Not to be a Homer... but *CAN'T* Trade Bradley, Smart or Crowder!

[DefenseWinsChamps]

I have no heartburn about trading Marcus Smart whatsoever. Not offensively skilled enough to worry about trading. We'll be fine defensively.

Stevens wants guys that can switch in pick n rolls with out giving up much of an advantage. He hasn't had that ability to do that yet because of players like Sully and KO that can't guard anything faster than a sloth.

Smarts been able to guard 1-5 with some success. While AB can shoot better than Smart he can only really guard 1's and 2's. And IT, 1's. Smart has done a lot on the defensive end that makes up for his lack off offense. If he can become an average offensive player, which wouldn't take too much, he has a slight advantage over AB.

And I'm not saying Smart should be a starter, I don't think AB is really a starter, not on a contender. Butler fills that roll much more, but I'd rather have Smart and AB backing up IT and a Butler than get rid of one of them.

Unfortunately AB has the most value when it comes to D and the ability to shoot the 3 ball under that contract. If you're swapping one for Butler, AB would be the one that goes because you have to give up one less asset to make it work in a trade.  And if you keep AB, he's going to demand a huge pay raise in a could years.

Smart will be more cost effective and you don't give up much.

Until Smart proves he can shoot and consistently distribute the basketball without turnovers - neither skill I believe he will ever develop - I just chuckle at the people who consider him untouchable.

If people love his warts that much, just go get Tony Allen back from Memphis. Not much difference in the skill set.

I suspect it's more of "Don't trade my favorite player," actually.

I think there is a bit of green tinted glasses there, but there is also reason to think he has potential. His physical profile is solid and his defense will probably be All-NBA level for a decade.

The question is his offense, but there is potential there also. In pick-and-roll situations, he was average last year, scoring .77 per possession, which is actually better than both Bradley and Turner. There is reason to believe that he will continue to get the timing and pace of pick and rolls down and be effective at getting players on his hip, finishing at the rim, pulling up, and shooting his running floaters.

His free throw percentage jumped to 77% last year too. Most analysts say that free throw % is the closest correlation to three point %. I don't think he will ever be a 40% shooter, but I think he can be 35% with more reps and confidence in game situations. I expect to see a Butler-type rise in his percentages over the next two years.

Interestingly, he is actually better when he is either wide open, or covered closely. It's when he is only slightly covered (2-4 feet or 4-6 feet) that he is most inaccurate. This could point to the fact that his shooting problems are in his head right now.

Also interestingly, the longer he holds the ball and the more he dribbles, the higher his shot percentage goes. This probably goes back to his high usage rate at OKST and his transition to having the ball less in the NBA. With Turner gone, if Smart is given the leniency to dribble as much as Turner did last year, he could get a lot more comfortable.

http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/203935/tracking/shots/

He actually had the highest pullup % of anyone on our team last year. My eye test thought his pullup was improving, but I didn't expect this.

http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/pullup/?CF=TEAM_ABBREVIATION*E*BOS&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=PULL_UP_FG_PCT&dir=1

There are significant holes in his shooting percentage, but in other areas, he truly succeeds. Unfortunately, those successes are masked by his woeful shooting in other areas.

My eye test and the stats seem to bear out that he is just too jumpy in some situations, but when he calms down and gets into a rhythm, he is a good scorer. Basketball is a game of rhythm and Smart has largely not been in rhythm. There is reason to believe that as he ages, he will get more and more comfortable with his role in CBS's offense.

Oh, and his assist/to rate is the same as Isaiah Thomas' and Draymond Green's, and better than Dragic's, Evans', Jackon's, Lowry's, Teague's, Lillard's, Irving's, Curry's, James', etc.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/assists/sort/assistTurnoverRatio/qualified/false/count/81

[droopdog7]

Yeah, this is yet another homer thread.  People aren't willing to trade Avery or Crowder unless we get all stars in return?  Yeah, then I guess you're not trading those guys.  And people only WILLING to trade guys they don t really care about.

The overvaluing of our guys is way over the top.

That's part of the entertainment of this blog. TP for recognizing the chronic overvaluing of relatively average Celtic players. You should have been here when Rondo was on the trade block.

