New Marcus Smart comparison?

[LarBrd33]

I see a smaller version of Metta World Peace.  His best skills are his lock down defense and toughness.  I don't think he is quick enough to be a point guard and cannot shoot well enough to be a starting two guard. I see him more as that junk yard dog guy which every team needs.

This is a great comparison.  I'll second it.   Smart is a shorter poor man's Ron Artest.  Young Artest put up similar shooting percentages, but was a beast defensively.

Why do you say poor man's Ron Artest (MWP)?  Nevermind, I know.

The athlete formally known as Ron Artest (MWP) is bigger and thereby versatile in different ways but Smart is every bit as valuable as MWP was at 22.

I doubt Smart will have the durability of MWP, that I concede.

He's not as good as young Artest.  Period.

There's no perfect comp for Smart.  You can find some players better than him (like young Artest) and call him a "poor man's ___"... or you can find guys worse than him (like Marcus Banks) and call him a "rich man's ____". 

There's no perfect example of a bulky 6'4 defender with garbage offense, solid intangibles, quality flopping, the clutch gene, and mediocre distribution skills.

[mctyson]

Somewhere between Kirk Hinrich and Tony Allen.

I have always said his ceiling is Gary Payton and I am sticking to that.

[mctyson]

I've said it before (possibly not on the forums), but I think Smart's upside is Chauncey Billups. 

Billups is another good ceiling target, though Marcus is already superior to him on defense.

[mctyson]

I'd be psyched to have Ron Artest on my team, before he hits his prime.

And for anyone claiming Artest was some offensive wunderkind, he was a 41% career shooter and 34% career from 3.  That is not out of reach for Marcus Smart, and Smart could be equal on defense.

[Monkhouse]

Still stand by him being the Draymond Green of a guard version...

[celticsclay]

I'd be psyched to have Ron Artest on my team, before he hits his prime.

And for anyone claiming Artest was some offensive wunderkind, he was a 41% career shooter and 34% career from 3.  That is not out of reach for Marcus Smart, and Smart could be equal on defense.

In his second season Artest averaged 11.9 points on 40% shooting and 29% 3pt shooting.
3.9 rebounds, 3.3 assists

Smart is at 37% and 34% when he hasn't even been healthy enough to play close to two seasons of games with 10.5, 4.5, 3.5.

Even if you want to back to his injury riddled campaign last year he had 9, 4 and 3 on 35% and 25%

Really not much of a difference. Rinse Lather Repeat. TPs for all that shoot down the madness!

Guess who ever called him a poor mans version doesn't really understand that expression.
Also a final nail in the coffin for this loser of a debate saying Young Ron Artest was more successful than young Marcus Smart.

Smart's similar numbers were on a team winning 48 games. Artest's Bulls won 15 games.
Smart even averaged less turnovers as a guard! Feels good to disprove something so resoundingly with fair numbers.

[alldaboston]

Still stand by him being the Draymond Green of a guard version...

I like this one too. A lot of Lakers fans want to pass Randle as the next Green, but they forget that there's two sides to the game, and Randle is not particularly good at the defensive portion of it.

Smart has a lot of the same talents and traits as Green. He even hits people in the nuts!

[alldaboston]

I'd be psyched to have Ron Artest on my team, before he hits his prime.

And for anyone claiming Artest was some offensive wunderkind, he was a 41% career shooter and 34% career from 3.  That is not out of reach for Marcus Smart, and Smart could be equal on defense.

In his second season Artest averaged 11.9 points on 40% shooting and 29% 3pt shooting.
3.9 rebounds, 3.3 assists

Smart is at 37% and 34% when he hasn't even been healthy enough to play close to two seasons of games with 10.5, 4.5, 3.5.

Even if you want to back to his injury riddled campaign last year he had 9, 4 and 3 on 35% and 25%

Really not much of a difference. Rinse Lather Repeat. TPs for all that shoot down the madness!

Guess who ever called him a poor mans version doesn't really understand that expression.
Also a final nail in the coffin for this loser of a debate saying Young Ron Artest was more successful than young Marcus Smart.

Smart's similar numbers were on a team winning 48 games. Artest's Bulls won 15 games.
Smart even averaged less turnovers as a guard! Feels good to disprove something so resoundingly with fair numbers.

"Something-something tiers, something-something per 36"

[celticsclay]

I'd be psyched to have Ron Artest on my team, before he hits his prime.

And for anyone claiming Artest was some offensive wunderkind, he was a 41% career shooter and 34% career from 3.  That is not out of reach for Marcus Smart, and Smart could be equal on defense.

In his second season Artest averaged 11.9 points on 40% shooting and 29% 3pt shooting.
3.9 rebounds, 3.3 assists

Smart is at 37% and 34% when he hasn't even been healthy enough to play close to two seasons of games with 10.5, 4.5, 3.5.

Even if you want to back to his injury riddled campaign last year he had 9, 4 and 3 on 35% and 25%

Really not much of a difference. Rinse Lather Repeat. TPs for all that shoot down the madness!

