In depth analysis of Okafor

[alldaboston]

Okafor having a nice stretch of games recently. 19 pts on 73% shooting against Washington and 18 on 54% against the Hawks. He went up against two top centers in those games as well. I watched a bit of the Hawks game and whilst he was quite slow footed he showed good defensive positioning and had a nice block as well. I'd say he's about where KO was in his 2nd season but with more strength. You could definitely make him a good team defender and one on one he has the strength. He positions himself well to deny drives by the opposition guards.

He and Embiid seem to be rotating games. When Okafor starts he does well, off the bench he seems to have bad games.

Offensively he has some beautiful moves. He'd be the kind of go to guy in the post we would want in the coming years

Edit: in those two games his stats were 22mins, 18.5ppg, 5.5 rpg, 2.0 apg, 62.5% efg, 110.5 Offrtg, 102.9 Defrtg, 33.8% usg and 15.4% ast%
I know it's only 2 games but it's nice to see

are you skipping the last game where was like 2-10 got blocked repeatedly and was benched for Holmes? I really encourage people to read liberty ballers. The majority of fans strongly prefer Noel which should tell you something 🤔

Was that the one against Houston? I didn't include it in the stats as I was just doing the last two games he started. In the Houston game he came off the bench. Not an excuse for bad play necessarily though. I did caveat above saying he plays well when starting but poorly off the bench.

I think part of that is the style he plays. He's a go to kind of player rather than a role player. When he comes off the bench they don't use him as that, instead they use him as a screener, I think he tends to get lost on the court. When he starts it is generally because Embiid isn't playing and that means he can be the go to guy on the team.

I heard the 76ers announcers saying the team is looking to try playing them both together which would be interesting, not sure I see the benefits of that myself.

this is kind of the issue. He is only really effective if he can serve as the focal point of an offense. However he has so many flaws that you will be a bad team if he is the focal point of your offense.

Certainly that is something he needs to adapt. He isn't always going to be getting the ball. Further, in our offense it's all about finding the best option on each play. Having said that I believe that is something that can be learnt with relative ease if you have trust in your teammates, and if he came to the Celtics I believe he'd have that trust.

What he can provide this team is a serious inside scorer who would demand double teams consistently in games. This would open the game up for our guards as well. Now it's obviously a trade off, we lose some of our dynamic run and gun style but that is a compromise on both sides, Okafor would need to accept that we play at a higher pace and adjust his contributions to that. But I don't think it can be argued that an interior presence would be great for our playoff hopes when things slow down into the half court.

People also have concerns on his attitude which I completely understand. I think that coming onto a veteran team that can help give him the experiences he wants (winning, playoffs, competition) would make him more humble in his work and encourage him to get the best from himself.

Here are some actual quote from Philly fans about OKafor from their game thread against Houston. Please note this is not me cherry picking this is the general vibe and didn't really see a single positive statement about him.

You're not proving anything by quoting 76ers fans on Okafor.  It's a frustrated fanbase filled with a bunch of people who can't agree with each other on any of their prospects.  Some love Noel.  Some love Okafor.  Some hate Noel. Some hate Okafor.  They all love Embiid and that's about it.   And they all cherish Sam Hinkie for bringing them the gift of one of the brightest futures any team in the league has.  Beyond that, it's a contentious group that can't decide how they want to build around their superstar prospects.  You'll find just as many people on Celtic forums dumping on Marcus Smart or Jaylen Brown... two players Jahlil Okafor remains a better prospect than.  Just yesterday we had fans claiming Jaylen Brown's defense was garbage and that Marcus Smart was still a bricklaying chucker.  It is what it is.  For the time being, Okafor is a superior prospect to any young prospect on the Celtics... warts and all.

Not according to your friends over at ESPN:

But it also confirms that Marcus Smart is seen as a better prospect than Noel or Okafor

How a player is "seen" isn't always reality.  That was the entire point of that post.  Yes, Julius Randle is seen as a better player than Smart, but I still have Smart over Randle.  Yes, Smart and Randle are seen as better than Okafor, but I still have Okafor over both of them.  I literally said that:

It absolutely confirms that Julius Randle is now seen as a better prospect than Marcus Smart.  But it also confirms that Marcus Smart is seen as a better prospect than Noel or Okafor...

Luckily neither matters... as I still personally feel Smart is a better prospect than Randle barely.  And I'd take Okafor over both of them.   

Kind of scummy for you to take my quote out of context.   How a player is "seen" by the masses and how I see the player are two very different things.   My opinion matters more.

I mean, this is rather ironic, because you've taken my quotes out of context plenty of times before.

I don't recall ever pulling a quote of yours from a different thread.  I seriously doubt I've ever done that.  Aside from a couple rare instances, I can't keep track of what one person says from thread to thread... so it's highly, highly doubful I've ever seen something you've written and tried to disprove it by using a quote of yours from an unrelated thread.

I meant my quotes in that specific thread that we were discussing in...which i guess is kinda the opposite of what i actually did here. lol.

[tankcity!]

