Author Topic: Woj: Sixers plan on moving one of Noel or Okafor "eventually"  (Read 81228 times)

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Re: Woj: Sixers plan on moving one of Noel or Okafor "eventually"
« Reply #90 on: September 09, 2016, 04:28:59 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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You have seemed to highly rate some players that had better raw stats like Randle and Okafor (and Noel when he went on a steal and block binge) than some of the guys that maybe are doing more intangible stuff. I'm not the first person to notice this trend. Heck when I get heavy into fantasy football or basketball i start rating some guys higher in my mind overall than they probably are. It is a natural thing.


That's a very accurate representation. He overrates players on bad teams because they put up traditional numbers/fantasy stats, but fails to recognize that those players are only getting those opportunities/minutes because they're on a bad team in the first place. I honestly can't recall him ever overrating a player on a playoff team. However, let some scrub put up some stats and this guy leaves puddles of drool all over the forum howling at the moon on how the said player is better than a Smart, Rozier, Brown, etc.
Smart has gotten plenty of minutes.  Smart's numbers aren't better because he is a terrible shooter, doesn't pass all that well, etc. not because he isn't getting minutes.

You forgot the second part, which is the opportunity. By that I mean placed in a position to excel. It's easy to imagine Smart producing very effectively if he were running the point and had the ball in his hands. On our team, he was placed in a position to not excel by having him off the ball the majority of the time. I can admit that's not his strength. Conversely, it's probably easy to admit that if Okafor were on our team not only might he not start, but his shot attempts would be greatly diminished. Does that reduce him as a player outside of the world of fantasy basketball? No, it's just a question of opportunity.

Re: Woj: Sixers plan on moving one of Noel or Okafor "eventually"
« Reply #91 on: September 09, 2016, 05:02:07 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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 If its the Memphis first rounder in addition  To  Rozier and Smart  is that really a deal breaker for you.

 We are losing Smarts elite defense yes, but we still have Bradley, Crowder, Brown, Thomas, Jackson.

 Okafor, Horford, Zeller
 Kelly, Amir, Jonas

 I would say that balances both teams very well.

 Philly

 Embiid
 Noel
 Simmons
 Smart
 Rozier
i just don't know why philly would move the guy who projects to be their main offensive weapon next year for a backup guard who can't shoot and another backup guard who hasn't even proven he can play on the NBA level.

Bold prediction Okafors 17.5 pts per game will be one of the top 3 season averages of his career.

Re: Woj: Sixers plan on moving one of Noel or Okafor "eventually"
« Reply #92 on: September 09, 2016, 05:19:57 PM »

Offline Moranis

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You have seemed to highly rate some players that had better raw stats like Randle and Okafor (and Noel when he went on a steal and block binge) than some of the guys that maybe are doing more intangible stuff. I'm not the first person to notice this trend. Heck when I get heavy into fantasy football or basketball i start rating some guys higher in my mind overall than they probably are. It is a natural thing.


That's a very accurate representation. He overrates players on bad teams because they put up traditional numbers/fantasy stats, but fails to recognize that those players are only getting those opportunities/minutes because they're on a bad team in the first place. I honestly can't recall him ever overrating a player on a playoff team. However, let some scrub put up some stats and this guy leaves puddles of drool all over the forum howling at the moon on how the said player is better than a Smart, Rozier, Brown, etc.
Smart has gotten plenty of minutes.  Smart's numbers aren't better because he is a terrible shooter, doesn't pass all that well, etc. not because he isn't getting minutes.

You forgot the second part, which is the opportunity. By that I mean placed in a position to excel. It's easy to imagine Smart producing very effectively if he were running the point and had the ball in his hands. On our team, he was placed in a position to not excel by having him off the ball the majority of the time. I can admit that's not his strength. Conversely, it's probably easy to admit that if Okafor were on our team not only might he not start, but his shot attempts would be greatly diminished. Does that reduce him as a player outside of the world of fantasy basketball? No, it's just a question of opportunity.
Smart is a terrible shooter.  I don't think a different opportunity changes that fact, and in fact on a worse team probably shoots worse since he won't be given as many open shots.  I'd actually expect Okafor's efficiency to increase a great deal on Boston rather than on Philly.  Now he might not get 15 shots a game, but I wouldn't expect his scoring to really go down much with the increased efficiency.  You see that was the thing about Okafor, he wasn't inefficient chucker, he was quite efficient, and you don't get less efficient when you play on a better team, you get more efficient.  And for the record, even if Okafor came off the bench I would expect him to still get around 30 minutes a night as Johnson is only good for low's 20's and I would expect Horford to be around 30 leaving plenty of minutes for a guy like Okafor.

