Fultz vs Ball - who is the best pg of the 2017 draft?

[Who]

Fultz doesn't appear to play a lot of defense, to me.  Stylistically he looks most like Deangelo Russell.  I guess I'm not sure I see the consensus #1 top pick others do.  But I've only seen highlight reels, so I don't put too much stock in my own impression.

More explosive quickness than D'Angelo Russell. Better able to get into the lane in the half court than Russell can.

Reminds me more of James Harden. Smaller but good size for PG. Similar style of play.

[oldtype]

Fultz looks like your standard "good at everything" can't-miss prospect.  He's a really safe pick.

Ball is a complete Unicorn.  There's basically never been anyone with his combination of skills in the league. He could be amazing but he could also fail miserably.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

There are definitely scenarios where Smith or Ntilikina both turn into better point guards than Fultz or Ball.

But in my arm chair scout opinion, Fultz is the best prospect.

[rickyfan3.0...]

I don't think Ball is that impressive. Maybe it was the hype but nothing jumps out at me other than flash... which I HATE.

[oldtype]

I don't think Ball is that impressive. Maybe it was the hype but nothing jumps out at me other than flash... which I HATE.

Nothing jumps out for you from a guy with Ben Simmons passing and Kyle Korver shooting? He's the polar opposite of a "nothing jumps out" prospect: he's a guy that's super-elite in certain areas but not impressive in other areas.

[Ilikesports17]

I don't think Ball is that impressive. Maybe it was the hype but nothing jumps out at me other than flash... which I HATE.

Nothing jumps out for you from a guy with Ben Simmons passing and Kyle Korver shooting? He's the polar opposite of a "nothing jumps out" prospect: he's a guy that's super-elite in certain areas but not impressive in other areas.

I think you overrate his shooting pretty substantially.

Hes a good shooter with good range and a terrific passer with nice size.

from what Ive seen Im impressed. He could be a terrific player for sure.

[footey]

Ball is intriguing because he plays a style similar to Jason Kidd, and he kind of looks like him, which reinforces the perception that he is destined to be the next Jason Kidd.

If he looked nothing like Kidd, I think the enthusiasm for him would be somewhat tempered.

He is fun to watch, but I think it is way too premature to expect him to be the next Kidd.

My hesitation about Fultz is that the buzz on him reminds me of Russell, taken by the Lakers at 2 a couple of drafts ago.  He physically resembles him a little bit, which reinforces that comparison. And both are so called late bloomers.  Given the disappointing play of Russell in the NBA thus far, I worry that Fultz will also disappoint.

Completely irrational thought process, but there you have it!

[tazzmaniac]

Everyone seems to ignore or write off Fox.  His one significant weakness, albeit glaring, is his 3pt shooting.  If you put that to the side, he's very good or better in athleticism, defense, shot creation, finishing at the rim, passing.  He's super quick and an excellent ball handler.  I haven't seen anyone able to keep him from driving the lane.  UCLA beat Kentucky but Fox arguably outplayed Ball.  Fox actually defended Ball whereas Ball did not defend Fox that much.     

If anyone hasn't seen it, here's a link to the Kentucky/North Carolina game which is the best  college game played so far.  Good viewing for Fox overall, Monk's 47 point outburst and Bam battling the Carolina bigs. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkMSCkbVA8w

[PhoSita]

Fultz doesn't appear to play a lot of defense, to me.  Stylistically he looks most like Deangelo Russell.  I guess I'm not sure I see the consensus #1 top pick others do.  But I've only seen highlight reels, so I don't put too much stock in my own impression.

As for Lonzo Ball, I'm even less impressed by what I've seen.  He has a weird jumpshot motion reminiscent of Kevin Martin (who was, to be fair, an excellent shooter).  He's very upright generally.  I'm not sure how good he is defensively.  He doesn't appear like a super physical player.

I guess what I want in a potential top 3 pick is somebody with potentially game changing size or athleticism.  E.g. Embiid, Porzingis, Towns, Wiggins, Giannis, etc.