Keep digging Lbrrd. Told you about Okafor's trade value. Let's see what happens when they trade him. Only way you'll admit defeat at this point.

[Eddie20]

Okafor having a nice stretch of games recently. 19 pts on 73% shooting against Washington and 18 on 54% against the Hawks. He went up against two top centers in those games as well. I watched a bit of the Hawks game and whilst he was quite slow footed he showed good defensive positioning and had a nice block as well. I'd say he's about where KO was in his 2nd season but with more strength. You could definitely make him a good team defender and one on one he has the strength. He positions himself well to deny drives by the opposition guards.

He and Embiid seem to be rotating games. When Okafor starts he does well, off the bench he seems to have bad games.

Offensively he has some beautiful moves. He'd be the kind of go to guy in the post we would want in the coming years

Edit: in those two games his stats were 22mins, 18.5ppg, 5.5 rpg, 2.0 apg, 62.5% efg, 110.5 Offrtg, 102.9 Defrtg, 33.8% usg and 15.4% ast%
I know it's only 2 games but it's nice to see

are you skipping the last game where was like 2-10 got blocked repeatedly and was benched for Holmes? I really encourage people to read liberty ballers. The majority of fans strongly prefer Noel which should tell you something 🤔

Was that the one against Houston? I didn't include it in the stats as I was just doing the last two games he started. In the Houston game he came off the bench. Not an excuse for bad play necessarily though. I did caveat above saying he plays well when starting but poorly off the bench.

I think part of that is the style he plays. He's a go to kind of player rather than a role player. When he comes off the bench they don't use him as that, instead they use him as a screener, I think he tends to get lost on the court. When he starts it is generally because Embiid isn't playing and that means he can be the go to guy on the team.

I heard the 76ers announcers saying the team is looking to try playing them both together which would be interesting, not sure I see the benefits of that myself.

this is kind of the issue. He is only really effective if he can serve as the focal point of an offense. However he has so many flaws that you will be a bad team if he is the focal point of your offense.

Certainly that is something he needs to adapt. He isn't always going to be getting the ball. Further, in our offense it's all about finding the best option on each play. Having said that I believe that is something that can be learnt with relative ease if you have trust in your teammates, and if he came to the Celtics I believe he'd have that trust.

What he can provide this team is a serious inside scorer who would demand double teams consistently in games. This would open the game up for our guards as well. Now it's obviously a trade off, we lose some of our dynamic run and gun style but that is a compromise on both sides, Okafor would need to accept that we play at a higher pace and adjust his contributions to that. But I don't think it can be argued that an interior presence would be great for our playoff hopes when things slow down into the half court.

People also have concerns on his attitude which I completely understand. I think that coming onto a veteran team that can help give him the experiences he wants (winning, playoffs, competition) would make him more humble in his work and encourage him to get the best from himself.

Here are some actual quote from Philly fans about OKafor from their game thread against Houston. Please note this is not me cherry picking this is the general vibe and didn't really see a single positive statement about him.

You're not proving anything by quoting 76ers fans on Okafor.  It's a frustrated fanbase filled with a bunch of people who can't agree with each other on any of their prospects.  Some love Noel.  Some love Okafor.  Some hate Noel. Some hate Okafor.  They all love Embiid and that's about it.   And they all cherish Sam Hinkie for bringing them the gift of one of the brightest futures any team in the league has.  Beyond that, it's a contentious group that can't decide how they want to build around their superstar prospects.  You'll find just as many people on Celtic forums dumping on Marcus Smart or Jaylen Brown... two players Jahlil Okafor remains a better prospect than.  Just yesterday we had fans claiming Jaylen Brown's defense was garbage and that Marcus Smart was still a bricklaying chucker.  It is what it is.  For the time being, Okafor is a superior prospect to any young prospect on the Celtics... warts and all.

Not according to your friends over at ESPN:

But it also confirms that Marcus Smart is seen as a better prospect than Noel or Okafor

How a player is "seen" isn't always reality.  That was the entire point of that post.  Yes, Julius Randle is seen as a better player than Smart, but I still have Smart over Randle.  Yes, Smart and Randle are seen as better than Okafor, but I still have Okafor over both of them.  I literally said that:

It absolutely confirms that Julius Randle is now seen as a better prospect than Marcus Smart.  But it also confirms that Marcus Smart is seen as a better prospect than Noel or Okafor...

Luckily neither matters... as I still personally feel Smart is a better prospect than Randle barely.  And I'd take Okafor over both of them.   

Kind of scummy for you to take my quote out of context.   How a player is "seen" by the masses and how I see the player are two very different things.   My opinion matters more.

I mean, this is rather ironic, because you've taken my quotes out of context plenty of times before.

Going down with the ship eh LB? What were his per 36 numbers when he fouled out in 20 minutes? Guess he would have got 11 fouls?

