What does this Celtics team need?

[bmac934]

I'm starting to think that people around here have hope that the Celtics will beat CLE or GSW. While it is admirable to not give in, I think there's a lot of time being wasted on Boogie, Gordon Hayward, blah blah blah.

To win the NBA championship, the Celtics will have to create a) a super team, or b) wait out Lebron's career and hope GSW can get old quickly/implode. I think the waiting game is more plausible. This works well for us, as we have tons of draft capital.

I suspect a lot of people are holding onto the notion that the Celts could go on a magical run without having one of the top names in the league, similar to what the Pistons did in '04 or what the Mavs did in '11.

I don't think that's entirely out of the question if Ainge continues to build and tinker with this group, though it's exceedingly unlikely, even just making the Finals.

Even so, the fact that the team probably won't beat Cleveland or Golden State anytime soon isn't a reason to give up on maximizing this group of players.  The Celts are set up very well to be a factor in the Eastern Conference playoff picture for the next 4-5 years, at a minimum.  Meanwhile, they have one of the best coaches in the league and multiple top draft picks coming their way.

It is a good spot to be in, even if it appears very unlikely they'll contend for a championship in the next few years.

Team isn't going to beat Toronto either.  They are clearly a better team than Boston is and will be for the foreseeable future without some fairly significant changes (obviously what Boston needs to catch Toronto is a lot less than what it needs to catch Cleveland, but there is still a significant enough gap to be noticeable).

Im not sure why you believe this.

Toronto's best 5, (Lowry, Derozan, Carroll, Valunciunas, PAtterson) have missed a combined 12 games. Bostons best 5 (Smart Bradley Thomas Crowder Horford) have missed a combined 28 games.

The Celtics are 2 games back of Toronto and have played them head to head twice.

In game 1, in Boston, Boston was sans Isaiah thomas, Toronto was without Carroll, Boston led at half but eventually lost by 7.

In game 2, Boston was without Avery Bradley, controlled the entire game and lost by 6.

It seems to me that Boston and Toronto are in the same tier. Advantage Toronto untill Boston proves something, but in a 7 game series Im picking the home team right now.

I agree 100%.  I'm taking BOS over TOR 10/10 times.  Unfortunately in a head to head tho Lowry and Derozan are too big and too physical for AB and IT

IMO:  1) BOS is the better team now.
2) Again I love AB but unfortunately I dont think AB is the right backcourt pairing with IT because you have two undersized guards.  This matters a lot in a league where 75% of teams have elite pg's/pg's who are the best player on their team; BOS has an attractive trade piece in AB
3) BOS has Marcus Smart and Jaylen Brown who get better every game

Not gonna lie though Im really disappointed that in a game with so much significance; Jonas Valancunis (or however you spell it) got the better of Al Horford

[SHAQATTACK]

Throw rocks , but AB is kinda fragile . 

Every time it's playoff time ..he is hurt it seems. 

Celtics can't beat the tops teams in series with out 100 % health.

The scoring and defense is all about effort our non stars provide .   If anybody doesn't play at 100 % we are not beating those top 6 clubs

[Moranis]

I'm starting to think that people around here have hope that the Celtics will beat CLE or GSW. While it is admirable to not give in, I think there's a lot of time being wasted on Boogie, Gordon Hayward, blah blah blah.

To win the NBA championship, the Celtics will have to create a) a super team, or b) wait out Lebron's career and hope GSW can get old quickly/implode. I think the waiting game is more plausible. This works well for us, as we have tons of draft capital.

I suspect a lot of people are holding onto the notion that the Celts could go on a magical run without having one of the top names in the league, similar to what the Pistons did in '04 or what the Mavs did in '11.

I don't think that's entirely out of the question if Ainge continues to build and tinker with this group, though it's exceedingly unlikely, even just making the Finals.

Even so, the fact that the team probably won't beat Cleveland or Golden State anytime soon isn't a reason to give up on maximizing this group of players.  The Celts are set up very well to be a factor in the Eastern Conference playoff picture for the next 4-5 years, at a minimum.  Meanwhile, they have one of the best coaches in the league and multiple top draft picks coming their way.

It is a good spot to be in, even if it appears very unlikely they'll contend for a championship in the next few years.

Team isn't going to beat Toronto either.  They are clearly a better team than Boston is and will be for the foreseeable future without some fairly significant changes (obviously what Boston needs to catch Toronto is a lot less than what it needs to catch Cleveland, but there is still a significant enough gap to be noticeable).

Im not sure why you believe this.

Toronto's best 5, (Lowry, Derozan, Carroll, Valunciunas, PAtterson) have missed a combined 12 games. Bostons best 5 (Smart Bradley Thomas Crowder Horford) have missed a combined 28 games.

The Celtics are 2 games back of Toronto and have played them head to head twice.

In game 1, in Boston, Boston was sans Isaiah thomas, Toronto was without Carroll, Boston led at half but eventually lost by 7.

In game 2, Boston was without Avery Bradley, controlled the entire game and lost by 6.