That is where you lose this sort of argument.  Some guys just have numbers because they get big minutes, but some guys don't.  You actually have to look at how the numbers are obtained, and for a guy like Okafor, they were obtained because he is excellent in the low post and has a respectable mid-range game.  You don't lose that playing on a better team.  Smart is just a terrible shooter.  He was a terrible shooter in college, a terrible shooter in summer league, and a terrible shooter in actual NBA games.  I can't see him all of a sudden learning how to shoot and flipping a switch.  In fact, on a worse team where Smart has free reign, you could call him an inefficient chucker.  He would look a lot like MCW did in Philly (at least offensively), though even MCW significantly increased his efficiency going to a better team.
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Re: Woj: Sixers plan on moving one of Noel or Okafor "eventually"
« Reply #93 on: September 09, 2016, 05:30:34 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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You have seemed to highly rate some players that had better raw stats like Randle and Okafor (and Noel when he went on a steal and block binge) than some of the guys that maybe are doing more intangible stuff. I'm not the first person to notice this trend. Heck when I get heavy into fantasy football or basketball i start rating some guys higher in my mind overall than they probably are. It is a natural thing.


That's a very accurate representation. He overrates players on bad teams because they put up traditional numbers/fantasy stats, but fails to recognize that those players are only getting those opportunities/minutes because they're on a bad team in the first place. I honestly can't recall him ever overrating a player on a playoff team. However, let some scrub put up some stats and this guy leaves puddles of drool all over the forum howling at the moon on how the said player is better than a Smart, Rozier, Brown, etc.
Smart has gotten plenty of minutes.  Smart's numbers aren't better because he is a terrible shooter, doesn't pass all that well, etc. not because he isn't getting minutes.

You forgot the second part, which is the opportunity. By that I mean placed in a position to excel. It's easy to imagine Smart producing very effectively if he were running the point and had the ball in his hands. On our team, he was placed in a position to not excel by having him off the ball the majority of the time. I can admit that's not his strength. Conversely, it's probably easy to admit that if Okafor were on our team not only might he not start, but his shot attempts would be greatly diminished. Does that reduce him as a player outside of the world of fantasy basketball? No, it's just a question of opportunity.
Smart is a terrible shooter.  I don't think a different opportunity changes that fact, and in fact on a worse team probably shoots worse since he won't be given as many open shots.  I'd actually expect Okafor's efficiency to increase a great deal on Boston rather than on Philly.  Now he might not get 15 shots a game, but I wouldn't expect his scoring to really go down much with the increased efficiency.  You see that was the thing about Okafor, he wasn't inefficient chucker, he was quite efficient, and you don't get less efficient when you play on a better team, you get more efficient.  And for the record, even if Okafor came off the bench I would expect him to still get around 30 minutes a night as Johnson is only good for low's 20's and I would expect Horford to be around 30 leaving plenty of minutes for a guy like Okafor.

That is where you lose this sort of argument.  Some guys just have numbers because they get big minutes, but some guys don't.  You actually have to look at how the numbers are obtained, and for a guy like Okafor, they were obtained because he is excellent in the low post and has a respectable mid-range game.  You don't lose that playing on a better team.  Smart is just a terrible shooter.  He was a terrible shooter in college, a terrible shooter in summer league, and a terrible shooter in actual NBA games.  I can't see him all of a sudden learning how to shoot and flipping a switch.  In fact, on a worse team where Smart has free reign, you could call him an inefficient chucker.  He would look a lot like MCW did in Philly (at least offensively), though even MCW significantly increased his efficiency going to a better team.

You also dismiss the fact that Okafor had a lot more minutes against second and third stringers than he would playing for boston. It is not really debatable that teams didn't exactly put their a game out against the 76ers because they were not very competitive. There were games were teams like the Spurs would just view them as an exhibition team and rest all their starters against them (and still beat them!).

