Sully is no longer a celtics

[saltlover]

There had to be other things Ainge could do to clear space for Horford.  Sully was too productive during the regular season to just give up on him.  If someone offers him a deal you can't match, that's one thing.  This only makes sense as needing a roster spot for a future trade/signing and giving a break to Sully and his agent.

Mike

It was Zeller or Sully -- that was all you could do with a single move.  Otherwise you'd have had to get the cooperation from multiple players, agents, and/or teams.

And Sully is vastly better than Zeller. 

Mike

Except Yabu and Bentel look good, especially Yabu. They can run(something Sully can't do) and hit the out side shot. And, oh yeah, in shape. Zeller gives you some length. And he actually played well in the hand full of minutes against Atlanta, better than Sully did.

Ainge cares about assets and Sully is more valuable than, right now, all three of those guys put together.  If Ainge let the cap holds for a bunch of potentially marginal players force him to give away for free the who was usually the third or fourth best guy on the team last season, that's a pretty serious failure of planning.

Mike

I like Sully, but he is not, as a restricted free agent, more valuable than Zizic or Yabu, nevermind both combined.  That's absurd.  There is no one out there willing to sign Sully to a 4-year $60 million contract AND give up two first round picks.  No one.  No one is willing to give up even one.  Presumably, no one even wanted to give up a second.

It's debatable about Sully vs. Zeller.  It is not remotely debatable about Sully vs. Yab or Zizic.  And all three combined?  Utter hogwash.

As of right now, Yab and Zizic may never play a minute of meaningful NBA basketball.  Sully was the starting power forward on a playoff team.  Ainge has known this day was coming for a couple of years.  What is the point of spending the cap space on a win-now signing like Horford only to turn around and potentially just give away Sully?

I'm not saying you give Sully a massive contract or match if someone does.  I would be against that.  But if Ainge is doing this because he put himself in a corner and had to give up an asset for nothing, that's a real screw up.

Mike

Ainge didn't put himself in a corner.  Horford replaced Sully, plain and simple.

Ainge also could have kept Sully and had Horford replace Zeller.

Mike

But as I've said, what if Sully would never sign a contract to be Horford's backup?  He thinks he's a starter, whether his play has demonstrated that or not.  Now you've lost both.   Mourning a guy who's been very inconsistent over his career, and has lost his starting job to a 4-time all-star whether or not he returned, seems like wasted emotion.  The writing for Sully had been on the wall since last Saturday.

The key thing to remember, however, is that the decision to keep Sully was not entirely up to Ainge.  If Sully (and David Falk) weren't going to sign a contract, what's the point of tying up your cap space with him?

[colincb]

Perhaps Salt or BudC can elaborate on this: what is the Celtics cap situation like now?

Is it possible that this might flush out offers for Sully, and possible sign and trades?

We can no longer sign and trade Sully with this move.  The Celtics have a minimal amount of cap room unless/until the same thing that happened with Sully happens with Zeller.  The current amount of cap room is really only useful to sign second-round picks to contracts of 3 or 4 years in length.  A free agent is best signed with the room exception.

It's been sometimes said the Celtics have $10 mil in cap room.  That was never really the case exactly -- it assumes that both Sully and Zeller were renounced.  Therefore, that's about how muc we'd have if Zeller is renounced.  There are some variables that are unclear to those without insider knowledge -- specifically the situations with Zizic and Yab.  Technically it's possible to get near $13 million of cap room, but that requires the willingness of both of those players to sign a letter saying they are not coming over this year.  We won't hear if those letters are signed, presumably.

Thanks, Salty.

We've already heard that Zizic will definitely not come over, and now we're starting to hear that Yabusele may not either.  Perhaps there's another shoe to drop?

Ainge saying Zizic isn't coming over and Zizic, who has said that he wanted to come over, agreeing to sign a letter removing himself from the cap, are two different things.  Until I see a move that necessitates Zizic' cap hold being used, I'm going to assume he's still on the cap.

In other words, I'd assume the the Celtics have $10 mil in cap room until they sign someone for $11 million.

Even then look for a 1+ 1 team-option deal and not a long-term deal. That would maintain room for a max contract for Durant next season (approx $35.7 million). Unlikely, but there will be other top players available.

