In depth analysis of Okafor

[Eddie20]

Did you unblock LB or something?

i believe you can see posts from someone you've blocked if they're quoted by someone else who you havent blocked.

Yeah, that's correct. Not surprising he's singing the same old song; poor guy.

[LarBrd33]

Clay, you seem to think this is a "debate" about whether or not Philly fans still like Okafor.   Eddie seemed to think he was "debating" with me about whether or not the media thought Okafor had a lot of trade value.   

Neither of those "debates" are interesting to me.  I genuinely don't care one way or the other if Philly fans like Okafor or if some publication thinks Okafor is only worth Marcus Smart and a 1st round pick.  That's irrelevant to me and has never been what I was standing my ground about. 

I feel it's necessary to step back and reiterate what my point about Okafor has been for the past several months... as I feel it's getting lost in some straw man arguments that I have zero interest in participating in.

Okafor is already displaying exceptional offensive ability.  He's got great footwork and touch around the rim.  He's got an impressive array of post moves and can attack you offensively in multiple ways.  You merely need to watch footage of him going toe to toe with Demarcus Cousins during Okafor's rookie year to get a sense of his long-term potential:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXIZEAo9Fec ...  or alternatively, watch him drop 19 points in 20 minutes last night:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K7IPLUgOWU  ... He's a 20 year old kid putting up per-36 numbers of 21 points, 7 rebounds and 2 blocks with 51% shooting.   He has undeniable offensive potential.   He also has undeniable flaws on the defensive end.  He's lazy, lacks defensive aggressiveness, and some folks have concerns about his foot speed - though they ignore the fact he has 7'5 wingspan and several slow-footed bigs have developed into competent defenders with the right supporting cast and system. 

The big thing, though... is that he's 63 games into his career and people here are acting like he's a finished product.   I think for two key reasons (#1 - that he plays for Philly, #2 - that we've reportedly attempted to trade for him multiple times and Philly has rejected us), people here are grading him on a laughable curve. Look at some of our own players over the years through 63 games. Okafor deserves the same pass we have given our own flawed/terrible prospects.  I'm not writing off a 20 year old with clear and obvious skills before he's even played 82 professional games.  I'm not disputing that he has flaws.  I'm not disputing that some/most Philly fans would prefer he's traded.  I'm not disputing that some media types might think he's only worth Marcus Smart and 1st rounder.  I'm just saying that he's an intriguing prospect with star potential and he's likely a better prospect than any Celtic under the age of 24.   I don't blame people here for starting threads about him daily.  Typically, 20 year old 7 footers with his kind of potential aren't openly available on the trade market.  It's a unique situation.

I'll keep singing this poor old song as long as ignorance here persists.  If folks are offended by me continuing to speak the truth, they can pretend to block me just like Eddie has.

[celticsclay]

Clay, you seem to think this is a "debate" about whether or not Philly fans still like Okafor.   Eddie seemed to think he was "debating" with me about whether or not the media thought Okafor had a lot of trade value.   

Neither of those "debates" are interesting to me.  I genuinely don't care one way or the other if Philly fans like Okafor or if some publication thinks Okafor is only worth Marcus Smart and a 1st round pick.  That's irrelevant to me and has never been what I was standing my ground about. 

I feel it's necessary to step back and reiterate what my point about Okafor has been for the past several months... as I feel it's getting lost in some straw man arguments that I have zero interest in participating in.

Okafor is already displaying exceptional offensive ability.  He's got great footwork and touch around the rim.  He's got an impressive array of post moves and can attack you offensively in multiple ways.  You merely need to watch footage of him going toe to toe with Demarcus Cousins during Okafor's rookie year to get a sense of his long-term potential:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXIZEAo9Fec ...  or alternatively, watch him drop 19 points in 20 minutes last night:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K7IPLUgOWU  ... He's a 20 year old kid putting up per-36 numbers of 21 points, 7 rebounds and 2 blocks with 51% shooting.   He has undeniable offensive potential.   He also has undeniable flaws on the defensive end.  He's lazy, lacks defensive aggressiveness, and some folks have concerns about his foot speed - though they ignore the fact he has 7'5 wingspan and several slow-footed bigs have developed into competent defenders with the right supporting cast and system. 