I'm pretty confident both players are going to be better than Wiggins. Wiggins has been a disappointment to be honest. He's just a jumpshooter who doesn't play great D. Maybe he will one day be an elite defender.

Also, Fultz is light years more athletic than Russel. Not trying to be mean, but you are usually very conservative with prospects. You were negative on Brown last year as well and I think Brown has proven to show high upside thus far.

You're saying Ball isn't a great scorer? Yeah we all know that. His comp is Jason Kidd. I would refer you to look at Kidd's stats. He wasn't a great scorer. I think you are missing the point on Ball. You can't give him space to shoot because he is an elite shooter thus far in college. And he has the best vision I've seen in a while. Kind of an amazing winning player imo. Really does remind me of Kidd.

What I'm saying is that neither of those guys really blows me away with their sheer physical size or talent.  They both look like exciting, skilled players.  I can easily see how they will make an impact in a league that rewards pick and roll ballhandlers with decent size who can shoot, pass, and get to the rim.

That said, neither looks like a franchise altering prospect to me, certainly not to a franchise that already has an elite point guard.

But again, I'm not deep into the analysis of this draft, so I'm totally open to the notion that I'm 100% wrong.

Certainly Harden, Curry, and Lillard were franchise altering talents with similar skillsets to those guys.  You could name others.  I'm not sure I see the Kidd comparison, but I take your point.

Still, I would really prefer that the best talent available for the Celts would end up being a freak of nature.  They're really lacking that kind of presence.  We have lots of smaller guys.

Nonetheless, if a scoring guard with great agility and scoring instincts is the pick, I'll be OK with that.  We can't ride IT forever, AB might be gone in two years, and none of the other young guards looks like a star in the making.

[PhoSita]

I don't think Ball is that impressive. Maybe it was the hype but nothing jumps out at me other than flash... which I HATE.

Yeah, I can immediately see why people find him fun to watch, but it's not obvious to me that he's a star at the next level. 

[tankcity!]

Fultz doesn't appear to play a lot of defense, to me.  Stylistically he looks most like Deangelo Russell.  I guess I'm not sure I see the consensus #1 top pick others do.  But I've only seen highlight reels, so I don't put too much stock in my own impression.

As for Lonzo Ball, I'm even less impressed by what I've seen.  He has a weird jumpshot motion reminiscent of Kevin Martin (who was, to be fair, an excellent shooter).  He's very upright generally.  I'm not sure how good he is defensively.  He doesn't appear like a super physical player.

I guess what I want in a potential top 3 pick is somebody with potentially game changing size or athleticism.  E.g. Embiid, Porzingis, Towns, Wiggins, Giannis, etc.

I'm pretty confident both players are going to be better than Wiggins. Wiggins has been a disappointment to be honest. He's just a jumpshooter who doesn't play great D. Maybe he will one day be an elite defender.

Also, Fultz is light years more athletic than Russel. Not trying to be mean, but you are usually very conservative with prospects. You were negative on Brown last year as well and I think Brown has proven to show high upside thus far.

You're saying Ball isn't a great scorer? Yeah we all know that. His comp is Jason Kidd. I would refer you to look at Kidd's stats. He wasn't a great scorer. I think you are missing the point on Ball. You can't give him space to shoot because he is an elite shooter thus far in college. And he has the best vision I've seen in a while. Kind of an amazing winning player imo. Really does remind me of Kidd.

What I'm saying is that neither of those guys really blows me away with their sheer physical size or talent.  They both look like exciting, skilled players.  I can easily see how they will make an impact in a league that rewards pick and roll ballhandlers with decent size who can shoot, pass, and get to the rim.

That said, neither looks like a franchise altering prospect to me, certainly not to a franchise that already has an elite point guard.

But again, I'm not deep into the analysis of this draft, so I'm totally open to the notion that I'm 100% wrong.

