All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)

[celticsclay]

Are we reallly back to this?

[RAAAAAAAANDY]

The Celtics won more game last year than Philly did in the 13/14, 14/15, 15/16 seasons put together.

Championships trump all, but if these teams end up with even comparable success the Celtics come out wayyyy on top.

They should come out on top, Ainge started out with a much more favorable situation than Hinkie.

[GratefulCs]

Are we reallly back to this?

unfortunately

[Celtics18]

If the following things are true:

1. Your enjoyment from watching a good but not Championship-level team is exactly 0

2. You are confident that the league won't change the rules mid-stream and screw you over

Then I agree that the optimal strategy is to trade everyone, draft players, trade every one of those players who won't be a superstar, draft more players, and repeat until you have a critical mass of superstars. 

Follow boom-bust cycles where you are the worst team in the league for 5~8 years, and then are hopefully really good for 5~8 years.

As good as Boston is right now, they aren't yet a true contender.  And while I truly hope that changes soon, it's not at all far fetched that we could see a scenario where teams like the timberwolves and 76ers become true contenders before we do.   This isn't a straight forward race.  A single superstar acquisition changes everything.  We should win 55 games this season.  Without a major addition, we might be a 50-55 win team for a while.   We've seen teams jump from 20 to 60 wins rapidly.   We could still get lapped.

That part in bold is what you're trying to say, right?

no.  I love watching this non-contender probably almost as much as Philly fans are enjoying watching their non-contender right now.   Both fan bases are lit right now.  I'm just saying that if the goal is to be a real contender, both teams aren't there yet.

The Celtics and Sixers are currently at different levels of "non-contention."  The Sixers are currently on pace to win about 23 games (a marked improvement over the last three seasons).  The Celtics are on pace to win more than twice as many games. 

True contender?  Probably not, but the Celtics are good enough to be top three in the conference and be one of the biggest threats to Cleveland in the East. 

So, to me and surely many other fans, "non-contender" isn't a single category.  There are a few sub categories there, of which I'm thrilled to see our Celtics at the top.

I respect teams that build and rebuild while putting out a good, competitive team.  I don't respect teams that spend upwards of four years or more in a row racing to the bottom, hoping to strike it rich in the draft.  One, maybe two, "tank" years I can see as part of the natural process of rebuilding or re-tooling, but the way the Sixers (and others before them) are doing it is pathetic. 

And, truth be told,  it's very rare that this kind of prolonged terribleness leads to putting a team in legitimate title contention.

[green_bballers13]

I find it interesting that in LarBrd's world the 76ers and Celtics are roughly equivalent in success over the past couple of years, using one metric: playoff series wins.

Prior to Embiid, the 76ers have been arguably unwatchable, while the Celtics have been very exciting. I have bought tickets to many Celtics games b/c I like watching them play their brand of basketball.

I think fans that can only appreciate the Celtics if they make it to the NBA finals are missing out on a lot of fun.

Re: this thread- I think Noel walks, and so does Okafor. Embiid/Simmons/next year's pg should be a good team, but how long will that take? 2020? 2022?

I would rather watch a team try and win now, while maintaining a bright future of high draft picks.

[oldtype]

Interesting Woj podcast with Noel today. Dude really, really, really hates Philly.

[Surferdad]

Interesting Woj podcast with Noel today. Dude really, really, really hates Philly.

He is watching his own career rot on the vine.  I don't blame him.

[oldtype]

Interesting Woj podcast with Noel today. Dude really, really, really hates Philly.

He is watching his own career rot on the vine.  I don't blame him.

Yeah he seems quite exasperated.  Lots of talk about how difficult losing was, and indirectly accuses Sixers management of keeping him out longer than they had to.

[Smokeeye123]

I find it interesting that in LarBrd's world the 76ers and Celtics are roughly equivalent in success over the past couple of years, using one metric: playoff series wins.

Prior to Embiid, the 76ers have been arguably unwatchable, while the Celtics have been very exciting. I have bought tickets to many Celtics games b/c I like watching them play their brand of basketball.

I think fans that can only appreciate the Celtics if they make it to the NBA finals are missing out on a lot of fun.

Re: this thread- I think Noel walks, and so does Okafor. Embiid/Simmons/next year's pg should be a good team, but how long will that take? 2020? 2022?

I would rather watch a team try and win now, while maintaining a bright future of high draft picks.

I mean in a way they have been more successful. They netted at least 1 blue chip player in Embiid who is already a top 5 center. They also probably have another in Simmons but i'll wait until I see him play. Winning wise it's obviously not even close but if you are judging by franchise building then it's tougher to say.