Guess who ever called him a poor mans version doesn't really understand that expression.
Also a final nail in the coffin for this loser of a debate saying Young Ron Artest was more successful than young Marcus Smart.

Smart's similar numbers were on a team winning 48 games. Artest's Bulls won 15 games.
Smart even averaged less turnovers as a guard! Feels good to disprove something so resoundingly with fair numbers.

"Something-something tiers, something-something per 36"

I am sure he will try to come up with something. At the end of the facts are facts.

In their second season Smart played 4 less minutes than Artest so the per 36 numbers
actually help even out Smart in scoring even more (and smart outrebounded him which is embarassing for Artest). Note because the 36 numbers only help smart LB will not acknowledge them in this instance. I stand by the fact they are a useless fact, but since he always includes them I acknowledge them.

How about advanced stats. per basketball reference per 100 posessions Artest was at 95ORT and 103 DRT. Smart 101 to 104. Another win for smart!

How about Win Shares?

Artest was at 1.9. Smart was at 2.9.

Then you throw in the fact that Smart was actually playing on a good team.

You look at the stuff and you realize the statement "He's not as good as young Artest.  Period."
is missing one beautiful word. It should read "He's not as good as young Artest.  Period. He's better"

In lieu of tommy points please make a small donation with the small non-profit research organization called S.I.P.M) (Stop Inaccurate Spread of Misinformation)dedicated to preventing commentary being presented in overly confident and gregarious manner when it is factually incorrect. They really have their work cut out for them these days.

[LarBrd33]

I'd be psyched to have Ron Artest on my team, before he hits his prime.

And for anyone claiming Artest was some offensive wunderkind, he was a 41% career shooter and 34% career from 3.  That is not out of reach for Marcus Smart, and Smart could be equal on defense.

In his second season Artest averaged 11.9 points on 40% shooting and 29% 3pt shooting.
3.9 rebounds, 3.3 assists

Smart is at 37% and 34% when he hasn't even been healthy enough to play close to two seasons of games with 10.5, 4.5, 3.5.

Even if you want to back to his injury riddled campaign last year he had 9, 4 and 3 on 35% and 25%

Really not much of a difference. Rinse Lather Repeat. TPs for all that shoot down the madness!

Guess who ever called him a poor mans version doesn't really understand that expression.
Also a final nail in the coffin for this loser of a debate saying Young Ron Artest was more successful than young Marcus Smart.

Smart's similar numbers were on a team winning 48 games. Artest's Bulls won 15 games.
Smart even averaged less turnovers as a guard! Feels good to disprove something so resoundingly with fair numbers.

"Something-something tiers, something-something per 36"

Funny... I used Per-36 for Smart's own benefit.   Do straight-up comparison of Artest his first 3 years vs Smart so far and Artest is the hands down winner.  Not to mention he was a better defender and had more size on Smart.

Code: [Select]

                                                       
Player               FG%  3P%  FT% TRB AST STL BLK  PTS
Marcus Smart        .359 .299 .706 3.8 3.1 1.5 0.3  8.6
Metta World Peace   .410 .306 .700 4.3 2.7 2.0 0.6 12.3


[PhoSita]

Artest was a 6'6'' 260 lb 3/4.  Not sure why we're deep-diving on that comparison.

[celticsclay]

I'd be psyched to have Ron Artest on my team, before he hits his prime.

And for anyone claiming Artest was some offensive wunderkind, he was a 41% career shooter and 34% career from 3.  That is not out of reach for Marcus Smart, and Smart could be equal on defense.

In his second season Artest averaged 11.9 points on 40% shooting and 29% 3pt shooting.
3.9 rebounds, 3.3 assists

Smart is at 37% and 34% when he hasn't even been healthy enough to play close to two seasons of games with 10.5, 4.5, 3.5.

Even if you want to back to his injury riddled campaign last year he had 9, 4 and 3 on 35% and 25%

Really not much of a difference. Rinse Lather Repeat. TPs for all that shoot down the madness!

Guess who ever called him a poor mans version doesn't really understand that expression.
Also a final nail in the coffin for this loser of a debate saying Young Ron Artest was more successful than young Marcus Smart.

Smart's similar numbers were on a team winning 48 games. Artest's Bulls won 15 games.
Smart even averaged less turnovers as a guard! Feels good to disprove something so resoundingly with fair numbers.

"Something-something tiers, something-something per 36"

Funny... I used Per-36 for Smart's own benefit.   Do straight-up comparison of Artest his first 3 years vs Smart so far and Artest is the hands down winner.  Not to mention he was a better defender and had more size on Smart.

Code: [Select]

                                                       
Player               FG%  3P%  FT% TRB AST STL BLK  PTS
Marcus Smart        .359 .299 .706 3.8 3.1 1.5 0.3  8.6
Metta World Peace   .410 .306 .700 4.3 2.7 2.0 0.6 12.3


LOL how can you compare their 3rd season when Smart has played 11 games. By regular statistics Smart's second year was the same or better than second year Artest. By advanced stats second year Smart was superior to second year Artest. Does that upset you?