I remember Larbrd or someone else once tried to post a highlight video of Noels offensive outburst in a game against the clippers. The first highlight was against Deandre Jordan. Then then next 3-4 were against spencer hawes. Then it was against Cole Aldrich or someone of that skill level and you noticed the players were barely going into defensive stances (you also noticed the clippers were winning by a larger and larger margin as the clips went on).

Moranis what you propose is certainly possible. However, there is also the possibility that you throw Okafor in a playoff basketball game he just looks atrocious and has 5-6 turnovers and gives up backdoor dunks until he is benched.

Re: Woj: Sixers plan on moving one of Noel or Okafor "eventually"
« Reply #94 on: September 09, 2016, 05:40:23 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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 If its the Memphis first rounder in addition  To  Rozier and Smart  is that really a deal breaker for you.

 We are losing Smarts elite defense yes, but we still have Bradley, Crowder, Brown, Thomas, Jackson.

 Okafor, Horford, Zeller
 Kelly, Amir, Jonas

 I would say that balances both teams very well.

 Philly

 Embiid
 Noel
 Simmons
 Smart
 Rozier
i just don't know why philly would move the guy who projects to be their main offensive weapon next year for a backup guard who can't shoot and another backup guard who hasn't even proven he can play on the NBA level.

Bold prediction Okafors 17.5 pts per game will be one of the top 3 season averages of his career.
He has the makings of a player who should average over 20 points fairly easily. 

Re: Woj: Sixers plan on moving one of Noel or Okafor "eventually"
« Reply #95 on: September 09, 2016, 05:44:43 PM »

Offline jpotter33

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You have seemed to highly rate some players that had better raw stats like Randle and Okafor (and Noel when he went on a steal and block binge) than some of the guys that maybe are doing more intangible stuff. I'm not the first person to notice this trend. Heck when I get heavy into fantasy football or basketball i start rating some guys higher in my mind overall than they probably are. It is a natural thing.


That's a very accurate representation. He overrates players on bad teams because they put up traditional numbers/fantasy stats, but fails to recognize that those players are only getting those opportunities/minutes because they're on a bad team in the first place. I honestly can't recall him ever overrating a player on a playoff team. However, let some scrub put up some stats and this guy leaves puddles of drool all over the forum howling at the moon on how the said player is better than a Smart, Rozier, Brown, etc.
Smart has gotten plenty of minutes.  Smart's numbers aren't better because he is a terrible shooter, doesn't pass all that well, etc. not because he isn't getting minutes.

You forgot the second part, which is the opportunity. By that I mean placed in a position to excel. It's easy to imagine Smart producing very effectively if he were running the point and had the ball in his hands. On our team, he was placed in a position to not excel by having him off the ball the majority of the time. I can admit that's not his strength. Conversely, it's probably easy to admit that if Okafor were on our team not only might he not start, but his shot attempts would be greatly diminished. Does that reduce him as a player outside of the world of fantasy basketball? No, it's just a question of opportunity.

This is actually backed up statistically with Smart, too. Last year his fg% was dramatically better off the dribble/pull-ups (around 42% overall and 35% from 3) than it was in catch and shoot situations (around 22% for both). He also showed improved ball-handling and great court vision and decision-making in the very little time that he had with the ball in his hands. It's clear to anyone who watched him last year, and to a lesser extent the year before that, that he is much better offensively with the ball than off the ball. Turner really held him back, especially this past year when he played with him the vast majority of the time.
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Re: Woj: Sixers plan on moving one of Noel or Okafor "eventually"
« Reply #96 on: September 09, 2016, 06:01:29 PM »

Offline The Oracle

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Where do people get this idea that Okafor is a good Mid-Range shooter?  Mid-range is defined as the area between the 3 point line and the paint.  Okafor shot 33.7% from mid-range.  Out of the top 100 guys who shot the most mid-range shots last year Okafor ranked 98th in FG%, only Alex Len and Mudiay were worse.  He is terribly inefficient from outside the paint, those shots result in a woeful .674 points per shot.

Re: Woj: Sixers plan on moving one of Noel or Okafor "eventually"
« Reply #97 on: September 09, 2016, 06:12:26 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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 If its the Memphis first rounder in addition  To  Rozier and Smart  is that really a deal breaker for you.

 We are losing Smarts elite defense yes, but we still have Bradley, Crowder, Brown, Thomas, Jackson.

 Okafor, Horford, Zeller
 Kelly, Amir, Jonas

 I would say that balances both teams very well.