The big thing, though... is that he's 63 games into his career and people here are acting like he's a finished product.   I think for two key reasons (#1 - that he plays for Philly, #2 - that we've reportedly attempted to trade for him multiple times and Philly has rejected us), people here are grading him on a laughable curve. Look at some of our own players over the years through 63 games. Okafor deserves the same pass we have given our own flawed/terrible prospects.  I'm not writing off a 20 year old with clear and obvious skills before he's even played 82 professional games.  I'm not disputing that he has flaws.  I'm not disputing that some/most Philly fans would prefer he's traded.  I'm not disputing that some media types might think he's only worth Marcus Smart and 1st rounder.  I'm just saying that he's an intriguing prospect with star potential and he's likely a better prospect than any Celtic under the age of 24.   I don't blame people here for starting threads about him daily.  Typically, 20 year old 7 footers with his kind of potential aren't openly available on the trade market.  It's a unique situation.

I'll keep singing this poor old song as long as ignorance here persists.  If folks are offended by me continuing to speak the truth, they can pretend to block me just like Eddie has.

That is all well and good. Honestly the most fascinating part of this to me is how much a fan base has turned on their own rookie 62 games into his career that puts up good raw stats. That part is interesting to me because it is so rare and unusual. Contrary to the reasons you suggest, I really doubt he is ever a perennial all star impacting the Celtics in any way and I really don't see him ever suiting up for the celtics because he just doesn't fit with our team and style of play.

In my memory, this is kind of unprecedented. I know we have people that will bash Brown this year and next year when he is playing bad, but you won't see our entire board wanting him traded for a rotation player like McDermott.

Ill also give you a TP and credit in this thread cause you have made reasonable points. While I disagree with your assessment, I do thank you for not being ridiculous about and it unwilling to admit opposing views either.

[tankcity!]

Keep digging Lbrrd. Told you about Okafor's trade value. Let's see what happens when they trade him. Only way you'll admit defeat at this point.

There's still a chance they don't trade him at all.   I wouldn't trade him if I had him... certainly not for the laughable offers we see on Celticsblog threads.

It's 63 games into a 20 year old's career in which he's averaging 21 points, 7 rebounds and 2 blocks per 36 minutes and people are acting like he's a finished product.  It's hilarious.

Well that's why I want the Celtics to trade for him. It would be a ripoff and I personally don't think Philly can do anything about it. If they want to keep him. That's great, pay him the max. If they don't, then trade for a bag of balls. Only mistake Hinkie made was drafting 3 centers.

[LarBrd33]

Clay, you seem to think this is a "debate" about whether or not Philly fans still like Okafor.   Eddie seemed to think he was "debating" with me about whether or not the media thought Okafor had a lot of trade value.   

Neither of those "debates" are interesting to me.  I genuinely don't care one way or the other if Philly fans like Okafor or if some publication thinks Okafor is only worth Marcus Smart and a 1st round pick.  That's irrelevant to me and has never been what I was standing my ground about. 

I feel it's necessary to step back and reiterate what my point about Okafor has been for the past several months... as I feel it's getting lost in some straw man arguments that I have zero interest in participating in.

Okafor is already displaying exceptional offensive ability.  He's got great footwork and touch around the rim.  He's got an impressive array of post moves and can attack you offensively in multiple ways.  You merely need to watch footage of him going toe to toe with Demarcus Cousins during Okafor's rookie year to get a sense of his long-term potential:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXIZEAo9Fec ...  or alternatively, watch him drop 19 points in 20 minutes last night:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K7IPLUgOWU  ... He's a 20 year old kid putting up per-36 numbers of 21 points, 7 rebounds and 2 blocks with 51% shooting.   He has undeniable offensive potential.   He also has undeniable flaws on the defensive end.  He's lazy, lacks defensive aggressiveness, and some folks have concerns about his foot speed - though they ignore the fact he has 7'5 wingspan and several slow-footed bigs have developed into competent defenders with the right supporting cast and system. 