Certainly Harden, Curry, and Lillard were franchise altering talents with similar skillsets to those guys.  You could name others.  I'm not sure I see the Kidd comparison, but I take your point.

Still, I would really prefer that the best talent available for the Celts would end up being a freak of nature.  They're really lacking that kind of presence.  We have lots of smaller guys.

Nonetheless, if a scoring guard with great agility and scoring instincts is the pick, I'll be OK with that.  We can't ride IT forever, AB might be gone in two years, and none of the other young guards looks like a star in the making.

Makes sense. I understand what you're saying.

[Tr1boy]

Ball is intriguing because he plays a style similar to Jason Kidd, and he kind of looks like him, which reinforces the perception that he is destined to be the next Jason Kidd.

If he looked nothing like Kidd, I think the enthusiasm for him would be somewhat tempered.

He is fun to watch, but I think it is way too premature to expect him to be the next Kidd.

My hesitation about Fultz is that the buzz on him reminds me of Russell, taken by the Lakers at 2 a couple of drafts ago.  He physically resembles him a little bit, which reinforces that comparison. And both are so called late bloomers.  Given the disappointing play of Russell in the NBA thus far, I worry that Fultz will also disappoint.

Completely irrational thought process, but there you have it!

Nobody thought kidd would become that good either

But he was good and for a long time

Very smart player. 

Ball is also smart. He can control a game without scoring much. But unlike Rondo can shoot. So you cant lay off of him

[Denis998]

Question of the best should revolve around DSJR and Fultz

[hwangjini_1]

Question of the best should revolve around DSJR and Fultz

and what, may i ask, is a "dsjr"? 

[CelticGuardian]

Fultz doesn't appear to play a lot of defense, to me.  Stylistically he looks most like Deangelo Russell.  I guess I'm not sure I see the consensus #1 top pick others do.  But I've only seen highlight reels, so I don't put too much stock in my own impression.

As for Lonzo Ball, I'm even less impressed by what I've seen.  He has a weird jumpshot motion reminiscent of Kevin Martin (who was, to be fair, an excellent shooter).  He's very upright generally.  I'm not sure how good he is defensively.  He doesn't appear like a super physical player.

I guess what I want in a potential top 3 pick is somebody with potentially game changing size or athleticism.  E.g. Embiid, Porzingis, Towns, Wiggins, Giannis, etc.

I'm pretty confident both players are going to be better than Wiggins. Wiggins has been a disappointment to be honest. He's just a jumpshooter who doesn't play great D. Maybe he will one day be an elite defender.

Also, Fultz is light years more athletic than Russel. Not trying to be mean, but you are usually very conservative with prospects. You were negative on Brown last year as well and I think Brown has proven to show high upside thus far.

You're saying Ball isn't a great scorer? Yeah we all know that. His comp is Jason Kidd. I would refer you to look at Kidd's stats. He wasn't a great scorer. I think you are missing the point on Ball. You can't give him space to shoot because he is an elite shooter thus far in college. And he has the best vision I've seen in a while. Kind of an amazing winning player imo. Really does remind me of Kidd.

I think Ball can turn it up when motivated tho, he came out p---ed after his team got their first loss, I like seeing that.

D'Angelo was never as clever of a scorer as Fultz, Russell never even grazed the rim in college...  he was probably a more clever passer but it seems like a lot of what he excelled that in College is not effective against the big boys. He's essentially just a chucker now..

I love his intangibles too. I would recommend this article. It's a great read on Ball when he was in high school.

https://theringer.com/steph-curry-ball-brothers-chino-hills-c4a7719b22e9#.sxb4o6p5o

Hmm... Not a bad read. So according to the article the Ball clan are accustomed to playing the game in a certain way, in transition and stretching the defense. I'm not too worried about him gettig his shot off, he doesn't look for contested shots like say, Malik Monk... But I don't know how I feel about LaVar's philosophy.. At some point he had to teach Lonzo how to run half court offense. He might have a lot to learn in his first years in the league but hopefully not Jaylen level raw.