What does this Celtics team need?

[mahcus smaht]

IMO Okafor isn't the answer, first he's an old fashion back to the basket center, that doesn't fit into the style of play CBS and DA want to play. As an organization you must settle on a style of play that your team will be designed around. You can't be every style.

Okafor is a walking "minus" because of his "swiss cheese" defense. He struggles to get back on defense, his conditioning is suspect. He doesn't rebound very well. IMO I feel Okafor will slow the Celtic pace down to a crawl.

Noel runs the floor well, can defend 3 positions, he adds energy to the game on both ends, his playing pace is much faster than Okafor, he protects the rim, and is an improving offensive player. He's far from perfect, he'll never be a Cousins, but he's a better choice than Jah.

Secondly, we need a wing that can consistently score, add energy, and find his own shot on the second unit. Kind on like what Green has been doing for several games now.

You just described Jared Sullinger last year.  Jared Sullinger who was on the floor in late game situations almost every game.  Except Okafor 100% has better conditioning then Sully idc what anyone says.  And conditioning was the reason DA didnt resign Sully.

If your referring to a green type of wing scorer off the bench yes I'm all for it.  But the lions share of celtics fans (even maybe including yourself) are referring to a franchise player type wing.

Why does everyone think Jah cant rebound?  If your just looking at stats obviously being in a three 7 foot center system is going to come with a shared workload.

Sully was a very good rebounder, that was working on stretching his game out beyond the paint, and the arch. He was trying to fit into the Stevens system. Okafor lives in the paint, that's where he thrives at this point in his career.

While Noel could be a solid, defensive minded starting center in the near future. I understand offense is valuable, but so is defense, and especially in the playoffs.

Sadly we downgraded with Horford.  Sully had a better 3 and could rebound.  Younger

Sully did not have a better 3. Horford is a far better defender. I think they are comparable passers (an area Ive always felt sullinger to be really really good).

Horford does just about everything else better than Sully too, but Sullinger is more of a gamer. I always felt he was a big game player (untill he dissapeared in the playoffs last year).

Ultimately Horford is still a big upgrade from Sully. You couldnt count on him to be healthy or play smart basketball. He was also a miserable defender when he wasnt absolutely locked in.

Watching Al this year has been a bummer because rookie year Sully looked like he could have turned into a smaller Horford type player + rebounding.

[mctyson]

1. With that being said I think this Celtics team needs to start Smart and bring AB off the bench.

No!

[mctyson]

They just need another big guy who can defend and rebound. That is it! 

[bmac934]

1. With that being said I think this Celtics team needs to start Smart and bring AB off the bench.

No!

LOL I respect your opinion but dont think I've ever seen a yes/no answer on celticsblog before

MOD: Nvm you broke it up into two answers
I definitely think it makes us a better team as a whole (more well rounded) & then in late game situations Stevens can assess as he sees fit.  I see where your most likely coming from (you didnt explain) and I also like smart more than bradley; but still think it would be a good move.

[Ilikesports17]

@Rosco with Jah's touch your telling me he cant do the same thing and try to develop a passable midrange game?  And we can clear out some space the same way we do with Horford and let him go to work in the post.

@ILike my point was stats dont always tell the whole story. 

It just crossed my mind that because last year the only 2 good players on the team were Centers you dont think teams swarmed the paint and crashed the boards?  Making it more difficult.

He was terrible in college and then went to the NBA where he has continued to be terrible. Robert Covington was almost as good on the boards last year and Nerlens Noel who is no rebounding savant has been much better.

You seem to be assuming that Okafor is a good rebounder strictly based off the fact that he is large.

Slow your roll buddy lol please dont put words in my mouth.  You seem to be assuming Okafor isnt a good rebounder because of stats.  This isnt moneyball.

You yourself admitted Jah is a better rebounder than players we have lol I'm not arguing Jah is an elite rebounder.

OK, why do you think Jahlil is a good rebounder?

I think he is a mediocre-bad rebounder because he was bad in college. Most reliable analysts questioned his rebounding ability, the eye test says he is mediocre, and hes gotten to the NBA and continued to be bad.

I dont think he solves the rebounding problem.