Here are some more goodies

Take Holmes for example. Horrible rebounder last year. He noticeably has changed his game up to improve his defensive rebounding and the stats show. In this short season he is up to 25% defensive rebounding rate, up from 11%, and his block rate has only dropped a tad (.2%). Okafor, on the other hand, has switched from playing starters to back ups, has dropped considerably in his obpm, rebounding percentage, free throw percentage, etc. I have no clue how his dbpm has increased cause it literally looks like he has no idea where to stand on defense. He has shown zero signs of improvement in any facet of his game, and his "generational" post moves has given a shooting percentage of 38.7% percent from 3-10 feet, down from 46.3%. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt on the last set of stats cause of his injury, but acting like this is some echo chamber bs is preposterous. If someone that was picked 3rd overall hasn’t shown any improvement in any facet he’s gonna get crap.

"I’m only moving Noel if I get a great offer… I was hoping that moving forward with Okafor as the backup center would be OK, i’m starting to lose faith in that. I know it’s early, but the "rust" theory is bull****, it’s been several weeks since he’s been playing and practicing, and he’s regressing on offense and defense"

"Some of Okafor’s proponents have held up his DBPM as a measure of improvement on that end, but I ask of them, what of his OBPM, which is -4.1 (down from 2.6 last season)? If Okafor isn’t going to be efficient or good offensively, he essentially provides incredibly minimal value to a basketball team.

I know his best case scenario is he basically is an elite offensive player who can provide adequate defense in stretches, but he’s so far away from both of those that it’s hard to see through the tunnel."

"Like it or not, the team is committed to Okafor and is going to let Noel walk or trade him. That’s just the reality of the situation.
Oak is on a rookie contract and even if he is just a bench guy, he can still contribute. It doesn’t matter if he was the 3rd pick or the 30th pick. he’s on the team and not leaving. "

" Surely Okafor is supposed to be a building block and he’s been really anything but since he’s been here. If he showed something, like any signs of life, I’d be willing to hold onto him. It seems weird to hold those players to the standard we should expect from a 3rd pick, especially from a decent draft class."

"It’s hilarious how quickly Okafor went from franchise player, to pretty good starter, to starter, to power 6th man/Kanter type, to "let’s get back anything we can for him"."

Well it's a real shame those random sixers fans aren't running the team, because we could probably acquire Okafor for far cheaper than he's worth.

You are ignoring the larger post that you really can't find 76ers fans that think Okafor is some big future star, at least not ones that post on that site (and they seem pretty knowledgable and regularly are basing their arguments on advanced stats). We have many people here that actually still think Smart will be a star or that Brown will grow into one. We haven't had a guy the fanbase gave up on like that in his second year anytime I can remember (aside from late round guys like Young and Melo). Are you actually watching the games or just looking at box scores? All the things these guys mentions is stuff that wont really show up in a box score (aside from +-).

This is what happens when a guy doesn't know the actual game basis their entire conclusion off stats. It's the fantasy basketball geek paradox. Things that don't translate to a box score are dismissed because they don't really know the nuances of the game. Hence as to why a guy like Smart, who does so many little things to win, is underrated. While a player like Okafor, who does none of the little things to win, is overrated.

[SHAQATTACK]

Danny is quietly waiting out the Boogie 's exit .

I don't see him using bullets on anybody that does significantly impact the C's in the short term

[LarBrd33]

Okafor having a nice stretch of games recently. 19 pts on 73% shooting against Washington and 18 on 54% against the Hawks. He went up against two top centers in those games as well. I watched a bit of the Hawks game and whilst he was quite slow footed he showed good defensive positioning and had a nice block as well. I'd say he's about where KO was in his 2nd season but with more strength. You could definitely make him a good team defender and one on one he has the strength. He positions himself well to deny drives by the opposition guards.

He and Embiid seem to be rotating games. When Okafor starts he does well, off the bench he seems to have bad games.

Offensively he has some beautiful moves. He'd be the kind of go to guy in the post we would want in the coming years

Edit: in those two games his stats were 22mins, 18.5ppg, 5.5 rpg, 2.0 apg, 62.5% efg, 110.5 Offrtg, 102.9 Defrtg, 33.8% usg and 15.4% ast%
I know it's only 2 games but it's nice to see

are you skipping the last game where was like 2-10 got blocked repeatedly and was benched for Holmes? I really encourage people to read liberty ballers. The majority of fans strongly prefer Noel which should tell you something 🤔

Was that the one against Houston? I didn't include it in the stats as I was just doing the last two games he started. In the Houston game he came off the bench. Not an excuse for bad play necessarily though. I did caveat above saying he plays well when starting but poorly off the bench.

I think part of that is the style he plays. He's a go to kind of player rather than a role player. When he comes off the bench they don't use him as that, instead they use him as a screener, I think he tends to get lost on the court. When he starts it is generally because Embiid isn't playing and that means he can be the go to guy on the team.

I heard the 76ers announcers saying the team is looking to try playing them both together which would be interesting, not sure I see the benefits of that myself.

this is kind of the issue. He is only really effective if he can serve as the focal point of an offense. However he has so many flaws that you will be a bad team if he is the focal point of your offense.

Certainly that is something he needs to adapt. He isn't always going to be getting the ball. Further, in our offense it's all about finding the best option on each play. Having said that I believe that is something that can be learnt with relative ease if you have trust in your teammates, and if he came to the Celtics I believe he'd have that trust.