The big thing, though... is that he's 63 games into his career and people here are acting like he's a finished product.   I think for two key reasons (#1 - that he plays for Philly, #2 - that we've reportedly attempted to trade for him multiple times and Philly has rejected us), people here are grading him on a laughable curve. Look at some of our own players over the years through 63 games. Okafor deserves the same pass we have given our own flawed/terrible prospects.  I'm not writing off a 20 year old with clear and obvious skills before he's even played 82 professional games.  I'm not disputing that he has flaws.  I'm not disputing that some/most Philly fans would prefer he's traded.  I'm not disputing that some media types might think he's only worth Marcus Smart and 1st rounder.  I'm just saying that he's an intriguing prospect with star potential and he's likely a better prospect than any Celtic under the age of 24.   I don't blame people here for starting threads about him daily.  Typically, 20 year old 7 footers with his kind of potential aren't openly available on the trade market.  It's a unique situation.

I'll keep singing this poor old song as long as ignorance here persists.  If folks are offended by me continuing to speak the truth, they can pretend to block me just like Eddie has.

That is all well and good. Honestly the most fascinating part of this to me is how much a fan base has turned on their own rookie 62 games into his career that puts up good raw stats.

It shouldn't surprise you Clay.   Our own fanbase called our starting big (Amir Johnson) "poop" earlier this year.  In previous years, the fanbase constantly ripped on Evan Turner despite the fact he was statistically one of the best players on the team.   Fans are reactionary.  Right now Philly fans just want Embiid playing 30+ minutes, Simmons healthy, and want to see their other bigs traded for equal-value players at positions of need.  It's going to be hard for Philly to get equal value for either Okafor or Noel.  That's likely why neither has been traded yet.

[celticsclay]

Clay, you seem to think this is a "debate" about whether or not Philly fans still like Okafor.   Eddie seemed to think he was "debating" with me about whether or not the media thought Okafor had a lot of trade value.   

Neither of those "debates" are interesting to me.  I genuinely don't care one way or the other if Philly fans like Okafor or if some publication thinks Okafor is only worth Marcus Smart and a 1st round pick.  That's irrelevant to me and has never been what I was standing my ground about. 

I feel it's necessary to step back and reiterate what my point about Okafor has been for the past several months... as I feel it's getting lost in some straw man arguments that I have zero interest in participating in.

Okafor is already displaying exceptional offensive ability.  He's got great footwork and touch around the rim.  He's got an impressive array of post moves and can attack you offensively in multiple ways.  You merely need to watch footage of him going toe to toe with Demarcus Cousins during Okafor's rookie year to get a sense of his long-term potential:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXIZEAo9Fec ...  or alternatively, watch him drop 19 points in 20 minutes last night:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K7IPLUgOWU  ... He's a 20 year old kid putting up per-36 numbers of 21 points, 7 rebounds and 2 blocks with 51% shooting.   He has undeniable offensive potential.   He also has undeniable flaws on the defensive end.  He's lazy, lacks defensive aggressiveness, and some folks have concerns about his foot speed - though they ignore the fact he has 7'5 wingspan and several slow-footed bigs have developed into competent defenders with the right supporting cast and system. 

The big thing, though... is that he's 63 games into his career and people here are acting like he's a finished product.   I think for two key reasons (#1 - that he plays for Philly, #2 - that we've reportedly attempted to trade for him multiple times and Philly has rejected us), people here are grading him on a laughable curve. Look at some of our own players over the years through 63 games. Okafor deserves the same pass we have given our own flawed/terrible prospects.  I'm not writing off a 20 year old with clear and obvious skills before he's even played 82 professional games.  I'm not disputing that he has flaws.  I'm not disputing that some/most Philly fans would prefer he's traded.  I'm not disputing that some media types might think he's only worth Marcus Smart and 1st rounder.  I'm just saying that he's an intriguing prospect with star potential and he's likely a better prospect than any Celtic under the age of 24.   I don't blame people here for starting threads about him daily.  Typically, 20 year old 7 footers with his kind of potential aren't openly available on the trade market.  It's a unique situation.

I'll keep singing this poor old song as long as ignorance here persists.  If folks are offended by me continuing to speak the truth, they can pretend to block me just like Eddie has.

That is all well and good. Honestly the most fascinating part of this to me is how much a fan base has turned on their own rookie 62 games into his career that puts up good raw stats.

It shouldn't surprise you Clay.   Our own fanbase called our starting big (Amir Johnson) "poop" earlier this year.  In previous years, the fanbase constantly ripped on Evan Turner despite the fact he was statistically one of the best players on the team.   Fans are reactionary.  Right now Philly fans just want Embiid playing 30+ minutes, Simmons healthy, and want to see their other bigs traded for equal-value players at positions of need.  It's going to be hard for Philly to get equal value for either Okafor or Noel.  That's likely why neither has been traded yet.

