What does this Celtics team need?

[bmac934]

(1) offensively gifted wing = provide secondary ball-handling & playmaking along with shot-creation. Someone like Gordon Hayward or Jimmy Butler would be great.

(2) An above average big man. Not picky on the skill-set. The team can go with a skilled undersized PF like Millsap to a largely defense-only center like Noel. Just someone who can raise the level of the team in some way or another. Horford is versatile enough to work with anyone. Preferably someone who can provide some scoring but not absolutely necessary.

With all due respect Millsap and Noel are both better than "above average" & would require trade value/compensation as such.

Anyone an opinion on my trade a couple comments up?

[Ilikesports17]

@Rosco with Jah's touch your telling me he cant do the same thing and try to develop a passable midrange game?  And we can clear out some space the same way we do with Horford and let him go to work in the post.

@ILike my point was stats dont always tell the whole story. 

It just crossed my mind that because last year the only 2 good players on the team were Centers you dont think teams swarmed the paint and crashed the boards?  Making it more difficult.

He was terrible in college and then went to the NBA where he has continued to be terrible. Robert Covington was almost as good on the boards last year and Nerlens Noel who is no rebounding savant has been much better.

You seem to be assuming that Okafor is a good rebounder strictly based off the fact that he is large.

Slow your roll buddy lol please dont put words in my mouth.  You seem to be assuming Okafor isnt a good rebounder because of stats.  This isnt moneyball.

You yourself admitted Jah is a better rebounder than players we have lol I'm not arguing Jah is an elite rebounder.

OK, why do you think Jahlil is a good rebounder?

I think he is a mediocre-bad rebounder because he was bad in college. Most reliable analysts questioned his rebounding ability, the eye test says he is mediocre, and hes gotten to the NBA and continued to be bad.

I dont think he solves the rebounding problem.

Why do you believe he solves said problem. You have provided no evidence so Im left to assume that you believe he solves our rebounding issues because he is large.

Also, I have not admitted he is better than our other guys. "please dont put words in my mouth"

That was the oracle who said Jah is better than what we have I apologize.  I stated that I think it hurt him that his entire career he played with a 2nd center. I said i think it hurts him that the only two good players on that team were centers so the D swarmed the paint.  And obviously we have different eye tests.  How much 6ers basketball did you watch last year?  I had league pass and watched very frequently because I knew there was a high likelihood we would trade for JO or NN.  Jeez man your jumping down my throat you seem to be taking this awfully serious lol.

Embiid college RPG = 8
Okafor college RPG = 8.5
^ not awful

Maybe "solving" also wasnt the right word lol.  I also stated that even if he is just a trade chip its worth trading for him because he (i'll adjust) can help two areas we need help with; which is scoring and rebounding.

Also just to clear the air your "putting words in my mouth" makes me sound ignorant.

I didnt watch a ton of 6ers basketball, but I tried to watch Okafor whenever I got the chance for the same reason you did.

Jahlil was actually a borderline elite offensive rebounder in college but he was very mediocre on the defensive side. Hes continued that mediocrity into the pros. Im much more worried about our defensive rebounding.

I think both the things you mention are certainly mitigating factors for Jahs rebounding numers in the pros.

Jah wont solve our rebounding issues because at this point hes shown no evidence that he is a good rebounder. However, I do agree with you that he is not worse than our current group.

Adding Jahlil will not make our rebounding issues worse and I think he is a terrific buy-low candidate because I think Philly has stunted his development tremendously. He is gifted in the post and has the measurables and athleticism to become a good or at least passable defender and rebounder.

I dont think he solves our rebounding issue. I do agree we should still keep him on the trade radar.

Lol very good, now were on the same page.  Looking back I did an atrocious job of phrasing all my points. He doesnt solve but he address' or helps the issue (and a second issue as well - scoring).

Jah is currently working with DNP's.

I'd love to talk more about middleton too lol.

Jahlil is really a unique target because as we have painstakingly concluded he at the very least doesnt hurt your rebounding, he also could some ways in addressing another immediate need in scoring and perhaps most importantly he has a high ceiling and also fits into the Jaylen Brown Marcus Smart Nets Picks timeline and on top of all that could likely be had for cheap.

The question all comes down to a) price and b) just how bad do you believe this guy is at defense and c) how much can he improve his major flaws

[droopdog7]

Better player #1.  We don't have anywhere near the talent as people think.  And better team rebounding of course.

[seancally]

Does anyone have an opinion on: Rozier & 2 of Yabusele/Zizic/Young (and maybe Nader/Jackson/Mickey for a filler if phili is interested) our Memphis unprotected 1st and one other 1st not from brooklyn => For Okafor

Obviously we all see the cup half green but I think Rozier has a ton of potential.

I'm fine with that. None of those guys has the same ceiling as Okafor - Rozier is maybe the closest one, but still, there's a reason Jahlil went No. 3.

I would prefer to keep Zizic out of that equation, and I don't think he would necessarily move the needle for PHI, anyway - they don't need more non-shooting bigs. I would be happy to include Olynyk.