What he can provide this team is a serious inside scorer who would demand double teams consistently in games. This would open the game up for our guards as well. Now it's obviously a trade off, we lose some of our dynamic run and gun style but that is a compromise on both sides, Okafor would need to accept that we play at a higher pace and adjust his contributions to that. But I don't think it can be argued that an interior presence would be great for our playoff hopes when things slow down into the half court.

People also have concerns on his attitude which I completely understand. I think that coming onto a veteran team that can help give him the experiences he wants (winning, playoffs, competition) would make him more humble in his work and encourage him to get the best from himself.

Here are some actual quote from Philly fans about OKafor from their game thread against Houston. Please note this is not me cherry picking this is the general vibe and didn't really see a single positive statement about him.

You're not proving anything by quoting 76ers fans on Okafor.  It's a frustrated fanbase filled with a bunch of people who can't agree with each other on any of their prospects.  Some love Noel.  Some love Okafor.  Some hate Noel. Some hate Okafor.  They all love Embiid and that's about it.   And they all cherish Sam Hinkie for bringing them the gift of one of the brightest futures any team in the league has.  Beyond that, it's a contentious group that can't decide how they want to build around their superstar prospects.  You'll find just as many people on Celtic forums dumping on Marcus Smart or Jaylen Brown... two players Jahlil Okafor remains a better prospect than.  Just yesterday we had fans claiming Jaylen Brown's defense was garbage and that Marcus Smart was still a bricklaying chucker.  It is what it is.  For the time being, Okafor is a superior prospect to any young prospect on the Celtics... warts and all.

Not according to your friends over at ESPN:

But it also confirms that Marcus Smart is seen as a better prospect than Noel or Okafor

How a player is "seen" isn't always reality.  That was the entire point of that post.  Yes, Julius Randle is seen as a better player than Smart, but I still have Smart over Randle.  Yes, Smart and Randle are seen as better than Okafor, but I still have Okafor over both of them.  I literally said that:

It absolutely confirms that Julius Randle is now seen as a better prospect than Marcus Smart.  But it also confirms that Marcus Smart is seen as a better prospect than Noel or Okafor...

Luckily neither matters... as I still personally feel Smart is a better prospect than Randle barely.  And I'd take Okafor over both of them.   

Kind of scummy for you to take my quote out of context.   How a player is "seen" by the masses and how I see the player are two very different things.   My opinion matters more.

I mean, this is rather ironic, because you've taken my quotes out of context plenty of times before.

Going down with the ship eh LB? What were his per 36 numbers when he fouled out in 20 minutes? Guess he would have got 11 fouls?

Here are some more goodies

Take Holmes for example. Horrible rebounder last year. He noticeably has changed his game up to improve his defensive rebounding and the stats show. In this short season he is up to 25% defensive rebounding rate, up from 11%, and his block rate has only dropped a tad (.2%). Okafor, on the other hand, has switched from playing starters to back ups, has dropped considerably in his obpm, rebounding percentage, free throw percentage, etc. I have no clue how his dbpm has increased cause it literally looks like he has no idea where to stand on defense. He has shown zero signs of improvement in any facet of his game, and his "generational" post moves has given a shooting percentage of 38.7% percent from 3-10 feet, down from 46.3%. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt on the last set of stats cause of his injury, but acting like this is some echo chamber bs is preposterous. If someone that was picked 3rd overall hasn’t shown any improvement in any facet he’s gonna get crap.

"I’m only moving Noel if I get a great offer… I was hoping that moving forward with Okafor as the backup center would be OK, i’m starting to lose faith in that. I know it’s early, but the "rust" theory is bull****, it’s been several weeks since he’s been playing and practicing, and he’s regressing on offense and defense"

"Some of Okafor’s proponents have held up his DBPM as a measure of improvement on that end, but I ask of them, what of his OBPM, which is -4.1 (down from 2.6 last season)? If Okafor isn’t going to be efficient or good offensively, he essentially provides incredibly minimal value to a basketball team.

I know his best case scenario is he basically is an elite offensive player who can provide adequate defense in stretches, but he’s so far away from both of those that it’s hard to see through the tunnel."

"Like it or not, the team is committed to Okafor and is going to let Noel walk or trade him. That’s just the reality of the situation.
Oak is on a rookie contract and even if he is just a bench guy, he can still contribute. It doesn’t matter if he was the 3rd pick or the 30th pick. he’s on the team and not leaving. "

" Surely Okafor is supposed to be a building block and he’s been really anything but since he’s been here. If he showed something, like any signs of life, I’d be willing to hold onto him. It seems weird to hold those players to the standard we should expect from a 3rd pick, especially from a decent draft class."

"It’s hilarious how quickly Okafor went from franchise player, to pretty good starter, to starter, to power 6th man/Kanter type, to "let’s get back anything we can for him"."

Well it's a real shame those random sixers fans aren't running the team, because we could probably acquire Okafor for far cheaper than he's worth.