[Bobshot]

If Zeller comes back, I hold little hope they can get beyond 50 wins next year. Other teams are better, too.

[colincb]

Globe posted this within the last hour apparently:

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics/2016/07/10/celtics-part-ways-with-jared-sullinger/0VF3Gms6EsL0Jy3TnPQDrI/story.html?event=event12

LAS VEGAS — Jared Sullinger’s tenure with the Celtics almost has certainly come to an end, as the team renounced its 2016-17 qualifying offer to the forward, making him an unrestricted free agent.

“Jared’s a good kid and I’m grateful for what he gave us and I wish him well,” Celtics president of basketball operations Danny Ainge said by telephone Sunday. “I hope he gets a good opportunity. We just feel this is the best thing for our team.”

When the Celtics guaranteed Amir Johnson’s $12 million contract and Jonas Jerebko’s $5 million deals last week, they needed to free up salary cap space to sign Al Horford to his four-year, $113 million deal that will pay him $26.5 million next season.

The Celtics’ primary options were renouncing their qualifying offers to either Sullinger, who had a $5.7 million cap hold, or restricted free agent Tyler Zeller, who has a $6.5 million hold. A cap hold is a figure that is charged against a team’s salary cap number for a former player who has become a free agent.

Although the Celtics technically could still sign Sullinger, who is now an unrestricted free agent, that is an extremely remote possibility. By renouncing Sullinger’s cap hold, the Celtics gave up his “Bird Rights,” which would have allowed Boston to go over the salary cap to re-sign him because he had spent three years with the team.

Sullinger’s father, Satch, declined an interview request, saying in a text message: “It’s a touchy subject until after his signing.”

Celtics point guard Terry Rozier said the Celtics would miss Sullinger’s locker room presence, but he was confident the forward would land in a good situation.

“He’s a smart guy on the court,” Rozier said. “He’s definitely not a downfall for the team. He’s gonna score points. He’s just great to have, great to have around. Once you’ve got one of those good locker room guys, good guys to be around, a great veteran, you need that. That’s why he’ll be fine. He’ll find a home.”

The Celtics selected Sullinger with the 21st pick of the 2012 draft. The 6-foot-9-inch, 260-pound forward averaged 11.1 points and 7.7 rebounds over his four seasons with Boston, as flashes of potential were mixed with injuries and questions about his conditioning.

Sullinger played 45 games as a rookie before a preexisting back issue sidelined him for the remainder of the season. In 2014-15, he was limited to 58 regular-season games due in part to a stress fracture in his foot.

There was a sense that Sullinger’s weight and fitness played a role in his inability to stay healthy. Last summer he took part in much-publicized training sessions with former NBA coach John Lucas and said he had gotten in much better shape.

Although there was not an obvious difference at first sight, Sullinger was more durable last season, as he played in 81 games as well as the playoffs. Sullinger did struggle in Boston’s first-round loss to the Hawks, though, averaging 5.2 points and 4.5 rebounds in 13 minutes per game while shooting just 31 percent from the field.

Nevertheless, Ainge said he was confident Sullinger still could find success in the NBA.

“He’s a smart player and he’s a very good rebounder,” Ainge said, “and he’s unafraid of big moments.”

Last Friday, Ainge said the Celtics were not finished making moves this summer and that they were looking to add some help at the center position. He reiterated that point on Sunday, and the departure of Sullinger, the team’s leading rebounder last year, will bring some added urgency to that quest.

The Celtics remain in trade discussions and they continue to comb the free agent market, which is drying up quickly. A league source said that nothing appeared imminent for the Celtics, but acknowledged that that situation can change suddenly.

With the departure of Sullinger, the Celtics’ roster picture does become slightly more clear. But Rozier said the big man will be missed.

“He’s a great guy, first of all,” Rozier said. “He’s a great person to have in the locker room with the jokes. He’s definitely a guy you’d notice if he’s not around.”

[CelticPride2016]

Another wasted first round draft choice.

Oh please. The only guys who are having good careers after Sully is Green, Crowder and Middelton and they were second rounders, so every one missed on those  guys. Everyone else is average or below.

Sully has all the tools to be good. Had shown flashes of being a really good player in this league and if you saw his highschool videos when he was in shape, dude could move well. They didn't know he'd get lazy with his diet and not work at it as much as he should.