Why do you believe he solves said problem. You have provided no evidence so Im left to assume that you believe he solves our rebounding issues because he is large.

Also, I have not admitted he is better than our other guys. "please dont put words in my mouth"

[PhoSita]

They just need another big guy who can defend and rebound. That is it!

The key here, though, is that they already have bigs who are capable of defending other big men.  That's not the problem.

They need a big who can address their weakness on the defensive boards and who also has the ability to switch onto more mobile / perimeter oriented players that Horford and Amir struggle to guard.

[bmac934]

@Rosco with Jah's touch your telling me he cant do the same thing and try to develop a passable midrange game?  And we can clear out some space the same way we do with Horford and let him go to work in the post.

@ILike my point was stats dont always tell the whole story. 

It just crossed my mind that because last year the only 2 good players on the team were Centers you dont think teams swarmed the paint and crashed the boards?  Making it more difficult.

He was terrible in college and then went to the NBA where he has continued to be terrible. Robert Covington was almost as good on the boards last year and Nerlens Noel who is no rebounding savant has been much better.

You seem to be assuming that Okafor is a good rebounder strictly based off the fact that he is large.

Slow your roll buddy lol please dont put words in my mouth.  You seem to be assuming Okafor isnt a good rebounder because of stats.  This isnt moneyball.

You yourself admitted Jah is a better rebounder than players we have lol I'm not arguing Jah is an elite rebounder.

OK, why do you think Jahlil is a good rebounder?

I think he is a mediocre-bad rebounder because he was bad in college. Most reliable analysts questioned his rebounding ability, the eye test says he is mediocre, and hes gotten to the NBA and continued to be bad.

I dont think he solves the rebounding problem.

Why do you believe he solves said problem. You have provided no evidence so Im left to assume that you believe he solves our rebounding issues because he is large.

Also, I have not admitted he is better than our other guys. "please dont put words in my mouth"

That was the oracle who said Jah is better than what we have I apologize.  I stated that I think it hurt him that his entire career he played with a 2nd center. I said i think it hurts him that the only two good players on that team were centers so the D swarmed the paint.  And obviously we have different eye tests.  How much 6ers basketball did you watch last year?  I had league pass and watched very frequently because I knew there was a high likelihood we would trade for JO or NN.  Jeez man your jumping down my throat you seem to be taking this awfully serious lol.

Embiid college RPG = 8
Okafor college RPG = 8.5
^ not awful

Maybe "solving" also wasnt the right word lol.  I also stated that even if he is just a trade chip its worth trading for him because he (i'll adjust) can help two areas we need help with; which is scoring and rebounding.

Also just to clear the air your "putting words in my mouth" makes me sound ignorant.

[seancally]

Count me in for an Okafor trade (obviously depending on the assets we give up). He's got great size, great hands, quick feet and we already know he can score on NBA starting-caliber bigs. He's a good passer and has great instincts on offense.

I think he can become a better rebounder and team defender. He's really young and would benefit from playing with a seasoned veteran big in Horford and under Brad's leadership. I see little downside risk to trading for Okafor unless it means giving up the BKN picks or Jaylen Brown. I'd personally like to keep Smart, too, and would rather send Rozier + non-BKN first-rounder or some such thing. But Philly probably wants more for their No. 3 overall pick.

On top of all that, he's on a rookie deal and doesn't hurt our flexibility.

[Ilikesports17]

@Rosco with Jah's touch your telling me he cant do the same thing and try to develop a passable midrange game?  And we can clear out some space the same way we do with Horford and let him go to work in the post.

@ILike my point was stats dont always tell the whole story. 

It just crossed my mind that because last year the only 2 good players on the team were Centers you dont think teams swarmed the paint and crashed the boards?  Making it more difficult.

He was terrible in college and then went to the NBA where he has continued to be terrible. Robert Covington was almost as good on the boards last year and Nerlens Noel who is no rebounding savant has been much better.

You seem to be assuming that Okafor is a good rebounder strictly based off the fact that he is large.

Slow your roll buddy lol please dont put words in my mouth.  You seem to be assuming Okafor isnt a good rebounder because of stats.  This isnt moneyball.