Hey, I've been around since before Rondo was on the team so yes, I saw (and participated) in those threads.

[ssspence]

I am hoping Rozier can take a step forward this year and make Bradley tradable.

Why do folks have such a hard time understanding what positions our guards play? Rozier being good does not make Bradley expendable. Bradley being good does not make Rozier expendable. One's a PG, one's a SG.

The only positionless guard we have is Smart, because he's stout enough to be a SG (but can't shoot), so he plays PG, which he's not real good at either.

[manl_lui]

I have no heartburn about trading Marcus Smart whatsoever. Not offensively skilled enough to worry about trading. We'll be fine defensively.

Stevens wants guys that can switch in pick n rolls with out giving up much of an advantage. He hasn't had that ability to do that yet because of players like Sully and KO that can't guard anything faster than a sloth.

Smarts been able to guard 1-5 with some success. While AB can shoot better than Smart he can only really guard 1's and 2's. And IT, 1's. Smart has done a lot on the defensive end that makes up for his lack off offense. If he can become an average offensive player, which wouldn't take too much, he has a slight advantage over AB.

And I'm not saying Smart should be a starter, I don't think AB is really a starter, not on a contender. Butler fills that roll much more, but I'd rather have Smart and AB backing up IT and a Butler than get rid of one of them.

Unfortunately AB has the most value when it comes to D and the ability to shoot the 3 ball under that contract. If you're swapping one for Butler, AB would be the one that goes because you have to give up one less asset to make it work in a trade.  And if you keep AB, he's going to demand a huge pay raise in a could years.

Smart will be more cost effective and you don't give up much.

Until Smart proves he can shoot and consistently distribute the basketball without turnovers - neither skill I believe he will ever develop - I just chuckle at the people who consider him untouchable.

If people love his warts that much, just go get Tony Allen back from Memphis. Not much difference in the skill set.

I suspect it's more of "Don't trade my favorite player," actually.

I think there is a bit of green tinted glasses there, but there is also reason to think he has potential. His physical profile is solid and his defense will probably be All-NBA level for a decade.

The question is his offense, but there is potential there also. In pick-and-roll situations, he was average last year, scoring .77 per possession, which is actually better than both Bradley and Turner. There is reason to believe that he will continue to get the timing and pace of pick and rolls down and be effective at getting players on his hip, finishing at the rim, pulling up, and shooting his running floaters.

His free throw percentage jumped to 77% last year too. Most analysts say that free throw % is the closest correlation to three point %. I don't think he will ever be a 40% shooter, but I think he can be 35% with more reps and confidence in game situations. I expect to see a Butler-type rise in his percentages over the next two years.

Interestingly, he is actually better when he is either wide open, or covered closely. It's when he is only slightly covered (2-4 feet or 4-6 feet) that he is most inaccurate. This could point to the fact that his shooting problems are in his head right now.

Also interestingly, the longer he holds the ball and the more he dribbles, the higher his shot percentage goes. This probably goes back to his high usage rate at OKST and his transition to having the ball less in the NBA. With Turner gone, if Smart is given the leniency to dribble as much as Turner did last year, he could get a lot more comfortable.

http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/203935/tracking/shots/

He actually had the highest pullup % of anyone on our team last year. My eye test thought his pullup was improving, but I didn't expect this.

http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/pullup/?CF=TEAM_ABBREVIATION*E*BOS&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=PULL_UP_FG_PCT&dir=1

There are significant holes in his shooting percentage, but in other areas, he truly succeeds. Unfortunately, those successes are masked by his woeful shooting in other areas.

My eye test and the stats seem to bear out that he is just too jumpy in some situations, but when he calms down and gets into a rhythm, he is a good scorer. Basketball is a game of rhythm and Smart has largely not been in rhythm. There is reason to believe that as he ages, he will get more and more comfortable with his role in CBS's offense.

