In depth analysis of Okafor

[celticsclay]

Hey all,

I know this topic has, in some respects, been beat to death. However, I also know this is a guy that many many celtics fans are interested in getting. I encourage those to read this article and watch the vines because it is really pretty eye opening. I also encourage you to check out what the Philly fans say about this guy in the comments section.

http://www.libertyballers.com/2016/11/8/13559540/jahlil-okafor-lack-of-defensive-awareness-appalling-duke-nba-nerlens-noel-center-sixers-76ers-embiid

[LarBrd33]

Impressive stuff from the young fella.  Looks like he can be a dominant force offensively long term.  Still coming back from an injury that kept him out over half a year including all of training camp and pre-season, and yet despite his lack of conditioning and current minute restriction, he was able to abuse a top-level defender like Rudy Gobert last night to the tune of 15 points in just 22 minutes. 

https://streamable.com/4edp

Uncanny. 

Clear star potential there once he gets into game shape and finds a role within a team's defense. 

Despite the exaggerated poor reputation, the 20 year old is still probably a greater prospect than anyone on the Celtics including Smart and Jaylen Brown.

[celticsclay]

Impressive stuff from the young fella.  Looks like he can be a dominant force offensively long term.  Still coming back from an injury that kept him out over half a year including all of training camp and pre-season, and yet despite his lack of conditioning and current minute restriction, he was able to abuse a top-level defender like Rudy Gobert last night to the tune of 15 points in just 22 minutes. 

https://streamable.com/4edp

Uncanny. 

Clear star potential there once he gets into game shame and finds a role within a team's defense. 

Despite the exaggerated poor reputation, the 20 year old is still probably a greater prospect than anyone on the Celtics including Smart and Jaylen Brown.

You are really getting to be on an island with that viewpoint. You just discount his defensive play and effort? I don't think a GM in the world would give up Brown to get Okafor at this point. Are the 76ers fans saying they would rather see holmes just all insane?

Regardless, your unbridled optimism won't change ever so the post wasn't really designed as a resource for you.

Edit: You also realize the 2 clips you showed where in the 4th quarter of a 20 point blowout. Nobody is saying this guy can't score in the post, the concern is his defense being absolutely horrible and unplayable. Until he improves that he will be nothing more than a spot offensive guy off the bench (which is what he is right now)

[TheSundanceKid]

Great, let's buy low on him then. Would love this guy on our team

[LarBrd33]

Impressive stuff from the young fella.  Looks like he can be a dominant force offensively long term.  Still coming back from an injury that kept him out over half a year including all of training camp and pre-season, and yet despite his lack of conditioning and current minute restriction, he was able to abuse a top-level defender like Rudy Gobert last night to the tune of 15 points in just 22 minutes. 

https://streamable.com/4edp

Uncanny. 

Clear star potential there once he gets into game shame and finds a role within a team's defense. 

Despite the exaggerated poor reputation, the 20 year old is still probably a greater prospect than anyone on the Celtics including Smart and Jaylen Brown.

You are really getting to be on an island with that viewpoint. You just discount his defensive play and effort?

Yes.  It's not new information.  I don't care at this point.  He's limited to 24 minutes per game off the bench right now while he gets back into proper cardiovascular shape.  Meanwhile, the team's superstar is also limited to 24 minutes and it's other superstar is out until January at the earliest.  It's a team that has no short-term future.  Most of these games are blowouts.  He plays for a team that is widely believed to not have him in their long term future.  NOthing about my opinion of Okafor has changed between the 10 win season and the start of this 0-5 season.  He's still someone who has star potential.

If "defensive effort" is his biggest problem right now, I wouldn't make that a deal-breaker in acquiring him.  He's 20 years old.  We don't know what he'd do on a team with a winning mentality where defensive effort is mandatory.   If he was playing for Boston, it would be a priority.  If he still lacked defensive effort after getting into game shape and playing on a system like this, I'd say it's concerning.  At this point, I'm considering context when looking at his laziness on the defensive end.