You yourself admitted Jah is a better rebounder than players we have lol I'm not arguing Jah is an elite rebounder.

OK, why do you think Jahlil is a good rebounder?

I think he is a mediocre-bad rebounder because he was bad in college. Most reliable analysts questioned his rebounding ability, the eye test says he is mediocre, and hes gotten to the NBA and continued to be bad.

I dont think he solves the rebounding problem.

Why do you believe he solves said problem. You have provided no evidence so Im left to assume that you believe he solves our rebounding issues because he is large.

Also, I have not admitted he is better than our other guys. "please dont put words in my mouth"

That was the oracle who said Jah is better than what we have I apologize.  I stated that I think it hurt him that his entire career he played with a 2nd center. I said i think it hurts him that the only two good players on that team were centers so the D swarmed the paint.  And obviously we have different eye tests.  How much 6ers basketball did you watch last year?  I had league pass and watched very frequently because I knew there was a high likelihood we would trade for JO or NN.  Jeez man your jumping down my throat you seem to be taking this awfully serious lol.

Embiid college RPG = 8
Okafor college RPG = 8.5
^ not awful

Maybe "solving" also wasnt the right word lol.  I also stated that even if he is just a trade chip its worth trading for him because he (i'll adjust) can help two areas we need help with; which is scoring and rebounding.

Also just to clear the air your "putting words in my mouth" makes me sound ignorant.

I didnt watch a ton of 6ers basketball, but I tried to watch Okafor whenever I got the chance for the same reason you did.

Jahlil was actually a borderline elite offensive rebounder in college but he was very mediocre on the defensive side. Hes continued that mediocrity into the pros. Im much more worried about our defensive rebounding.

I think both the things you mention are certainly mitigating factors for Jahs rebounding numers in the pros.

Jah wont solve our rebounding issues because at this point hes shown no evidence that he is a good rebounder. However, I do agree with you that he is not worse than our current group.

Adding Jahlil will not make our rebounding issues worse and I think he is a terrific buy-low candidate because I think Philly has stunted his development tremendously. He is gifted in the post and has the measurables and athleticism to become a good or at least passable defender and rebounder.

I dont think he solves our rebounding issue. I do agree we should still keep him on the trade radar.

[bmac934]

Count me in for an Okafor trade (obviously depending on the assets we give up). He's got great size, great hands, quick feet and we already know he can score on NBA starting-caliber bigs. He's a good passer and has great instincts on offense.

I think he can become a better rebounder and team defender. He's really young and would benefit from playing with a seasoned veteran big in Horford and under Brad's leadership. I see little downside risk to trading for Okafor unless it means giving up the BKN picks or Jaylen Brown. I'd personally like to keep Smart, too, and would rather send Rozier + non-BKN first-rounder or some such thing. But Philly probably wants more for their No. 3 overall pick.

On top of all that, he's on a rookie deal and doesn't hurt our flexibility.

IMO Rozier & 2 of Yabusele/Zizic/Young (and maybe Nader/Jackson/Mickey for a filler if phili is interested) our Memphis unprotected 1st and one other 1st not from brooklyn would be a solid deal

[bmac934]

@Rosco with Jah's touch your telling me he cant do the same thing and try to develop a passable midrange game?  And we can clear out some space the same way we do with Horford and let him go to work in the post.

@ILike my point was stats dont always tell the whole story. 

It just crossed my mind that because last year the only 2 good players on the team were Centers you dont think teams swarmed the paint and crashed the boards?  Making it more difficult.

He was terrible in college and then went to the NBA where he has continued to be terrible. Robert Covington was almost as good on the boards last year and Nerlens Noel who is no rebounding savant has been much better.

You seem to be assuming that Okafor is a good rebounder strictly based off the fact that he is large.

Slow your roll buddy lol please dont put words in my mouth.  You seem to be assuming Okafor isnt a good rebounder because of stats.  This isnt moneyball.

You yourself admitted Jah is a better rebounder than players we have lol I'm not arguing Jah is an elite rebounder.

OK, why do you think Jahlil is a good rebounder?