[LarBrd33]

I find it interesting that in LarBrd's world the 76ers and Celtics are roughly equivalent in success over the past couple of years, using one metric: playoff series wins.

To be clear, my point is that if both teams are trying to become contenders, neither has yet succeeded.  I suspect Boston will keep making improvements.  A trade or big draft could vault them into contention.  We certainly hope that happens.  But having seen teams make rapid jumps from 20 wins to 60+, It's not out of the realm of possibility that teams like Philly and the Wolves become contenders before we do.

No doubt that Boston is a better team right now.  We should win about 55 games.  We could finish 2nd in the East.   We could win as many as two playoff series this year.

A full-strength Philly team is probably closer to a .500 win borderline playoff team than it is a league bottomfeeder - they are 7-7 in games Embiid has scored 20 or more (which is an encouraging sign of what's to come when the minutes restriction lifts for the future superstar).   They are 4-3 in games Noel has received 10 minutes or more (he's been injured for most of the year and has 25 minutes in his last two games - the success speaks to the possibility of him fitting in there long-term as an elite backup big man)... and of course they have still not suited up their other potential franchise player, Ben Simmons.   Despite this, Philly at max strength is still very unlikely to be anywhere near as good as Boston is right now for at least a couple years.

That said, fan approval for the two teams has to be about even right now.  I mean, we LOVE Thomas, but I'm pretty sure Philly fans are already naming their children after Embiid.  And it's telling that in our very own Arena in Boston, chants of "TRUST THE PROCESS!!" drowned out our own fans.   I doubt there are many Philly fans that would swap places with us.   So in response to oldtype's earlier comment questioning if fans can enjoy watching a team that isn't a contender... the point is if don't care about being a contender right now and are measuring success by entertainment factor and enjoyment of watching non-contenders play, Philly fans and Boston fans are both pretty elated right now. 

[celticsclay]

I find it interesting that in LarBrd's world the 76ers and Celtics are roughly equivalent in success over the past couple of years, using one metric: playoff series wins.

To be clear, my point is that if both teams are trying to become contenders, neither has yet succeeded.  I suspect Boston will keep making improvements.  A trade or big draft could vault them into contention.  We certainly hope that happens.  But having seen teams make rapid jumps from 20 wins to 60+, It's not out of the realm of possibility that teams like Philly and the Wolves become contenders before we do.

No doubt that Boston is a better team right now.  We should win about 55 games.  We could finish 2nd in the East.   We could win as many as two playoff series this year.

A full-strength Philly team is probably closer to a .500 win borderline playoff team than it is a league bottomfeeder - they are 7-7 in games Embiid has scored 20 or more (which is an encouraging sign of what's to come when the minutes restriction lifts for the future superstar).   They are 4-3 in games Noel has received 10 minutes or more (he's been injured for most of the year and has 25 minutes in his last two games - the success speaks to the possibility of him fitting in there long-term as an elite backup big man)... and of course they have still not suited up their other potential franchise player, Ben Simmons.   Despite this, Philly at max strength is still very unlikely to be anywhere near as good as Boston is right now for at least a couple years.

That said, fan approval for the two teams has to be about even right now.  I mean, we LOVE Thomas, but I'm pretty sure Philly fans are already naming their children after Embiid.  And it's telling that in our very own Arena in Boston, chants of "TRUST THE PROCESS!!" drowned out our own fans.   I doubt there are many Philly fans that would swap places with us.   So in response to oldtype's earlier comment questioning if fans can enjoy watching a team that isn't a contender... the point is if don't care about being a contender right now and are measuring success by entertainment factor and enjoyment of watching non-contenders play, Philly fans and Boston fans are both pretty elated right now.

Do you have video audio of philly fans drowning out our fans? From what I read there were like 20 people and not how you are describing it at all

[knuckleballer]

Just thought I'd point out that the 76ers are 26th in the league in home attendance percentage record at 82.1%.  The Celtics are at 99.2%.  The 76ers are dead last on the road at 83.3%.  I'm not sure that's a sign of their fans being elated right now.

[Celtics18]

I find it interesting that in LarBrd's world the 76ers and Celtics are roughly equivalent in success over the past couple of years, using one metric: playoff series wins.

To be clear, my point is that if both teams are trying to become contenders, neither has yet succeeded.  I suspect Boston will keep making improvements.  A trade or big draft could vault them into contention.  We certainly hope that happens.  But having seen teams make rapid jumps from 20 wins to 60+, It's not out of the realm of possibility that teams like Philly and the Wolves become contenders before we do.

