Jaylen Brown #2 on NBA.com Rookie Ladder

[Future Celtics Owner]

Brown showed certain skills in the summer league that got people excited, and those skills have obviously translated to the regular season.  That's why a lot of us were excouraged by the summer league.  It's not about shooting percentages and it's not about dominating scrubs.

This.
He showed the abilities that elite players poses but he was still learning to execute them. Like Rozier had a knock on him for finishing around the hoop, after making amazing plays and drives, Jaylen also showed he needed to work on finishing.....as well as his 3pt shooting.

In my expert opinion...
Jaylen has done 2 things for sure. Both show the rate of progress he is capable of making in such small periods of time:
1. Summer League->Pre-Season:
Jaylen visibly improved his finishing ability around the rim while also now seeing much better defenses

2. Pre-Season->1st 5 games of Regular Season:
Jaylen visibly improved the fluid motion and smooth mechanics of his shot from behind the arc. Many players are completely unable to improve their shot by changing its form during the season.....Jaylen can learn and practice new techniques and then apply them right away.

Very scary and his rate of improvement makes me wonder trade/s will happen when it's obvious he needs to start or play most of the game. Maybe Jaylen could play the 2 more than we thought ala Derozan if he continues the progress. Bradley and Crowder are both on great contracts (Crowder's is longer and better) and both should have huge seasons, Bradley already is.

[hpantazo]

Its still early, but does anyone already think we are fortunate that we didn't trade the #3 pick plus assets for Jimmy Butler on draft night? Jaylen already looks like he can be as good or better than Butler soon, and he's younger and cheaper.

Also, it looks pretty clear that Durant wasn't coming here regardless of whether we had added Butler or not. I'm very pleased so far with how things turned out.

[celticsclay]

Brown showed certain skills in the summer league that got people excited, and those skills have obviously translated to the regular season.  That's why a lot of us were encouraged by the summer league.  It's not about shooting percentages and it's not about dominating scrubs.

You get it. He had things that got us excited and by the end of the summer league was flashing serious potential. This has only translated further in the regular season which is why LB is starting to think he has a brighter future than his Billie Okafor. I am glad everyone is excited

[celticsclay]

Its still early, but does anyone already think we are fortunate that we didn't trade the #3 pick plus assets for Jimmy Butler on draft night? Jaylen already looks like he can be as good or better than Butler soon, and he's younger and cheaper.

Also, it looks pretty clear that Durant wasn't coming here regardless of whether we had added Butler or not. I'm very pleased so far with how things turned out.

Oh yea. We almost ended up with plus size Rickey Davis

[LarBrd33]

Its still early, but does anyone already think we are fortunate that we didn't trade the #3 pick plus assets for Jimmy Butler on draft night? Jaylen already looks like he can be as good or better than Butler soon, and he's younger and cheaper.

Also, it looks pretty clear that Durant wasn't coming here regardless of whether we had added Butler or not. I'm very pleased so far with how things turned out.

The rumor is that we offered Crowder and the pick for Butler and Bulls countered by asking for Crowder, the pick and Avery Bradley.

I'm very glad we didnt' do that.  I think Butler is overrated.  Premium-Brand Ricky Davis.  Bradley and Crowder both individually give you a lot of what Butler does.  Add in that pick, a player who could end up even better than Butler, it would have really upset me.  The only way that trade made sense is if it guaranteed Durant would sign here.   I was 500% opposed to it without such an agreement.

[max215]

Its still early, but does anyone already think we are fortunate that we didn't trade the #3 pick plus assets for Jimmy Butler on draft night? Jaylen already looks like he can be as good or better than Butler soon, and he's younger and cheaper.

Also, it looks pretty clear that Durant wasn't coming here regardless of whether we had added Butler or not. I'm very pleased so far with how things turned out.

The rumor is that we offered Crowder and the pick for Butler and Bulls countered by asking for Crowder, the pick and Avery Bradley.

