Sully is no longer a celtics

[slamtheking]

Anyone out there think if Sully gets his act together he'll be as good as Horford in 2 or 3 years?

He's what 23 now?  I guess there is a chance he could smarten up like Zach Randolph.

I'm just scared he figures it out with another team and we're left here wondering what could have been.

I have little doubt he'll perform well with another team.  I suspect he'll be a 14/8 player for someone and have a solid pro career.  I also doubt anyone will be wondering what could have been since there's basically two camps on Sully: 1. he's a solid player that rebounds and can score.  2. he's out of shape and the target of every fat joke that can be conceived.

I'm in camp 1 and think we'll see him do well elsewhere.  can only hope Danny finds someone who can replace this rebounding.  we're going to miss it.

[Ogaju]

Anyone out there think if Sully gets his act together he'll be as good as Horford in 2 or 3 years?

He's what 23 now?  I guess there is a chance he could smarten up like Zach Randolph.

that is a chance you take. If he goes elsewhere and does well, then it was not in the cards for him in Boston. The fact that some of these players go elsewhere and do better does not meant they would have done better if they had just stayed longer in Boston. It could very well be that the change was material to their improved play.

[SHAQATTACK]

He could improve or

Go down hill .....like da BiG Baby

[Kuberski33]

He could improve or

Go down hill .....like da BiG Baby

My guess is whoever signs him to his next contract is going to end up regretting it.

[Kuberski33]

Looks to me like Danny is getting ready to pull the trigger on a major deal to address the rebounding situation.  It makes me wonder whether all the minutes Rozier is getting this summer are for the purpose of showcasing him as much as anything else.

[TheFlex]

Anyone out there think if Sully gets his act together he'll be as good as Horford in 2 or 3 years?

He's what 23 now?  I guess there is a chance he could smarten up like Zach Randolph.

I'm just scared he figures it out with another team and we're left here wondering what could have been.

I have little doubt he'll perform well with another team.  I suspect he'll be a 14/8 player for someone and have a solid pro career.  I also doubt anyone will be wondering what could have been since there's basically two camps on Sully: 1. he's a solid player that rebounds and can score.  2. he's out of shape and the target of every fat joke that can be conceived.

I'm in camp 1 and think we'll see him do well elsewhere.  can only hope Danny finds someone who can replace this rebounding.  we're going to miss it.

I'm also in camp 1. There are certainly legitimate criticisms re: Sully. But they are largely drowned out by the slew of unintelligent fat jokes, all of which fail to recognize Sullinger's ability to produce at the pro level despite being overweight and frequently hobbled by injuries.

[MBunge]

There had to be other things Ainge could do to clear space for Horford.  Sully was too productive during the regular season to just give up on him.  If someone offers him a deal you can't match, that's one thing.  This only makes sense as needing a roster spot for a future trade/signing and giving a break to Sully and his agent.

Mike

It was Zeller or Sully -- that was all you could do with a single move.  Otherwise you'd have had to get the cooperation from multiple players, agents, and/or teams.

And Sully is vastly better than Zeller. 

Mike

Except Yabu and Bentel look good, especially Yabu. They can run(something Sully can't do) and hit the out side shot. And, oh yeah, in shape. Zeller gives you some length. And he actually played well in the hand full of minutes against Atlanta, better than Sully did.

Ainge cares about assets and Sully is more valuable than, right now, all three of those guys put together.  If Ainge let the cap holds for a bunch of potentially marginal players force him to give away for free the who was usually the third or fourth best guy on the team last season, that's a pretty serious failure of planning.

Mike

I like Sully, but he is not, as a restricted free agent, more valuable than Zizic or Yabu, nevermind both combined.  That's absurd.  There is no one out there willing to sign Sully to a 4-year $60 million contract AND give up two first round picks.  No one.  No one is willing to give up even one.  Presumably, no one even wanted to give up a second.

It's debatable about Sully vs. Zeller.  It is not remotely debatable about Sully vs. Yab or Zizic.  And all three combined?  Utter hogwash.

As of right now, Yab and Zizic may never play a minute of meaningful NBA basketball.  Sully was the starting power forward on a playoff team.  Ainge has known this day was coming for a couple of years.  What is the point of spending the cap space on a win-now signing like Horford only to turn around and potentially just give away Sully?

I'm not saying you give Sully a massive contract or match if someone does.  I would be against that.  But if Ainge is doing this because he put himself in a corner and had to give up an asset for nothing, that's a real screw up.

