Poll

Who is a better fit alongside Horford?

Noel
24 (43.6%)
Okafor
31 (56.4%)

Total Members Voted: 55

Author Topic: Okafor or Noel  (Read 6100 times)

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Re: Okafor or Noel
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2016, 10:36:44 AM »

Offline td450

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Would everyone agree that both guys were available on draft night for the # 3 choice, and Philly would have thrown in additional assets to get it done?

That tells us how Ainge values both guys. He doesn't think either guy is likely to help the team as much as Jaylen Brown will longer term, even with other assets thrown in. That means that Ainge isn't buying into the more optimistic views of either guy. 

Re: Okafor or Noel
« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2016, 10:42:34 AM »

Offline dreamgreen

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That's a tough call I think both would work well next to him, I personally like Noel better so I went with him.

Re: Okafor or Noel
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2016, 11:14:39 AM »

Online Surferdad

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Yes, it's a tough call, but on balance I lean towards Noel as a better fit for this team.  He is also a higher "character guy" which I think is important to the FO, despite Wyc's passing comment about pursuing a "difficult" player.

Either way, a trade for one of these guys is far, FAR more likely than Butler, Cousins or Westbrook.

Re: Okafor or Noel
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2016, 11:14:50 AM »

Offline SCBirdman

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Okafor is by far the best choice. He can be and will be a dominant low post scorer. He's 7'1 with a 7'6 wing span, great hands, and a variety of post moves. He also showed he can put the ball on the floor and score.

He played his rookie season as an 18 and 19 year old. He also has 3 years remaining on his contract. Teams are going to find out the way to beat Golden State and compete withbacleveland in the East is to pound them,  OT match them with small ball. OKC had them down 3-1 and Durant folded, missing 20 shots in back to back close out games. Adams, Kanter, etc ate Golden State alive.

Okafor is capable of being a good defender. He has to be taught and has to buy in. He had been a big winner his entire life and didn't want to go to Philly and made that known. He would embrace being a Celtic, and thrive in a winning culture where there is discipline and player accountability, which is the total opposite for the culture of tanking hat existed in Philly last season.

No 19 year old is a finished product, but Okafor has something very rare in today's game: a dominant back to the basket ability to score, draw double teams, which makes every Cletic perimeter player a better 3 point shooter because of more open looks on passes out of the post and ball reversal.

Okafor can also be a rim protector and dominant defensive and offensive rebounder. I do t know why this trade hasn't already happened. The Lakers were fools to have taken Russell over Okafor last season.

Please Danny, make this trade happen.

Re: Okafor or Noel
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2016, 11:21:15 AM »

Online Surferdad

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Okafor is 6'11"

Re: Okafor or Noel
« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2016, 11:54:19 AM »

Offline Clench123

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I'll take the better, more talented player: Okafor.

This

I always said when I left the Celtics, I could not go to heaven, because that would
 be a step down. I am pure 100 percent Celtic. I think if you slashed my wrists, my
 blood would’ve been green.  -  Bill "Greatest of All Time" Russell

Re: Okafor or Noel
« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2016, 11:55:00 AM »

Offline Sketch5

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I like Noel as a defensive anchor next to Horford, but his offense is limited. It would be one thing if Horford gets into foul trouble that KO could fill in for extended minutes for a game. But if he goes down for a couple weeks, does KO step up enough to fill that void?

I'm kinda interested in Okafor and some one that Horford can teach. They both don't rely on explosive athleticism, so Horford could teach him how to be in the right positions on offense and defense. Everyone craps on his D, but how many of his coaches spent time teaching him that? Probably none, they just his offense. He's young enough that given a mentor he can change how he handles and approaches the game. And if he can get an 18 footer to drop like KG did, him and Horford would be a mean two headed monster.

Re: Okafor or Noel
« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2016, 12:08:13 PM »

Offline CoachBo

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We need scoring.

Okafor.
Coined the CelticsBlog term, "Euromistake."