[PhoSita]

Beautifully said Pho. I know you hate me, but I love you. TP.

Haha, why would I hate you?

If I disagreed with you in some other thread, I honestly don't even remember it now.

Life's too short to "hate" people on Internet forums.  Plus, we're all Celts fans.

[LarBrd33]

I'd be psyched to have Ron Artest on my team, before he hits his prime.

And for anyone claiming Artest was some offensive wunderkind, he was a 41% career shooter and 34% career from 3.  That is not out of reach for Marcus Smart, and Smart could be equal on defense.

In his second season Artest averaged 11.9 points on 40% shooting and 29% 3pt shooting.
3.9 rebounds, 3.3 assists

Smart is at 37% and 34% when he hasn't even been healthy enough to play close to two seasons of games with 10.5, 4.5, 3.5.

Even if you want to back to his injury riddled campaign last year he had 9, 4 and 3 on 35% and 25%

Really not much of a difference. Rinse Lather Repeat. TPs for all that shoot down the madness!

Guess who ever called him a poor mans version doesn't really understand that expression.
Also a final nail in the coffin for this loser of a debate saying Young Ron Artest was more successful than young Marcus Smart.

Smart's similar numbers were on a team winning 48 games. Artest's Bulls won 15 games.
Smart even averaged less turnovers as a guard! Feels good to disprove something so resoundingly with fair numbers.

"Something-something tiers, something-something per 36"

Funny... I used Per-36 for Smart's own benefit.   Do straight-up comparison of Artest his first 3 years vs Smart so far and Artest is the hands down winner.  Not to mention he was a better defender and had more size on Smart.

Code: [Select]

                                                       
Player               FG%  3P%  FT% TRB AST STL BLK  PTS
Marcus Smart        .359 .299 .706 3.8 3.1 1.5 0.3  8.6
Metta World Peace   .410 .306 .700 4.3 2.7 2.0 0.6 12.3


LOL how can you compare their 3rd season when Smart has played 11 games. By regular statistics Smart's second year was the same or better than second year Artest. By advanced stats second year Smart was superior to second year Artest. Does that upset you?

Artest's 2nd season he averaged 12 points, 4 rebounds, 3 assists, 2 steals with 40%/29%/75% shooting... Smart's 2nd season he averaged 9.1 points, 4.2 rebounds, 3 assists, 1.5 steals with historically bad 35%/25%/77% shooting

In what world was SMart's 2nd season better?

Clay, I wasn't comparing Smart's 3rd season (in which he's been dead last in offensive rating) to Artest's 3rd season.   I was comparing Artest through his first 3 years (all 3 years combined) vs Smart through his entire NBA career.   Does that upset you?

Calling Smart a poor man's Artest is intended as a compliment to Smart.  Artest was a darn fine player.  Much better than comparing Smart to Marcus Banks or something.

[PhoSita]

Based on what you thought we were drafting, are you disappointed in Smart's play so far?

It would be fair to say Smart has not turned into the kind of player I hoped he'd be back then.  Nor has he shown the kind of improvement that I was hoping, this time last year, that we'd see by now.

Oh well.  Most prospects don't pan out the way you expect.  It is surprising to me, though, that Smart in college was a solid finisher inside who got to the line a lot, but in the pros he shoots mostly outside jumpers and brings most of his value on defense and making hustle plays off the ball. 

I was hoping / expecting we'd get something along the lines of a defensive version of Eric Gordon / O.J. Mayo, or a less athetic Baron Davis.  Instead he's more like a Kirk Hinrich / Iman Shumpert / Keyon Dooling type guy.


Here's something I said about Marcus Smart back in 2014 before we drafted him:

A few things:

1.  The point about over-analyzing weaknesses is well taken.  I think Smart will benefit a LOT from the much more open nature of the NBA game (as most ball-dominant guards do).  The incident in the stands w/ Smart doesn't bother me at all.  I love Smart's fiery, passionate attitude.  Sometimes it gets expressed in counter-productive ways, but that's okay.  I'll take 5 Marcus Smarts on my team for every Jeff Green (i.e. seems like it's all the same to him whether the team wins or loses). 

2. I think the Celtics could really use an emotional leader on the floor, which is a big part of why I like the idea of drafting Smart.  Rondo will perhaps fill that role, but I'm just not convinced he's here long term, because I think this rebuild is going to last beyond this next season and Rondo wants to start winning meaningful games before his 30th birthday.

2. I see the Tyreke comparison, although Tyreke's never been considered a great defender by any means, and defense is one of Smart's main strengths.  Perhaps we could consider him something of a cross between Tyreke and our own Avery Bradley.  Sounds good to me.  For what it's worth, Ainge was reported to LOVE Tyreke before the 2009 draft.  I think Smart makes a lot of sense for the Celtics.

Safe to say he hasn't quite lived up to that, though he has delivered on the promise of being an "emotional leader on the floor" and having a "fiery, expressive attitude."