Criticism of Horford over Missed Game?

[green_bballers13]

I made this point on another thread: does each individual game really matter all that much for the Celtics? Is it life or death to acquire the #2 vs #7 pick in the playoffs? I don't think it does. The Celtics probably aren't going to win the NBA championship, so I'm more concerned about developing young players then squeaking out 58 wins vs. 50 wins. Cleveland is the only contender in the East, so you're more than likely going to lose home court advantage in order to get to the NBA Finals.

Felger missed a day of work for his kid, and he makes a lot of money. How silly.

To answer your question, it absolutely does no questions asked. Take last season for example.

If the Celtics had just won one more game than they did, they would have had the third seed. They would have faced Charlotte, who they were 3-1 against in the regular season AND would have had homecourt advantage as opposed to Atlanta, who they were 1-3 against in the regular season and didn't have homecourt advantage. That could have led to a much different outcome than what actually happened. Maybe we not only beat Charlotte, but we beat Toronto too, which makes could have led to a different outcome with certain players i.e. Kevin Durant but of course that's all hypothetical. Point though is that ONE GAME can change everything.

Better yet, had the Celtics not gotten so careless against Brooklyn last season, that could have led to not only two more wins, but increased odds at getting Ben Simmons or getting a superstar for Ben Simmons.

Most importantly, the Horford signing clearly showed the Celtics want to win now, not later, so I don't think youth movement is the first priority to them.

Having said all of that, I don't fault Horford at all for staying with his wife and newborn child. A man should value his family over his job. The saddest part about all of this is that I don't think anyone who's upset would be nearly as mad if Horford hadn't missed all those games with that concussion. If he had been healthy leading up to that Heat game, no one would be upset with him.

The bolded is all conjecture. We have no idea what would have happened vs Charlotte, or Toronto. Atlanta was not an impressive team. If we couldn't beat them, why would we have defeated a Toronto team with Biyombo playing out of his mind?

My point is that the Celtics weren't put together to win the NBA championship last year, and the same applies this year, despite the Horford signing. We still need a player or two before homecourt vs Cleveland matters.

Also, I have no idea how to project the flight path of ping pong balls. I'm not a physicist. While probability counts for something, it really doesn't matter all that much, esp. when the #1 seed has such a low probability of hitting (25%). The key is that Brooklyn will prob. stink so badly that we have a decent chance of a top 5 pick. Other than that, I think we're throwing darts when we try to predict what pick we get.

Hence why I said it was all hypothetical. More importantly the hypothetical that I brought out wasn't the point. The point I was making was that I was answering your question. Does every individual game count in the regular season count? The answer is absolutely and last season is living proof of it. Everything could have been a whole lot different had the Celtics just had one more victory last season. No one knows for sure what would have happened but just one more win could have changed the entire course.

To respond to your objection to my hypothetical, Atlanta may not have been an impressive team but they matched up with the Celtics SUPER well. That's very well evidenced by the fact that we were 1-3 against them in the regular season as I brought up before and they had homecourt. Compared to Miami and Charlotte, who the Celtics were 6-1 against combined in the regular season.

Also, the reason why I believed Toronto was beatable was because they barely squeaked by Indiana and Miami. It took 7 games in each of those series and it also took extremely lucky shots for them to get by two teams that were not definitively better than the Celtics were. Also Biyombo only went crazy because of the circumstances. Valanciunas' injury gave him the extended minutes.

Also, the whole lottery odds thing doesn't matter. No one here knows what would have happened. If you want to be a pessimist about it, go ahead no one's stopping you. This all is what makes a hypothetical a hypothetical.  I think anyone who is anyone would have preferred Charlotte over Atlanta not to mention the homecourt advantage. Also I'm pretty sure we all would have preferred having higher odds in the lottery wouldn't you agree?

That all ties down to just answering your question earlier, which is yes. It's true the Celtics weren't equipped to win the championship last year or this year right now, but they could have been had things gone their way. Better yet, their equipped to make a move to better themselves now. You said you wanted to develop the young kids, which I don't think the Celtics primarily care about because the Horford signing was a win-now move.

I guess this is my major point of disagreement. I don't think they could have won the championship last year. In theory, anyone can. I just think they (and about 26 other teams) had a very small chance (less than 2%) of getting a ring. That's just a guess- I don't think there's a scientific way to absolutely capture their precise odds.