Re: Okafor or Noel
« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2016, 12:27:24 PM »

Offline Rosco917

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Before we got Horford, I would have said Noel. Now that we have Al, I think he would work well with Okafor.

We need more scoring than additional D.

In 2-3 years both will be better players.

Re: Okafor or Noel
« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2016, 01:00:29 PM »

Offline CoachBo

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But ... Okafor at 19 is a finished, flawed product.

Meanwhile, to quote the same posters, it's unfair to judge Jaylen Brown's lack of shooting and handle because he's only 19.

Hmmmmm.
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Re: Okafor or Noel
« Reply #25 on: July 10, 2016, 01:30:23 PM »

Offline jambr380

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But ... Okafor at 19 is a finished, flawed product.

Meanwhile, to quote the same posters, it's unfair to judge Jaylen Brown's lack of shooting and handle because he's only 19.

Hmmmmm.

I think a lot of the same people who like Jaylen Brown also like Okafor.

Re: Okafor or Noel
« Reply #26 on: July 10, 2016, 03:54:41 PM »

Offline The Rondo Show

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Either.

But would take Jah

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=yI4Z42ako6A

Why would you not want this?
DKC Suns

Re: Okafor or Noel
« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2016, 05:22:22 PM »

Offline Future Celtics Owner

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Before you make your mind up you should watch videos and read the DX profiles.
OKAFOR:
"he turned in one of the most efficient, prolific post up scoring seasons of any elite NBA prospect in recent memory, outscoring a number of teams from the low block on the year by himself, shooting .922 points per possession over 8.4 possessions per game. "back in college.
2 of the more concise videos of Okafor:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZihwmQ3PaC8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pb1iND8bFLU
DX profiles:
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jahlil-Okafor-6469/
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Nerlens-Noel-6455/



 By far Okafor. The dude is longer than Noel and way bigger but without being fat. He has some of the best footwork and has very nimble feet and a very quick first step.
 I am happy that many people believe Noel is better for us than Okafor and that even scouts believe this, because it shows how low his stock is and also shows a bias/misunderstanding of the current NBA style/market. And bc his value is so low the Celtics will actually have the ability to acquire him.lol.

1) I don't have to watch any videos or scouting reports - I know both players.

2) You say Okafor is "longer then okafor and way bigger without being fat".  That it absolutely wrong. I disagree.  Both guys have comparable height (at 6'11) and length (7'4" and 7'5") and Okafor absolutely IS fat.  He's not Sully-grade fat, but he's chunky.

Having seen him play, he just doesn't look the slightest bit impressive.  His post game is good and he has a lot of potential in that regard, but it's not like he's the best post scorer int he NBA.  Watching him play down low he looks really no more impressive then an Al Jefferson, Greg Monroe or Demarcus Cousins.

Which is fine if he was good at other things, but he's not.

So given the choice, I would take Noel as a preference.  He's a better rebounder, a better defender, a playmaker (disturbingly) and is just more versatile in a number of ways. 

If Noel even developed a solid offensive game, he could be a star.

For Okafor to become a star he'd need to dramatically improve his defence, his rebounding, his conditioning AND his overall offensive game.

I have more faith in Noel developing one area or his game then I do in Okafor developing ALL of his game.  Hence I'd take Noel, without a doubt.

However if I couldn't get Noel, I would be ok with Okafor as a second choice.
You don't have to do or watch anything, I'm not your older brother or your father, I gave links and provided sources for fans to help make life a bit easier for them. NO ONE IS ABOVE WATCHING VIDEO OR RE-ASSESSING PLAYERS.

1)Ok you know both players. When did you form your opinion and have you stayed current and up to date with both of them? You know when players are younger they can take leaps pretty quickly or show flashes and even stretches of stardom, especially when we are dealing with 19/20 and 21/22 year olds.