Rozier + Olynyk + MEM 1st could do the trick.

If we can turn him into a halfway decent defender in a year or so, he could also lengthen Horford's window of being a high-caliber player by taking some of the paint / interior D responsibilities off him. Even if Jahlil is only passable, he's big enough to make a difference.

[bmac934]

Does anyone have an opinion on: Rozier & 2 of Yabusele/Zizic/Young (and maybe Nader/Jackson/Mickey for a filler if phili is interested) our Memphis unprotected 1st and one other 1st not from brooklyn => For Okafor

Obviously we all see the cup half green but I think Rozier has a ton of potential.

I'm fine with that. None of those guys has the same ceiling as Okafor - Rozier is maybe the closest one, but still, there's a reason Jahlil went No. 3.

I would prefer to keep Zizic out of that equation, and I don't think he would necessarily move the needle for PHI, anyway - they don't need more non-shooting bigs. I would be happy to include Olynyk.

Rozier + Olynyk + MEM 1st could do the trick.

If we can turn him into a halfway decent defender in a year or so, he could also lengthen Horford's window of being a high-caliber player by taking some of the paint / interior D responsibilities off him. Even if Jahlil is only passable, he's big enough to make a difference.

My question was moreso from the perspective of do you think it is enough?  As I said before we all probably see the cup as half green lol

I would be fine with including Olynyk & agree that phili doesnt need more non shooting bigs - but Zizic is a very good prospect & can be used as a trade chip.  Philli can say "OK your playing abroad another year while we figure this out"

[seancally]

Does anyone have an opinion on: Rozier & 2 of Yabusele/Zizic/Young (and maybe Nader/Jackson/Mickey for a filler if phili is interested) our Memphis unprotected 1st and one other 1st not from brooklyn => For Okafor

Obviously we all see the cup half green but I think Rozier has a ton of potential.

I'm fine with that. None of those guys has the same ceiling as Okafor - Rozier is maybe the closest one, but still, there's a reason Jahlil went No. 3.

I would prefer to keep Zizic out of that equation, and I don't think he would necessarily move the needle for PHI, anyway - they don't need more non-shooting bigs. I would be happy to include Olynyk.

Rozier + Olynyk + MEM 1st could do the trick.

If we can turn him into a halfway decent defender in a year or so, he could also lengthen Horford's window of being a high-caliber player by taking some of the paint / interior D responsibilities off him. Even if Jahlil is only passable, he's big enough to make a difference.

My question was moreso from the perspective of do you think it is enough?  As I said before we all probably see the cup as half green lol

I would be fine with including Olynyk & agree that phili doesnt need more non shooting bigs - but Zizic is a very good prospect & can be used as a trade chip.  Philli can say "OK your playing abroad another year"

My guess is Philly wants players who can play now and complement Embiid / Simmons / Saric / whichever big they keep. So another guy who won't come over until next season at the earliest - especially if he's redundant with the players I've mentioned and/or might not even be good (who knows about Yabu or Nader) - probably doesn't do it.

Rozier is a good piece. Olynyk could work. Picks are valuable. But they're going to want someone who will help them compete. The process is over....

[The Oracle]

No NBA team is currently saying to themselves "I wish we had a big man that we could dump it to in the post".  Post scoring is HIGHLY inefficient.  Okafor is currently scoring .88 points in the post (per possession) which is dreadful when compared to many other options teams have to go to.

Okafor makes scoring more difficult for everyone he plays with and in no way would ever improve the Celtics offensively.  He clogs the lane and crushes spacing.  He wouldn't improve the rebounding nor the defense.  So why in the world would anyone ever want him???

The answer is a gigantic no to Okafor!

[A Future of Stevens]

Does anyone have an opinion on: Rozier & 2 of Yabusele/Zizic/Young (and maybe Nader/Jackson/Mickey for a filler if phili is interested) our Memphis unprotected 1st and one other 1st not from brooklyn => For Okafor

Obviously we all see the cup half green but I think Rozier has a ton of potential.

Seeing as Okafor is most likely at an all time low value wise, I would try to keep the MEM pick and move the clips one instead. Something like Roz, Yab, Young, Jackson and the 18 celts + clips for him. He is talented, but the more time he rides that pine, the less value he holds. Also he is truly that bad at defense and rebounding at this stage. His post scoring is literally his only skill.

[Celtics18]

Nikola Vucevic.

He's an elite defensive rebounder, the numbers show that he has improved as a defender this year, and he is a highly skilled offensive player who is having a down season on that end of the floor.

Rumor has it that Orlando is making him available for trade. 

I re-iterate:

He is an elite defensive rebounder.

[bmac934]

No NBA team is currently saying to themselves "I wish we had a big man that we could dump it to in the post".  Post scoring is HIGHLY inefficient.  Okafor is currently scoring .88 points in the post (per possession) which is dreadful when compared to many other options teams have to go to.

