Marcus Smart can't develop properly with IT

[Beat LA]

Aside from when he 'got stuck in traffic' before a playoff game against the Cavs and was late to the garden, iirc, and the thing where he was shown in the making of a music video or something before game 3 against the Hawks this year, again, iirc, the issue with Smart has never been one of work ethic, imo, but one concerning a severe lack of talent, to me.  Greg Kite had a great work ethic, too, but that didn't mean that he could play.

However, the notion that anyone, let alone IT, has somehow stunted Smart's growth is completely ridiculous, imo.  If you're going to say that he hasn't gotten enough opportunities to develop, an argument with which I completely disagree, fwiw (so nothing, lol ), at least acknowledge that he has gotten more playing time and chances for development than Rozier, Hunter, and Mickey COMBINED.  Is there a reason for the latter, ie, simply not being good enough?  Yes, of course, but at least you can reasonably argue that none of those guys has gotten anywhere near the opportunities to play, never mind develop, that Smart has, but again, I'm sure that it's simply because those guys aren't/weren't good enough.  Fine. 

I also reject the notion that he's some kind of 'irreplaceable talent', lol . In fact, given their respective careers to date, let's play a game . Two of these guys are already excellent two-way players, while the other is, well, Marcus Smart, lol . These are the respective best months, by scoring average, of each of these dudes' careers to date.  Which one is the former 6th overall pick?

Player A - 12 ppg, 2.7 rpg, and 2.1 apg on .532 fg%, .589 3pt%, and .657 ft% in 29.1 mpg over 15 games, including one start.

Player B - 10.4 ppg, 4.8 rpg, and 3.2 apg on .374 fg%, .279 3pt%, and .750 ft% in 28 mpg over 17 games, with no starts.

Player C - 15.3 ppg, 4.4 rpg, and 2.5 apg on .548 fg%, .536 3pt%, and .771 ft% in 31.7 mpg over 8 games, all of which were starts.

Edit - player C once attempted 19 free throws in a game, if that helps.

[mmmmm]

Yeah, I would say that questioning Smart's fairly obvious elite work ethic is the threshold for being a genuine Smart-hater.

Fairly obvious elite work ethic??

Brad's quote was from pres-season a year ago, Danny's who knows when and Harden and a college  sportswriter I could find the same about almost anyone?

Walker834 's quotes were better and show a good level of work for an NBA young player--"obvious elite" is a figment of your imagination --just not in those quotes.

I am not bashing Marcus's work, I don't really know ---I am saying he needs work and I don't see Brad or Danny regularly praising him. 

Too much hyperbole when it comes to Marcus--let the kid earn what he earns.

So, despite numerous sources (including the coach) saying that he has a good work ethic, you're just going to go on assuming that Smart has a poor one because you "don't really know" and he isn't constantly praised for it?  Would you say the same of Avery Bradley, or Lebron, both of which have extremely good work ethics but aren't constantly being praised for it?

You're turning a blind eye to the evidence being presented without presenting any of your own.  Do you honestly not understand why that would be view as you bashing him?

'Pretty sure that's not what he said.  He very clearly said he doesn't know whether Smart has an "obviously elite" work ethic.   And the evidence presented doesn't seem to be evocative of an "obviously elite" work ethic.

No where does he state an assumption that Smart has a "poor" work ethic.

It would seem to be a poor assumption to assume he doesn't have at least a "good" work ethic -- it's pretty hard to make it to the NBA without one.  And the evidence presented (the quotes) seem to me to support that Marcus at least has that.

I concur with feckless' notion that we should probably stop ascribing hyperbolic expectations to Marcus and let the kid just earn who he is going to be.   I suspect he'll be a pretty good player.

[kozlodoev]

I concur with feckless' notion that we should probably stop ascribing hyperbolic expectations to Marcus and let the kid just earn who he is going to be.   I suspect he'll be a pretty good player.

DING DING DING DING!

[Beat LA]

http://boston.cbslocal.com/video/program/890/3422882-marcus-smart-on-basketball-camp-celtics-offseason/

Work. Work. Work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HL1UzIK-flA

[jpotter33]

Thank goodness someone created this forum topic. I mean, we haven't had a space to rant about Marcus Smart in almost four days!

