Windhorst reporting Milsap is Available

[BitterJim]

Anyone remember when the Suns had to accept a trash return for Dragic, who not only was expiring, but trashed the Suns on his way out? Or when they couldn't get a lottery pick in return for an extremely unhappy Markieff Morris? Me either.

People are absolutely fooling themselves if they think a considerably better player in Millsap would be traded for "maybe" the Memphis pick or Zeller, Jerebko, and a second, or any other similar garbage offer.

Time and time again, people swear "nah, teams have no leverage with these guys," but then the market dictates otherwise. I also remember when there was "no way" the Wolves could get Wiggins for Love.

There's a big difference between "This is the most I would give up" and "This is a deal that the other team would definitely accept".  The Knicks would wan a king's ransom for Melo, but that doesn't mean we all need to be willing to give up Brown and both Nets' picks for him

Just because Atlanta wouldn't trade Millsap for a package like the one you listed doesn't mean that we have to be willing to give up more for him - it just means that we have to be fine with not getting him if we don't (and I think most people here are okay with not trading for him)

[Ilikesports17]

Anyone remember when the Suns had to accept a trash return for Dragic, who not only was expiring, but trashed the Suns on his way out? Or when they couldn't get a lottery pick in return for an extremely unhappy Markieff Morris? Me either.

People are absolutely fooling themselves if they think a considerably better player in Millsap would be traded for "maybe" the Memphis pick or Zeller, Jerebko, and a second, or any other similar garbage offer.

Time and time again, people swear "nah, teams have no leverage with these guys," but then the market dictates otherwise. I also remember when there was "no way" the Wolves could get Wiggins for Love.

There's a big difference between "This is the most I would give up" and "This is a deal that the other team would definitely accept".  The Knicks would wan a king's ransom for Melo, but that doesn't mean we all need to be willing to give up Brown and both Nets' picks for him

Just because Atlanta wouldn't trade Millsap for a package like the one you listed doesn't mean that we have to be willing to give up more for him - it just means that we have to be fine with not getting him if we don't (and I think most people here are okay with not trading for him)

truth. TP.

Also with the Love for Wiggins stuff, I think Minny probably couldnt have gotten Wiggins like return untill Lebron inserted himself as GM and said go get Kevin Love I dont care about rookies. It returned the leverage to Minny.

[BitterJim]

Korver and Thabo are also available per the same report. I would be really intrigued by Korver. The spacing alone he would provide would do wonders for our offense, especially as teams will look to trap Thomas in the playoffs.

Korver would also be a rental but I'd love to see what he could do in Brad's system.

I wouldn't want him if he had a long term deal (he'll turn 36 this season!), but I'd love to see what Brad could do with him (and maybe resign him for next year)

[mef730]

Anyone remember when the Suns had to accept a trash return for Dragic, who not only was expiring, but trashed the Suns on his way out? Or when they couldn't get a lottery pick in return for an extremely unhappy Markieff Morris? Me either.

People are absolutely fooling themselves if they think a considerably better player in Millsap would be traded for "maybe" the Memphis pick or Zeller, Jerebko, and a second, or any other similar garbage offer.

Time and time again, people swear "nah, teams have no leverage with these guys," but then the market dictates otherwise. I also remember when there was "no way" the Wolves could get Wiggins for Love.

There's a big difference between "This is the most I would give up" and "This is a deal that the other team would definitely accept".  The Knicks would wan a king's ransom for Melo, but that doesn't mean we all need to be willing to give up Brown and both Nets' picks for him

Just because Atlanta wouldn't trade Millsap for a package like the one you listed doesn't mean that we have to be willing to give up more for him - it just means that we have to be fine with not getting him if we don't (and I think most people here are okay with not trading for him)

Bingo, and a TP to you. This is what I refer to as the "Isaiah conundrum," or a problem with the bid-ask spread. We've always had conversations about trading IT4, but what he brings to our team is entirely different (and a higher value than) what he would bring to any other team. Thus, nobody is going to pay what we think he is worth.

Mike

[Endless Paradise]

The Suns got two distant firsts from Miami for Dragic.  One is top 7 protected next year and unprotected in 2019.  The other is unprotected in 2021.  It was a decent get, all things considered, but getting picks from a probably good team 3-4 and 6 years after the trade is far from spectacular.

I'm willing to entertain this take as long as you're telling me that this is also the take you had on the KG/Pierce trade as it pertained to the future picks.

Dragic also had an easier salary to trade for, $7.5 million instead of $20 million, which was 12% of the cap instead of 21%.  If Atlanta wants expiring contracts (my gut says they do beyond guys on rookie deals), it's difficult to get to that salary amount.

This is an entirely fair point.

There's a big difference between "This is the most I would give up" and "This is a deal that the other team would definitely accept".  The Knicks would wan a king's ransom for Melo, but that doesn't mean we all need to be willing to give up Brown and both Nets' picks for him

Just because Atlanta wouldn't trade Millsap for a package like the one you listed doesn't mean that we have to be willing to give up more for him - it just means that we have to be fine with not getting him if we don't (and I think most people here are okay with not trading for him)

Yes, there is a difference in those two prospectives - but these proposals almost always come from an air of "this is what the team should expect in return for this guy."

Also with the Love for Wiggins stuff, I think Minny probably couldnt have gotten Wiggins like return untill Lebron inserted himself as GM and said go get Kevin Love I dont care about rookies. It returned the leverage to Minny.

The leverage never left Minnesota's hands, it just changed Cleveland's willingness to do a deal. Minnesota was realistically never in a position where they HAD to accept Cleveland's non-Wiggins offer; they were dealing with other teams that could've offered something better. Cleveland throwing in Wiggins is what won them the bidding war.