It seems to me that Boston and Toronto are in the same tier. Advantage Toronto untill Boston proves something, but in a 7 game series Im picking the home team right now.

I agree 100%.  I'm taking BOS over TOR 10/10 times.  Unfortunately in a head to head tho Lowry and Derozan are too big and too physical for AB and IT

IMO:  1) BOS is the better team now.
2) Again I love AB but unfortunately I dont think AB is the right backcourt pairing with IT because you have two undersized guards.  This matters a lot in a league where 75% of teams have elite pg's/pg's who are the best player on their team; BOS has an attractive trade piece in AB
3) BOS has Marcus Smart and Jaylen Brown who get better every game

Not gonna lie though Im really disappointed that in a game with so much significance; Jonas Valancunis (or however you spell it) got the better of Al Horford

Sullinger was signed to be Toronto's starting PF and he hasn't played a game all year. 

Boston has lost 5 of 6 to Toronto and finished with a worse record every season since the 12/13 season.  Toronto was in the final 4 teams last year, pushed Cleveland to 6 games in the ECF, and is a better team this year then they were last year. 

Boston will not beat Toronto in a 7 game series, because Boston cannot stop Lowry, DeRozan, and Valanuciunas over the course of a 7 game series.  The guards are just too big and strong for Thomas, Bradley, and Smart to handle and Boston has no one that can compete with Jonas down low.  Toronto also has a pretty solid bench so Boston can't even wear them down and take advantage of the bench like they do with many teams. 

[Geo123]

This team needs a big physical rebounder, and a big guard who can defend and score.  The second one is especially hard to come by.   

[PhoSita]

I'm starting to think that people around here have hope that the Celtics will beat CLE or GSW. While it is admirable to not give in, I think there's a lot of time being wasted on Boogie, Gordon Hayward, blah blah blah.

To win the NBA championship, the Celtics will have to create a) a super team, or b) wait out Lebron's career and hope GSW can get old quickly/implode. I think the waiting game is more plausible. This works well for us, as we have tons of draft capital.

I suspect a lot of people are holding onto the notion that the Celts could go on a magical run without having one of the top names in the league, similar to what the Pistons did in '04 or what the Mavs did in '11.

I don't think that's entirely out of the question if Ainge continues to build and tinker with this group, though it's exceedingly unlikely, even just making the Finals.

Even so, the fact that the team probably won't beat Cleveland or Golden State anytime soon isn't a reason to give up on maximizing this group of players.  The Celts are set up very well to be a factor in the Eastern Conference playoff picture for the next 4-5 years, at a minimum.  Meanwhile, they have one of the best coaches in the league and multiple top draft picks coming their way.

It is a good spot to be in, even if it appears very unlikely they'll contend for a championship in the next few years.

Team isn't going to beat Toronto either.  They are clearly a better team than Boston is and will be for the foreseeable future without some fairly significant changes (obviously what Boston needs to catch Toronto is a lot less than what it needs to catch Cleveland, but there is still a significant enough gap to be noticeable).

I agree for this year, but given the cap struggles Toronto will be facing as soon as this summer, I don't regard this is a definite thing for the near future.  Nor do I think they're very far apart even right now.

[PhoSita]

Sullinger was signed to be Toront's starting PF and he hasn't played a game all year. 

Boston has lost 5 of 6 to Toronto and finished with a worse record every season since the 12/13 season.  Toronto was in the final 4 teams last year, pushed Cleveland to 6 games in the ECF, and is a better team this year then they were last year. 

Sullinger isn't a factor here.  Patterson is their best PF on the roster by far.

It's unclear as of now that they will be able to afford to keep Lowry, Derozan, and Valanciunas moving forward once Lowry gets paid this summer.

[tankcity!]

A franchise player. Not going to be picky about position.

[MJohnnyboy]

I'm starting to think that people around here have hope that the Celtics will beat CLE or GSW. While it is admirable to not give in, I think there's a lot of time being wasted on Boogie, Gordon Hayward, blah blah blah.

To win the NBA championship, the Celtics will have to create a) a super team, or b) wait out Lebron's career and hope GSW can get old quickly/implode. I think the waiting game is more plausible. This works well for us, as we have tons of draft capital.

I suspect a lot of people are holding onto the notion that the Celts could go on a magical run without having one of the top names in the league, similar to what the Pistons did in '04 or what the Mavs did in '11.

I don't think that's entirely out of the question if Ainge continues to build and tinker with this group, though it's exceedingly unlikely, even just making the Finals.

Even so, the fact that the team probably won't beat Cleveland or Golden State anytime soon isn't a reason to give up on maximizing this group of players.  The Celts are set up very well to be a factor in the Eastern Conference playoff picture for the next 4-5 years, at a minimum.  Meanwhile, they have one of the best coaches in the league and multiple top draft picks coming their way.

It is a good spot to be in, even if it appears very unlikely they'll contend for a championship in the next few years.

Team isn't going to beat Toronto either.  They are clearly a better team than Boston is and will be for the foreseeable future without some fairly significant changes (obviously what Boston needs to catch Toronto is a lot less than what it needs to catch Cleveland, but there is still a significant enough gap to be noticeable).

