The case against Jaylen Brown

[Chris22]

So we should pass on the next Westbrook/Wade to take the next Jeff Green because of Terry Rozier?  Got it.....

All that matters is finding the star, not the position.  The Celtics need a #1 and a #2.  I don't see Brown's ceiling as either.  I'd rather have Bender even.

Please save this post....

[RedClaw33]

So we should pass on the next Westbrook/Wade to take the next Jeff Green because of Terry Rozier?  Got it.....

All that matters is finding the star, not the position.  The Celtics need a #1 and a #2.  I don't see Brown's ceiling as either.  I'd rather have Bender even.

Agreed.

If you look at are roster and its incredible imbalance its even more amazing what Steven and the cast of misfit toys was able to accomplish.

If Turner is gone, which seems likely, we need a back up guard who can handle the ball and make decisions that will move the offense.  We also need shooting, rebounding, scoring, rim protection, and better over all FT shooting.

We just need the best player we can get.  I still think Bender helps in the most areas, is the best fit, and has the highest ceiling...but I 'm fine with Dunn, Murray, Brown, and even Hield.

[Chris22]

So we should pass on the next Westbrook/Wade to take the next Jeff Green because of Terry Rozier?  Got it.....

All that matters is finding the star, not the position.  The Celtics need a #1 and a #2.  I don't see Brown's ceiling as either.  I'd rather have Bender even.

Agreed.

If you look at are roster and its incredible imbalance its even more amazing what Steven and the cast of misfit toys was able to accomplish.

If Turner is gone, which seems likely, we need a back up guard who can handle the ball and make decisions that will move the offense.  We also need shooting, rebounding, scoring, rim protection, and better over all FT shooting.

We just need the best player we can get.  I still think Bender helps in the most areas, is the best fit, and has the highest ceiling...but I 'm fine with Dunn, Murray, Brown, and even Hield.

We have a backup point guard, Rozier.

[RedClaw33]

So we should pass on the next Westbrook/Wade to take the next Jeff Green because of Terry Rozier?  Got it.....

All that matters is finding the star, not the position.  The Celtics need a #1 and a #2.  I don't see Brown's ceiling as either.  I'd rather have Bender even.

Agreed.

If you look at are roster and its incredible imbalance its even more amazing what Steven and the cast of misfit toys was able to accomplish.

If Turner is gone, which seems likely, we need a back up guard who can handle the ball and make decisions that will move the offense.  We also need shooting, rebounding, scoring, rim protection, and better over all FT shooting.

We just need the best player we can get.  I still think Bender helps in the most areas, is the best fit, and has the highest ceiling...but I 'm fine with Dunn, Murray, Brown, and even Hield.

We have a backup point guard, Rozier.

I don't think Rozier any better at running the point than Smart is.

[Chris22]

So we should pass on the next Westbrook/Wade to take the next Jeff Green because of Terry Rozier?  Got it.....

All that matters is finding the star, not the position.  The Celtics need a #1 and a #2.  I don't see Brown's ceiling as either.  I'd rather have Bender even.

Agreed.

If you look at are roster and its incredible imbalance its even more amazing what Steven and the cast of misfit toys was able to accomplish.

If Turner is gone, which seems likely, we need a back up guard who can handle the ball and make decisions that will move the offense.  We also need shooting, rebounding, scoring, rim protection, and better over all FT shooting.

We just need the best player we can get.  I still think Bender helps in the most areas, is the best fit, and has the highest ceiling...but I 'm fine with Dunn, Murray, Brown, and even Hield.

We have a backup point guard, Rozier.

I don't think Rozier any better at running the point than Smart is.

He is more of a point guard than Smart is, and Rozier hasn't had the time Smart has.

[RedClaw33]

So we should pass on the next Westbrook/Wade to take the next Jeff Green because of Terry Rozier?  Got it.....

All that matters is finding the star, not the position.  The Celtics need a #1 and a #2.  I don't see Brown's ceiling as either.  I'd rather have Bender even.

Agreed.

If you look at are roster and its incredible imbalance its even more amazing what Steven and the cast of misfit toys was able to accomplish.