You would agree that turning on a 20 year old with 60+ games under his belt is different than turning on a 30+ middling vet or a reclamation project with a weird personality that was once a top lottery pick right? 

[LarBrd33]

Clay, you seem to think this is a "debate" about whether or not Philly fans still like Okafor.   Eddie seemed to think he was "debating" with me about whether or not the media thought Okafor had a lot of trade value.   

Neither of those "debates" are interesting to me.  I genuinely don't care one way or the other if Philly fans like Okafor or if some publication thinks Okafor is only worth Marcus Smart and a 1st round pick.  That's irrelevant to me and has never been what I was standing my ground about. 

I feel it's necessary to step back and reiterate what my point about Okafor has been for the past several months... as I feel it's getting lost in some straw man arguments that I have zero interest in participating in.

Okafor is already displaying exceptional offensive ability.  He's got great footwork and touch around the rim.  He's got an impressive array of post moves and can attack you offensively in multiple ways.  You merely need to watch footage of him going toe to toe with Demarcus Cousins during Okafor's rookie year to get a sense of his long-term potential:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXIZEAo9Fec ...  or alternatively, watch him drop 19 points in 20 minutes last night:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K7IPLUgOWU  ... He's a 20 year old kid putting up per-36 numbers of 21 points, 7 rebounds and 2 blocks with 51% shooting.   He has undeniable offensive potential.   He also has undeniable flaws on the defensive end.  He's lazy, lacks defensive aggressiveness, and some folks have concerns about his foot speed - though they ignore the fact he has 7'5 wingspan and several slow-footed bigs have developed into competent defenders with the right supporting cast and system. 

The big thing, though... is that he's 63 games into his career and people here are acting like he's a finished product.   I think for two key reasons (#1 - that he plays for Philly, #2 - that we've reportedly attempted to trade for him multiple times and Philly has rejected us), people here are grading him on a laughable curve. Look at some of our own players over the years through 63 games. Okafor deserves the same pass we have given our own flawed/terrible prospects.  I'm not writing off a 20 year old with clear and obvious skills before he's even played 82 professional games.  I'm not disputing that he has flaws.  I'm not disputing that some/most Philly fans would prefer he's traded.  I'm not disputing that some media types might think he's only worth Marcus Smart and 1st rounder.  I'm just saying that he's an intriguing prospect with star potential and he's likely a better prospect than any Celtic under the age of 24.   I don't blame people here for starting threads about him daily.  Typically, 20 year old 7 footers with his kind of potential aren't openly available on the trade market.  It's a unique situation.

I'll keep singing this poor old song as long as ignorance here persists.  If folks are offended by me continuing to speak the truth, they can pretend to block me just like Eddie has.

That is all well and good. Honestly the most fascinating part of this to me is how much a fan base has turned on their own rookie 62 games into his career that puts up good raw stats.

It shouldn't surprise you Clay.   Our own fanbase called our starting big (Amir Johnson) "poop" earlier this year.  In previous years, the fanbase constantly ripped on Evan Turner despite the fact he was statistically one of the best players on the team.   Fans are reactionary.  Right now Philly fans just want Embiid playing 30+ minutes, Simmons healthy, and want to see their other bigs traded for equal-value players at positions of need.  It's going to be hard for Philly to get equal value for either Okafor or Noel.  That's likely why neither has been traded yet.

You would agree that turning on a 20 year old with 60+ games under his belt is different than turning on a 30+ middling vet or a reclamation project with a weird personality that was once a top lottery pick right?

There's already people here who want to trade Jaylen Brown and he's only got 11 games under his belt.

[celticsclay]

Clay, you seem to think this is a "debate" about whether or not Philly fans still like Okafor.   Eddie seemed to think he was "debating" with me about whether or not the media thought Okafor had a lot of trade value.   

Neither of those "debates" are interesting to me.  I genuinely don't care one way or the other if Philly fans like Okafor or if some publication thinks Okafor is only worth Marcus Smart and a 1st round pick.  That's irrelevant to me and has never been what I was standing my ground about. 

I feel it's necessary to step back and reiterate what my point about Okafor has been for the past several months... as I feel it's getting lost in some straw man arguments that I have zero interest in participating in.