Yeah, though I don't necessarily agree with the premise of this thread, these types of Smart threads become Smart-bashing echo chambers rather quickly, which I don't understand since he's legitimately contributed more to a winning playoff team than any other player that's came out in the last two years. That's why I generally try to stay out of them.

Saying that Smart is a limited player who may or may not get better, regardless of how hard he works is now somehow a "bashing echo chamber"?!

Some folks seem to subscribe to the sentiment that because he's such a hard worker, he's bound to develop a three-point shot, magically acquire a first step, and stop making boneheaded decisions. That's far from a given.

An extension of this is the sentiment that other players on the roster have somehow "stunted" Smart's ability to improve on any or all of this, which would be pretty hilarious if it weren't extremely aggravating already.

Yeah, except you virtually always go far beyond saying  Smart is just a limited role player. This is probably the most mild-mannered, non-snarky comment you've pretty much ever made regarding him. Between BeatLA and you, you'd think Smart is Anthony Bennett 2.0, so, yeah, these types of threads ultimately end up as echo chambers for the "Smart sucks" narrative.

I just hope he comes out and really improves this year to stop all this madness on here regarding one of our own players...

[Tr1boy]

How much time does IT have with the ball?? I think he was one of the top 3-5 guys in all of NBA last season.  The ball is stuck in his hands

What was Smart doing more than half on the the time on the court?  yes, just staying at the corner waiting for a pass from IT .   

Smart needs the ball in his hands too and we have seen his capabilities once he gets some time to handle the ball.   Instead of just standing at the corner

BTW this "everyone on the team" needs to become a good shooter or can is not as easy as fans nor CBS thinks.    If this was the case guys like Dwade, Derozan would be supreme shooters. Or even make open shots almost every single time. But they can't and Smart might not be able to.

Why force a player to be something he may never be good at?? 

What Smart is better at is handling the ball a little, getting to that mid range area and hitting floaters or step backs.  Getting to the line a little more and getting his shooting rhythm in order.  Just like how IT needs to get to the line to get his shooting stroke in order

Smart has the tools to become a "total" player on both ends and that includes getting his teammates involved, unlike IT.    I understand IT wants to be the "man". But he is not capable to be such a player night in and night out.  When he feels it (like the one playoff game he was on fire) by all means take the shots. But if you are struggling, stop trying to shoot your way out of a slump and pass it/trust others

And if IT can't do this because he sees himself as an offensive weapon 1st and foremost, then he should be coming off the bench.

During the times when Smart and AB started (right after Rondo trade, IT coming off the bench as the 6th man) the team imo functioned very well.  Team passing was good from the start (good habit the rest of the game) , more confidence on the defensive end and our production from the bench was stronger

[jpotter33]

I concur with feckless' notion that we should probably stop ascribing hyperbolic expectations to Marcus and let the kid just earn who he is going to be.   I suspect he'll be a pretty good player.

DING DING DING DING!

We should also probably stop irrationally criticizing a second year player who has dealt with significant injury issues and being played out of his role for a large percentage of his tenure, too, especially considering that he's by far been the most productive player coming out in the last two years to greatly contribute to a winning team, but that's just me. Hyperbolic projections certainly apply the other way, too, e.g. defensive role player.

[Beat LA]

I concur with feckless' notion that we should probably stop ascribing hyperbolic expectations to Marcus and let the kid just earn who he is going to be.   I suspect he'll be a pretty good player.

DING DING DING DING!

We should also probably stop irrationally criticizing a second year player who has dealt with significant injury issues and being played out of his role for a large percentage of his tenure, too, especially considering that he's by far been the most productive player coming out in the last two years to greatly contribute to a winning team, but that's just me. Hyperbolic projections certainly apply the other way, too, e.g. defensive role player.

Let me ask you this - what, exactly, do you see as his role?  Starting point guard?  Starting shooting guard?  Third guard/6th man?

[Beat LA]

Thank goodness someone created this forum topic. I mean, we haven't had a space to rant about Marcus Smart in almost four days!