I'm very glad we didnt' do that.  I think Butler is overrated.  Premium-Brand Ricky Davis.  Bradley and Crowder both individually give you a lot of what Butler does.  Add in that pick, a player who could end up even better than Butler, it would have really upset me.  The only way that trade made sense is if it guaranteed Durant would sign here.   I was 500% opposed to it without such an agreement.

That's not true. The rumor was that they wanted Crowder and that was a deal-breaker.

[LarBrd33]

Its still early, but does anyone already think we are fortunate that we didn't trade the #3 pick plus assets for Jimmy Butler on draft night? Jaylen already looks like he can be as good or better than Butler soon, and he's younger and cheaper.

Also, it looks pretty clear that Durant wasn't coming here regardless of whether we had added Butler or not. I'm very pleased so far with how things turned out.

The rumor is that we offered Crowder and the pick for Butler and Bulls countered by asking for Crowder, the pick and Avery Bradley.

I'm very glad we didnt' do that.  I think Butler is overrated.  Premium-Brand Ricky Davis.  Bradley and Crowder both individually give you a lot of what Butler does.  Add in that pick, a player who could end up even better than Butler, it would have really upset me.  The only way that trade made sense is if it guaranteed Durant would sign here.   I was 500% opposed to it without such an agreement.

That's not true. The rumor was that they wanted Crowder and that was a deal-breaker.

So we offered Bradley and the pick and they wanted Crowder as well? 

I knew it was one or the other.  Either way, I wouldn't have done Crowder + Bradley + the pick for Premium Brand Ricky Davis.  I'm surprised some people here were on board with that.

[Granath]

Its still early, but does anyone already think we are fortunate that we didn't trade the #3 pick plus assets for Jimmy Butler on draft night? Jaylen already looks like he can be as good or better than Butler soon, and he's younger and cheaper.

Also, it looks pretty clear that Durant wasn't coming here regardless of whether we had added Butler or not. I'm very pleased so far with how things turned out.

The rumor is that we offered Crowder and the pick for Butler and Bulls countered by asking for Crowder, the pick and Avery Bradley.

I'm very glad we didnt' do that.  I think Butler is overrated.  Premium-Brand Ricky Davis.  Bradley and Crowder both individually give you a lot of what Butler does.  Add in that pick, a player who could end up even better than Butler, it would have really upset me.  The only way that trade made sense is if it guaranteed Durant would sign here.   I was 500% opposed to it without such an agreement.

Lar, you and I agree on very little but we've both been consistent that the price for Butler was far too high.

[alldaboston]

Its still early, but does anyone already think we are fortunate that we didn't trade the #3 pick plus assets for Jimmy Butler on draft night? Jaylen already looks like he can be as good or better than Butler soon, and he's younger and cheaper.

Also, it looks pretty clear that Durant wasn't coming here regardless of whether we had added Butler or not. I'm very pleased so far with how things turned out.

The rumor is that we offered Crowder and the pick for Butler and Bulls countered by asking for Crowder, the pick and Avery Bradley.

I'm very glad we didnt' do that.  I think Butler is overrated.  Premium-Brand Ricky Davis.  Bradley and Crowder both individually give you a lot of what Butler does.  Add in that pick, a player who could end up even better than Butler, it would have really upset me.  The only way that trade made sense is if it guaranteed Durant would sign here.   I was 500% opposed to it without such an agreement.

That's not true. The rumor was that they wanted Crowder and that was a deal-breaker.

No. I remember reading multiple articles and reports. We offered Crowder and 3 (and maybe 16). Bulls wanted Crowder, 3, 16, and "another rotation player" (speculated to be Bradley). That's when the deal broke down.

edit: here's the thread
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=86555.0

[knuckleballer]

Brown showed certain skills in the summer league that got people excited, and those skills have obviously translated to the regular season.  That's why a lot of us were excouraged by the summer league.  It's not about shooting percentages and it's not about dominating scrubs.