This of course is assuming Boston will actually be a strong defensive team and not the Okafor-esque bottom 3 defensive team that has exhibited pansynippled defensive effort over the first 6 games.  I'm not too concerned about that either at this point.

[celticsclay]

Impressive stuff from the young fella.  Looks like he can be a dominant force offensively long term.  Still coming back from an injury that kept him out over half a year including all of training camp and pre-season, and yet despite his lack of conditioning and current minute restriction, he was able to abuse a top-level defender like Rudy Gobert last night to the tune of 15 points in just 22 minutes. 

https://streamable.com/4edp

Uncanny. 

Clear star potential there once he gets into game shame and finds a role within a team's defense. 

Despite the exaggerated poor reputation, the 20 year old is still probably a greater prospect than anyone on the Celtics including Smart and Jaylen Brown.

You are really getting to be on an island with that viewpoint. You just discount his defensive play and effort?

Yes.  It's not new information.  I don't care at this point.  He's limited to 24 minutes per game off the bench right now while he gets back into proper cardiovascular shape.  Meanwhile, the team's superstar is also limited to 24 minutes and it's other superstar is out until January at the earliest.  It's a team that has no short-term future.  Most of these games are blowouts.  He plays for a team that is widely believed to not have him in their long term future.  NOthing about my opinion of Okafor has changed between the 10 win season and the start of this 0-5 season.  He's still someone who has star potential.

If "defensive effort" is his biggest problem right now, I wouldn't make that a deal-breaker in acquiring him.  He's 20 years old.  We don't know what he'd do on a team with a winning mentality where defensive effort is mandatory.   If he was playing for Boston, it would be a priority.  If he still lacked defensive effort after getting into game shape and playing on a system like this, I'd say it's concerning.  At this point, I'm considering context when looking at his laziness on the defensive end.

It is not just effort or laziness. He was aptly described as a gargoyle trying to close on pick and rolls in this article. His slow foot speed is real problem whether you want to acknowledge it or not. I think with agility drills it may be possible to moderately  increase foot speed, but it is one of the hardest things to improve. In some ways it is like us hoping IT gets 4 inches taller. It would make for more reasonable discourse if you wouldn't acknowledge these serious flaws that every other basketball writers discusses instead of just always responding with
"here is a highlight of two dunks. lulz. Future star per 36 number"

[LarBrd33]

Impressive stuff from the young fella.  Looks like he can be a dominant force offensively long term.  Still coming back from an injury that kept him out over half a year including all of training camp and pre-season, and yet despite his lack of conditioning and current minute restriction, he was able to abuse a top-level defender like Rudy Gobert last night to the tune of 15 points in just 22 minutes. 

https://streamable.com/4edp

Uncanny. 

Clear star potential there once he gets into game shame and finds a role within a team's defense. 

Despite the exaggerated poor reputation, the 20 year old is still probably a greater prospect than anyone on the Celtics including Smart and Jaylen Brown.

You are really getting to be on an island with that viewpoint. You just discount his defensive play and effort?

Yes.  It's not new information.  I don't care at this point.  He's limited to 24 minutes per game off the bench right now while he gets back into proper cardiovascular shape.  Meanwhile, the team's superstar is also limited to 24 minutes and it's other superstar is out until January at the earliest.  It's a team that has no short-term future.  Most of these games are blowouts.  He plays for a team that is widely believed to not have him in their long term future.  NOthing about my opinion of Okafor has changed between the 10 win season and the start of this 0-5 season.  He's still someone who has star potential.

If "defensive effort" is his biggest problem right now, I wouldn't make that a deal-breaker in acquiring him.  He's 20 years old.  We don't know what he'd do on a team with a winning mentality where defensive effort is mandatory.   If he was playing for Boston, it would be a priority.  If he still lacked defensive effort after getting into game shape and playing on a system like this, I'd say it's concerning.  At this point, I'm considering context when looking at his laziness on the defensive end.