I agree, I do think keeping Bradley./Smart/Crowder is important. I don't think either 3 is untouchable, if the right trade comes up, I think I would pull the trigger. However, with that being said, i do overvalue all 3 as well. We are a young rebuilding team which definitely needs a lot of patience. We are improving every year since the arrival of Smart, and I think his value goes beyond the stat sheets, and that includes Crowder. Their defense changes the game. In my honest opinion, Crowder in a way is our younger version of Iguodala with a better shot. He's gonna be our guy in the future if we face the LeBron's, the Durant's, etc. Same goes for Smart. Of course I still have my hopes up for Smart to eventually develop his shot, but if you're gonna go up against the Cavs or Warriors, Bradley/Smart duo and Crowder is definitely worth A LOT when it comes to defending against the Curry's and the LeBron's. For their price, as of right now, coming off the bench is amazing.  Not to mention Smart is still young, I am not writing off him just yet as Coachbo is. Will he ever develop into a great offensive player, I don't know that, and he probably won't become a 20 ppg player, and I am fine with that.

I think patience is key at the moment, I still consider ourselves a rebuilding team and not a win-now team. Culture and chemistry is extremely important, and their growth also very important. Let's see what year 3 is first before we write off anyone, and with the departure of Turner, that might open more room for minutes for both Smart and Brown, which in my opinion is a plus for their development

[CoachBo]

Yeah, this is yet another homer thread.  People aren't willing to trade Avery or Crowder unless we get all stars in return?  Yeah, then I guess you're not trading those guys.  And people only WILLING to trade guys they don t really care about.

The overvaluing of our guys is way over the top.

That's part of the entertainment of this blog. TP for recognizing the chronic overvaluing of relatively average Celtic players. You should have been here when Rondo was on the trade block.

Hey, I've been around since before Rondo was on the team so yes, I saw (and participated) in those threads.

There's a tendency here to try to create legends for those who haven't done anything to deserve them.

It's OK. It's what fans do. Doesn't mean that as an ex-coach, the wild overemphasis on individuals in the NBA over teams by fans doesn't drive me nuts. It does.

But it leads to meltdowns, like the night when Garnett was acquired essentially for nothing. Longtime posters here left in anger over the loss of Big Al No D. Even now, some people persist in pining for a guy who clearly didn't care during Charlotte's playoff loss this year. Zero effort.

Same thing happened when Rondo was traded.

Saddens me. I am a fan of the uniform. I have no attachment to individuals at all. I don't have any favorite players, and I don't want any. It clouds an objective assessment of the team.

[Sketch5]

I have no heartburn about trading Marcus Smart whatsoever. Not offensively skilled enough to worry about trading. We'll be fine defensively.

Stevens wants guys that can switch in pick n rolls with out giving up much of an advantage. He hasn't had that ability to do that yet because of players like Sully and KO that can't guard anything faster than a sloth.

Smarts been able to guard 1-5 with some success. While AB can shoot better than Smart he can only really guard 1's and 2's. And IT, 1's. Smart has done a lot on the defensive end that makes up for his lack off offense. If he can become an average offensive player, which wouldn't take too much, he has a slight advantage over AB.

And I'm not saying Smart should be a starter, I don't think AB is really a starter, not on a contender. Butler fills that roll much more, but I'd rather have Smart and AB backing up IT and a Butler than get rid of one of them.

Unfortunately AB has the most value when it comes to D and the ability to shoot the 3 ball under that contract. If you're swapping one for Butler, AB would be the one that goes because you have to give up one less asset to make it work in a trade.  And if you keep AB, he's going to demand a huge pay raise in a could years.

Smart will be more cost effective and you don't give up much.

Until Smart proves he can shoot and consistently distribute the basketball without turnovers - neither skill I believe he will ever develop - I just chuckle at the people who consider him untouchable.

If people love his warts that much, just go get Tony Allen back from Memphis. Not much difference in the skill set.

I suspect it's more of "Don't trade my favorite player," actually.

Thats funny that Smart turns the ball over less than AB,not by much but also has one more apg than AB.

I never said he was untouchable, but pointing out from a defensive stance he has more to offer than AB. But it's also better to keep both, and both coming off the bench.

And if he has the same skill set as TA, why would we go get the older version of it? Makes no sense.

Also IT is my favorite player right now on the team, so your suspicions are wrong .