Mike

[saltlover]

There had to be other things Ainge could do to clear space for Horford.  Sully was too productive during the regular season to just give up on him.  If someone offers him a deal you can't match, that's one thing.  This only makes sense as needing a roster spot for a future trade/signing and giving a break to Sully and his agent.

Mike

It was Zeller or Sully -- that was all you could do with a single move.  Otherwise you'd have had to get the cooperation from multiple players, agents, and/or teams.

And Sully is vastly better than Zeller. 

Mike

Except Yabu and Bentel look good, especially Yabu. They can run(something Sully can't do) and hit the out side shot. And, oh yeah, in shape. Zeller gives you some length. And he actually played well in the hand full of minutes against Atlanta, better than Sully did.

Ainge cares about assets and Sully is more valuable than, right now, all three of those guys put together.  If Ainge let the cap holds for a bunch of potentially marginal players force him to give away for free the who was usually the third or fourth best guy on the team last season, that's a pretty serious failure of planning.

Mike

I like Sully, but he is not, as a restricted free agent, more valuable than Zizic or Yabu, nevermind both combined.  That's absurd.  There is no one out there willing to sign Sully to a 4-year $60 million contract AND give up two first round picks.  No one.  No one is willing to give up even one.  Presumably, no one even wanted to give up a second.

It's debatable about Sully vs. Zeller.  It is not remotely debatable about Sully vs. Yab or Zizic.  And all three combined?  Utter hogwash.

As of right now, Yab and Zizic may never play a minute of meaningful NBA basketball.  Sully was the starting power forward on a playoff team.  Ainge has known this day was coming for a couple of years.  What is the point of spending the cap space on a win-now signing like Horford only to turn around and potentially just give away Sully?

I'm not saying you give Sully a massive contract or match if someone does.  I would be against that.  But if Ainge is doing this because he put himself in a corner and had to give up an asset for nothing, that's a real screw up.

Mike

Ainge didn't put himself in a corner.  Horford replaced Sully, plain and simple.  He tried to hold onto Sully's rights for a couple days extra before he signed Horford, in case a trade could be worked out.  One couldn't, so when it was time to sign Horford, he made the decision to move on.  Sully wants to be a starter -- he wasn't going to sign with the Celtics who had clearly moved on.

Ainge got four years of decent, at times frustrating play for the 21st pick.  That's a win, and we can all move on now.

[MBunge]

There had to be other things Ainge could do to clear space for Horford.  Sully was too productive during the regular season to just give up on him.  If someone offers him a deal you can't match, that's one thing.  This only makes sense as needing a roster spot for a future trade/signing and giving a break to Sully and his agent.

Mike

It was Zeller or Sully -- that was all you could do with a single move.  Otherwise you'd have had to get the cooperation from multiple players, agents, and/or teams.

And Sully is vastly better than Zeller. 

Mike

Except Yabu and Bentel look good, especially Yabu. They can run(something Sully can't do) and hit the out side shot. And, oh yeah, in shape. Zeller gives you some length. And he actually played well in the hand full of minutes against Atlanta, better than Sully did.

Ainge cares about assets and Sully is more valuable than, right now, all three of those guys put together.  If Ainge let the cap holds for a bunch of potentially marginal players force him to give away for free the who was usually the third or fourth best guy on the team last season, that's a pretty serious failure of planning.

Mike

I like Sully, but he is not, as a restricted free agent, more valuable than Zizic or Yabu, nevermind both combined.  That's absurd.  There is no one out there willing to sign Sully to a 4-year $60 million contract AND give up two first round picks.  No one.  No one is willing to give up even one.  Presumably, no one even wanted to give up a second.

It's debatable about Sully vs. Zeller.  It is not remotely debatable about Sully vs. Yab or Zizic.  And all three combined?  Utter hogwash.

As of right now, Yab and Zizic may never play a minute of meaningful NBA basketball.  Sully was the starting power forward on a playoff team.  Ainge has known this day was coming for a couple of years.  What is the point of spending the cap space on a win-now signing like Horford only to turn around and potentially just give away Sully?

I'm not saying you give Sully a massive contract or match if someone does.  I would be against that.  But if Ainge is doing this because he put himself in a corner and had to give up an asset for nothing, that's a real screw up.

Mike

Ainge didn't put himself in a corner.  Horford replaced Sully, plain and simple.

Ainge also could have kept Sully and had Horford replace Zeller.

Mike

[PhoSita]

How about Camp 3:

Hes a quality rebounder and above average passer for either big position. He has solid offensive skills, and hes flashed high upside as a scorer on the block and as a pick and pop threat. But his lack of conditioning and struggles with weight have prevented him from establishing consistency, earning starter minutes, and even staying on the floor.