It is not just effort or laziness. He was aptly described as a gargoyle trying to close on pick and rolls in this article.

The clips I saw were a gassed player with an understandable lack of motivation and poor defensive training just standing there and nonchalantly observing as the opposing team inevitably scored.   Dude needs to get into game shape, needs some proper coaching and needs to play on a team that actually cares about winning.  Until then, I'll give Okafor his due credit as a dynamic offensive player with a potentially very bright future. 

I don't blame people for starting threads about him constantly on a Celtic forum.  He's a rare example of a 20 year old potential star who could seemingly be acquired for well less than he's worth.   We'll continue to see obsessive threads about him from Celtic fans until either Okafor proves his merits on Philly or ends up on another team.

[LooseCannon]

Impressive stuff from the young fella.  Looks like he can be a dominant force offensively long term. 

A dominant offensive force with matador defense would be a clear undesirable.

[celticsclay]

Impressive stuff from the young fella.  Looks like he can be a dominant force offensively long term.  Still coming back from an injury that kept him out over half a year including all of training camp and pre-season, and yet despite his lack of conditioning and current minute restriction, he was able to abuse a top-level defender like Rudy Gobert last night to the tune of 15 points in just 22 minutes. 

https://streamable.com/4edp

Uncanny. 

Clear star potential there once he gets into game shame and finds a role within a team's defense. 

Despite the exaggerated poor reputation, the 20 year old is still probably a greater prospect than anyone on the Celtics including Smart and Jaylen Brown.

You are really getting to be on an island with that viewpoint. You just discount his defensive play and effort?

Yes.  It's not new information.  I don't care at this point.  He's limited to 24 minutes per game off the bench right now while he gets back into proper cardiovascular shape.  Meanwhile, the team's superstar is also limited to 24 minutes and it's other superstar is out until January at the earliest.  It's a team that has no short-term future.  Most of these games are blowouts.  He plays for a team that is widely believed to not have him in their long term future.  NOthing about my opinion of Okafor has changed between the 10 win season and the start of this 0-5 season.  He's still someone who has star potential.

If "defensive effort" is his biggest problem right now, I wouldn't make that a deal-breaker in acquiring him.  He's 20 years old.  We don't know what he'd do on a team with a winning mentality where defensive effort is mandatory.   If he was playing for Boston, it would be a priority.  If he still lacked defensive effort after getting into game shape and playing on a system like this, I'd say it's concerning.  At this point, I'm considering context when looking at his laziness on the defensive end.

It is not just effort or laziness. He was aptly described as a gargoyle trying to close on pick and rolls in this article.

The clips I saw were a gassed player with an understandable lack of motivation and poor defensive training just standing there and nonchalantly observing as the opposing team inevitably scored.   Dude needs to get into game shape, needs some proper coaching and needs to play on a team that actually cares about winning.  Until then, I'll give Okafor his due credit as a dynamic offensive player with a potentially very bright future. 

I don't blame people for starting threads about him constantly on a Celtic forum.  He's a rare example of a 20 year old potential star who could seemingly be acquired for well less than he's worth.   We'll continue to see obsessive threads about him from Celtic fans until either Okafor proves his merits on Philly or ends up on another team.

Or he is rotting on a bench in Philly for a few years or elsewhere. Slow foot speed.

[LarBrd33]

Impressive stuff from the young fella.  Looks like he can be a dominant force offensively long term.  Still coming back from an injury that kept him out over half a year including all of training camp and pre-season, and yet despite his lack of conditioning and current minute restriction, he was able to abuse a top-level defender like Rudy Gobert last night to the tune of 15 points in just 22 minutes. 

https://streamable.com/4edp

Uncanny. 

Clear star potential there once he gets into game shame and finds a role within a team's defense. 