[Ilikesports17]

It never really left Minnesota's hand, sure. But Cleveland was in a unique spot of their GM not really having the option of not getting the player, thus they had 0 leverage. That situation was fairly unique.

I dont see a team out there that MUST acquire Paul Millsap.

Also, the Nets picks were a little different because they were all unprotected and the draft pick haul was much greater.

We got 3 firsts and a swap, they got 2 firsts.

[Vermont Green]

I  tried to think of what teams would be interested in Millsap.  To me it needs to be a team that has a need at PF and also where adding Millsap would make a meaningful change in the standings to a point where it is worth the rental.

In the east, I only see Toronto (and of course Boston).  Charlotte and Knicks maybe.  In the west, Houston, Thunder, Clippers (to replace Griffin) and Sacramento.

That is not a lot of teams and many of them would not be able to put together packages to make it worth it for Atlanta.

I don't know how good a deal it will take.  Probably more than I will want the Celtics to give up.  SAC could be a wild card here.  How about a deal around Rudy Gay and a future pick protected for Millsap?  I think the deal makes SAC better this year, possibly good enough to make the playoffs and ATL gets a couple of years to experiment with Gay plus a future pick.

[Endless Paradise]

It never really left Minnesota's hand, sure. But Cleveland was in a unique spot of their GM not really having the option of not getting the player, thus they had 0 leverage. That situation was fairly unique.

I dont see a team out there that MUST acquire Paul Millsap.

No, but there's probably about a dozen teams in the league whose profile would be seriously improved by acquiring Millsap in exchange for what they'd have to give up, including the Thunder, the Nuggets, the Raptors, the Wizards, the Rockets, the Hornets, the Pelicans, and so on and so forth.

I include the Celtics in that list, but as I said, I don't even think the Celtics should go after him because I'm not a believer in the Millsap/Horford frontcourt. But the team would definitely be better. I just don't think it addresses the rebounding issues sufficiently enough.

But Millsap is a seriously good player. And Atlanta will get good offers for him, as every team does when they're trading good players for reasons other than salary dumping purposes.

[oldtype]

Unless somebody can figure out a way to match salary without sending any of Amir, Jerebko, or Zeller the other way, this is just impossible.  We forfeit any chance of adding another star through free agency and Ainge will not do that.

[Moranis]

Unless somebody can figure out a way to match salary without sending any of Amir, Jerebko, or Zeller the other way, this is just impossible.  We forfeit any chance of adding another star through free agency and Ainge will not do that.

Millsap is at worst the 3rd best free agent available this summer (Griffin and Hayward are really the only 2 guys even in Millsap's league).  If you trade for him, you have a big advantage in obtaining him.  Thus it is a free agent move before free agency.

[PaulAllen]

Windhorst also broke the news that Wendys will be offering a double cheeseburger to their dollar menu

[oldtype]

Unless somebody can figure out a way to match salary without sending any of Amir, Jerebko, or Zeller the other way, this is just impossible.  We forfeit any chance of adding another star through free agency and Ainge will not do that.

Millsap is at worst the 3rd best free agent available this summer (Griffin and Hayward are really the only 2 guys even in Millsap's league).  If you trade for him, you have a big advantage in obtaining him.  Thus it is a free agent move before free agency.

If we trade for Milsap now we can't add a free agent and our roster is pretty much capped out. 

If we sign Milsap as a free agent, we can still add a second star later by trade.

The sequencing matters.

[kozlodoev]

Unless somebody can figure out a way to match salary without sending any of Amir, Jerebko, or Zeller the other way, this is just impossible.  We forfeit any chance of adding another star through free agency and Ainge will not do that.

Millsap is at worst the 3rd best free agent available this summer (Griffin and Hayward are really the only 2 guys even in Millsap's league).  If you trade for him, you have a big advantage in obtaining him.  Thus it is a free agent move before free agency.

If we trade for Milsap now we can't add a free agent and our roster is pretty much capped out. 

If we sign Milsap as a free agent, we can still add a second star later by trade.

The sequencing matters.

It does? What is stopping us to trade for Milsap and add a second star later by trade?

[oldtype]

Unless somebody can figure out a way to match salary without sending any of Amir, Jerebko, or Zeller the other way, this is just impossible.  We forfeit any chance of adding another star through free agency and Ainge will not do that.

Millsap is at worst the 3rd best free agent available this summer (Griffin and Hayward are really the only 2 guys even in Millsap's league).  If you trade for him, you have a big advantage in obtaining him.  Thus it is a free agent move before free agency.

If we trade for Milsap now we can't add a free agent and our roster is pretty much capped out. 

If we sign Milsap as a free agent, we can still add a second star later by trade.

The sequencing matters.

It does? What is stopping us to trade for Milsap and add a second star later by trade?

If both acquisitions are by trade it would still be possible.  Closes off free agency as an avenue though.

[saltlover]

Unless somebody can figure out a way to match salary without sending any of Amir, Jerebko, or Zeller the other way, this is just impossible.  We forfeit any chance of adding another star through free agency and Ainge will not do that.

Millsap is at worst the 3rd best free agent available this summer (Griffin and Hayward are really the only 2 guys even in Millsap's league).  If you trade for him, you have a big advantage in obtaining him.  Thus it is a free agent move before free agency.

If we trade for Milsap now we can't add a free agent and our roster is pretty much capped out. 

If we sign Milsap as a free agent, we can still add a second star later by trade.

The sequencing matters.

I don't think you're correct on this.  Millsap will not cost our best trade assets to acquire.  And the expiring contracts we'd need to use to trade for a second star will be gone whether we trade for Millsap or sign him, requiring a core player or two to be sent in the second trade.

If you want two stars and to keep our other core players, the best way to get them is to trade for both THIS season. But having two more stars will be prohibitively expensive, so there's no point.