This.
He showed the abilities that elite players poses but he was still learning to execute them. Like Rozier had a knock on him for finishing around the hoop, after making amazing plays and drives, Jaylen also showed he needed to work on finishing.....as well as his 3pt shooting.

In my expert opinion...
Jaylen has done 2 things for sure. Both show the rate of progress he is capable of making in such small periods of time:
1. Summer League->Pre-Season:
Jaylen visibly improved his finishing ability around the rim while also now seeing much better defenses

2. Pre-Season->1st 5 games of Regular Season:
Jaylen visibly improved the fluid motion and smooth mechanics of his shot from behind the arc. Many players are completely unable to improve their shot by changing its form during the season.....Jaylen can learn and practice new techniques and then apply them right away.

Very scary and his rate of improvement makes me wonder trade/s will happen when it's obvious he needs to start or play most of the game. Maybe Jaylen could play the 2 more than we thought ala Derozan if he continues the progress. Bradley and Crowder are both on great contracts (Crowder's is longer and better) and both should have huge seasons, Bradley already is.

I watched one of Jaylen's games late last season.  I wasn't familiar with his game, but the commentators were raving about how much progress he had made during the course of the season.  Remembering that as well as seeing how much he has improved since going against summer league players to going against NBA players has me really excited about him.  I'm guessing due to his athleticism, he never needed to refine his game during high school and he looked very raw last year.  Now he's learning the finer parts of the game and learning fast.

[Celtics18]

https://www.google.com/amp/www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-summer-league-rookie-rankings-brown-simmons-shine-ingram-erratic/amp/?client=safari

He did get off to a slow start, though, and his shooting percentages weren't good. 

The guy who wrote the above must be some kind of homer.

No, that's just a garbage article from a moron writer.  He left Kris Dunn off the list despite the fact he clearly looked the most NBA ready in the Vegas Summer league. Dunn averaged 24 points, 7 rebounds, 3 assists, 2 steals, 1 block with 54% shooting.   Not even listed in the Top 10?  C'mon.  Maybe the article was written by a Celtic lackey who was trying to pump up Jaylen's trade value this Summer when we were still trying to acquire a star.

Anyways, I'm a Jaylen Brown fan.  I've been on board with the pick since Ainge made it.  This is going to end up like one of those classic CelticsBlog situations where I admit some ugly truths (he was bad in Summer league... Jahlil Okafor still probably has a better future despite the big game)  and get labelled a troll or hater.   I don't care about Jaylen's Summerleague performance at this point.   He looks good.  I'm moving on.  Pretend he had a good Summerleague if it makes you feel better.

I'm moving on too.  Pretend he looked terrible in summer league if it makes you feel better.

[Snakehead]

Gotta laugh at this in depth analysis of a tiny sample size for a guy who was getting to the rim whenever he pleased and just happend to miss the lay up in his first few games.  You watch Summer League to see what players can do, what they added (if they are returning), how aggressive they are, etc.

Or you can analyze their box score and wait for Kendrick Brown and Marcus Banks to light it up in the regular season cause wow look at those stats!

[celticsclay]

So everyone now agrees he looked good during summer league ?

[max215]

Its still early, but does anyone already think we are fortunate that we didn't trade the #3 pick plus assets for Jimmy Butler on draft night? Jaylen already looks like he can be as good or better than Butler soon, and he's younger and cheaper.

Also, it looks pretty clear that Durant wasn't coming here regardless of whether we had added Butler or not. I'm very pleased so far with how things turned out.

The rumor is that we offered Crowder and the pick for Butler and Bulls countered by asking for Crowder, the pick and Avery Bradley.

I'm very glad we didnt' do that.  I think Butler is overrated.  Premium-Brand Ricky Davis.  Bradley and Crowder both individually give you a lot of what Butler does.  Add in that pick, a player who could end up even better than Butler, it would have really upset me.  The only way that trade made sense is if it guaranteed Durant would sign here.   I was 500% opposed to it without such an agreement.

