Author Topic: $26 million man  (Read 23739 times)

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Re: $26 million man
« Reply #120 on: December 19, 2016, 02:55:03 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I suppose people are reacting to Horford the same as if they had been promised a car for Christmas and walked into the driveway expecting a Tesla, and what they see sitting there instead is a fully loaded Honda Accord. 

An excellent, well-built, reliable car that can do most anything you want from a car, including driving fast and overtaking other cars on the highway.  It's just not exactly a sports car or a high end luxury vehicle, and it won't turn any heads.  It'll just do everything you need it to, and it'll do it really well (except transporting furniture, that is).
That may be the position of some, but not me.  I knew exactly what Horford was and he is performing exactly like I expected him to perform.  I just don't think his signing made sense for Boston as was constructed at the time he signed.  If Boston had actually landed Durant, then you wouldn't see me in this thread (and other threads) complaining about Horford, because he is the exact type of player you want around Durant.  But Boston didn't land Durant so I would have rather seen the Horford money used elsewhere on multiple players and with shorter contracts.

Again my question is, do you think the Celts have a better or worse chance of landing that big time free agent or trade target with Horford on board or not?

Do you think the Celts would be in a better position to sign or trade for the next big fish if they had divided that $25-30 million a year between 3 lesser players?
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
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Re: $26 million man
« Reply #121 on: December 19, 2016, 02:56:35 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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You're not paying a Tesla price for an Accord, though, it's just that some people are paying Accord price for a Tesla.

Exactly, and on top of that there are only a handful of Teslas in the whole world, in this example, and not many more Accords.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: $26 million man
« Reply #122 on: December 19, 2016, 03:05:05 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I suppose people are reacting to Horford the same as if they had been promised a car for Christmas and walked into the driveway expecting a Tesla, and what they see sitting there instead is a fully loaded Honda Accord. 

An excellent, well-built, reliable car that can do most anything you want from a car, including driving fast and overtaking other cars on the highway.  It's just not exactly a sports car or a high end luxury vehicle, and it won't turn any heads.  It'll just do everything you need it to, and it'll do it really well (except transporting furniture, that is).
That may be the position of some, but not me.  I knew exactly what Horford was and he is performing exactly like I expected him to perform.  I just don't think his signing made sense for Boston as was constructed at the time he signed.  If Boston had actually landed Durant, then you wouldn't see me in this thread (and other threads) complaining about Horford, because he is the exact type of player you want around Durant.  But Boston didn't land Durant so I would have rather seen the Horford money used elsewhere on multiple players and with shorter contracts.

Again my question is, do you think the Celts have a better or worse chance of landing that big time free agent or trade target with Horford on board or not?

Do you think the Celts would be in a better position to sign or trade for the next big fish if they had divided that $25-30 million a year between 3 lesser players?
First one would depend on what Boston did with the money, how Boston performed, etc.  For example, if Boston spent no long term dollars and could sign 2 max free agents this summer (like last summer) then that might make it easier to attract players who may want to play together (say Gordon Hayward and Blake Griffin want to play together for example). 

Second one, trading for a player is easier when you have more options to trade and have a deeper team remaining.  As for signing a free agent with 3 lesser players instead of Horford, again that would depend on the players and what the team does.  What if the current team continues to plod along and loses in the 1st round, but a team with Biyombo, Henderson, and Speights wins 55 games and makes the ECF?  Which team would a max free agent rather play on the team that regressed even though it had bigger names or the team in the ECF?

And the thing about Al Horford is he isn't exactly a guy that everyone is clamoring to play with.  He is a mid-tier "star" at best.  Same as Thomas.  It isn't like Boston signed Kevin Durant.  Horford is a very good player, but he isn't a difference maker and he is old.  Other players know this and his contract makes it very difficult for Boston to do multiple major moves. 
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Re: $26 million man
« Reply #123 on: December 19, 2016, 03:20:20 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I think you're underrating how much other players respect Al Horford.

As for the Henderson / Biyombo / Speights counter-factual, I would seriously doubt the idea that the team would win 55 games in that situation.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: $26 million man
« Reply #124 on: December 19, 2016, 03:22:05 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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I know Horford may not have the star attraction that Durant has, but he has to have more attraction than Biyumbo, Henderson, and Speights.

Re: $26 million man
« Reply #125 on: December 19, 2016, 03:45:13 PM »

Offline GratefulCs

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I suppose people are reacting to Horford the same as if they had been promised a car for Christmas and walked into the driveway expecting a Tesla, and what they see sitting there instead is a fully loaded Honda Accord. 

An excellent, well-built, reliable car that can do most anything you want from a car, including driving fast and overtaking other cars on the highway.  It's just not exactly a sports car or a high end luxury vehicle, and it won't turn any heads.  It'll just do everything you need it to, and it'll do it really well (except transporting furniture, that is).
That may be the position of some, but not me.  I knew exactly what Horford was and he is performing exactly like I expected him to perform.  I just don't think his signing made sense for Boston as was constructed at the time he signed.  If Boston had actually landed Durant, then you wouldn't see me in this thread (and other threads) complaining about Horford, because he is the exact type of player you want around Durant.  But Boston didn't land Durant so I would have rather seen the Horford money used elsewhere on multiple players and with shorter contracts.