Despite the exaggerated poor reputation, the 20 year old is still probably a greater prospect than anyone on the Celtics including Smart and Jaylen Brown.

You are really getting to be on an island with that viewpoint. You just discount his defensive play and effort?

Yes.  It's not new information.  I don't care at this point.  He's limited to 24 minutes per game off the bench right now while he gets back into proper cardiovascular shape.  Meanwhile, the team's superstar is also limited to 24 minutes and it's other superstar is out until January at the earliest.  It's a team that has no short-term future.  Most of these games are blowouts.  He plays for a team that is widely believed to not have him in their long term future.  NOthing about my opinion of Okafor has changed between the 10 win season and the start of this 0-5 season.  He's still someone who has star potential.

If "defensive effort" is his biggest problem right now, I wouldn't make that a deal-breaker in acquiring him.  He's 20 years old.  We don't know what he'd do on a team with a winning mentality where defensive effort is mandatory.   If he was playing for Boston, it would be a priority.  If he still lacked defensive effort after getting into game shape and playing on a system like this, I'd say it's concerning.  At this point, I'm considering context when looking at his laziness on the defensive end.

It is not just effort or laziness. He was aptly described as a gargoyle trying to close on pick and rolls in this article.

The clips I saw were a gassed player with an understandable lack of motivation and poor defensive training just standing there and nonchalantly observing as the opposing team inevitably scored.   Dude needs to get into game shape, needs some proper coaching and needs to play on a team that actually cares about winning.  Until then, I'll give Okafor his due credit as a dynamic offensive player with a potentially very bright future. 

I don't blame people for starting threads about him constantly on a Celtic forum.  He's a rare example of a 20 year old potential star who could seemingly be acquired for well less than he's worth.   We'll continue to see obsessive threads about him from Celtic fans until either Okafor proves his merits on Philly or ends up on another team.

Or he is rotting on a bench in Philly for a few years or elsewhere. Slow foot speed.

His slow foot speed makes sense right now.  You don't sit out 7 months with knee surgery, get in terrible shape, and show up in your first month back playing basketball moving at top speed.  You ever stopped playing basketball for a half year and tried to get back into it?  You aren't going to be playing max-effort defense and staying in front of your in-shape opponents when you're gasping for air. 

[LooseCannon]

Impressive stuff from the young fella.  Looks like he can be a dominant force offensively long term.  Still coming back from an injury that kept him out over half a year including all of training camp and pre-season, and yet despite his lack of conditioning and current minute restriction, he was able to abuse a top-level defender like Rudy Gobert last night to the tune of 15 points in just 22 minutes. 

https://streamable.com/4edp

Uncanny. 

Clear star potential there once he gets into game shame and finds a role within a team's defense. 

Despite the exaggerated poor reputation, the 20 year old is still probably a greater prospect than anyone on the Celtics including Smart and Jaylen Brown.

You are really getting to be on an island with that viewpoint. You just discount his defensive play and effort?

Yes.  It's not new information.  I don't care at this point.  He's limited to 24 minutes per game off the bench right now while he gets back into proper cardiovascular shape.  Meanwhile, the team's superstar is also limited to 24 minutes and it's other superstar is out until January at the earliest.  It's a team that has no short-term future.  Most of these games are blowouts.  He plays for a team that is widely believed to not have him in their long term future.  NOthing about my opinion of Okafor has changed between the 10 win season and the start of this 0-5 season.  He's still someone who has star potential.

If "defensive effort" is his biggest problem right now, I wouldn't make that a deal-breaker in acquiring him.  He's 20 years old.  We don't know what he'd do on a team with a winning mentality where defensive effort is mandatory.   If he was playing for Boston, it would be a priority.  If he still lacked defensive effort after getting into game shape and playing on a system like this, I'd say it's concerning.  At this point, I'm considering context when looking at his laziness on the defensive end.

It is not just effort or laziness. He was aptly described as a gargoyle trying to close on pick and rolls in this article.