Yeah, though I don't necessarily agree with the premise of this thread, these types of Smart threads become Smart-bashing echo chambers rather quickly, which I don't understand since he's legitimately contributed more to a winning playoff team than any other player that's came out in the last two years. That's why I generally try to stay out of them.

Saying that Smart is a limited player who may or may not get better, regardless of how hard he works is now somehow a "bashing echo chamber"?!

Some folks seem to subscribe to the sentiment that because he's such a hard worker, he's bound to develop a three-point shot, magically acquire a first step, and stop making boneheaded decisions. That's far from a given.

An extension of this is the sentiment that other players on the roster have somehow "stunted" Smart's ability to improve on any or all of this, which would be pretty hilarious if it weren't extremely aggravating already.

Yeah, except you virtually always go far beyond saying  Smart is just a limited role player. This is probably the most mild-mannered, non-snarky comment you've pretty much ever made regarding him. Between BeatLA and you, you'd think Smart is Anthony Bennett 2.0, so, yeah, these types of threads ultimately end up as echo chambers for the "Smart sucks" narrative.

I just hope he comes out and really improves this year to stop all this madness on here regarding one of our own players...

That honestly never entered my mind, but upon further examination, even Bennett has a higher career fg% than Smart . *facepalm* Ugh.

[Beat LA]

What Smart is better at is handling the ball a little, getting to that mid range area and hitting floaters or step backs.  Getting to the line a little more and getting his shooting rhythm in order.  Just like how IT needs to get to the line to get his shooting stroke in order

I've only seen him use an incredibly awkward floater maybe a handful of times in his career, but more to the point - Smart has a step back?  Since when, lol ?

Smart has the tools to become a "total" player on both ends and that includes getting his teammates involved, unlike IT.

I'm not sure that he does, as of right now, honestly . He does, however, definitely fit the 'new' 'positionless NBA (which is a load of crap, imo, lol )', in that he has no 'position' playing basketball, ahahaha . Dude should have played football, been a hair model, and taught 'acting' on the side , ahahaha .

[action781]

Smart is not a point guard.

That's a problem, because he's not a SG or SF either.

I disagree. Smart is a two guard.

Someone who can't catch and shoot very well is not a great SG.

DWade?  DeRozan?  Evan Turner?  Tony Allen?  Rip Hamilton was pretty darn inefficient early in his career also and never developed a good 3 point shot.  As was Jimmy Butler all the way until year 4.  Avery Bradley too up until year 4.

Turner, Allen and Bradley aren't "great" but they are/were certainly starting SG/SFs in the league.  I think I'd be OK if Smart ends up somewhere between DeRozan/Butler and Turner/Allen and pretty happy if he turns into a Rip Hamilton-ish.

I think Marcus Smart can be a SG in the league.

[CelticsJG]

I wonder where this notion Smart going to be a star come from   Very curious.

How much time does IT have with the ball?? I think he was one of the top 3-5 guys in all of NBA last season.  The ball is stuck in his hands

What was Smart doing more than half on the the time on the court?  yes, just staying at the corner waiting for a pass from IT .   

Smart needs the ball in his hands too and we have seen his capabilities once he gets some time to handle the ball.   Instead of just standing at the corner

BTW this "everyone on the team" needs to become a good shooter or can is not as easy as fans nor CBS thinks.    If this was the case guys like Dwade, Derozan would be supreme shooters. Or even make open shots almost every single time. But they can't and Smart might not be able to.

Why force a player to be something he may never be good at?? 

What Smart is better at is handling the ball a little, getting to that mid range area and hitting floaters or step backs.  Getting to the line a little more and getting his shooting rhythm in order.  Just like how IT needs to get to the line to get his shooting stroke in order

Smart has the tools to become a "total" player on both ends and that includes getting his teammates involved, unlike IT.    I understand IT wants to be the "man". But he is not capable to be such a player night in and night out.  When he feels it (like the one playoff game he was on fire) by all means take the shots. But if you are struggling, stop trying to shoot your way out of a slump and pass it/trust others

And if IT can't do this because he sees himself as an offensive weapon 1st and foremost, then he should be coming off the bench.