Okafor makes scoring more difficult for everyone he plays with and in no way would ever improve the Celtics offensively.  He clogs the lane and crushes spacing.  He wouldn't improve the rebounding nor the defense.  So why in the world would anyone ever want him???

The answer is a gigantic no to Okafor!

The majority of what you just said is a function of him being on an atrocious 76ers team.  Also obviously our gameplan wouldnt be "everyone clear out and let Okafor go to work in the post".  But judging how we do it for Horford right now (especially when we are in major scoring droughts)...it could happen for Okafor as well.

Also please dont bring up Embiid's success because Embiid is a transcendent once in a generation big (who has a much larger skillset).

You also said before he would improve our rebounding?  And he absolutely positively does not make scoring more difficult, thats ridiculous.  The same way Smart just has a feel for the game (mainly defensively), Okafor just has a feel for the game.

[green_bballers13]

A bunch of different questions at play:

Q: What do they need to beat Toronto in 7 games?

A: Health, Andrew Bogut (or similar), and that is probably it.

Q: What do they need to beat Toronto in 5 games?

A: Health, Andrew Bogut (or similar), and a wing that can score over 20ppg, on a consistent basis.

Q:What do they need to beat Cleveland or GSW in 7 games?

A: A miracle, an injury to two or more CLE/GSW all stars, Boogie Cousins and Kawhi Leonard, and/or any other combo of two or more top 10 players.

[Celtics18]

No NBA team is currently saying to themselves "I wish we had a big man that we could dump it to in the post".  Post scoring is HIGHLY inefficient.  Okafor is currently scoring .88 points in the post (per possession) which is dreadful when compared to many other options teams have to go to.

Okafor makes scoring more difficult for everyone he plays with and in no way would ever improve the Celtics offensively.  He clogs the lane and crushes spacing.  He wouldn't improve the rebounding nor the defense.  So why in the world would anyone ever want him???

The answer is a gigantic no to Okafor!

Strong words, but accurate.  I agree.

[Celtics18]

No NBA team is currently saying to themselves "I wish we had a big man that we could dump it to in the post".  Post scoring is HIGHLY inefficient.  Okafor is currently scoring .88 points in the post (per possession) which is dreadful when compared to many other options teams have to go to.

Okafor makes scoring more difficult for everyone he plays with and in no way would ever improve the Celtics offensively.  He clogs the lane and crushes spacing.  He wouldn't improve the rebounding nor the defense.  So why in the world would anyone ever want him???

The answer is a gigantic no to Okafor!

The majority of what you just said is a function of him being on an atrocious 76ers team.  Also obviously our gameplan wouldnt be "everyone clear out and let Okafor go to work in the post".  But judging how we do it for Horford right now (especially when we are in major scoring droughts)...it could happen for Okafor as well.

Also please dont bring up Embiid's success because Embiid is a transcendent once in a generation big (who has a much larger skillset).

Not really.  He's not a perimeter shooter, he's not a good passer, he's not a good defender, or a good rebounder.

Yes, he is a good post scorer with exceptional moves on the block.  Unfortunately, in today's NBA, if that is all you can do, you don't have much value and become easy to defend and generally a liability to your team. 

That's his problem.  That problem would follow him anywhere.

[bmac934]

No NBA team is currently saying to themselves "I wish we had a big man that we could dump it to in the post".  Post scoring is HIGHLY inefficient.  Okafor is currently scoring .88 points in the post (per possession) which is dreadful when compared to many other options teams have to go to.

Okafor makes scoring more difficult for everyone he plays with and in no way would ever improve the Celtics offensively.  He clogs the lane and crushes spacing.  He wouldn't improve the rebounding nor the defense.  So why in the world would anyone ever want him???

The answer is a gigantic no to Okafor!

The majority of what you just said is a function of him being on an atrocious 76ers team.  Also obviously our gameplan wouldnt be "everyone clear out and let Okafor go to work in the post".  But judging how we do it for Horford right now (especially when we are in major scoring droughts)...it could happen for Okafor as well.

Also please dont bring up Embiid's success because Embiid is a transcendent once in a generation big (who has a much larger skillset).

Not really.  He's not a perimeter shooter, he's not a good passer, he's not a good defender, or a good rebounder.

Yes, he is a good post scorer with exceptional moves on the block.  Unfortunately, in today's NBA, if that is all you can do, you don't have much value and become easy to defend and generally a liability to your team. 

That's his problem.  That problem would follow him anywhere.

If you think hes not a good passer than you need to watch him more often.  Hes a very good passer lol it just doesnt materialize into assists because Phili is garbage.  He also has fantastic touch shooting the basketball & does not need to be in the paint to score.  He 100% has the potential to develop a more than "passable mid range game" (I personally actually expect it).  He also rebounds the ball more effectively than anyone not named Horford on our team.

Coming into the league the guy was compared to Tim duncan for his ability to feel out the game offensively.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

Aside from a franchise player, the same thing it needed last year in no particular order

Wing Scorer
Rebounding
Big man depth

Ditto.