I understand if you're interested in the slow but steady improvement strategy (winning a playoff series vs Charlotte). That doesn't do all that much for me.

I'm not certain that makes me a pessimist. I love the direction that Danny and Brad are taking. I really like our young players, and I love the fact that we will have more top draft picks coming in soon.

[MJohnnyboy]

I made this point on another thread: does each individual game really matter all that much for the Celtics? Is it life or death to acquire the #2 vs #7 pick in the playoffs? I don't think it does. The Celtics probably aren't going to win the NBA championship, so I'm more concerned about developing young players then squeaking out 58 wins vs. 50 wins. Cleveland is the only contender in the East, so you're more than likely going to lose home court advantage in order to get to the NBA Finals.

Felger missed a day of work for his kid, and he makes a lot of money. How silly.

To answer your question, it absolutely does no questions asked. Take last season for example.

If the Celtics had just won one more game than they did, they would have had the third seed. They would have faced Charlotte, who they were 3-1 against in the regular season AND would have had homecourt advantage as opposed to Atlanta, who they were 1-3 against in the regular season and didn't have homecourt advantage. That could have led to a much different outcome than what actually happened. Maybe we not only beat Charlotte, but we beat Toronto too, which makes could have led to a different outcome with certain players i.e. Kevin Durant but of course that's all hypothetical. Point though is that ONE GAME can change everything.

Better yet, had the Celtics not gotten so careless against Brooklyn last season, that could have led to not only two more wins, but increased odds at getting Ben Simmons or getting a superstar for Ben Simmons.

Most importantly, the Horford signing clearly showed the Celtics want to win now, not later, so I don't think youth movement is the first priority to them.

Having said all of that, I don't fault Horford at all for staying with his wife and newborn child. A man should value his family over his job. The saddest part about all of this is that I don't think anyone who's upset would be nearly as mad if Horford hadn't missed all those games with that concussion. If he had been healthy leading up to that Heat game, no one would be upset with him.

The bolded is all conjecture. We have no idea what would have happened vs Charlotte, or Toronto. Atlanta was not an impressive team. If we couldn't beat them, why would we have defeated a Toronto team with Biyombo playing out of his mind?

My point is that the Celtics weren't put together to win the NBA championship last year, and the same applies this year, despite the Horford signing. We still need a player or two before homecourt vs Cleveland matters.

Also, I have no idea how to project the flight path of ping pong balls. I'm not a physicist. While probability counts for something, it really doesn't matter all that much, esp. when the #1 seed has such a low probability of hitting (25%). The key is that Brooklyn will prob. stink so badly that we have a decent chance of a top 5 pick. Other than that, I think we're throwing darts when we try to predict what pick we get.

Hence why I said it was all hypothetical. More importantly the hypothetical that I brought out wasn't the point. The point I was making was that I was answering your question. Does every individual game count in the regular season count? The answer is absolutely and last season is living proof of it. Everything could have been a whole lot different had the Celtics just had one more victory last season. No one knows for sure what would have happened but just one more win could have changed the entire course.

To respond to your objection to my hypothetical, Atlanta may not have been an impressive team but they matched up with the Celtics SUPER well. That's very well evidenced by the fact that we were 1-3 against them in the regular season as I brought up before and they had homecourt. Compared to Miami and Charlotte, who the Celtics were 6-1 against combined in the regular season.

Also, the reason why I believed Toronto was beatable was because they barely squeaked by Indiana and Miami. It took 7 games in each of those series and it also took extremely lucky shots for them to get by two teams that were not definitively better than the Celtics were. Also Biyombo only went crazy because of the circumstances. Valanciunas' injury gave him the extended minutes.

Also, the whole lottery odds thing doesn't matter. No one here knows what would have happened. If you want to be a pessimist about it, go ahead no one's stopping you. This all is what makes a hypothetical a hypothetical.  I think anyone who is anyone would have preferred Charlotte over Atlanta not to mention the homecourt advantage. Also I'm pretty sure we all would have preferred having higher odds in the lottery wouldn't you agree?

That all ties down to just answering your question earlier, which is yes. It's true the Celtics weren't equipped to win the championship last year or this year right now, but they could have been had things gone their way. Better yet, their equipped to make a move to better themselves now. You said you wanted to develop the young kids, which I don't think the Celtics primarily care about because the Horford signing was a win-now move.