Again my question is, do you think the Celts have a better or worse chance of landing that big time free agent or trade target with Horford on board or not?

Do you think the Celts would be in a better position to sign or trade for the next big fish if they had divided that $25-30 million a year between 3 lesser players?
First one would depend on what Boston did with the money, how Boston performed, etc.  For example, if Boston spent no long term dollars and could sign 2 max free agents this summer (like last summer) then that might make it easier to attract players who may want to play together (say Gordon Hayward and Blake Griffin want to play together for example). 

Second one, trading for a player is easier when you have more options to trade and have a deeper team remaining.  As for signing a free agent with 3 lesser players instead of Horford, again that would depend on the players and what the team does.  What if the current team continues to plod along and loses in the 1st round, but a team with Biyombo, Henderson, and Speights wins 55 games and makes the ECF?  Which team would a max free agent rather play on the team that regressed even though it had bigger names or the team in the ECF?

And the thing about Al Horford is he isn't exactly a guy that everyone is clamoring to play with.  He is a mid-tier "star" at best.  Same as Thomas.  It isn't like Boston signed Kevin Durant.  Horford is a very good player, but he isn't a difference maker and he is old.  Other players know this and his contract makes it very difficult for Boston to do multiple major moves.
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Re: $26 million man
« Reply #126 on: December 19, 2016, 03:45:49 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I think you're underrating how much other players respect Al Horford.

As for the Henderson / Biyombo / Speights counter-factual, I would seriously doubt the idea that the team would win 55 games in that situation.
Boston won 48 games last year with a lesser rotation than that (with the other main players back). 
2025 Historical Draft - Cleveland Cavaliers - 1st pick

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Re: $26 million man
« Reply #127 on: December 19, 2016, 03:46:13 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I suppose people are reacting to Horford the same as if they had been promised a car for Christmas and walked into the driveway expecting a Tesla, and what they see sitting there instead is a fully loaded Honda Accord. 

An excellent, well-built, reliable car that can do most anything you want from a car, including driving fast and overtaking other cars on the highway.  It's just not exactly a sports car or a high end luxury vehicle, and it won't turn any heads.  It'll just do everything you need it to, and it'll do it really well (except transporting furniture, that is).
That may be the position of some, but not me.  I knew exactly what Horford was and he is performing exactly like I expected him to perform.  I just don't think his signing made sense for Boston as was constructed at the time he signed.  If Boston had actually landed Durant, then you wouldn't see me in this thread (and other threads) complaining about Horford, because he is the exact type of player you want around Durant.  But Boston didn't land Durant so I would have rather seen the Horford money used elsewhere on multiple players and with shorter contracts.

Again my question is, do you think the Celts have a better or worse chance of landing that big time free agent or trade target with Horford on board or not?

Do you think the Celts would be in a better position to sign or trade for the next big fish if they had divided that $25-30 million a year between 3 lesser players?
First one would depend on what Boston did with the money, how Boston performed, etc.  For example, if Boston spent no long term dollars and could sign 2 max free agents this summer (like last summer) then that might make it easier to attract players who may want to play together (say Gordon Hayward and Blake Griffin want to play together for example). 

Second one, trading for a player is easier when you have more options to trade and have a deeper team remaining.  As for signing a free agent with 3 lesser players instead of Horford, again that would depend on the players and what the team does.  What if the current team continues to plod along and loses in the 1st round, but a team with Biyombo, Henderson, and Speights wins 55 games and makes the ECF?  Which team would a max free agent rather play on the team that regressed even though it had bigger names or the team in the ECF?

And the thing about Al Horford is he isn't exactly a guy that everyone is clamoring to play with.  He is a mid-tier "star" at best.  Same as Thomas.  It isn't like Boston signed Kevin Durant.  Horford is a very good player, but he isn't a difference maker and he is old.  Other players know this and his contract makes it very difficult for Boston to do multiple major moves.
Bird

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Does the bird in hand make Boston a contender?  If not, then what is the point?
2025 Historical Draft - Cleveland Cavaliers - 1st pick

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Re: $26 million man
« Reply #128 on: December 19, 2016, 03:46:41 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I know Horford may not have the star attraction that Durant has, but he has to have more attraction than Biyumbo, Henderson, and Speights.
I didn't say he didn't. 
2025 Historical Draft - Cleveland Cavaliers - 1st pick

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Rotation - D. Daniels, Mitchell, G. Wallace, Melo, Noah
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Re: $26 million man
« Reply #129 on: December 19, 2016, 03:51:12 PM »

Offline mctyson

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I would be very glad to be proved wrong here and tonight Big Al had 11 in the 4th quarter!!!:-)))))))

Smitty77
1 good game every so often doesn't mean the signing was a good one.

True...it was a great signing.  There is no sane argument against it.