2) Okafor is longer, even though most believe Noel is because they IMO attribute defensive qualities that much longer players posses, don't know how you can say Noel has more length than Okafor even with cherry-picking the wingspan and standing reach.
Also all measurements were 1 year old for Okafor, even though IMO he should have gotten measured consensus top 3 picks just don't show up anymore apparently, but we had current lengths up to the draft for Noel.
- So he's not Sully fat, are you agreeing that he's naturally at 19 stronger, less fat, more athletic, quicker, and more solid than Sully could get even though Sully went 2 years of college and was 4-5 years older? I think it's a good starting point for a center. Also he is less fat than Cousins was coming into the league, not like it means much but it shows he's not so fat that he does not posses the ability nor the realistic promise to get more conditioned.

So Okafor is a solid 275ish, 7'6'' wingspan, 9'3'' standing reach and just had his rookie season. I believe Noel was 206 lbs, and you can cherry-pick his other measurements.

Usually big guys that are Okafor's size struggle with conditioning their rookie years, even if they went 3-4 years of college. The NBA pace and the more mature players takes adjusting and players that compare with Okafor,  as far as weight and weaknesses and strengths, they usually all take a year before getting more adjusted and big enough to bang down low.

I'm not as worried about Okafor defensively because of the situation and environment he was in and his strengths and weaknesses all created a perfect situation for him to fail and he still put up numbers. Other teams just packed it in the paint vs Philly and took it in the paint/lane offensively.

Okafor is longer than Jefferson and Monroe and showed much more ability/skill during a rookie year that featured a complete dif emphasis on the style of play(smaller and faster) than Jefferson, Monroe, or even Cousins had to deal with during their rookie or soph years.
Okafor has really good handles for a big and took many defensive players to the rim even though he was on a team that featured 2 centers, no legit scorers but himself as a rookie, no outside shooters to stretch the floor and make the defense honest, defensively packed it in the paint, and Philly had 0 legit wing defenders which meant opposing teams wings' blew past the defenders and took it to the paint at an alarming rate which must have been absolutely grueling for the big men and especially someone like Okafor with his strengths and weaknesses/being a larger center and in need of less minutes together and maintainable plan to keep his wind.

Okafor's jumper is actually pretty good for a big and has a nice stroke and has improved by almost 20% from ft in 1 year since college. He hesitated all the time and  I can 100% see where you or anyone is coming from. But it's my opinion that his jumper, left hand, and ft% will be better this year and continue to get better.....it's just his ability to improve in ft% and the form and stroke on his jumper, it's my opinion.

The videos I posted included a video on all his fgm for the entire season. The season ended a few months ago or less for Okafor and if you have not watched it you may actually see something or pickup something new.

I'm very happy the way things have turned out because we actually have a chance to get Okafor for much less than what he would be worth if given another year or on a dif team/system.





 

Re: Okafor or Noel
« Reply #28 on: July 10, 2016, 05:26:55 PM »

Offline CoachBo

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But ... Okafor at 19 is a finished, flawed product.

Meanwhile, to quote the same posters, it's unfair to judge Jaylen Brown's lack of shooting and handle because he's only 19.

Hmmmmm.

I think a lot of the same people who like Jaylen Brown also like Okafor.

I doubt that.
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Re: Okafor or Noel
« Reply #29 on: July 10, 2016, 07:30:08 PM »

Offline Big333223

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To answer the OP's question about who fits better next to Horford: Noel.

Defensively, Horford and Okafor would match up with the same kind of players. Okafor can't defend like Horford but he'd be best suited to cover the kind of players that Horford already is. Noel can guard quicker bigs that might give Horford trouble, so he's a better compliment in that way.

Offensively its kind of a wash because neither Noel nor Okafor can shoot. But Horford allowing Okafor space to operate in the post becomes less valuable if Okafor never learns how to pass. Horford's shooting would give Noel a clear lane in pick and rolls, though. So I could see them working well together offensively, even as limited as Noel is on that end.
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