Im not sure why you believe this.

Toronto's best 5, (Lowry, Derozan, Carroll, Valunciunas, PAtterson) have missed a combined 12 games. Bostons best 5 (Smart Bradley Thomas Crowder Horford) have missed a combined 28 games.

The Celtics are 2 games back of Toronto and have played them head to head twice.

In game 1, in Boston, Boston was sans Isaiah thomas, Toronto was without Carroll, Boston led at half but eventually lost by 7.

In game 2, Boston was without Avery Bradley, controlled the entire game and lost by 6.

It seems to me that Boston and Toronto are in the same tier. Advantage Toronto untill Boston proves something, but in a 7 game series Im picking the home team right now.

I agree 100%.  I'm taking BOS over TOR 10/10 times.  Unfortunately in a head to head tho Lowry and Derozan are too big and too physical for AB and IT

IMO:  1) BOS is the better team now.
2) Again I love AB but unfortunately I dont think AB is the right backcourt pairing with IT because you have two undersized guards.  This matters a lot in a league where 75% of teams have elite pg's/pg's who are the best player on their team; BOS has an attractive trade piece in AB
3) BOS has Marcus Smart and Jaylen Brown who get better every game

Not gonna lie though Im really disappointed that in a game with so much significance; Jonas Valancunis (or however you spell it) got the better of Al Horford

Sullinger was signed to be Toronto's starting PF and he hasn't played a game all year. 

Boston has lost 5 of 6 to Toronto and finished with a worse record every season since the 12/13 season.  Toronto was in the final 4 teams last year, pushed Cleveland to 6 games in the ECF, and is a better team this year then they were last year. 

Boston will not beat Toronto in a 7 game series, because Boston cannot stop Lowry, DeRozan, and Valanuciunas over the course of a 7 game series.  The guards are just too big and strong for Thomas, Bradley, and Smart to handle and Boston has no one that can compete with Jonas down low.  Toronto also has a pretty solid bench so Boston can't even wear them down and take advantage of the bench like they do with many teams.

Uh you do know that the Celtics' bench has destroyed Toronto's bench in both matchups this season right? The first game the bench scoring was 32-17 Celtics and last night it was 36-20 Celtics and that makes the combined match-ups 68-37. I'm actually almost positive that during both games at the time when the Celtics gained huge leads against Toronto it was because the Celtics bench was eating up Toronto's. Not to mention both times these two have played, the guy who I think is our best player off the bench, Marcus Smart, was starting, so I think the whole, "Celtics' bench can't take advantage of Toronto's" is a totally false narrative.

More importantly, I'd love to see how Toronto fares against the Celtics when both teams are fully healthy. First game we didn't have Isaiah Thomas. Second game we didn't have Avery Bradley and yet both games were pretty close. I think the gap's a little closer than you think.

[GreenWarrior]

this team needs either:

- a change in coaching philosophy
     : the philosophy does not match what the roster can do
- a change of roster
     : if we're asked to shoot so much we need shooters, no one on the roster is an actual shooter. they're shooters by default because they don't drive to the basket with the intent to score. even IT is not he is a scorer - there's a difference.
     : the shooting is this roster's biggest issue. every other problem is a trickle-down of this philosophy.
          A) teams play us for the pass because they know we're not going all the way to the basket. ever notice we rarely have guys completely wide open? or the fact that we take so many contested shots?
          B) for a team going into the season knowing rebounding was going to be an issue, why have them take so many jump shots?

- rebounding defensive big man is a need for sure
     : but there's a problem with that. do we get one that's limited offensively? we have enough of those players. and if not, well looks like we need a superstar big man.

- which we do need a superstar.

- back to the roster subject, there's redundancy between Crowder, AB and Smart. 1 or 2 of those guys need to go.
         
   

[PhoSita]

The numbers do not bear out whatsoever that the Celts are a poor shooting team.

Indeed, this season they're one of the better three point shooting teams.

[jpotter33]

A new identity.

[SHAQATTACK]

What we can t have

Boogie or Anthony Davis



I'd just trade every thing we have , except Smart and Horford ......see if Kings would move Boogie . Yes both Nets picks , Brown , and Bradley l

Be done with .it.

It's a lot ....yes .....but your asking Kings to be bad another 1000 years in return.

[Denis998]

Some guy that can play like Amir Johnson that can get 10+ boards a game.

[Eja117]

They all need to play the way Smart plays and they all need to practice the way Smart plays. Or the way Avery practices.

Right now there's just too much softness jacking up threes and collecting checks

[tenn_smoothie]

>An All-Star Center who is a great defender and rebounder and decent offensively
> A Second Post Player (PF) who also defends and rebounds well, can score a little
> A very good shooting 3 - not to replace Crowder, but possibly in our famous 6th man role

All must be solid character guys - no head cases
Keep the main group together. I'm ok with letting Amir, Kelly and Zeller go - too soft and inconsistent to help win a title.