Stein: Bucks and Bulls nearing MCW for Snell trade

[BudweiserCeltic]

Hinkie definitely got flak on this board for trading MCW for a future pick.  It isn't that hard to find one of the 50 Sixers threads on here to confirm that.

Again, a person here and there... also, getting flak over trading for a future 1st vs. merely trading MCW are two different things.

If I recall, the main Hinkie flak he got was purely because they were moves not intended in making the team better, but on perpetuating the tanking business. Making the team purposely worse (of course while profiting on it at the same time). There was never any flak on trading MCW per se, at least by any consensus worth mentioning.

[Moranis]

Interesting tidbit.  I remembered there was an initial trade package which got worked up but I didn't know the details.  Per Mark Stein, initially the Sixers were going to get Isaiah Thomas.  I guess Ainge must have stepped in so the trade got reworked.  Worked out well for us and the Sixers were better off getting the Lakers pick for their rebuild.

Yeah it was originally: Thomas and picks to Sixers, Knight to Suns, MCW & Ennis to Bucks.

Imagine how much different the Sixers would have looked with Thomas running the point the last two years and them still getting that Lakers pick. 

[tazzmaniac]

Interesting tidbit.  I remembered there was an initial trade package which got worked up but I didn't know the details.  Per Mark Stein, initially the Sixers were going to get Isaiah Thomas.  I guess Ainge must have stepped in so the trade got reworked.  Worked out well for us and the Sixers were better off getting the Lakers pick for their rebuild.

Yeah it was originally: Thomas and picks to Sixers, Knight to Suns, MCW & Ennis to Bucks.

Imagine how much different the Sixers would have looked with Thomas running the point the last two years and them still getting that Lakers pick.

The Sixers would have still been a bottom 5 team these past two years.  Most likely would have missed out on Simmons last draft.  The previous draft maybe they end up with Russell or Porzingis or possibly drop lower and get Mudiay, Johnson or Winslow.  Would you rather have Russell, Porzingis or Simmons with Embiid to build your team around?  Any of those three combos would be interesting but I think I like Simmons/Embiid best especially if Simmons can develop a decent jumper. 

[Donoghus]

I don't know what Chicago is doing.....at all.

At least, it'll fly under the radar.  No one gives a [dang] about the Bulls right now with all that's going on with the Cubs.

[manl_lui]

I don't know what Chicago is doing.....at all.

At least, it'll fly under the radar.  No one gives a [dang] about the Bulls right now with all that's going on with the Cubs.

I was thinking the same thing, I mean they already have Rondo and Wade, I don't get this deal? Bench production maybe?

[hwangjini_1]

Interesting tidbit.  I remembered there was an initial trade package which got worked up but I didn't know the details.  Per Mark Stein, initially the Sixers were going to get Isaiah Thomas.  I guess Ainge must have stepped in so the trade got reworked.  Worked out well for us and the Sixers were better off getting the Lakers pick for their rebuild.

Yeah it was originally: Thomas and picks to Sixers, Knight to Suns, MCW & Ennis to Bucks.

Imagine how much different the Sixers would have looked with Thomas running the point the last two years and them still getting that Lakers pick.

a bit like the celtics turned out to be, i would guess. 

[MBunge]

Hard to believe that MCW went from being ROY to being traded for Tony Snell

and yet hinkie got flack for trading him.  They still have the top 3 protected laker pick. Could end up much better than MCW.

Sorry, but I'm not sure where you're getting the Hinkie flack from... I don't recall him getting that, other than a poster here and there. In fact, most people where in agreement that MCW sucked. I think you're recalling things a bit skewed since I do recall you were fairly high, or at least higher than most around here, on MCW and thought he might be getting more than a protected 1st rounder out of him.

So... not really.

Every time I mentioned that Hinkie made a great trade getting the Lakers pick for MCW, I got flak.

Because it's still not a great trade.  The Lakers pick is top 3 protected again for 2017 and most people seem to agree the Lakers could be bad enough again to keep it.  So, Hinkie traded MCW for what might end up being, depending on events, a 2018 pick that might not even be in the lottery.

It wasn't a terrible trade but, as always, it was another Hinkie move where the downside was never considered.

Mike

[Moranis]

Hard to believe that MCW went from being ROY to being traded for Tony Snell

and yet hinkie got flack for trading him.  They still have the top 3 protected laker pick. Could end up much better than MCW.

Sorry, but I'm not sure where you're getting the Hinkie flack from... I don't recall him getting that, other than a poster here and there. In fact, most people where in agreement that MCW sucked. I think you're recalling things a bit skewed since I do recall you were fairly high, or at least higher than most around here, on MCW and thought he might be getting more than a protected 1st rounder out of him.

So... not really.

Every time I mentioned that Hinkie made a great trade getting the Lakers pick for MCW, I got flak.

Because it's still not a great trade.  The Lakers pick is top 3 protected again for 2017 and most people seem to agree the Lakers could be bad enough again to keep it.  So, Hinkie traded MCW for what might end up being, depending on events, a 2018 pick that might not even be in the lottery.

It wasn't a terrible trade but, as always, it was another Hinkie move where the downside was never considered.

Mike

what downside?  MCW was just traded for Tony Snell.  Snell isn't a terrible player, but there is a reason he was the 20th pick in the MCW draft and he hasn't really improved upon that draft position all that much.

And here is the thing, MCW was a ballhog, who wasn't going to pass or shoot well enough to do much of anything for the development of any of the Sixers in that situation.  I still think he could be a pretty solid player, but he needs to be on a team that will properly utilize his strengths and where he isn't the main guy.  Pretty similar to Tyreke Evans actually, who actually hasn't been too bad for New Orleans (until he got hurt last year).