I guess this is my major point of disagreement. I don't think they could have won the championship last year. In theory, anyone can. I just think they (and about 26 other teams) had a very small chance (less than 2%) of getting a ring. That's just a guess- I don't think there's a scientific way to absolutely capture their precise odds.

I understand if you're interested in the slow but steady improvement strategy (winning a playoff series vs Charlotte). That doesn't do all that much for me.

I'm not certain that makes me a pessimist. I love the direction that Danny and Brad are taking. I really like our young players, and I love the fact that we will have more top draft picks coming in soon.

Good. Agree to disagree and much respect to you from one fan to another because we're all on the same side here. However, I'm not talking about winning one series against Charlotte as the end goal. Like you, I want Banner 18. However, my point is that a better, deeper playoff run could have done a lot of good for the team in free agency. Maybe what made Boston a turn off to Durant was their not impressive playoff run. If the Celtics had gone deeper, we could be cheering for him in green right now. Better yet, if we had beaten Brooklyn all 4 times, we might very well be rooting for Jimmy Butler right alongside Durant. It all ties into point that every game matters because you never know what repercussions come following the regular season. That's all.

[LooseCannon]

Felger is upping his troll game as preparation to run for governor of Massachusetts, obviously.

[PhoSita]

Felger is upping his troll game as preparation to run for governor of Massachusetts, obviously.

After what we've seen this year, I wouldn't doubt it could happen.

[Ilikesports17]

Green bballers, before I go any further I want to clarify your argument.

Heres my understanding of it.

Theres only a few teams with real shots at rings. This year its probably Cleveland Golden State and maybe San Antonio. The Clippers are close enough that they may as well contend too.

After that, you arent gonna win a ring, so the focus shouldnt be on this years results it should be on leveraging this year to put you in better position to eventually join that group of contenders.

This means that any idividual game is not so important. Instead we should focus on player development.

As such, Id rather lose a few extra games and lose home court and an easy first round matchup if it can result in accelerated development for guys like Jaylen Brown and Terry Rozier.

Is that right?

My response to this would be that I agree.

This seasons results take a backseat to putting yourself in the best position for future contention.

However, this attitude probably doesnt get you Isaiah Thomas. Instead you hand over the reigns to Smart. It probably means Brandon Bass goes a half year earlier and maybe the same is said for Evan Turner.

This means maybe no playoffs in '14. Does this mean Amir doesnt sign in '15? he probably doesnt?

Also if we dont bring in Isaiah in '14 does Crowder resign here? what happens if we bench Crowder so that we can develop guys like James Young? does Crowder resign then?

What happens when we lose a few extra games and Amir doesnt see us as a playoff squad? Then we drop a few extra games and come in as the 7 or 8 seed and get swept by cleveland or Toronto.

Then what?

no Al Horford I promise you that. No KD meeting.

winning established a positive culture it makes you an attractive location and makes your assets more attractive themselves.

[Atzar]

someone actually criticized him for it?... or is this one of those things where people are outraged about fake outrage.

The latter.  Felger is the embodiment of fake outrage, and he's the only one I've seen chirping about this.

Non-story.  Giving his comments this much airplay is just encouragement.

[CelticPride2016]

Thanks. I am part of the older crowd who can remember when the Boston Globe Sports was the reason to buy it.

TP for bringing back a great memory.

Mike

I remember driving out at 2 a.m. on Saturday to Sunday overnights to get the Sunday Globe basically for the sports pages. I think Will McDonough usually ran a big column on Saturdays, so that day was good too.

After the Red Sox won in 2004, it felt like sports had finally ended. I think Boston is too fixated on sports. Maybe I am like an ex-Scientologist. I am an ex-Boston sports junkie.

Patriots 2001 and Red Sox 2004 kind of wrapped up Boston sports mythology. Celtics 2008 was frosting on the cake. I guess the Bruins winning the Stanley Cup was the frosting. We became Championship City no matter what the sport. It was a sort of Grand Slam accomplishment.

What can match the Red Sox coming back from 0-3 to the Yankees? Nothing.

[mgent]

Only Felger....

I don't even know why they let him say anything about the Celtics.