During the times when Smart and AB started (right after Rondo trade, IT coming off the bench as the 6th man) the team imo functioned very well.  Team passing was good from the start (good habit the rest of the game) , more confidence on the defensive end and our production from the bench was stronger

Injuries and playing out of position is becoming a tiresome excuse for Smart. He played bad and got criticized. Rightful so. KO went through it. AB went through it. What makes Smart any different? Because he works real hard? Please.

[jpotter33]

I wonder where this notion Smart going to be a star come from   Very curious.

How much time does IT have with the ball?? I think he was one of the top 3-5 guys in all of NBA last season.  The ball is stuck in his hands

What was Smart doing more than half on the the time on the court?  yes, just staying at the corner waiting for a pass from IT .   

Smart needs the ball in his hands too and we have seen his capabilities once he gets some time to handle the ball.   Instead of just standing at the corner

BTW this "everyone on the team" needs to become a good shooter or can is not as easy as fans nor CBS thinks.    If this was the case guys like Dwade, Derozan would be supreme shooters. Or even make open shots almost every single time. But they can't and Smart might not be able to.

Why force a player to be something he may never be good at?? 

What Smart is better at is handling the ball a little, getting to that mid range area and hitting floaters or step backs.  Getting to the line a little more and getting his shooting rhythm in order.  Just like how IT needs to get to the line to get his shooting stroke in order

Smart has the tools to become a "total" player on both ends and that includes getting his teammates involved, unlike IT.    I understand IT wants to be the "man". But he is not capable to be such a player night in and night out.  When he feels it (like the one playoff game he was on fire) by all means take the shots. But if you are struggling, stop trying to shoot your way out of a slump and pass it/trust others

And if IT can't do this because he sees himself as an offensive weapon 1st and foremost, then he should be coming off the bench.

During the times when Smart and AB started (right after Rondo trade, IT coming off the bench as the 6th man) the team imo functioned very well.  Team passing was good from the start (good habit the rest of the game) , more confidence on the defensive end and our production from the bench was stronger

Injuries and playing out of position is becoming a tiresome excuse for Smart. He played bad and got criticized. Rightful so. KO went through it. AB went through it. What makes Smart any different? Because he works real hard? Please.

1) He's played for two years. For significant portions of both years he's had significant injury issues, and he's largely played out of position the entire time, i.e. the excuses of injuries and playing out of position are justified.

2) KO has never played out of position. He can effectively play the 4 or 5 in differing lineups; however, we've never played him as something like a 3. AB played half a season out of position at the point guard spot when Rondo tore his ACL, and how exactly did he look? He looked absolutely terrible in that role, because he's a pure 2 guard.

Smart played somewhere around 90% of his minutes last year with at least one of IT or ET, who are two of the more ball-dominant players in the league. ET is incapable of playing off the ball, and though IT can play off the ball, we very rarely used that strategy, even though it did work with IT and Smart that way. We're basically playing Smart as a spot-up shooter, which is he is absolutely not. He is somewhere between a primary to co-ballhandler, and that's absolutely where he thrived last year. Anyone who watched him saw that he was much better in his very little time as the primary ballhandler and decision-maker. In fact, his shot selection and decision-making was so, so much better in that role than as the off-guard, too. So if you don't see how playing the vast majority of his minutes with either, or both, IT and ET, then I don't know what to tell you.

EDIT: Actually, I think Bradley started off Brad's first year as the PG, too, but he was ultimately replaced by Turner after he was terrible.

[alldaboston]

I concur with feckless' notion that we should probably stop ascribing hyperbolic expectations to Marcus and let the kid just earn who he is going to be.   I suspect he'll be a pretty good player.

DING DING DING DING!

We should also probably stop irrationally criticizing a second year player who has dealt with significant injury issues and being played out of his role for a large percentage of his tenure, too, especially considering that he's by far been the most productive player coming out in the last two years to greatly contribute to a winning team, but that's just me. Hyperbolic projections certainly apply the other way, too, e.g. defensive role player.

Reasonably evaluate a Celtics player? Are you nuts? We should NEVER do that!

[cltc5]

Marcus is a better passer than Rozier and agree IT should come off the bench.  Smarts growth is stunted on this team