 Philly

 Embiid
 Noel
 Simmons
 Smart
 Rozier
i just don't know why philly would move the guy who projects to be their main offensive weapon next year for a backup guard who can't shoot and another backup guard who hasn't even proven he can play on the NBA level.

Bold prediction Okafors 17.5 pts per game will be one of the top 3 season averages of his career.
He has the makings of a player who should average over 20 points fairly easily.

Sorry I just don't see it. Sure if he played on a 20 win team every year than maybe he could. I don't think Brad stevens would play him 30 minutes right now because he would kill us on the boards and defensively. So sure he can get 20 points if someone wants to tank and feed him the rock non-stop, I just don't see many situations where that will happen throughout his career because not many teams are going to want to tank that hard. It isn't unprecented to have a player that can score find his way out of the league because of their limitations or attitude (and okafor also clearly has character concerns).  Isiah Rider had his highest scoring season in his second season. It is hard to imagine that Tyreke Evans will ever rival the 20 points a game he scored as a rookie. Brandon Jennings had his best scoring season his 3rd year in the league. OJ Mayo had his best season as a rookie scoring wise (and probably overall).

Somewhat funnily, this may also hold true for recent 76ers castoff MCW who seems unlikely to match his rookie numbers.

While I will be the first to admit this happens more often with guards cause there are not many young bigs that can come in and score right away. We certainly can't act like playing for a horrible team and going against teams running out their backups and bench a lot couldn't have contributed to Okafor having one of his best, if not his best, season statistically as a rookie. 

Re: Woj: Sixers plan on moving one of Noel or Okafor "eventually"
« Reply #98 on: September 09, 2016, 07:16:32 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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 If its the Memphis first rounder in addition  To  Rozier and Smart  is that really a deal breaker for you.

 We are losing Smarts elite defense yes, but we still have Bradley, Crowder, Brown, Thomas, Jackson.

 Okafor, Horford, Zeller
 Kelly, Amir, Jonas

 I would say that balances both teams very well.

 Philly

 Embiid
 Noel
 Simmons
 Smart
 Rozier
i just don't know why philly would move the guy who projects to be their main offensive weapon next year for a backup guard who can't shoot and another backup guard who hasn't even proven he can play on the NBA level.

Bold prediction Okafors 17.5 pts per game will be one of the top 3 season averages of his career.
He has the makings of a player who should average over 20 points fairly easily.

Sorry I just don't see it. 
That's weird to me.  A rookie enters the league averaging 17 points (21 per 36) with 51% shooting... while only being assisted on 30% of his shots (while guys like Towns and Porzingis were assisted on 60-70% of their shots), while consistently getting double teamed with essentially zero NBA talent surrounding him other than a player who played the same position and has no offense...  And you "don't see" how he could average 20 points fairly easily? 

Watch him put up 26 points, 10 rebounds and 5 assists against DeMarcus Cousins, remember that Okafor is a 20 year old rookie... you still don't see it?   The kid is incredibly gifted offensively already and should improve barring prison.  I get that some people are arbitrarily deciding that this 20 year old is incapable of improving while our 23-27 year olds are on the verge of greatness, but I just don't see it.

If you were a timetraveler from the future and told me one of the following two scenarios was definitely going to happen:

#1 - Okafor never averages over 20 points
#2 - Okafor leads the league in scoring within the next 5 years

I'm putting my money on #2
« Last Edit: September 09, 2016, 07:21:46 PM by LarBrd33 »

Re: Woj: Sixers plan on moving one of Noel or Okafor "eventually"
« Reply #99 on: September 09, 2016, 07:31:17 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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 If its the Memphis first rounder in addition  To  Rozier and Smart  is that really a deal breaker for you.

 We are losing Smarts elite defense yes, but we still have Bradley, Crowder, Brown, Thomas, Jackson.

 Okafor, Horford, Zeller
 Kelly, Amir, Jonas

 I would say that balances both teams very well.

 Philly

 Embiid
 Noel
 Simmons
 Smart
 Rozier
i just don't know why philly would move the guy who projects to be their main offensive weapon next year for a backup guard who can't shoot and another backup guard who hasn't even proven he can play on the NBA level.

Bold prediction Okafors 17.5 pts per game will be one of the top 3 season averages of his career.
He has the makings of a player who should average over 20 points fairly easily.

