Coon, under question 98:

For contracts and extensions signed before the current CBA [2011] took effect, a trade bonus is paid by the team receiving the player. For contracts and extensions signed under the current CBA [2011], a trade bonus is paid by the team trading away the player.

So New York would actually have to pay Anthony the trade kicker?

And then there's also:

A trade bonus cannot cause a player's salary to exceed the maximum salary, based on his years of service, during the year of the trade

And Anthony took like $1m less than the max, but I would think the 15% kicker would still cause him to exceed the max, so only a portion of it would apply?

I'm sure our lover of salt can verify/clarify/explain though.

There are a few things here:

Firstly, the trade kicker only counts against what is remaining on the contract, excluding unexercised option years.  As of today, Melo is owed about $10.5 million this year, and $26.2 million next year.  15% of that is about $5.5 million, split evenly this year and next for cap hits of about $2.75 million each.

Secondly, while the Knicks are the team that would pay the trade kicker (and would be out $5.5 million), the Celtics still have to deal with the cap hit.

Thirdly, you are correct that the kicker could not carry Melo over the maximum salary, but it is the player's maximum salary in the year in that the kicker is activated.  Melo is a 10+ player, and the max salary for him is $30.9 million this year, so the kicker would not be limited by this provision.

The kicker can be reduced, with Melo's consent), if the Celtics do not send enough salary to match the full amount of the cap hit including the kicker.  Say, for instance, the teams agreed on Amir Johnson, Tyler Zeller, and picks for Melo.  Amir and Zeller make an even $20 million combined this year, meaning that the most salary the Celtics could take back is $25.1 million.  Accordingly, Melo could only have his cap number raised by $540,620 this season, and so his kicker would be reduced to $1,081,240, with $540,620 added to his cap number this year and next.  Melo could reject such a reduction, in which case the trade would not work.  But Melo cannot voluntarily waive any portion of the kicker except exactly what is needed to fit into a trade.  (Note: I don't think Amir-Zeller for Melo makes any sense, but the numbers were nice and round, so I chose it for illustrative purposes.)

Any other questions, please let me know.

Good Lord all of this is confusing lol

So is there any way we can make a trade without giving up JJ then, perhaps something like Amir, Zeller, Rozier, Young, and picks? That comes to $23, 731, 640, so he wouldn't have to voluntarily waive any of his portion of the trade kicker in that case, right? Or am I misunderstanding?

I'm just trying to find a way where we can keep our bench of KO and JJ without having to add someone like O'Quinn to the trade to make our rotation work for us.

[KGs Knee]

I'm guessing Ainge is most put off by Melo's 15% trade kicker.

Boston would owe Melo a little over $62 mil in 2017-18 and 2018-19.

Knicks pay the kicker.

I'm not sure who pays the kicker.  If Melo was signed under the current, set to expire CBA (not the new CBA which starts next season), the Knicks do pay the trade bonus.

But...

The amount of the trade kicker, which is actually a bonus, is paid immediately.  The amount, in this case 15%, is calculated from the total remaining amount owed on the player's contract, including a pro-rated amount for the current season.  This amount is equally distributed on the receiving team's cap sheet for all remaining years of the player's contract.

I think it equals out to about a $2-3 mil per season additional cap hit for Boston.

[KGs Knee]

hey, salt beat me to it.

tp

[saltlover]

The following came from another thread, but there are a lot of Melo threads, so I thought I'd respond here so as to not clog up the board:

ohhhh 15% = 10 Million more over two years just in kickers...  Heck no!

I'm not sure if this is right.

According to Larry Coon, under question 98:

For contracts and extensions signed before the current CBA [2011] took effect, a trade bonus is paid by the team receiving the player. For contracts and extensions signed under the current CBA [2011], a trade bonus is paid by the team trading away the player.

So New York would actually have to pay Anthony the trade kicker?

And then there's also:

A trade bonus cannot cause a player's salary to exceed the maximum salary, based on his years of service, during the year of the trade

And Anthony took like $1m less than the max, but I would think the 15% kicker would still cause him to exceed the max, so only a portion of it would apply?

I'm sure our lover of salt can verify/clarify/explain though.

There are a few things here:

Firstly, the trade kicker only counts against what is remaining on the contract, excluding unexercised option years.  As of today, Melo is owed about $10.5 million this year, and $26.2 million next year.  15% of that is about $5.5 million, split evenly this year and next for cap hits of about $2.75 million each.

Secondly, while the Knicks are the team that would pay the trade kicker (and would be out $5.5 million), the Celtics still have to deal with the cap hit.

Thirdly, you are correct that the kicker could not carry Melo over the maximum salary, but it is the player's maximum salary in the year in that the kicker is activated.  Melo is a 10+ player, and the max salary for him is $30.9 million this year, so the kicker would not be limited by this provision.

The kicker can be reduced, with Melo's consent), if the Celtics do not send enough salary to match the full amount of the cap hit including the kicker.  Say, for instance, the teams agreed on Amir Johnson, Tyler Zeller, and picks for Melo.  Amir and Zeller make an even $20 million combined this year, meaning that the most salary the Celtics could take back is $25.1 million.  Accordingly, Melo could only have his cap number raised by $540,620 this season, and so his kicker would be reduced to $1,081,240, with $540,620 added to his cap number this year and next.  Melo could reject such a reduction, in which case the trade would not work.  But Melo cannot voluntarily waive any portion of the kicker except exactly what is needed to fit into a trade.  (Note: I don't think Amir-Zeller for Melo makes any sense, but the numbers were nice and round, so I chose it for illustrative purposes.)

Any other questions, please let me know.

Good Lord all of this is confusing lol

So is there any way we can make a trade without giving up JJ then, perhaps something like Amir, Zeller, Rozier, Young, and picks? That comes to $23, 731, 640, so he wouldn't have to voluntarily waive any of his portion of the trade kicker in that case, right? Or am I misunderstanding?