All of those qualities were on display last season. He blossomed as a defender and rebounder, but his finishing took a nose dive to Ben Wallace territory. By the end of the season, he was basically out of the rotation.

I wish him luck on a different team. Maybe missing out on a payday this summer and getting kicked to the curb by the team that drafted and developed him will be a wakeup call. Or maybe he'll always be a guy who is content to coast on his natural size and talent, never making much more than the minimum.

[Lucky17]

Perhaps Salt or BudC can elaborate on this: what is the Celtics cap situation like now?

Is it possible that this might flush out offers for Sully, and possible sign and trades?

We can no longer sign and trade Sully with this move.  The Celtics have a minimal amount of cap room unless/until the same thing that happened with Sully happens with Zeller.  The current amount of cap room is really only useful to sign second-round picks to contracts of 3 or 4 years in length.  A free agent is best signed with the room exception.

It's been sometimes said the Celtics have $10 mil in cap room.  That was never really the case exactly -- it assumes that both Sully and Zeller were renounced.  Therefore, that's about how muc we'd have if Zeller is renounced.  There are some variables that are unclear to those without insider knowledge -- specifically the situations with Zizic and Yab.  Technically it's possible to get near $13 million of cap room, but that requires the willingness of both of those players to sign a letter saying they are not coming over this year.  We won't hear if those letters are signed, presumably.

Thanks, Salty.

We've already heard that Zizic will definitely not come over, and now we're starting to hear that Yabusele may not either.  Perhaps there's another shoe to drop?

[saltlover]

Perhaps Salt or BudC can elaborate on this: what is the Celtics cap situation like now?

Is it possible that this might flush out offers for Sully, and possible sign and trades?

We can no longer sign and trade Sully with this move.  The Celtics have a minimal amount of cap room unless/until the same thing that happened with Sully happens with Zeller.  The current amount of cap room is really only useful to sign second-round picks to contracts of 3 or 4 years in length.  A free agent is best signed with the room exception.

It's been sometimes said the Celtics have $10 mil in cap room.  That was never really the case exactly -- it assumes that both Sully and Zeller were renounced.  Therefore, that's about how muc we'd have if Zeller is renounced.  There are some variables that are unclear to those without insider knowledge -- specifically the situations with Zizic and Yab.  Technically it's possible to get near $13 million of cap room, but that requires the willingness of both of those players to sign a letter saying they are not coming over this year.  We won't hear if those letters are signed, presumably.

Thanks, Salty.

We've already heard that Zizic will definitely not come over, and now we're starting to hear that Yabusele may not either.  Perhaps there's another shoe to drop?

Ainge saying Zizic isn't coming over and Zizic, who has said that he wanted to come over, agreeing to sign a letter removing himself from the cap, are two different things.  Until I see a move that necessitates Zizic' cap hold being used, I'm going to assume he's still on the cap.

In other words, I'd assume the the Celtics have $10 mil in cap room until they sign someone for $11 million.

[CelticSooner]

[GratefulCs]

Another wasted first round draft choice.

Oh please. The only guys who are having good careers after Sully is Green, Crowder and Middelton and they were second rounders, so every one missed on those  guys. Everyone else is average or below.

Sully has all the tools to be good. Had shown flashes of being a really good player in this league and if you saw his highschool videos when he was in shape, dude could move well. They didn't know he'd get lazy with his diet and not work at it as much as he should.

Thats not a wasted pick. Thats a pick wasting his career.

Excuses, excuses, excuses. The Ainge alibi machine operating full bore.

Sullinger - let him walk. His back and his weight were well known.

Melo - disastrous, idiotic pick.

And who chose both of them?

Re: 2012 NBA Draft Thread
« Reply #700 on: June 28, 2012, 09:45:46 PM »
Online CoachBo
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[giveth one]
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Like the Sullinger pick a lot. He'll help us.

Absolutely hate the Fab Melo pick. Danny just drafted another O'Bryant clone.

Passing on Perry Jones for Melo? Unless Jones is about to have a leg amputation, you're going to have a difficult time justifying that.

B grade.

paging mr. Bo

Mr. Coachbo


A response?

[Bobshot]

I'm not happy with Ainge's drafts either the last 2-3 years. Sully had some big games, can rebound some with that wide body. But he lost a year because of his back (which is why he fell in the draft), and was not careful about his conditioning.

Trouble with Danny drafting is he is always trying to hit a HR. Sometimes he's better off being more conservative. Taking the safer consensus pick.