That's not true. The rumor was that they wanted Crowder and that was a deal-breaker.

So we offered Bradley and the pick and they wanted Crowder as well? 

I knew it was one or the other.  Either way, I wouldn't have done Crowder + Bradley + the pick for Premium Brand Ricky Davis.  I'm surprised some people here were on board with that.

I think that's essentially how it went down, but my memory could be failing me/reporting could've been wrong. I'm with you on the Butler stuff, though. He would be a marginal upgrade over Bradley/Crowder of the past. If Bradley's improvement is real, they're pretty comparable players.

[LarBrd33]

Gotta laugh at this in depth analysis of a tiny sample size for a guy who was getting to the rim whenever he pleased and just happend to miss the lay up in his first few games. 

DUde this is the last I'll say about this, because people are misunderstanding the point of me bringing up Summer League.

Go back to pre-draft and almost every single blog, mock, draft website, media type, etc was saying this was a 2 player draft (Simmons and to a lesser extent the Ingrams project) with a lot of mediocrity following them.  Almost every single mock had Jaylen going 8th.  The consensus was that he was a raw young prospect who put up awful advanced stats in College, couldn't shoot and and had an uncanny inability to finish at the hoop.  Against College talent, he could bully his way to the basket, but for whatever reason he couldn't finish.  Bill Simmons brought it up several times on his podcast that Jaylen looked like Jeff Green if Jeff Green couldn't finish at the hoop. 

The pick was far from unanimously well-received.  I was for it, but many Celtic fans here were outraged.  Celtic fans at the draft were disgusted.  Wyc was famously booed.  This happened a few months ago. 

In Summer League, he was exactly as billed.  Everything I had heard about him was on display.   As billed, he could get to the basket.   As billed, he was a terrible shooter (22% from three).  As billed, he had an uncanny inability to finish at the basket (32% shooting).  As billed, he was raw and athletic.  He also was surprisingly kind of weak defensively - which was something he was expected to be able to make an immediate impact at off the bench.

Nothing about Jaylen's Summer League disproved the criticism he received when he was labelled a Tier 3 prospect with some potential potential. Nothing about it was surprising.  He looked like the player everyone said he was... raw, athletic, ability to get to the basket, poor shooter, poor finisher, might struggle to get consistent minutes and shot attempts on a team in win-now mode unless his defense improved dramatically enough for him to make an impact on that end off the bench.

Call it a 'great" performance that he put up bulk stats while playing against College-level talent.  The bottom line is that he struggled in all the ways we were told he'd struggle.  Following Summer League, he actually dropped to #9 on the NBA.com Rookie Ladder this thread is based on:  http://www.nba.com/2016/news/features/scott_howard_cooper/07/17/2016-17-rookie-ladder-summer-league-edition-4/

In pre-season he was the second least efficient player on the team above Jerebko.

None of this really mattered, because he was going to a perfect situation where he'd be able to develop over the next several years on a winning team with an excellent coach and quality pro's pros like Jae Crowder to go against daily in practice.  His ceiling was considerably higher by going to Boston as opposed to being drafted by a team like the Kings.

So you can pretend like you're not surprised that he's started the regular season shooting 53%... 44% from three... and just droped 19 points, 5 rebounds, 2 assists, 3 steals and 1 block against LeBron James.   Maybe you're genuinely not surprised by this.  You should be.  Nothing we saw leading up to this season suggested he'd be this efficient.  And I highly, highly doubt he'll continue putting up those shooting percentages.  He can be great long-term, but he still has a really long way to go.  It's undeniably exciting to see him putting up performances like that in the 5th game of his career.  Be appropriately excited about the signs of development... waste less time retroactively pretending that we saw this coming all along.   Nobody did.  The consensus here was that he'd shoot under 40% this season.  Most here didn't even expect to see him get his first start until next year (I think I won the poll by guessing he'd get a start in early December).