You are ignoring the larger post that you really can't find 76ers fans that think Okafor is some big future star, at least not ones that post on that site (and they seem pretty knowledgable and regularly are basing their arguments on advanced stats). We have many people here that actually still think Smart will be a star or that Brown will grow into one. We haven't had a guy the fanbase gave up on like that in his second year anytime I can remember (aside from late round guys like Young and Melo). Are you actually watching the games or just looking at box scores? All the things these guys mentions is stuff that wont really show up in a box score (aside from +-).

This is what happens when a guy doesn't know the actual game basis their entire conclusion off stats. It's the fantasy basketball geek paradox. Things that don't translate to a box score are dismissed because they don't really know the nuances of the game. Hence as to why a guy like Smart, who does so many little things to win, is underrated. While a player like Okafor, who does none of the little things to win, is overrated.

This is what happens when a jealous fanbase frustrated at their failed attempts to acquire a potential star starts selling themselves on him being a failure 63 games into the 20 year old's career.  It's the equivalent of a girl rejecting you and you responding, "I didn't want to go out with her anyways... she's way too fat for me".  Bottom line.

[celticsclay]

Okafor having a nice stretch of games recently. 19 pts on 73% shooting against Washington and 18 on 54% against the Hawks. He went up against two top centers in those games as well. I watched a bit of the Hawks game and whilst he was quite slow footed he showed good defensive positioning and had a nice block as well. I'd say he's about where KO was in his 2nd season but with more strength. You could definitely make him a good team defender and one on one he has the strength. He positions himself well to deny drives by the opposition guards.

He and Embiid seem to be rotating games. When Okafor starts he does well, off the bench he seems to have bad games.

Offensively he has some beautiful moves. He'd be the kind of go to guy in the post we would want in the coming years

Edit: in those two games his stats were 22mins, 18.5ppg, 5.5 rpg, 2.0 apg, 62.5% efg, 110.5 Offrtg, 102.9 Defrtg, 33.8% usg and 15.4% ast%
I know it's only 2 games but it's nice to see

are you skipping the last game where was like 2-10 got blocked repeatedly and was benched for Holmes? I really encourage people to read liberty ballers. The majority of fans strongly prefer Noel which should tell you something 🤔

Was that the one against Houston? I didn't include it in the stats as I was just doing the last two games he started. In the Houston game he came off the bench. Not an excuse for bad play necessarily though. I did caveat above saying he plays well when starting but poorly off the bench.

I think part of that is the style he plays. He's a go to kind of player rather than a role player. When he comes off the bench they don't use him as that, instead they use him as a screener, I think he tends to get lost on the court. When he starts it is generally because Embiid isn't playing and that means he can be the go to guy on the team.

I heard the 76ers announcers saying the team is looking to try playing them both together which would be interesting, not sure I see the benefits of that myself.

this is kind of the issue. He is only really effective if he can serve as the focal point of an offense. However he has so many flaws that you will be a bad team if he is the focal point of your offense.

Certainly that is something he needs to adapt. He isn't always going to be getting the ball. Further, in our offense it's all about finding the best option on each play. Having said that I believe that is something that can be learnt with relative ease if you have trust in your teammates, and if he came to the Celtics I believe he'd have that trust.

What he can provide this team is a serious inside scorer who would demand double teams consistently in games. This would open the game up for our guards as well. Now it's obviously a trade off, we lose some of our dynamic run and gun style but that is a compromise on both sides, Okafor would need to accept that we play at a higher pace and adjust his contributions to that. But I don't think it can be argued that an interior presence would be great for our playoff hopes when things slow down into the half court.

People also have concerns on his attitude which I completely understand. I think that coming onto a veteran team that can help give him the experiences he wants (winning, playoffs, competition) would make him more humble in his work and encourage him to get the best from himself.

Here are some actual quote from Philly fans about OKafor from their game thread against Houston. Please note this is not me cherry picking this is the general vibe and didn't really see a single positive statement about him.

You're not proving anything by quoting 76ers fans on Okafor.  It's a frustrated fanbase filled with a bunch of people who can't agree with each other on any of their prospects.  Some love Noel.  Some love Okafor.  Some hate Noel. Some hate Okafor.  They all love Embiid and that's about it.   And they all cherish Sam Hinkie for bringing them the gift of one of the brightest futures any team in the league has.  Beyond that, it's a contentious group that can't decide how they want to build around their superstar prospects.  You'll find just as many people on Celtic forums dumping on Marcus Smart or Jaylen Brown... two players Jahlil Okafor remains a better prospect than.  Just yesterday we had fans claiming Jaylen Brown's defense was garbage and that Marcus Smart was still a bricklaying chucker.  It is what it is.  For the time being, Okafor is a superior prospect to any young prospect on the Celtics... warts and all.

Not according to your friends over at ESPN:

But it also confirms that Marcus Smart is seen as a better prospect than Noel or Okafor

How a player is "seen" isn't always reality.  That was the entire point of that post.  Yes, Julius Randle is seen as a better player than Smart, but I still have Smart over Randle.  Yes, Smart and Randle are seen as better than Okafor, but I still have Okafor over both of them.  I literally said that:

It absolutely confirms that Julius Randle is now seen as a better prospect than Marcus Smart.  But it also confirms that Marcus Smart is seen as a better prospect than Noel or Okafor...