Thats not a wasted pick. Thats a pick wasting his career.

Excuses, excuses, excuses. The Ainge alibi machine operating full bore.

Sullinger - let him walk. His back and his weight were well known.

Melo - disastrous, idiotic pick.

And who chose both of them?

Re: 2012 NBA Draft Thread
« Reply #700 on: June 28, 2012, 09:45:46 PM »
Online CoachBo
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Like the Sullinger pick a lot. He'll help us.

Absolutely hate the Fab Melo pick. Danny just drafted another O'Bryant clone.

Passing on Perry Jones for Melo? Unless Jones is about to have a leg amputation, you're going to have a difficult time justifying that.

B grade.

paging mr. Bo

Mr. Coachbo


A response?

Coach must have forgotten that he originally drooled over the Sully pick. He was definitely a steal and in reality a top five pick type player coming out of college if healthy. If he was a great golfer, maybe it wouldn't matter if he weighed 400 pounds, but this is the NBA going up and down the court with more and more sophisticated strategies. He got too fat to take advantage of his natural abilities. It's a tragedy.

It was only the last year or two in which Sullinger started to fade as a good player. He was on fire early last season. It's Sully's fault for not getting into shape. He could have been a contender. He could have been a somebody and not some Joe from Palookaville headed to the China League.

[elcotte]

Another wasted first round draft choice.

Oh please. The only guys who are having good careers after Sully is Green, Crowder and Middelton and they were second rounders, so every one missed on those  guys. Everyone else is average or below.

Sully has all the tools to be good. Had shown flashes of being a really good player in this league and if you saw his highschool videos when he was in shape, dude could move well. They didn't know he'd get lazy with his diet and not work at it as much as he should.

Thats not a wasted pick. Thats a pick wasting his career.

Excuses, excuses, excuses. The Ainge alibi machine operating full bore.

Sullinger - let him walk. His back and his weight were well known.

Melo - disastrous, idiotic pick.

And who chose both of them?

Re: 2012 NBA Draft Thread
« Reply #700 on: June 28, 2012, 09:45:46 PM »
Online CoachBo
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*****
Posts: 5435
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Like the Sullinger pick a lot. He'll help us.

Absolutely hate the Fab Melo pick. Danny just drafted another O'Bryant clone.

Passing on Perry Jones for Melo? Unless Jones is about to have a leg amputation, you're going to have a difficult time justifying that.

B grade.

paging mr. Bo

Mr. Coachbo


A response?

Coach must have forgotten that he originally drooled over the Sully pick. He was definitely a steal and in reality a top five pick type player coming out of college if healthy. If he was a great golfer, maybe it wouldn't matter if he weighed 400 pounds, but this is the NBA going up and down the court with more and more sophisticated strategies. He got too fat to take advantage of his natural abilities. It's a tragedy.

It was only the last year or two in which Sullinger started to fade as a good player. He was on fire early last season. It's Sully's fault for not getting into shape. He could have been a contender. He could have been a somebody and not some Joe from Palookaville headed to the China League.

No. It's Ainge's fault.

[MBunge]

There had to be other things Ainge could do to clear space for Horford.  Sully was too productive during the regular season to just give up on him.  If someone offers him a deal you can't match, that's one thing.  This only makes sense as needing a roster spot for a future trade/signing and giving a break to Sully and his agent.

Mike

It was Zeller or Sully -- that was all you could do with a single move.  Otherwise you'd have had to get the cooperation from multiple players, agents, and/or teams.

And Sully is vastly better than Zeller. 

Mike

Except Yabu and Bentel look good, especially Yabu. They can run(something Sully can't do) and hit the out side shot. And, oh yeah, in shape. Zeller gives you some length. And he actually played well in the hand full of minutes against Atlanta, better than Sully did.

Ainge cares about assets and Sully is more valuable than, right now, all three of those guys put together.  If Ainge let the cap holds for a bunch of potentially marginal players force him to give away for free the who was usually the third or fourth best guy on the team last season, that's a pretty serious failure of planning.

Mike

I like Sully, but he is not, as a restricted free agent, more valuable than Zizic or Yabu, nevermind both combined.  That's absurd.  There is no one out there willing to sign Sully to a 4-year $60 million contract AND give up two first round picks.  No one.  No one is willing to give up even one.  Presumably, no one even wanted to give up a second.