I'm just trying to find a way where we can keep our bench of KO and JJ without having to add someone like O'Quinn to the trade to make our rotation work for us.

Correct.  To not waive any portion of his signing bonus, his revised cap hit needs to be matched by the Celtics outgoing salary.  Any trade of four or fewer players that gets you to approximately $21.7 million will work.  So Amir, Zeller, and one of Young and Rozier is enough, if that's the trade you'd like to advocate for.

[Ilikesports17]

Melo has 28 tonight through 2.5 quarters.

Id be surprised if you can get him for bit assets and salary, but if you can Im all in.

[Darío SpanishFan]

Celtics have stayed put for the longest time. They haven't pulled a big trade in so long sans the Rondo to Dallas transaction even though Rondo was already on the decline with the C's.

Pull the trigger Danny. Have to win now. Put Melo at PF.

no way

Adding melo wouldn't put us over the top (and he's getting older)

Imagine if we traded the Memphis pick (or something similar), then Memphis stinks in two years, and the knicks get a top ten pick

I wouldn't be able to sleep at night

I don't want any part of melo

Memphis pick is top 8 protected so its unlikley to yield too too important of an asset.

Im not giving them a single real asset, but Id eat his salary.

Memphis pick becomes unprotected in 2021. The time when Marc Gasol and Conley will be old enough to give us a high lottery pick.

I think most of us are undervaluing that asset. However, the Clippers pick is always 1-14 protected and then it becomes a 2nd rounder. I don't mind using it in a trade, but Memphis selection could be pure gold just as the Nets ones.

[saltlover]

Celtics have stayed put for the longest time. They haven't pulled a big trade in so long sans the Rondo to Dallas transaction even though Rondo was already on the decline with the C's.

Pull the trigger Danny. Have to win now. Put Melo at PF.

no way

Adding melo wouldn't put us over the top (and he's getting older)

Imagine if we traded the Memphis pick (or something similar), then Memphis stinks in two years, and the knicks get a top ten pick

I wouldn't be able to sleep at night

I don't want any part of melo

Memphis pick is top 8 protected so its unlikley to yield too too important of an asset.

Im not giving them a single real asset, but Id eat his salary.

Memphis pick becomes unprotected in 2021. The time when Marc Gasol and Conley will be old enough to give us a high lottery pick.

I think most of us are undervaluing that asset. However, the Clippers pick is always 1-14 protected and then it becomes a 2nd rounder. I don't mind using it in a trade, but Memphis selection could be pure gold just as the Nets ones.

The Memphis pick is top 8 protected in 2019 and top 6 protected in 2020, before becoming unprotected in 2021.  In order for this pick to become so valuable, the Grizz would need to be a bottom 8 team in 2018-2019, a bottom 6 team in 2019-2020, and then as bad as the Nets in 2020-2021.  While not impossible, this is rather unlikely.

I could see getting a pick in the 9-14 range in a couple of years, which is just fine.  But to consider that a near untradeable asset is a little to optimistic for its likely value.

[Chris22]

Like Rondo, let Melo ruin some other team.

[Bobshot]

Ainge is still dreaming about Butler. He'd probably even give up that Nets 1 for him.
Surprising that it's Stevens who finds Melo acceptable.

Forget the FA period. Unless he has confidence in getting Hayward, he should focus on what he can get by the trade deadline.

I think he needs a rebounder as a priority. Somebody he can get cheap.

The Celtics seem to be right on the cusp of serious contention with the elite teams.
One more player could do it. Even just a rebounder.

[Ilikesports17]

Melo just took Paul Milsap in an ISO with 10 seconds left to tie the game with 2.6 seconds left in the game. Hes got 34.

[Ilikesports17]

Melo just took Paul Milsap in an ISO with 10 seconds left to tie the game with 2.6 seconds left in the game. Hes got 34.

next play. Melo played some good defense on Millsap in the post to force OT.

I really just dont see how this guy doesnt yield at least a decent asset on the trade market.

[jpotter33]

Meanwhile, Melo has 34, 4, and 3 today and just hit the tying basket to send the Knocks to OT in Atlanta.

He's not a perfect fit all around, but if we can get him for what it sounds like we can get him for, then I think it's a no-brainer. Offensively, he is absolutely a perfect fit in Brad's system at the small ball 4, which Brad seems set to play. Defensively it's not as ideal as someone like Milsap, but when Melo is engaged he's a passable defender and rebounder.

I just think that right now this is the best route we have. I don't see us significantly upgrading in free agency, and I don't think any other trade is available right now that would supersede this trade. It also doesn't preclude us from upgrading via trade again in the draft.

[LGC88]

Melo just took Paul Milsap in an ISO with 10 seconds left to tie the game with 2.6 seconds left in the game. Hes got 34.

next play. Melo played some good defense on Millsap in the post to force OT.

I really just dont see how this guy doesnt yield at least a decent asset on the trade market.

Because he will brick the next few posessions and give the Hawks an easy win?

[LGC88]

Melo just took Paul Milsap in an ISO with 10 seconds left to tie the game with 2.6 seconds left in the game. Hes got 34.

next play. Melo played some good defense on Millsap in the post to force OT.

I really just dont see how this guy doesnt yield at least a decent asset on the trade market.

Because he will brick the next few posessions and give the Hawks an easy win?

[NYK] Anthony Jump Shot: Missed 04:45
NYK] Anthony Turnaround Jump Shot: Missed 02:56
[NYK 111-108] Anthony Turnaround Jump Shot: Made (36 PTS) 01:29
[NYK] Anthony 3pt Shot: Missed 01:04

Maybe he'll prove me wrong this time lol