I think he is a mediocre-bad rebounder because he was bad in college. Most reliable analysts questioned his rebounding ability, the eye test says he is mediocre, and hes gotten to the NBA and continued to be bad.

I dont think he solves the rebounding problem.

Why do you believe he solves said problem. You have provided no evidence so Im left to assume that you believe he solves our rebounding issues because he is large.

Also, I have not admitted he is better than our other guys. "please dont put words in my mouth"

That was the oracle who said Jah is better than what we have I apologize.  I stated that I think it hurt him that his entire career he played with a 2nd center. I said i think it hurts him that the only two good players on that team were centers so the D swarmed the paint.  And obviously we have different eye tests.  How much 6ers basketball did you watch last year?  I had league pass and watched very frequently because I knew there was a high likelihood we would trade for JO or NN.  Jeez man your jumping down my throat you seem to be taking this awfully serious lol.

Embiid college RPG = 8
Okafor college RPG = 8.5
^ not awful

Maybe "solving" also wasnt the right word lol.  I also stated that even if he is just a trade chip its worth trading for him because he (i'll adjust) can help two areas we need help with; which is scoring and rebounding.

Also just to clear the air your "putting words in my mouth" makes me sound ignorant.

I didnt watch a ton of 6ers basketball, but I tried to watch Okafor whenever I got the chance for the same reason you did.

Jahlil was actually a borderline elite offensive rebounder in college but he was very mediocre on the defensive side. Hes continued that mediocrity into the pros. Im much more worried about our defensive rebounding.

I think both the things you mention are certainly mitigating factors for Jahs rebounding numers in the pros.

Jah wont solve our rebounding issues because at this point hes shown no evidence that he is a good rebounder. However, I do agree with you that he is not worse than our current group.

Adding Jahlil will not make our rebounding issues worse and I think he is a terrific buy-low candidate because I think Philly has stunted his development tremendously. He is gifted in the post and has the measurables and athleticism to become a good or at least passable defender and rebounder.

I dont think he solves our rebounding issue. I do agree we should still keep him on the trade radar.

Lol very good, now were on the same page.  Looking back I did an atrocious job of phrasing all my points. He doesnt solve but he address' or helps the issue (and a second issue as well - scoring).

Jah is currently working with DNP's.

I'd love to talk more about middleton too lol.

[CelticGuardian]

The C's need to develop their young talent, Jaylen, Smart, Nets picks, etc. Those are the only players that will have the size needed in the Starting lineup. They need a generational talent that's also a leader of men, someone that will command the ball and is not hindered by the limitations currently present on the roster such as; lack of size, lack of physicality, lack of inside scoring, lack of shot creators outside of IT, and inconsistency with offensive execution.


Cousins stands to make a lot of money resigning with the Kings and I think he will end up being the next Carmelo Anthony, without so much as half the success, he's the trade target that makes the most sense as this roster is constructed, especially if DA signs Hayward in the offseason but I think that window is very narrow with IT and Bradley set to hit FA same time as Cousins, if we hypothetically pay IT 20 mill, and AB 15 mill, what will there be left to resign Cousins after we are done securing quality backups as well?

[number_n9ne]

I'd be ecstatic to land Okafor as long as it was for the right price. No BKN/MEM picks. Something like Rozier, Olynyk, and a late first/early second. He has a mature post game for his age which is why I think people forget how young he really is and how much potential he still has.

[bmac934]

Does anyone have an opinion on: Rozier & 2 of Yabusele/Zizic/Young (and maybe Nader/Jackson/Mickey for a filler if phili is interested) our Memphis unprotected 1st and one other 1st not from brooklyn => For Okafor

Obviously we all see the cup half green but I think Rozier has a ton of potential.

[Who]

(1) offensively gifted wing = provide secondary ball-handling & playmaking along with shot-creation. Someone like Gordon Hayward or Jimmy Butler would be great.

(2) An above average starting big man. Not picky on the skill-set. The team can go with a skilled undersized PF like Millsap to a largely defense-only center like Noel. Horford is versatile enough to work with anyone. Just someone who can raise the level of the team in some way or another. Preferably someone who can provide some scoring but not absolutely necessary.