Sorry I just don't see it. 
That's weird to me.  A rookie enters the league averaging 17 points (21 per 36) with 51% shooting... while only being assisted on 30% of his shots (while guys like Towns and Porzingis were assisted on 60-70% of their shots), while consistently getting double teamed with essentially zero NBA talent surrounding him other than a player who played the same position and has no offense...  And you "don't see" how he could average 20 points fairly easily? 

Watch him put up 26 points, 10 rebounds and 5 assists against DeMarcus Cousins, remember that Okafor is a 20 year old rookie... you still don't see it?   The kid is incredibly gifted offensively already and should improve barring prison.  I get that some people are arbitrarily deciding that this 20 year old is incapable of improving while our 23-27 year olds are on the verge of greatness, but I just don't see it.

If you were a timetraveler from the future and told me one of the following two scenarios was definitely going to happen:

#1 - Okafor never averages over 20 points
#2 - Okafor leads the league in scoring within the next 5 years

I'm putting my money on #2

I don't see it

Re: Woj: Sixers plan on moving one of Noel or Okafor "eventually"
« Reply #100 on: September 09, 2016, 07:34:13 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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 If its the Memphis first rounder in addition  To  Rozier and Smart  is that really a deal breaker for you.

 We are losing Smarts elite defense yes, but we still have Bradley, Crowder, Brown, Thomas, Jackson.

 Okafor, Horford, Zeller
 Kelly, Amir, Jonas

 I would say that balances both teams very well.

 Philly

 Embiid
 Noel
 Simmons
 Smart
 Rozier
i just don't know why philly would move the guy who projects to be their main offensive weapon next year for a backup guard who can't shoot and another backup guard who hasn't even proven he can play on the NBA level.

Bold prediction Okafors 17.5 pts per game will be one of the top 3 season averages of his career.
He has the makings of a player who should average over 20 points fairly easily.

Sorry I just don't see it. 
That's weird to me.  A rookie enters the league averaging 17 points (21 per 36) with 51% shooting... while only being assisted on 30% of his shots (while guys like Towns and Porzingis were assisted on 60-70% of their shots), while consistently getting double teamed with essentially zero NBA talent surrounding him other than a player who played the same position and has no offense...  And you "don't see" how he could average 20 points fairly easily? 

Watch him put up 26 points, 10 rebounds and 5 assists against DeMarcus Cousins, remember that Okafor is a 20 year old rookie... you still don't see it?   The kid is incredibly gifted offensively already and should improve barring prison.  I get that some people are arbitrarily deciding that this 20 year old is incapable of improving while our 23-27 year olds are on the verge of greatness, but I just don't see it.

If you were a timetraveler from the future and told me one of the following two scenarios was definitely going to happen:

#1 - Okafor never averages over 20 points
#2 - Okafor leads the league in scoring within the next 5 years

I'm putting my money on #2

I don't see it
I don't see how you don't see it


Re: Woj: Sixers plan on moving one of Noel or Okafor "eventually"
« Reply #101 on: September 09, 2016, 07:55:26 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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 If its the Memphis first rounder in addition  To  Rozier and Smart  is that really a deal breaker for you.

 We are losing Smarts elite defense yes, but we still have Bradley, Crowder, Brown, Thomas, Jackson.

 Okafor, Horford, Zeller
 Kelly, Amir, Jonas

 I would say that balances both teams very well.

 Philly

 Embiid
 Noel
 Simmons
 Smart
 Rozier
i just don't know why philly would move the guy who projects to be their main offensive weapon next year for a backup guard who can't shoot and another backup guard who hasn't even proven he can play on the NBA level.

Bold prediction Okafors 17.5 pts per game will be one of the top 3 season averages of his career.
He has the makings of a player who should average over 20 points fairly easily.

Sorry I just don't see it. 
That's weird to me.  A rookie enters the league averaging 17 points (21 per 36) with 51% shooting... while only being assisted on 30% of his shots (while guys like Towns and Porzingis were assisted on 60-70% of their shots), while consistently getting double teamed with essentially zero NBA talent surrounding him other than a player who played the same position and has no offense...  And you "don't see" how he could average 20 points fairly easily? 