[jmen788]

I'm really not a Homer that's the funny part - only recently did I come to realize that we are one of the only teams that has the defensive stoppers to compete with a GSW or Cleveland.  We lack offense and a scorer badly though. Also, I never called Smart a starter necessarily but we need that D...what he did to Millsap in the playoffs said it all.

[max215]

I'd be fine with trading Bradley. His value will never be higher, with two years left on his deal, and I don't want to pay him during the same offseason we pay Isaiah.

[BostonClamCrowdah]

Crazy thread.

They absolutely can trade away any of the 3. None of them are game changers. Don't give me that defensive BS.

Give me RINGS

[CoachBo]

I have no heartburn about trading Marcus Smart whatsoever. Not offensively skilled enough to worry about trading. We'll be fine defensively.

Stevens wants guys that can switch in pick n rolls with out giving up much of an advantage. He hasn't had that ability to do that yet because of players like Sully and KO that can't guard anything faster than a sloth.

Smarts been able to guard 1-5 with some success. While AB can shoot better than Smart he can only really guard 1's and 2's. And IT, 1's. Smart has done a lot on the defensive end that makes up for his lack off offense. If he can become an average offensive player, which wouldn't take too much, he has a slight advantage over AB.

And I'm not saying Smart should be a starter, I don't think AB is really a starter, not on a contender. Butler fills that roll much more, but I'd rather have Smart and AB backing up IT and a Butler than get rid of one of them.

Unfortunately AB has the most value when it comes to D and the ability to shoot the 3 ball under that contract. If you're swapping one for Butler, AB would be the one that goes because you have to give up one less asset to make it work in a trade.  And if you keep AB, he's going to demand a huge pay raise in a could years.

Smart will be more cost effective and you don't give up much.

Until Smart proves he can shoot and consistently distribute the basketball without turnovers - neither skill I believe he will ever develop - I just chuckle at the people who consider him untouchable.

If people love his warts that much, just go get Tony Allen back from Memphis. Not much difference in the skill set.

I suspect it's more of "Don't trade my favorite player," actually.

Thats funny that Smart turns the ball over less than AB,not by much but also has one more apg than AB.

I never said he was untouchable, but pointing out from a defensive stance he has more to offer than AB. But it's also better to keep both, and both coming off the bench.

And if he has the same skill set as TA, why would we go get the older version of it? Makes no sense.

Also IT is my favorite player right now on the team, so your suspicions are wrong .

Smart is as disposable as the day is long. I don't care about his defense. He negates it with bad shooting and poor judgment with the basketball. Never said Bradley is a must-keep, either. The idea that we have anyone outside of Thomas who is a must keep - and now Horford - is absurd.

Trade him.

[CoachBo]

Crazy thread.

They absolutely can trade away any of the 3. None of them are game changers. Don't give me that defensive BS.

Give me RINGS

Your first Tommy Point, sir. Welcome to the Green Team.

[86MaxwellSmart]

I think Danny is holding onto these guys if/when Cousins becomes available....
If not, then maybe Smart for Okafor happens.

[Future Celtics Owner]

I am hoping Rozier can take a step forward this year and make Bradley tradable.

Why do folks have such a hard time understanding what positions our guards play? Rozier being good does not make Bradley expendable. Bradley being good does not make Rozier expendable. One's a PG, one's a SG.

The only positionless guard we have is Smart, because he's stout enough to be a SG (but can't shoot), so he plays PG, which he's not real good at either.

Rozier has a longer wingspan and standing reach...this is just off the top of my head but he is at minimum equal in length and size to Bradley.

[Future Celtics Owner]

I think Danny is holding onto these guys if/when Cousins becomes available....
If not, then maybe Smart for Okafor happens.

I'd be the happiest guy in the world. I wonder what Marcus Smart's value is with them.

Given us drafting Jaylen Brown, a sg/sf, if Celts can tell he can not get much better offensively(shame) then he needs to go. TA is basically the same thing at that point.

[Future Celtics Owner]

In order to beat GS you will aslo need to tire them out while they play DEFENSE.

If we got Okafor then we would have a big advantage over them and given what Okafor would require to get, we would have have a lot of trade-able assets for a All-Star/Star player