Give up both Nets picks for Cousins

[slamtheking]

Any Cousins deal starts with both Brooklyn picks. Remember how steep the price was for two well past prime players like Garnett and Pierce. I'm guessing:

We offer 2 picks plus Crowder.

They demand 2 picks plus Crowder and Bradley.

The final compromise is 2 picks plus Crowder and Rozier.

This is not to say that the price for Cousins won't be steep, but all picks are not created equally. I am sure BKN assumed they would be competitive for longer - not just with Pierce and KG, but also by bringing in other players. I don't think anybody in the BKN organization thought that those picks had top 10 potential - never mind top 5 - at the time of the deal.

It should also be noted that we did take on what was considered the worst contract in the league at the time in Gerald Wallace.

that's an excellent point that's commonly overlooked.  Brooklyn gave up that many picks with the thought they'd be a very good team for several years, not a broken franchise looking at being the worst team in the league for several years.  Also taking on Wallace was part of that deal.  Brooklyn in no way, shape or form thought they'd be giving up picks of that value or they wouldn't have made that deal.

it kills me when I see people so ready to use them as trade chips thinking we got 3 for KG and PP so it'd take that same amount to get a top young player.  The market at that time, in Brooklyn's mind, was 4 non-lottery (and likely in the 20's for some) picks for KG, PP and unloading Wallace.

[Surferdad]

I would do it.  The lottery is no guarantee of anything.  Even if the Nets have the worst record in the league the next two years, their picks could still be #3 or #5 for example.  Cousins is exactly the kind of super-elite player that Ainge has been talking about.

I'm also starting to come around to the idea that Ainge is not good at drafting at the top of the draft.  His strength seems to be in the 10-20 range of the first round (Rondo, Jefferson, etc)  Yes, I am starting to get concerned about Jaylen now even though my forebrain says to have patience with the kid.

Other than 2 out 3 rough games on the offensive end by the injured, 19 year old Jaylen Brown, what would make you say this? Do you not think that Ainge would have taken Simmons/Ingram or Wiggins/Parker?

It's not like the 2014 draft has proven to have all of these wonderful players that Ainge has passed on in favor of Smart. And this draft is way too early to make a decision on. If Dunn (who I was also in favor of taking) was not tearing up Summer League, I would be terribly worried. Other than him, it's not like the other four (Bender, Hield, Murray, Chriss) have absolutely proven they will play better in the NBA.

Ainge may suck at drafting at the top of the draft, but this has hardly been proven.

I never said it was proven, only that I'm "coming around to the idea".  I hope that's okay on a message board like this.

@greece666, I do stand corrected that if the Nets record is worst, then they can pick no lower than #4.

[Ilikesports17]

I would do it.  The lottery is no guarantee of anything.  Even if the Nets have the worst record in the league the next two years, their picks could still be #3 or #5 for example.  Cousins is exactly the kind of super-elite player that Ainge has been talking about.

I'm also starting to come around to the idea that Ainge is not good at drafting at the top of the draft.  His strength seems to be in the 10-20 range of the first round (Rondo, Jefferson, etc)  Yes, I am starting to get concerned about Jaylen now even though my forebrain says to have patience with the kid.

Im confused what evidence has led you to this conclusion.

[Moranis]

I'm all for acquiring Cousins and would give up the two Brooklyn picks to do it, though wouldn't want to give up any other high value assets in the process (i.e. no Brown, Smart, or any of the young starters).  So something like this would be fine with me.  So Cousins for Amir, Hunter, BOS 17 (which is the pick swap), BKN 18, BOS 19.  I think that is pretty fair value for both teams.  I'd even be talked into taking Koufus off their hands by adding Jerekbo and Young.