If Turner is gone, which seems likely, we need a back up guard who can handle the ball and make decisions that will move the offense.  We also need shooting, rebounding, scoring, rim protection, and better over all FT shooting.

We just need the best player we can get.  I still think Bender helps in the most areas, is the best fit, and has the highest ceiling...but I 'm fine with Dunn, Murray, Brown, and even Hield.

We have a backup point guard, Rozier.

I don't think Rozier any better at running the point than Smart is.

He is more of a point guard than Smart is, and Rozier hasn't had the time Smart has.

We will have to agree to disagree on this one...Rozier is older than Smart and Marcus clearly has better court vision...both of them have suspect ball skills and decision making.  Smart would have been the #2 or #3 if he came out the year before in part because scouts thought he had the potential to be a solid point...Rozier has never had that potential.

[Chris22]

So we should pass on the next Westbrook/Wade to take the next Jeff Green because of Terry Rozier?  Got it.....

All that matters is finding the star, not the position.  The Celtics need a #1 and a #2.  I don't see Brown's ceiling as either.  I'd rather have Bender even.

Agreed.

If you look at are roster and its incredible imbalance its even more amazing what Steven and the cast of misfit toys was able to accomplish.

If Turner is gone, which seems likely, we need a back up guard who can handle the ball and make decisions that will move the offense.  We also need shooting, rebounding, scoring, rim protection, and better over all FT shooting.

We just need the best player we can get.  I still think Bender helps in the most areas, is the best fit, and has the highest ceiling...but I 'm fine with Dunn, Murray, Brown, and even Hield.

We have a backup point guard, Rozier.

I don't think Rozier any better at running the point than Smart is.

He is more of a point guard than Smart is, and Rozier hasn't had the time Smart has.

We will have to agree to disagree on this one...Rozier is older than Smart and Marcus clearly has better court vision...both of them have suspect ball skills and decision making.  Smart would have been the #2 or #3 if he came out the year before in part because scouts thought he had the potential to be a solid point...Rozier has never had that potential.

Smart is not a point guard, Rozier is.

[RedClaw33]

So we should pass on the next Westbrook/Wade to take the next Jeff Green because of Terry Rozier?  Got it.....

All that matters is finding the star, not the position.  The Celtics need a #1 and a #2.  I don't see Brown's ceiling as either.  I'd rather have Bender even.

Agreed.

If you look at are roster and its incredible imbalance its even more amazing what Steven and the cast of misfit toys was able to accomplish.

If Turner is gone, which seems likely, we need a back up guard who can handle the ball and make decisions that will move the offense.  We also need shooting, rebounding, scoring, rim protection, and better over all FT shooting.

We just need the best player we can get.  I still think Bender helps in the most areas, is the best fit, and has the highest ceiling...but I 'm fine with Dunn, Murray, Brown, and even Hield.

We have a backup point guard, Rozier.

I don't think Rozier any better at running the point than Smart is.

He is more of a point guard than Smart is, and Rozier hasn't had the time Smart has.

We will have to agree to disagree on this one...Rozier is older than Smart and Marcus clearly has better court vision...both of them have suspect ball skills and decision making.  Smart would have been the #2 or #3 if he came out the year before in part because scouts thought he had the potential to be a solid point...Rozier has never had that potential.

Smart is not a point guard, Rozier is.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/2990992/marcus-smart
http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/3074752/terry-rozier

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Or8GJXpOuyg
Sounds like they are calling him a point guard...

[Chris22]

So we should pass on the next Westbrook/Wade to take the next Jeff Green because of Terry Rozier?  Got it.....

All that matters is finding the star, not the position.  The Celtics need a #1 and a #2.  I don't see Brown's ceiling as either.  I'd rather have Bender even.

Agreed.

If you look at are roster and its incredible imbalance its even more amazing what Steven and the cast of misfit toys was able to accomplish.

If Turner is gone, which seems likely, we need a back up guard who can handle the ball and make decisions that will move the offense.  We also need shooting, rebounding, scoring, rim protection, and better over all FT shooting.