The clips I saw were a gassed player with an understandable lack of motivation and poor defensive training just standing there and nonchalantly observing as the opposing team inevitably scored.   Dude needs to get into game shape, needs some proper coaching and needs to play on a team that actually cares about winning.  Until then, I'll give Okafor his due credit as a dynamic offensive player with a potentially very bright future. 

I don't blame people for starting threads about him constantly on a Celtic forum.  He's a rare example of a 20 year old potential star who could seemingly be acquired for well less than he's worth.   We'll continue to see obsessive threads about him from Celtic fans until either Okafor proves his merits on Philly or ends up on another team.

Or he is rotting on a bench in Philly for a few years or elsewhere. Slow foot speed.

His slow foot speed makes sense right now.  You don't sit out 7 months with knee surgery, get in terrible shape, and show up in your first month back playing basketball moving at top speed.  You ever stopped playing basketball for a half year and tried to get back into it?  You aren't going to be playing max-effort defense and staying in front of your in-shape opponents when you're gasping for air.

His slow foot speed was already seen as a problem before he was injured.  He wasn't magically fixed by surgery.  If you want to acquire Okafor and make him a significant part of your team, you should be oriented towards slowing down the pace.

[celticsclay]

Impressive stuff from the young fella.  Looks like he can be a dominant force offensively long term.  Still coming back from an injury that kept him out over half a year including all of training camp and pre-season, and yet despite his lack of conditioning and current minute restriction, he was able to abuse a top-level defender like Rudy Gobert last night to the tune of 15 points in just 22 minutes. 

https://streamable.com/4edp

Uncanny. 

Clear star potential there once he gets into game shame and finds a role within a team's defense. 

Despite the exaggerated poor reputation, the 20 year old is still probably a greater prospect than anyone on the Celtics including Smart and Jaylen Brown.

You are really getting to be on an island with that viewpoint. You just discount his defensive play and effort?

Yes.  It's not new information.  I don't care at this point.  He's limited to 24 minutes per game off the bench right now while he gets back into proper cardiovascular shape.  Meanwhile, the team's superstar is also limited to 24 minutes and it's other superstar is out until January at the earliest.  It's a team that has no short-term future.  Most of these games are blowouts.  He plays for a team that is widely believed to not have him in their long term future.  NOthing about my opinion of Okafor has changed between the 10 win season and the start of this 0-5 season.  He's still someone who has star potential.

If "defensive effort" is his biggest problem right now, I wouldn't make that a deal-breaker in acquiring him.  He's 20 years old.  We don't know what he'd do on a team with a winning mentality where defensive effort is mandatory.   If he was playing for Boston, it would be a priority.  If he still lacked defensive effort after getting into game shape and playing on a system like this, I'd say it's concerning.  At this point, I'm considering context when looking at his laziness on the defensive end.

It is not just effort or laziness. He was aptly described as a gargoyle trying to close on pick and rolls in this article.

The clips I saw were a gassed player with an understandable lack of motivation and poor defensive training just standing there and nonchalantly observing as the opposing team inevitably scored.   Dude needs to get into game shape, needs some proper coaching and needs to play on a team that actually cares about winning.  Until then, I'll give Okafor his due credit as a dynamic offensive player with a potentially very bright future. 

I don't blame people for starting threads about him constantly on a Celtic forum.  He's a rare example of a 20 year old potential star who could seemingly be acquired for well less than he's worth.   We'll continue to see obsessive threads about him from Celtic fans until either Okafor proves his merits on Philly or ends up on another team.

Or he is rotting on a bench in Philly for a few years or elsewhere. Slow foot speed.

His slow foot speed makes sense right now.  You don't sit out 7 months with knee surgery, get in terrible shape, and show up in your first month back playing basketball moving at top speed.  You ever stopped playing basketball for a half year and tried to get back into it?  You aren't going to be playing max-effort defense and staying in front of your in-shape opponents when you're gasping for air.