Re: $26 million man
« Reply #130 on: December 19, 2016, 04:08:06 PM »

Offline GratefulCs

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I suppose people are reacting to Horford the same as if they had been promised a car for Christmas and walked into the driveway expecting a Tesla, and what they see sitting there instead is a fully loaded Honda Accord. 

An excellent, well-built, reliable car that can do most anything you want from a car, including driving fast and overtaking other cars on the highway.  It's just not exactly a sports car or a high end luxury vehicle, and it won't turn any heads.  It'll just do everything you need it to, and it'll do it really well (except transporting furniture, that is).
That may be the position of some, but not me.  I knew exactly what Horford was and he is performing exactly like I expected him to perform.  I just don't think his signing made sense for Boston as was constructed at the time he signed.  If Boston had actually landed Durant, then you wouldn't see me in this thread (and other threads) complaining about Horford, because he is the exact type of player you want around Durant.  But Boston didn't land Durant so I would have rather seen the Horford money used elsewhere on multiple players and with shorter contracts.

Again my question is, do you think the Celts have a better or worse chance of landing that big time free agent or trade target with Horford on board or not?

Do you think the Celts would be in a better position to sign or trade for the next big fish if they had divided that $25-30 million a year between 3 lesser players?
First one would depend on what Boston did with the money, how Boston performed, etc.  For example, if Boston spent no long term dollars and could sign 2 max free agents this summer (like last summer) then that might make it easier to attract players who may want to play together (say Gordon Hayward and Blake Griffin want to play together for example). 

Second one, trading for a player is easier when you have more options to trade and have a deeper team remaining.  As for signing a free agent with 3 lesser players instead of Horford, again that would depend on the players and what the team does.  What if the current team continues to plod along and loses in the 1st round, but a team with Biyombo, Henderson, and Speights wins 55 games and makes the ECF?  Which team would a max free agent rather play on the team that regressed even though it had bigger names or the team in the ECF?

And the thing about Al Horford is he isn't exactly a guy that everyone is clamoring to play with.  He is a mid-tier "star" at best.  Same as Thomas.  It isn't like Boston signed Kevin Durant.  Horford is a very good player, but he isn't a difference maker and he is old.  Other players know this and his contract makes it very difficult for Boston to do multiple major moves.
Bird

In

The

Hand
Does the bird in hand make Boston a contender?  If not, then what is the point?
the point is that we are positioned for ANY type of situation

Star available through trade? We can make a legit offer and be contenders


In a couple years if we really can't make the leap, we have enough high picks to rebuild


I just don't get when people are upset with this team, currently. If in two years we don't have a clear direction (contender vs. serious rebuild) then i'd be worried

Right now we're looking for a home run. Might not come, but we're positioned well


Imagine if we traded for cousins. (Doesn't matter if you want him or not). We'd go from having a so-so front court to one of the best in the league BECAUSE we also signed horford

Love me some horford
I trust Danny Ainge

Re: $26 million man
« Reply #131 on: December 19, 2016, 05:16:27 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I think you're underrating how much other players respect Al Horford.

As for the Henderson / Biyombo / Speights counter-factual, I would seriously doubt the idea that the team would win 55 games in that situation.
Boston won 48 games last year with a lesser rotation than that (with the other main players back).

True, I just don't think that adding those guys would make that big a difference.  Some other teams in the East also got better, while a couple got worse.

If the Celts had let Turner & Sully go and signed those three guys, I tend to think they'd have remained about the same.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: $26 million man
« Reply #132 on: December 20, 2016, 08:45:26 AM »

Offline Moranis

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I think you're underrating how much other players respect Al Horford.

As for the Henderson / Biyombo / Speights counter-factual, I would seriously doubt the idea that the team would win 55 games in that situation.
Boston won 48 games last year with a lesser rotation than that (with the other main players back).

True, I just don't think that adding those guys would make that big a difference.  Some other teams in the East also got better, while a couple got worse.

If the Celts had let Turner & Sully go and signed those three guys, I tend to think they'd have remained about the same.
certainly possible, but right now Boston is projected about the same as well with Horford.  I know injuries have played a role early in the year (though with more depth maybe not as much effect), but none of the guys that got hurt are pictures of health throughout their careers except Thomas. 
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Re: $26 million man
« Reply #133 on: December 20, 2016, 09:57:18 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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I think you're underrating how much other players respect Al Horford.

As for the Henderson / Biyombo / Speights counter-factual, I would seriously doubt the idea that the team would win 55 games in that situation.
Judging by how it panned out with Durant -- apparently not enough.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: $26 million man
« Reply #134 on: December 20, 2016, 10:45:17 AM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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I think you're underrating how much other players respect Al Horford.

As for the Henderson / Biyombo / Speights counter-factual, I would seriously doubt the idea that the team would win 55 games in that situation.
Judging by how it panned out with Durant -- apparently not enough.

Yes, he does not respect Horford as much as the Curry-Thompson-Green trio that just won a championship and plays the most fun basketball since the showtime Lakers.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2016, 11:24:09 AM by DefenseWinsChamps »