Luckily neither matters... as I still personally feel Smart is a better prospect than Randle barely.  And I'd take Okafor over both of them.   

Kind of scummy for you to take my quote out of context.   How a player is "seen" by the masses and how I see the player are two very different things.   My opinion matters more.

I mean, this is rather ironic, because you've taken my quotes out of context plenty of times before.

Going down with the ship eh LB? What were his per 36 numbers when he fouled out in 20 minutes? Guess he would have got 11 fouls?

Here are some more goodies

Take Holmes for example. Horrible rebounder last year. He noticeably has changed his game up to improve his defensive rebounding and the stats show. In this short season he is up to 25% defensive rebounding rate, up from 11%, and his block rate has only dropped a tad (.2%). Okafor, on the other hand, has switched from playing starters to back ups, has dropped considerably in his obpm, rebounding percentage, free throw percentage, etc. I have no clue how his dbpm has increased cause it literally looks like he has no idea where to stand on defense. He has shown zero signs of improvement in any facet of his game, and his "generational" post moves has given a shooting percentage of 38.7% percent from 3-10 feet, down from 46.3%. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt on the last set of stats cause of his injury, but acting like this is some echo chamber bs is preposterous. If someone that was picked 3rd overall hasn’t shown any improvement in any facet he’s gonna get crap.

"I’m only moving Noel if I get a great offer… I was hoping that moving forward with Okafor as the backup center would be OK, i’m starting to lose faith in that. I know it’s early, but the "rust" theory is bull****, it’s been several weeks since he’s been playing and practicing, and he’s regressing on offense and defense"

"Some of Okafor’s proponents have held up his DBPM as a measure of improvement on that end, but I ask of them, what of his OBPM, which is -4.1 (down from 2.6 last season)? If Okafor isn’t going to be efficient or good offensively, he essentially provides incredibly minimal value to a basketball team.

I know his best case scenario is he basically is an elite offensive player who can provide adequate defense in stretches, but he’s so far away from both of those that it’s hard to see through the tunnel."

"Like it or not, the team is committed to Okafor and is going to let Noel walk or trade him. That’s just the reality of the situation.
Oak is on a rookie contract and even if he is just a bench guy, he can still contribute. It doesn’t matter if he was the 3rd pick or the 30th pick. he’s on the team and not leaving. "

" Surely Okafor is supposed to be a building block and he’s been really anything but since he’s been here. If he showed something, like any signs of life, I’d be willing to hold onto him. It seems weird to hold those players to the standard we should expect from a 3rd pick, especially from a decent draft class."

"It’s hilarious how quickly Okafor went from franchise player, to pretty good starter, to starter, to power 6th man/Kanter type, to "let’s get back anything we can for him"."

Well it's a real shame those random sixers fans aren't running the team, because we could probably acquire Okafor for far cheaper than he's worth.

You are ignoring the larger post that you really can't find 76ers fans that think Okafor is some big future star, at least not ones that post on that site (and they seem pretty knowledgable and regularly are basing their arguments on advanced stats). We have many people here that actually still think Smart will be a star or that Brown will grow into one. We haven't had a guy the fanbase gave up on like that in his second year anytime I can remember (aside from late round guys like Young and Melo). Are you actually watching the games or just looking at box scores? All the things these guys mentions is stuff that wont really show up in a box score (aside from +-).

This is what happens when a guy doesn't know the actual game basis their entire conclusion off stats. It's the fantasy basketball geek paradox. Things that don't translate to a box score are dismissed because they don't really know the nuances of the game. Hence as to why a guy like Smart, who does so many little things to win, is underrated. While a player like Okafor, who does none of the little things to win, is overrated.

Did you unblock LB or something?

[alldaboston]

Did you unblock LB or something?

i believe you can see posts from someone you've blocked if they're quoted by someone else who you havent blocked.

[LarBrd33]

Keep digging Lbrrd. Told you about Okafor's trade value. Let's see what happens when they trade him. Only way you'll admit defeat at this point.

There's still a chance they don't trade him at all.   I wouldn't trade him if I had him... certainly not for the laughable offers we see on Celticsblog threads.

It's 63 games into a 20 year old's career in which he's averaging 21 points, 7 rebounds and 2 blocks per 36 minutes and people are acting like he's a finished product.  It's hilarious.

[D Dub]

Keep digging Lbrrd. Told you about Okafor's trade value. Let's see what happens when they trade him. Only way you'll admit defeat at this point.

There's still a chance they don't trade him at all.   I wouldn't trade him if I had him... certainly not for the laughable offers we see on Celticsblog threads.

It's 63 games into a 20 year old's career in which he's averaging 21 points, 7 rebounds and 2 blocks per 36 minutes and people are acting like he's a finished product.  It's hilarious.

No, that's not it. 

The point is that you are the only person in the basketball universe who feels Okafor has more value than Smart right now. 