[tazzmaniac]

Hard to believe that MCW went from being ROY to being traded for Tony Snell

and yet hinkie got flack for trading him.  They still have the top 3 protected laker pick. Could end up much better than MCW.

Sorry, but I'm not sure where you're getting the Hinkie flack from... I don't recall him getting that, other than a poster here and there. In fact, most people where in agreement that MCW sucked. I think you're recalling things a bit skewed since I do recall you were fairly high, or at least higher than most around here, on MCW and thought he might be getting more than a protected 1st rounder out of him.

So... not really.

Every time I mentioned that Hinkie made a great trade getting the Lakers pick for MCW, I got flak.

Because it's still not a great trade.  The Lakers pick is top 3 protected again for 2017 and most people seem to agree the Lakers could be bad enough again to keep it.  So, Hinkie traded MCW for what might end up being, depending on events, a 2018 pick that might not even be in the lottery.

It wasn't a terrible trade but, as always, it was another Hinkie move where the downside was never considered.

Mike

The downside being losing MCW who wasn't going to be their future starting PG.  That's not much of a downside.  So in your scenario the Lakers are going to be top 3 bad in 2017 and somehow transform themselves into a playoff team in 2018.    Hinkie got a probable top 10 (possible top 5) pick for MCW (#11 pick).  The Bucks couldn't even get McLemore so they had to settle for Snell.  Makes the Hinkie trade look like a slam dunk no-brainer. 

[slamtheking]

Hinkie definitely got flak on this board for trading MCW for a future pick.  It isn't that hard to find one of the 50 Sixers threads on here to confirm that.

Again, a person here and there... also, getting flak over trading for a future 1st vs. merely trading MCW are two different things.

If I recall, the main Hinkie flak he got was purely because they were moves not intended in making the team better, but on perpetuating the tanking business. Making the team purposely worse (of course while profiting on it at the same time). There was never any flak on trading MCW per se, at least by any consensus worth mentioning.

this is how I recall the discussions as well.  for the most part, most people considered MCW a weak ROY winner and nothing particularly special.  the trading of MCW in and of itself wasn't grounds for complaints but the fact Philly was doing it to get worse, not better.  it left them with no one really capable of running the point.

[tazzmaniac]

Hinkie definitely got flak on this board for trading MCW for a future pick.  It isn't that hard to find one of the 50 Sixers threads on here to confirm that.

Again, a person here and there... also, getting flak over trading for a future 1st vs. merely trading MCW are two different things.

If I recall, the main Hinkie flak he got was purely because they were moves not intended in making the team better, but on perpetuating the tanking business. Making the team purposely worse (of course while profiting on it at the same time). There was never any flak on trading MCW per se, at least by any consensus worth mentioning.

this is how I recall the discussions as well.  for the most part, most people considered MCW a weak ROY winner and nothing particularly special.  the trading of MCW in and of itself wasn't grounds for complaints but the fact Philly was doing it to get worse, not better.  it left them with no one really capable of running the point.

After the MCW trade and acquisition of Ish Smith, Nerlens Noel said Smith was the first true PG that he ever played with.  That tells you what he (and most probably the Sixers) thought of MCW's ability to run the point.  The trade was a good one and it was consistent with Hinkie's process to go all in for a star. 

[LarBrd33]

Lol.  Hinkie is getting vindicated all over the place.  Embiid looks like a future hall of famer and that juicy top 5 Laker pick sure looks good compared to the worthlessness of MCW.  Tough week for the Hinkie haters.

[alldaboston]

Lol.  Hinkie is getting vindicated all over the place.  Embiid looks like a future hall of famer and that juicy top 5 Laker pick sure looks good compared to the worthlessness of MCW.  Tough week for the Hinkie haters.

Can I make a bold prediction here?

The pick won't be top 5. My guess is it'll be around the 7-10 range. I think the Lakers are gonna be pretty good this year, at least compared to the expectations that they'll suck.

Still, props to Hinkie for getting that pick.

[MBunge]

Hard to believe that MCW went from being ROY to being traded for Tony Snell

and yet hinkie got flack for trading him.  They still have the top 3 protected laker pick. Could end up much better than MCW.

Sorry, but I'm not sure where you're getting the Hinkie flack from... I don't recall him getting that, other than a poster here and there. In fact, most people where in agreement that MCW sucked. I think you're recalling things a bit skewed since I do recall you were fairly high, or at least higher than most around here, on MCW and thought he might be getting more than a protected 1st rounder out of him.

So... not really.

Every time I mentioned that Hinkie made a great trade getting the Lakers pick for MCW, I got flak.

Because it's still not a great trade.  The Lakers pick is top 3 protected again for 2017 and most people seem to agree the Lakers could be bad enough again to keep it.  So, Hinkie traded MCW for what might end up being, depending on events, a 2018 pick that might not even be in the lottery.

It wasn't a terrible trade but, as always, it was another Hinkie move where the downside was never considered.

Mike

what downside?

1.  If the Lakers get another top 3 pick next year, then sign a couple of quality veterans, it would not at all be hard for them to take a big leap the following season.  The Lakers, afterall, could have the fifth, sixth, even eighth best record this year and still get a top pick.  Of course, people didn't understand the concept of "draft lottery" when it applied to the Sixers.  It's not surprising that extends to the Lakers.

2.  Opportunity cost.  Trading MCW in 2015 for a return they have yet to receive prevented them from using him as a asset in any other deals.  Heck, maybe Ainge trades the third pick and Young+Hunter for MCW and Noel.

Again, MCW is no great shakes so you can't slam that individual move too much.  It's typical of Hinkie-lovers, though, to be thrilled with a deal where you could wait three years and wind up with the equivalent of Nik Stauskus.

Mike

[LarBrd33]

Lol.  Somewhere in the world, Sam Hinkie is at a Starbucks getting a good chuckle out of this.