It's debatable about Sully vs. Zeller.  It is not remotely debatable about Sully vs. Yab or Zizic.  And all three combined?  Utter hogwash.

As of right now, Yab and Zizic may never play a minute of meaningful NBA basketball.  Sully was the starting power forward on a playoff team.  Ainge has known this day was coming for a couple of years.  What is the point of spending the cap space on a win-now signing like Horford only to turn around and potentially just give away Sully?

I'm not saying you give Sully a massive contract or match if someone does.  I would be against that.  But if Ainge is doing this because he put himself in a corner and had to give up an asset for nothing, that's a real screw up.

Mike

Ainge didn't put himself in a corner.  Horford replaced Sully, plain and simple.

Ainge also could have kept Sully and had Horford replace Zeller.

Mike

But as I've said, what if Sully would never sign a contract to be Horford's backup?

SNIP

If Sully (and David Falk) weren't going to sign a contract, what's the point of tying up your cap space with him?

It didn't matter what Sully and his agent wanted, we have his rights for one more year if we extend the qualifying offer.  If someone wants to overpay for Sully, that's one thing.  But Ainge just essentially gave away a guy who would have either started or been the first big off the bench for nothing.  If he did that to make room for another move, that's fine.  If he did it because he just loaded up the team with too many other players, none of which are as good as Sully, that's not fine.

And what's the point of tying up cap space for Zeller, a back-up center who could be replaced with two or three guys who are currently unrestricted free agents without any drop off in production?

Mike

[RJ87]

But as I've said, what if Sully would never sign a contract to be Horford's backup?

SNIP

If Sully (and David Falk) weren't going to sign a contract, what's the point of tying up your cap space with him?

It didn't matter what Sully and his agent wanted, we have his rights for one more year if we extend the qualifying offer.  If someone wants to overpay for Sully, that's one thing.  But Ainge just essentially gave away a guy who would have either started or been the first big off the bench for nothing.  If he did that to make room for another move, that's fine.  If he did it because he just loaded up the team with too many other players, none of which are as good as Sully, that's not fine.

And what's the point of tying up cap space for Zeller, a back-up center who could be replaced with two or three guys who are currently unrestricted free agents without any drop off in production?

Mike

Sullinger still had to agree to come back for the QO. There may have been indication from his agent that he had no intentions of doing that. If that was the case, why tie up the cap space?

[Eddie20]

Another wasted first round draft choice.

Oh please. The only guys who are having good careers after Sully is Green, Crowder and Middelton and they were second rounders, so every one missed on those  guys. Everyone else is average or below.

Sully has all the tools to be good. Had shown flashes of being a really good player in this league and if you saw his highschool videos when he was in shape, dude could move well. They didn't know he'd get lazy with his diet and not work at it as much as he should.

Thats not a wasted pick. Thats a pick wasting his career.

Excuses, excuses, excuses. The Ainge alibi machine operating full bore.

Sullinger - let him walk. His back and his weight were well known.

Melo - disastrous, idiotic pick.

And who chose both of them?

Re: 2012 NBA Draft Thread
« Reply #700 on: June 28, 2012, 09:45:46 PM »
Online CoachBo
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Like the Sullinger pick a lot. He'll help us.

Absolutely hate the Fab Melo pick. Danny just drafted another O'Bryant clone.

Passing on Perry Jones for Melo? Unless Jones is about to have a leg amputation, you're going to have a difficult time justifying that.

B grade.

paging mr. Bo

Mr. Coachbo


A response?

Awesome stuff. Bolded his contradictory statements so he can answer it easier.

Pretty funny too how he loved Perry Jones, who later couldn't even make our team. And let's not even talk about his love affair with Beasley.

[MBunge]

But as I've said, what if Sully would never sign a contract to be Horford's backup?

SNIP

If Sully (and David Falk) weren't going to sign a contract, what's the point of tying up your cap space with him?

It didn't matter what Sully and his agent wanted, we have his rights for one more year if we extend the qualifying offer.  If someone wants to overpay for Sully, that's one thing.  But Ainge just essentially gave away a guy who would have either started or been the first big off the bench for nothing.  If he did that to make room for another move, that's fine.  If he did it because he just loaded up the team with too many other players, none of which are as good as Sully, that's not fine.