Eddie might be right, if you aren't valuing all the little things Marcus does to effect winning. 

[celticsclay]

Keep digging Lbrrd. Told you about Okafor's trade value. Let's see what happens when they trade him. Only way you'll admit defeat at this point.

There's still a chance they don't trade him at all.   I wouldn't trade him if I had him... certainly not for the laughable offers we see on Celticsblog threads. Philly threads

It's 63 games into a 20 year old's career in which he's averaging 21 points, 7 rebounds and 2 blocks per 36 minutes and people are acting like he's a finished product.  It's hilarious.

You realize these are 76ers fans. Is it too difficult for you to write that you have higher opinion of Okafor than hardcore fans that watch his every game?

[LarBrd33]

Keep digging Lbrrd. Told you about Okafor's trade value. Let's see what happens when they trade him. Only way you'll admit defeat at this point.

There's still a chance they don't trade him at all.   I wouldn't trade him if I had him... certainly not for the laughable offers we see on Celticsblog threads.

It's 63 games into a 20 year old's career in which he's averaging 21 points, 7 rebounds and 2 blocks per 36 minutes and people are acting like he's a finished product.  It's hilarious.

No, that's not it. 

The point is that you are the only person in the basketball universe who feels Okafor has more value than Smart right now. 

I never claimed to know whether or not Okafor has "more value" (meaning trade value?) than Marcus Smart.   Nobody has any idea what kind of offers Boston has received for Smart and how that compares to the offers Philly has received for Okafor.  We have some media speculation.  There's some questionable rumors.  Beyond that, we're in the dark.  What I'm merely saying that Okafor is a superior prospect to any Celtic under the age of 24 (Jackson, Mickey, Rozier, Smart, Young and Brown)... Okafor is a better prospect than all of them.  That could change if Okafor fails to show improvement and one of the young guys (like Jaylen Brown) shows significant progress.

[TheSundanceKid]

Ok so bickering aside. Celticsclay those quotes you have do tell me that Philly fans don't like Okafor. But go through our game threads and you'll find many smart haters there. Or KO haters or Bradley haters on any given day. Did these people say the same things when Okafor led them to a win against Washington?

He is nowhere near a finished product. Cousins is a finished product. But there's a huge difference between the asking price for each player. It is completely believable that Okafor could reach star status if he put in the work.

If I were DA I'd try and find a 3 way trade that would give the 6ers a starting SF like Rudy Gay, send Okafor to us, Zeller and a pick to Sac

[LarBrd33]

Ok so bickering aside. Celticsclay those quotes you have do tell me that Philly fans don't like Okafor.

#1 - What some fans think doesn't matter.

#2 - It took me all of 3 seconds to go on Reddit and find some positive Okafor comments

Gotta keep this guy.

He reminds me of Harden in that he can size up the defender and the very slightest advantage he will take advantage. You can't stay in front of this man because his spin move is elite. If he perfects that running-away-from-the-hoop one handed push shot and a 15 foot jumpshot then those are the only 3 moves he will ever need. And he is 20 years old!

This is what Nokafors simply don't understand. When Jah is 24 years old, you are going to have to seriously, seriously game plan against him or he will eat you alive. His defense will improve and he will be a massive weapon. That will make Joel even better because centers will have to foul both of them. Put a knife in the heart of their defense and watch Simmons drive to the rack easier and watch that open up his passing for open 3's.

We need Okafor.

I think most Philly fans at this point are just thrilled to have a couple superstar prospects in Embiid and Simmons and are anxious to trade for positional balance built around those two guys.  Okafor and Noel have become expendable in the eyes of most Philly fans.  Kind of like how Isaiah Thomas became "expendable" on the Suns due to their glut of point guards.

And yes, you're right in that you can go to basically any Celtic forum and find someone dumping on Boston's young prospects.  For instance, it took me 3 seconds to find a Celtic fan wholesale taking a crap on them by comparing them to Jahlil Okafor:

What I'm merely saying that Okafor is a superior prospect to any Celtic under the age of 24 (Jackson, Mickey, Rozier, Smart, Young and Brown)... Okafor is a better prospect than all of them.  That could change if Okafor fails to show improvement and one of the young guys (like Jaylen Brown) shows significant progress.

[celticsclay]

Ok so bickering aside. Celticsclay those quotes you have do tell me that Philly fans don't like Okafor.

#1 - What some fans think doesn't matter.

#2 - It took me all of 3 seconds to go on Reddit and find some positive Okafor comments

Gotta keep this guy.

He reminds me of Harden in that he can size up the defender and the very slightest advantage he will take advantage. You can't stay in front of this man because his spin move is elite. If he perfects that running-away-from-the-hoop one handed push shot and a 15 foot jumpshot then those are the only 3 moves he will ever need. And he is 20 years old!

This is what Nokafors simply don't understand. When Jah is 24 years old, you are going to have to seriously, seriously game plan against him or he will eat you alive. His defense will improve and he will be a massive weapon. That will make Joel even better because centers will have to foul both of them. Put a knife in the heart of their defense and watch Simmons drive to the rack easier and watch that open up his passing for open 3's.