No doubt that Boston is a better team right now.  We should win about 55 games.  We could finish 2nd in the East.   We could win as many as two playoff series this year.

A full-strength Philly team is probably closer to a .500 win borderline playoff team than it is a league bottomfeeder - they are 7-7 in games Embiid has scored 20 or more (which is an encouraging sign of what's to come when the minutes restriction lifts for the future superstar).   They are 4-3 in games Noel has received 10 minutes or more (he's been injured for most of the year and has 25 minutes in his last two games - the success speaks to the possibility of him fitting in there long-term as an elite backup big man)... and of course they have still not suited up their other potential franchise player, Ben Simmons.   Despite this, Philly at max strength is still very unlikely to be anywhere near as good as Boston is right now for at least a couple years.

That said, fan approval for the two teams has to be about even right now.  I mean, we LOVE Thomas, but I'm pretty sure Philly fans are already naming their children after Embiid.  And it's telling that in our very own Arena in Boston, chants of "TRUST THE PROCESS!!" drowned out our own fans.   I doubt there are many Philly fans that would swap places with us.   So in response to oldtype's earlier comment questioning if fans can enjoy watching a team that isn't a contender... the point is if don't care about being a contender right now and are measuring success by entertainment factor and enjoyment of watching non-contenders play, Philly fans and Boston fans are both pretty elated right now.

Personally I enjoy watching a team that is good.  The Celtics team we have now isn't Cavs or Warriors good, but they are definitely in the top tier of NBA teams.

Obviously, Philly is in the bottom tier of the bottom tier.  If you, or a bunch of Philly fans, derive enjoyment from that, well, that's great for you.

It's also great for Philly ownership and management who can simply sell "the future" and "the process" limitlessly.  The Sixers are bound to become at least as good as the Celtics are now someday.  Whether or not they ever reach true contender status is very much an uncertainty.

[Ilikesports17]

I find it interesting that in LarBrd's world the 76ers and Celtics are roughly equivalent in success over the past couple of years, using one metric: playoff series wins.

To be clear, my point is that if both teams are trying to become contenders, neither has yet succeeded.  I suspect Boston will keep making improvements.  A trade or big draft could vault them into contention.  We certainly hope that happens.  But having seen teams make rapid jumps from 20 wins to 60+, It's not out of the realm of possibility that teams like Philly and the Wolves become contenders before we do.

No doubt that Boston is a better team right now.  We should win about 55 games.  We could finish 2nd in the East.   We could win as many as two playoff series this year.

A full-strength Philly team is probably closer to a .500 win borderline playoff team than it is a league bottomfeeder - they are 7-7 in games Embiid has scored 20 or more (which is an encouraging sign of what's to come when the minutes restriction lifts for the future superstar).   They are 4-3 in games Noel has received 10 minutes or more (he's been injured for most of the year and has 25 minutes in his last two games - the success speaks to the possibility of him fitting in there long-term as an elite backup big man)... and of course they have still not suited up their other potential franchise player, Ben Simmons.   Despite this, Philly at max strength is still very unlikely to be anywhere near as good as Boston is right now for at least a couple years.

That said, fan approval for the two teams has to be about even right now.  I mean, we LOVE Thomas, but I'm pretty sure Philly fans are already naming their children after Embiid.  And it's telling that in our very own Arena in Boston, chants of "TRUST THE PROCESS!!" drowned out our own fans.   I doubt there are many Philly fans that would swap places with us.   So in response to oldtype's earlier comment questioning if fans can enjoy watching a team that isn't a contender... the point is if don't care about being a contender right now and are measuring success by entertainment factor and enjoyment of watching non-contenders play, Philly fans and Boston fans are both pretty elated right now.

Its tough to quantify fan value however, Boston is currently 12th in the NBA filling 99.2% of their seats with the 8th highest average ticket prices.

The Sixers are 26th in the NBA, filling 82.1% of their seats with the 24th highest average ticket values.

These numbers could be a bit off because Im using last years picket prices with this years attendance.

I know Celtics tickets increased in cost this year. I dont know if Philly's did. I do know that Philly hasnt raised their ticket prices at any point in the past decade.

The Celtics fans have had and continue to have greater entertainment value than the Sixers. You can make pointless claims like saying the Sixers are "lit" but if they were that "lit" theyd be buying tickets and showing up to games.

[Ilikesports17]

Just thought I'd point out that the 76ers are 26th in the league in home attendance percentage record at 82.1%.  The Celtics are at 99.2%.  The 76ers are dead last on the road at 83.3%.  I'm not sure that's a sign of their fans being elated right now.

TP for beating me to it on the numbers.