And what's the point of tying up cap space for Zeller, a back-up center who could be replaced with two or three guys who are currently unrestricted free agents without any drop off in production?

Mike

Sullinger still had to agree to come back for the QO. There may have been indication from his agent that he had no intentions of doing that. If that was the case, why tie up the cap space?

Why not let him say he won't accept the qualifying offer?  Again, unless you need to release Sully to make room for another deal, why not hold onto him and renounce Zeller?

Mike

[alldaboston]

Another wasted first round draft choice.

Oh please. The only guys who are having good careers after Sully is Green, Crowder and Middelton and they were second rounders, so every one missed on those  guys. Everyone else is average or below.

Sully has all the tools to be good. Had shown flashes of being a really good player in this league and if you saw his highschool videos when he was in shape, dude could move well. They didn't know he'd get lazy with his diet and not work at it as much as he should.

Thats not a wasted pick. Thats a pick wasting his career.

Excuses, excuses, excuses. The Ainge alibi machine operating full bore.

Sullinger - let him walk. His back and his weight were well known.

Melo - disastrous, idiotic pick.

And who chose both of them?

Re: 2012 NBA Draft Thread
« Reply #700 on: June 28, 2012, 09:45:46 PM »
Online CoachBo
NCE
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*****
Posts: 5435
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Like the Sullinger pick a lot. He'll help us.

Absolutely hate the Fab Melo pick. Danny just drafted another O'Bryant clone.

Passing on Perry Jones for Melo? Unless Jones is about to have a leg amputation, you're going to have a difficult time justifying that.

B grade.

paging mr. Bo

Mr. Coachbo


A response?

Awesome stuff. Bolded his contradictory statements so he can answer it easier.

Pretty funny too how he loved Perry Jones, who later couldn't even make our team. And let's not even talk about his love affair with Beasley.

I doubt he responds. He's scared to respond.

Don't you guys know? Bo has a friend who is also a scout/GM who he gets all his info from,  and that person has never, ever been wrong about any player.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

But as I've said, what if Sully would never sign a contract to be Horford's backup?

SNIP

If Sully (and David Falk) weren't going to sign a contract, what's the point of tying up your cap space with him?

It didn't matter what Sully and his agent wanted, we have his rights for one more year if we extend the qualifying offer.  If someone wants to overpay for Sully, that's one thing.  But Ainge just essentially gave away a guy who would have either started or been the first big off the bench for nothing.  If he did that to make room for another move, that's fine.  If he did it because he just loaded up the team with too many other players, none of which are as good as Sully, that's not fine.

And what's the point of tying up cap space for Zeller, a back-up center who could be replaced with two or three guys who are currently unrestricted free agents without any drop off in production?

Mike

Sullinger still had to agree to come back for the QO. There may have been indication from his agent that he had no intentions of doing that. If that was the case, why tie up the cap space?

Why not let him say he won't accept the qualifying offer?  Again, unless you need to release Sully to make room for another deal, why not hold onto him and renounce Zeller?

Mike

DA is on the inside with actual information. Do you seriously believe he didn't consider all possible options?

No one is going to get it right all the time but in situations like these, there is no way that he didn't consider and go over all the simplistic things you suggest. DA and his team talks/talked to Sully and his team, he isn't just on a message board toying with ideas and strategies.

[BudweiserCeltic]

I think at this point Sullinger to Brooklyn seems inevitable now that they've struck-out in both offer sheets they signed for interested free-agents.

[mctyson]

I for one am sad to see Sully go.

He is a really talented ball player, arguably as talented as anyone from a natural skills standpoint.  That we got a player who legitimately is a double-double threat every night (as one of the better rebounders in the league) at the 21st pick was quite a steal.

Once Danny saw the deals that went out for players who have accomplished much less and are less talented than Sully, I am sure he knew it was over.  He should get over $10M a year given his production.  I am wondering if this health/fitness is delaying his signing.

It is the right move to let him move on.  We signed Horford, drafted 3 guys who can play PF, and we still have Jerebko and Crowder.  There just isn't enough time for all these players, especially if we make a deal for Okafor.

[Ogaju]

How does Danny do this? Looks like he is about to dispatch Sully to improve our BKn picks. Danny is genius.