His foot speed was terrible last year. His foot speed is awful right when he gets in the game. I take it you are completely ignoring the analysis that points out that it is not an issue of his defense deteriorating because he gets tired and stops moving.

[celticsclay]

Impressive stuff from the young fella.  Looks like he can be a dominant force offensively long term.  Still coming back from an injury that kept him out over half a year including all of training camp and pre-season, and yet despite his lack of conditioning and current minute restriction, he was able to abuse a top-level defender like Rudy Gobert last night to the tune of 15 points in just 22 minutes. 

https://streamable.com/4edp

Uncanny. 

Clear star potential there once he gets into game shame and finds a role within a team's defense. 

Despite the exaggerated poor reputation, the 20 year old is still probably a greater prospect than anyone on the Celtics including Smart and Jaylen Brown.

You are really getting to be on an island with that viewpoint. You just discount his defensive play and effort?

Yes.  It's not new information.  I don't care at this point.  He's limited to 24 minutes per game off the bench right now while he gets back into proper cardiovascular shape.  Meanwhile, the team's superstar is also limited to 24 minutes and it's other superstar is out until January at the earliest.  It's a team that has no short-term future.  Most of these games are blowouts.  He plays for a team that is widely believed to not have him in their long term future.  NOthing about my opinion of Okafor has changed between the 10 win season and the start of this 0-5 season.  He's still someone who has star potential.

If "defensive effort" is his biggest problem right now, I wouldn't make that a deal-breaker in acquiring him.  He's 20 years old.  We don't know what he'd do on a team with a winning mentality where defensive effort is mandatory.   If he was playing for Boston, it would be a priority.  If he still lacked defensive effort after getting into game shape and playing on a system like this, I'd say it's concerning.  At this point, I'm considering context when looking at his laziness on the defensive end.

It is not just effort or laziness. He was aptly described as a gargoyle trying to close on pick and rolls in this article.

The clips I saw were a gassed player with an understandable lack of motivation and poor defensive training just standing there and nonchalantly observing as the opposing team inevitably scored.   Dude needs to get into game shape, needs some proper coaching and needs to play on a team that actually cares about winning.  Until then, I'll give Okafor his due credit as a dynamic offensive player with a potentially very bright future. 

I don't blame people for starting threads about him constantly on a Celtic forum.  He's a rare example of a 20 year old potential star who could seemingly be acquired for well less than he's worth.   We'll continue to see obsessive threads about him from Celtic fans until either Okafor proves his merits on Philly or ends up on another team.

Or he is rotting on a bench in Philly for a few years or elsewhere. Slow foot speed.

His slow foot speed makes sense right now.  You don't sit out 7 months with knee surgery, get in terrible shape, and show up in your first month back playing basketball moving at top speed.  You ever stopped playing basketball for a half year and tried to get back into it?  You aren't going to be playing max-effort defense and staying in front of your in-shape opponents when you're gasping for air.

His slow foot speed was already seen as a problem before he was injured.  He wasn't magically fixed by surgery.  If you want to acquire Okafor and make him a significant part of your team, you should be oriented towards slowing down the pace.

Thank you for making this point also.

[LarBrd33]

He's believed to be available for a reason.  We are talking about him for a reason.  You don't start threads about random scrubs.  Okafor is a topic because he's a big man with star potential that could conceivably be traded before his rookie contract is up.  He has things he definitely needs to work on. He has legit star potential though.

[LooseCannon]

He's believed to be available for a reason.  We are talking about him for a reason.  You don't start threads about random scrubs.  Okafor is a topic because he's a big man with star potential that could conceivably be traded before his rookie contract is up.  He has things he definitely needs to work on. He has legit star potential though.

He's available because there's a chance that Philly can find a sucker who thinks Okafor has more star potential than he actually has.  He has a lot of potential to score 20+ ppg in a major media market for a 30-win team.  He has very little chance of being the leading scorer on a championship-caliber team.