We just need the best player we can get.  I still think Bender helps in the most areas, is the best fit, and has the highest ceiling...but I 'm fine with Dunn, Murray, Brown, and even Hield.

We have a backup point guard, Rozier.

I don't think Rozier any better at running the point than Smart is.

He is more of a point guard than Smart is, and Rozier hasn't had the time Smart has.

We will have to agree to disagree on this one...Rozier is older than Smart and Marcus clearly has better court vision...both of them have suspect ball skills and decision making.  Smart would have been the #2 or #3 if he came out the year before in part because scouts thought he had the potential to be a solid point...Rozier has never had that potential.

Smart is not a point guard, Rozier is.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/2990992/marcus-smart
http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/3074752/terry-rozier

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Or8GJXpOuyg
Sounds like they are calling him a point guard...

Sorry, Smart is not a point guard. He's a two.

[RedClaw33]

Buddy....I understand what you are saying...but do you get what I am trying to communicate.

Neither of them have point guard skills.

You say Smart is a 2 and I don't disagree...but he was played at the one with Even Turner taking the ball handling duties all year long.

He was drafted to be a point guard the skills just never materialized.  Rozier was drafted to be an athletic back-up one but what I am saying is that he also lacks those skills.

Marcus is a better passer by the eye test and the numbers test....Rozier has shown that he can defend a little and rebound not that he can run an offense....Turner was the back-up for this team all year.

[Fred Roberts]

Jalen is gonna be money. So is smart and Rozier.  And our other dude thon maker.

[The One]

I'm on record now that we should not draft Brown at #3 overall. Here is what he does well. Very good in transition, Can get to the basket in half court finish and draw fouls. That's about it.

 His jumpshot form is terrible, it's a horrifically slow release as well. If you have watched his games he is not a good defender at all. Below avg free throw shooter, poor 3 point shooter.

 Handles are ok, gets very sloppy at high speeds makes poor decisions. I also do not seeing him being a gym rat, with his high intelligence and many interests off the court.

 Stanley Johnson my binkie from last year is much, much better than Brown and he was drafted #8 overall. Winslow is also better and drafted #10 last year overall. So why in the world would you draft him #3?

 You can even see in these highlights how sloppy his game is. Take a look.

https://youtu.be/Dv95OuqnVk0

Rebuttal 1 - He has now followed Kobe's and Butler's schedule.  Getting up at 5:30am...shows that he is dedicated.

Rebuttal 2 - Each draft is a different animal...draft positions cannot be compared year to year.

I like him a lot...he will be a very good player.

 The 5:30 am stuff is nothing but pre draft hype, if you were his agent you would be saying the same stuff.

 And you absolutely can compare players from different drafts, do you honestly think scouts don't do that, of course they do.

 Bender is no Porzingis.
 Brown is not Winslow or Johnson
 Poeltl is better than Frank the Tank

I didn't say you can't compare players. I said you can't compare draft positions across years. In other words, Winslow's draft position last year has no bearing on any prospect's draft position this year.

Different year. Different prospects. Different situation.

[guava_wrench]

Stanley Johnson my binkie from last year is much, much better than Brown and he was drafted #8 overall. Winslow is also better and drafted #10 last year overall. So why in the world would you draft him #3?

That makes no sense whatsoever. Winslow and Johnson aren't in this draft. Please don't hunt for contrived arguments.

You pick a guy because you like him better than the other people drafted at that position. You don't skip a guy because Jordan was better at #3.

Or maybe we shouldn't draft anyone with any of our picks because Ginobili was better at 57.

[biggs]

Brown will be better than Stanley Johnson and Justice Winslow.

[Chris22]

Buddy....I understand what you are saying...but do you get what I am trying to communicate.

Neither of them have point guard skills.

You say Smart is a 2 and I don't disagree...but he was played at the one with Even Turner taking the ball handling duties all year long.

He was drafted to be a point guard the skills just never materialized.  Rozier was drafted to be an athletic back-up one but what I am saying is that he also lacks those skills.

Marcus is a better passer by the eye test and the numbers test....Rozier has shown that he can defend a little and rebound not that he can run an offense....Turner was the back-up for this team all year.

We disagree.