Watch him put up 26 points, 10 rebounds and 5 assists against DeMarcus Cousins, remember that Okafor is a 20 year old rookie... you still don't see it?   The kid is incredibly gifted offensively already and should improve barring prison.  I get that some people are arbitrarily deciding that this 20 year old is incapable of improving while our 23-27 year olds are on the verge of greatness, but I just don't see it.

If you were a timetraveler from the future and told me one of the following two scenarios was definitely going to happen:

#1 - Okafor never averages over 20 points
#2 - Okafor leads the league in scoring within the next 5 years

I'm putting my money on #2

I don't see it
I don't see how you don't see it



just a couple of blind guys trying to enjoy some basketball eh ol  sport.

Re: Woj: Sixers plan on moving one of Noel or Okafor "eventually"
« Reply #102 on: September 09, 2016, 07:56:29 PM »

Offline The Oracle

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 If its the Memphis first rounder in addition  To  Rozier and Smart  is that really a deal breaker for you.

 We are losing Smarts elite defense yes, but we still have Bradley, Crowder, Brown, Thomas, Jackson.

 Okafor, Horford, Zeller
 Kelly, Amir, Jonas

 I would say that balances both teams very well.

 Philly

 Embiid
 Noel
 Simmons
 Smart
 Rozier
i just don't know why philly would move the guy who projects to be their main offensive weapon next year for a backup guard who can't shoot and another backup guard who hasn't even proven he can play on the NBA level.

Bold prediction Okafors 17.5 pts per game will be one of the top 3 season averages of his career.
He has the makings of a player who should average over 20 points fairly easily.

Sorry I just don't see it. 
That's weird to me.  A rookie enters the league averaging 17 points (21 per 36) with 51% shooting... while only being assisted on 30% of his shots (while guys like Towns and Porzingis were assisted on 60-70% of their shots), while consistently getting double teamed with essentially zero NBA talent surrounding him other than a player who played the same position and has no offense...  And you "don't see" how he could average 20 points fairly easily? 

Watch him put up 26 points, 10 rebounds and 5 assists against DeMarcus Cousins, remember that Okafor is a 20 year old rookie... you still don't see it?   The kid is incredibly gifted offensively already and should improve barring prison.  I get that some people are arbitrarily deciding that this 20 year old is incapable of improving while our 23-27 year olds are on the verge of greatness, but I just don't see it.

If you were a timetraveler from the future and told me one of the following two scenarios was definitely going to happen:

#1 - Okafor never averages over 20 points
#2 - Okafor leads the league in scoring within the next 5 years

I'm putting my money on #2
That's some really bad analysis LarBrd.  You just compared 2 centers who catch and shoot quite a bit to a guy who doesn't catch and shoot very much at all.  Okafor holds the ball longer than any big man in the league and thus many of his made FG's are not assisted.

Who cares if a player can score 20+ a night on an awful team.  What matters is if you can build a contender around said player and in Okafor's case it will prove to be futile because he will not allow your team to produce neither a high level offense or defense.  Go look for the last time a back to the basket center, as a focal point, was part of a high level offense, you are going to be looking for quite awhile.  Okafor no matter how many points he scores, will kill the pace, ball movement and floor spacing and in turn adversely effect his teammates ability to score resulting in a very inefficient offense.

Re: Woj: Sixers plan on moving one of Noel or Okafor "eventually"
« Reply #103 on: September 10, 2016, 04:45:47 AM »

Online Celtics4ever

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Quote
Who cares if a player can score 20+ a night on an awful team.  What matters is if you can build a contender around said player and in Okafor's case it will prove to be futile because he will not allow your team to produce neither a high level offense or defense.  Go look for the last time a back to the basket center, as a focal point, was part of a high level offense, you are going to be looking for quite awhile.  Okafor no matter how many points he scores, will kill the pace, ball movement and floor spacing and in turn adversely effect his teammates ability to score resulting in a very inefficient offense.

What I do not get is how people like  this, don't figure in that a rookie will improve.   To me, that is extremely short sighted.  They then harp on others having bad analysis without factoring the improvement in, that is farcical.

He should have an Elton Brand career at the worst.

Re: Woj: Sixers plan on moving one of Noel or Okafor "eventually"
« Reply #104 on: September 10, 2016, 05:22:30 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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 If its the Memphis first rounder in addition  To  Rozier and Smart  is that really a deal breaker for you.

 We are losing Smarts elite defense yes, but we still have Bradley, Crowder, Brown, Thomas, Jackson.