So Boston post-trade (I'd bring back Zeller in that scenario)

PG - Thomas, Rozier, Jackson
SG - Bradley, Smart, Bentil
SF - Crowder, Brown
PF - Horford, Olynyk, Mickey
C - Cousins, Koufus, Zeller

That leaves 1 open spot for an additional move.  That is a pretty solid team and one that actually matches up well with Cleveland.  Cavs would still be favored because of James, but that team would cause them a real matchup problem and Cousins is still young enough to be a championship caliber anchor for close to a decade.

[Irish Stew]

Any Cousins deal starts with both Brooklyn picks. Remember how steep the price was for two well past prime players like Garnett and Pierce. I'm guessing:

We offer 2 picks plus Crowder.

They demand 2 picks plus Crowder and Bradley.

The final compromise is 2 picks plus Crowder and Rozier.

This is not to say that the price for Cousins won't be steep, but all picks are not created equally. I am sure BKN assumed they would be competitive for longer - not just with Pierce and KG, but also by bringing in other players. I don't think anybody in the BKN organization thought that those picks had top 10 potential - never mind top 5 - at the time of the deal.

It should also be noted that we did take on what was considered the worst contract in the league at the time in Gerald Wallace.

that's an excellent point that's commonly overlooked.  Brooklyn gave up that many picks with the thought they'd be a very good team for several years, not a broken franchise looking at being the worst team in the league for several years.  Also taking on Wallace was part of that deal.  Brooklyn in no way, shape or form thought they'd be giving up picks of that value or they wouldn't have made that deal.

it kills me when I see people so ready to use them as trade chips thinking we got 3 for KG and PP so it'd take that same amount to get a top young player.  The market at that time, in Brooklyn's mind, was 4 non-lottery (and likely in the 20's for some) picks for KG, PP and unloading Wallace.

At the time, Pierce and Garnett were declining top 50-100 players. Cousins is a top 5- 10 player in the prime of his career, the most valuable type of NBA asset and the kind of player that is rarely on the market. IMO both Brooklyn picks are a given in any deal for Cousins.

[Chris22]

No knuckleheads.

[dannyboy35]

I'd trade the two Brooklyn picks for Boogie in a heartbeat. People think Stevens is like the greatest coach since Pop. I think we'd be insane not to take Boogie for picks and Amir, jerebko, whatever.

[dannyboy35]

It, Bradley, crowder, Horford , boogie ( on paper) is a very good challenge to the cavs.

[Ilikesports17]

It, Bradley, crowder, Horford , boogie ( on paper) is a very good challenge to the cavs.

With that 5 and then Smart Brown and to a lesser extent Rozier and Jerebko we also match up well with Golden State.

Smart Brown crowder Jerebko can all switch all over the place which is key against GS. While Crowder and Brown can at least bother KD with their physicality while Marcus is about as good as you are gonna get when it comes to a Klay stopper and Bradley is about as good as its gonna get on Steph.

Obviously the challege is getting Cousins without giving any of them up.

[Ilikesports17]

Any Cousins deal starts with both Brooklyn picks. Remember how steep the price was for two well past prime players like Garnett and Pierce. I'm guessing:

We offer 2 picks plus Crowder.

They demand 2 picks plus Crowder and Bradley.

The final compromise is 2 picks plus Crowder and Rozier.

This is not to say that the price for Cousins won't be steep, but all picks are not created equally. I am sure BKN assumed they would be competitive for longer - not just with Pierce and KG, but also by bringing in other players. I don't think anybody in the BKN organization thought that those picks had top 10 potential - never mind top 5 - at the time of the deal.

It should also be noted that we did take on what was considered the worst contract in the league at the time in Gerald Wallace.

that's an excellent point that's commonly overlooked.  Brooklyn gave up that many picks with the thought they'd be a very good team for several years, not a broken franchise looking at being the worst team in the league for several years.  Also taking on Wallace was part of that deal.  Brooklyn in no way, shape or form thought they'd be giving up picks of that value or they wouldn't have made that deal.

it kills me when I see people so ready to use them as trade chips thinking we got 3 for KG and PP so it'd take that same amount to get a top young player.  The market at that time, in Brooklyn's mind, was 4 non-lottery (and likely in the 20's for some) picks for KG, PP and unloading Wallace.