We need Okafor.

I think most Philly fans at this point are just thrilled to have a couple superstar prospects in Embiid and Simmons and are anxious to trade for positional balance built around those two guys.  Okafor and Noel have become expendable in the eyes of most Philly fans.  Kind of like how Isaiah Thomas became "expendable" on the Suns due to their glut of point guards.

And yes, you're right in that you can go to basically any Celtic forum and find someone dumping on Boston's young prospects.  For instance, it took me 3 seconds to find a Celtic fan wholesale taking a crap on them by comparing them to Jahlil Okafor:

What I'm merely saying that Okafor is a superior prospect to any Celtic under the age of 24 (Jackson, Mickey, Rozier, Smart, Young and Brown)... Okafor is a better prospect than all of them.  That could change if Okafor fails to show improvement and one of the young guys (like Jaylen Brown) shows significant progress.

This is extremely dishonest. I have been clear from the entire debate here that I am quoting the majority of Philly fans and their sentiment. Of course there are a few people that are still positive about him here and there. For ever fan that thinks he is a star there is one that thinks he should be behind holmes on the depth chart. Overall, the sentiment seems to be that he needs to fix his defense significantly to be a serious bench player. If you think I am cherry picking please go to these threads yourself to just get a feel for it

Here are their two most recent articles analyzing him
http://www.libertyballers.com/2016/11/8/13559540/jahlil-okafor-lack-of-defensive-awareness-appalling-duke-nba-nerlens-noel-center-sixers-76ers-embiid
http://www.libertyballers.com/2016/10/20/13326618/jahlil-okafor-sixers-nerlens-noel-trade-jeffrey-wright-is-a-good-actor

LB I'll add, as I have told you before, it is fine if you like Okafor more than the average fan or the average Philly fans. Everyone has players they like. I do take issue when you start misrepresenting these other fans viewpoints. It is not a debatable point that the majority sentiment among 76er fans is that Okafor's future is a scoring big off the bench (or worse).
They watch this guy all the time and have soured on him.

[LarBrd33]

Ok so bickering aside. Celticsclay those quotes you have do tell me that Philly fans don't like Okafor.

#1 - What some fans think doesn't matter.

#2 - It took me all of 3 seconds to go on Reddit and find some positive Okafor comments

Gotta keep this guy.

He reminds me of Harden in that he can size up the defender and the very slightest advantage he will take advantage. You can't stay in front of this man because his spin move is elite. If he perfects that running-away-from-the-hoop one handed push shot and a 15 foot jumpshot then those are the only 3 moves he will ever need. And he is 20 years old!

This is what Nokafors simply don't understand. When Jah is 24 years old, you are going to have to seriously, seriously game plan against him or he will eat you alive. His defense will improve and he will be a massive weapon. That will make Joel even better because centers will have to foul both of them. Put a knife in the heart of their defense and watch Simmons drive to the rack easier and watch that open up his passing for open 3's.

We need Okafor.

I think most Philly fans at this point are just thrilled to have a couple superstar prospects in Embiid and Simmons and are anxious to trade for positional balance built around those two guys.  Okafor and Noel have become expendable in the eyes of most Philly fans.  Kind of like how Isaiah Thomas became "expendable" on the Suns due to their glut of point guards.

And yes, you're right in that you can go to basically any Celtic forum and find someone dumping on Boston's young prospects.  For instance, it took me 3 seconds to find a Celtic fan wholesale taking a crap on them by comparing them to Jahlil Okafor:

What I'm merely saying that Okafor is a superior prospect to any Celtic under the age of 24 (Jackson, Mickey, Rozier, Smart, Young and Brown)... Okafor is a better prospect than all of them.  That could change if Okafor fails to show improvement and one of the young guys (like Jaylen Brown) shows significant progress.

This is extremely dishonest. I have been clear from the entire debate here that I am quoting the majority of Philly fans and their sentiment. Of course there are a few people that are still positive about him here and there. For ever fan that thinks he is a star there is one that thinks he should be behind holmes on the depth chart. Overall, the sentiment seems to be that he needs to fix his defense significantly to be a serious bench player. If you think I am cherry picking please go to these threads yourself to just get a feel for it

Here are their two most recent articles analyzing him
http://www.libertyballers.com/2016/11/8/13559540/jahlil-okafor-lack-of-defensive-awareness-appalling-duke-nba-nerlens-noel-center-sixers-76ers-embiid
http://www.libertyballers.com/2016/10/20/13326618/jahlil-okafor-sixers-nerlens-noel-trade-jeffrey-wright-is-a-good-actor

LB I'll add, as I have told you before, it is fine if you like Okafor more than the average fan or the average Philly fans. Everyone has players they like. I do take issue when you start misrepresenting these other fans viewpoints. It is not a debatable point that the majority sentiment among 76er fans is that Okafor's future is a scoring big off the bench (or worse).
They watch this guy all the time and have soured on him.

It's good to know Philly fans are just as clueless of the majority of Celtic fans.  I guess we're not all that different.