 Okafor, Horford, Zeller
 Kelly, Amir, Jonas

 I would say that balances both teams very well.

 Philly

 Embiid
 Noel
 Simmons
 Smart
 Rozier
i just don't know why philly would move the guy who projects to be their main offensive weapon next year for a backup guard who can't shoot and another backup guard who hasn't even proven he can play on the NBA level.

Bold prediction Okafors 17.5 pts per game will be one of the top 3 season averages of his career.
He has the makings of a player who should average over 20 points fairly easily.

Sorry I just don't see it. 
That's weird to me.  A rookie enters the league averaging 17 points (21 per 36) with 51% shooting... while only being assisted on 30% of his shots (while guys like Towns and Porzingis were assisted on 60-70% of their shots), while consistently getting double teamed with essentially zero NBA talent surrounding him other than a player who played the same position and has no offense...  And you "don't see" how he could average 20 points fairly easily? 

Watch him put up 26 points, 10 rebounds and 5 assists against DeMarcus Cousins, remember that Okafor is a 20 year old rookie... you still don't see it?   The kid is incredibly gifted offensively already and should improve barring prison.  I get that some people are arbitrarily deciding that this 20 year old is incapable of improving while our 23-27 year olds are on the verge of greatness, but I just don't see it.

If you were a timetraveler from the future and told me one of the following two scenarios was definitely going to happen:

#1 - Okafor never averages over 20 points
#2 - Okafor leads the league in scoring within the next 5 years

I'm putting my money on #2
Who cares if a player can score 20+ a night on an awful team.  What matters is if you can build a contender around said player and in Okafor's case it will prove to be futile because he will not allow your team to produce neither a high level offense or defense.  Go look for the last time a back to the basket center, as a focal point, was part of a high level offense, you are going to be looking for quite awhile. 
Yeah... A different era.  All the way back in the pre-Internet age of 2014.



... Nobody is saying Okafor is a superstar already.  He's a 20 year old kid with work to do.  The flaws in his game are clear.  But there's a ton of mitigating factors that h8ers ignore when it comes to okafor's unprecedented season.  You point out that the other guys were catch and hoot players.  Who was going to pass to Okafor last year?  Who was he going to pass to?  He was a 20 year old being asked to have one of the highest usage rates of any rookie of the past 15 years. His teammates were d-league ringers.  He clearly didn't trust them and for good reason. He was double teamed constantly and still managed to shoot 51% for the season.  His field goal percentage jumped over 60% when he shared the court with ish smith.  We already basically have proof Okafor plays better with better players.  His efficiency will only improve with time and an NBA-level supporting cast. 

And while it has been mentioned that Okafor was only successful from 3ft and struggled mid-to-long range, it should be noted that his shooting percentages from both 10-16 ft (35%) and 16-23ft (27%) were basically even with Marcus Smart's rookie year (and better than Jaylen brown shot in summer league against undrafted semi-pro defenses) - difference being that guard are actually supposed to shoot well from that range and a traditional center isn't.   It should also be pointed out that there are already signs of improvement for Okafor's shooting. His FT% increased from something like 52% in college to 67% last season which suggests his mid range game will also improve.  There's things he can and most likely will improve on as he develops - such as working to get the ball in deeper position, increasing his reaction time, and making better passes out of the post, but if you watched the team last year it's not a surprise why he wasn't successfully passing out of the post.  Not only was he playing with amateurs, but the spacing was horrid and his teammates weren't moving to get into position when he had the ball.

It was a dumpsterfire of a situation and nobody was all that interested in fixing it because the team was transparently tanking for another star prospect while embiid sat out another year and saric stayed overseas.  It was likely ungodly frustrating for Okafor to be on a team that probably didn't even want him and had little interest in winning games.   The knocks on him are legit, but overblown right now.  He can be very successful heading forward.  The idea that big men are obsolete is a myth.  A quality post player will eventually rip this league apart.  The idea that draymond green would have been able to guard shaq is just stupid.   I don't know if Okafor will be the guy to lay waste to the little ball lineups, but the kid sure as heck has uncanny touch around the rim and a blossoming versatile post game that could be harnessed to great success if he keeps making improvements - as we generally assume 20 year old kids are apt to do.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2016, 05:42:13 AM by LarBrd33 »