At the time, Pierce and Garnett were declining top 50-100 players. Cousins is a top 5- 10 player in the prime of his career, the most valuable type of NBA asset and the kind of player that is rarely on the market. IMO both Brooklyn picks are a given in any deal for Cousins.

that could also go down as one of the worst trades in NBA history. I would not use it as a benchmark. Look at the superstar deals we have seen.

Melo + Billups for Gallo + Mozgov + W Chandler + '14 first
     a recent top 5 pick, a first rounder (#12) and some Ok players
     Cousins for Brown, Celtics '18 first, Amir + Crowder
Paul for Gasol and Odom
     star + very good player
     Crowder + Horford or Thomas
Paul for '12 first + Gordon + Aminu
     1st(#10) + blossoming star + recent top 10 pick
     '18 Brooklyn + Thomas(?) + Smart
Kevin Love for Wiggins + trash
     top pick + recent dissapointing high pick
     '17 Brooklyn + Smart
D Williams for Harris + Favors + 2 firsts
     very good player + recent top 5 pick + 2 firsts(#3 and couldnt find other one)
     Crowder + Brown + '17 Brk + 18 Boston
Pau for 2 firsts and Marc and Kwame(lol) + Crittenton
     2 bad firsts a Euro stash + a reclamation project + recent first
     #28 + #28 + Zizic + Rozier
Garnett for Al Jefferson a bunch of Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.ty prospects and a first
      Highly touted prospect + a bunch of unproven prospects + future first
      Brown + Young + Yabu + Mickey + '18 Boston
     
thats all I could think of.

I just tried to match our assets up with the packages. Not a meaningful excercize. I more did it for fun. Im sure you can take something from it.

[celticmania]

Where does Boogie rank amongst the best players in the league as far as pure talent?
I dont know if I can name 6 or 7 players who are better.

[Ilikesports17]

Where does Boogie rank amongst the best players in the league as far as pure talent?
I dont know if I can name 6 or 7 players who are better.

Talent is a very intangible word. Take away the chemistry and character issues Id say Cousins is a top 5 player

Lebron Steph

Leonard Durant then maybe Cousins.

You could make good arguments for Paul or Griffin. Westbrook could be there if you take out the knuckleheadedness.

[Csfan1984]

Think to get Cousins right now you need Smart, Brown, AJ, and Nets 2018. Kings like Brown and Smart a lot. Cs team is left with 2017 Nets pick at least. Still feel C's willing to only give up the two Nets picks Rozier, Hunter and AJ right now. Kings should hold out for Smart and Brown over the picks IMO as they could still help fill stands with their hustle and highlights even as young players. Remember its a buisness. Them next to all the young bigs seems like a great future core.

[Bobshot]

To get the star Ainge wants, he has to make an offer the other team can't refuse. Or else there has to be a reason they want to deal a guy. For example, Westbrook maybe can be had because the word is he wants to play elsewhere next year, with Durant gone. Griffin maybe can be had because he has been injured this year-and the Clippers did well without him-and he had some altercation? in the locker room, as I recall. Plus he has an option year coming up. Cousins? Hard to say where the Kings are on him. They have enough 5s now to trade him, but hard to say what direction they will go.

Still, I don't see Ainge in the drivers seat. It's still a sellers market for elite players. When you are giving up the best player, you have you have to have a sweet return. That means Ainge has to dangle those draft picks. And be ready to deal them if he wants any of those guys--along with one or two of his better players.

[acieEarl]

If you look at the Kings, they have no direction. They keep Boogie and they'll still be really bad. Why not trade a disgruntled Cousins and grab low draft picks, along with the low draft pick that they'll end up with. The Cs got most to offer for the Kings.