Okafor is already displaying exceptional offensive ability.  He's got great footwork and touch around the rim.  He's got an impressive array of post moves and can attack you offensively in multiple ways.  You merely need to watch footage of him going toe to toe with Demarcus Cousins during Okafor's rookie year to get a sense of his long-term potential:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXIZEAo9Fec ...  or alternatively, watch him drop 19 points in 20 minutes last night:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K7IPLUgOWU  ... He's a 20 year old kid putting up per-36 numbers of 21 points, 7 rebounds and 2 blocks with 51% shooting.   He has undeniable offensive potential.   He also has undeniable flaws on the defensive end.  He's lazy, lacks defensive aggressiveness, and some folks have concerns about his foot speed - though they ignore the fact he has 7'5 wingspan and several slow-footed bigs have developed into competent defenders with the right supporting cast and system. 

The big thing, though... is that he's 63 games into his career and people here are acting like he's a finished product.   I think for two key reasons (#1 - that he plays for Philly, #2 - that we've reportedly attempted to trade for him multiple times and Philly has rejected us), people here are grading him on a laughable curve. Look at some of our own players over the years through 63 games. Okafor deserves the same pass we have given our own flawed/terrible prospects.  I'm not writing off a 20 year old with clear and obvious skills before he's even played 82 professional games.  I'm not disputing that he has flaws.  I'm not disputing that some/most Philly fans would prefer he's traded.  I'm not disputing that some media types might think he's only worth Marcus Smart and 1st rounder.  I'm just saying that he's an intriguing prospect with star potential and he's likely a better prospect than any Celtic under the age of 24.   I don't blame people here for starting threads about him daily.  Typically, 20 year old 7 footers with his kind of potential aren't openly available on the trade market.  It's a unique situation.

I'll keep singing this poor old song as long as ignorance here persists.  If folks are offended by me continuing to speak the truth, they can pretend to block me just like Eddie has.

That is all well and good. Honestly the most fascinating part of this to me is how much a fan base has turned on their own rookie 62 games into his career that puts up good raw stats.

It shouldn't surprise you Clay.   Our own fanbase called our starting big (Amir Johnson) "poop" earlier this year.  In previous years, the fanbase constantly ripped on Evan Turner despite the fact he was statistically one of the best players on the team.   Fans are reactionary.  Right now Philly fans just want Embiid playing 30+ minutes, Simmons healthy, and want to see their other bigs traded for equal-value players at positions of need.  It's going to be hard for Philly to get equal value for either Okafor or Noel.  That's likely why neither has been traded yet.

You would agree that turning on a 20 year old with 60+ games under his belt is different than turning on a 30+ middling vet or a reclamation project with a weird personality that was once a top lottery pick right?

There's already people here who want to trade Jaylen Brown and he's only got 11 games under his belt.

That is not really relevant. My point was the overwelming majority of our board has not turned on Brown and definitely will not any point this year. It is pretty unusual how negative the writers and fans are about Okafor as a 20 year old guy coming off all-rookie season. Seems unprecedented.

[TheSundanceKid]

Keep digging Lbrrd. Told you about Okafor's trade value. Let's see what happens when they trade him. Only way you'll admit defeat at this point.

There's still a chance they don't trade him at all.   I wouldn't trade him if I had him... certainly not for the laughable offers we see on Celticsblog threads.

It's 63 games into a 20 year old's career in which he's averaging 21 points, 7 rebounds and 2 blocks per 36 minutes and people are acting like he's a finished product.  It's hilarious.

Well that's why I want the Celtics to trade for him. It would be a ripoff and I personally don't think Philly can do anything about it. If they want to keep him. That's great, pay him the max. If they don't, then trade for a bag of balls. Only mistake Hinkie made was drafting 3 centers.

Okafor is a value buy right now. I think as Rozier impresses this year his value goes up to that of Okafor, or at least towards it. Then you can start talking about an Okafor for Rozier + pick trade or something like that.

Personally I like the long term fit of Okafor on the Cs. However the other element of it is that in looking for a superstar trade we need pieces that can be perceived to be budding superstars. While Okafor is not viewed that highly by some media outlets and Philly fans, he does seem to have some interest from GMs. IN particular he has been mentioned in previous Cousins and Butler rumours. So we can thing of this from a value perspective as well