Celtics in on Butler negotiations (Via CBS)

[The Oracle]

Better shooter- As of right now- Bradley.  At the same age- Call it a draw.

Nothing is indicative that Marcus will become a good shooter, Oracle, better check your crystal ball.   We have all seen him get hot and next game be dead cold.

You need to get your reading glasses because I never said he would.  The poster I quoted used an extremely small sample to try and suggest Bradley was always a good shooter which is just flat wrong.  It took him 4 years to get his range out to above the break 3's.  His shot charts were barf inducing back then.  Smart did shoot average numbers from 3 on volume as a rookie though and there is no reason to believe he will not do so or better again.  To write him off after witnessing many others greatly improve is crazy.

[Granath]

Reports are that Bulls have asked for Wiggins plus a pick for Butler from Minnesota, thus Jimmy ain't coming here.

Source?

Also, remember just because someone leaked that was the asking price doesn't mean it is. It could very well mean they're just trying to drive the market up before trading him. It's all just fun and games until the deal is actually done.

[crimcartel]

Reports are that Bulls have asked for Wiggins plus a pick for Butler from Minnesota, thus Jimmy ain't coming here.

No way minn does Wiggins . LOL......bills are dreaming.

Exactly.... Minny is not making that trade. Bulls don't have to make a deal... but they will need to reload as the current roster is maxed out talent wise.

Butler will be on the Celtics.

[mef730]

For those that don't want Butler, just watch this video and tell me he isn't a "Celtic" style player:

http://youtu.be/Xz5LhrjnbDs

I try not to get too excited about any individual player - it leads to irrational decisions (if I were the GM). But Butler is one of those guys who you really need to see in person. Think this video shows a Celtic-style player? He looks that much better on the parquet. The energy is tangible.

I think people are going to be surprised when it's, bradley, smart, 3, 16 for Butler. People will be upset like when we traded big al and gerald green.

The more I read this thread, the more I think about how much of a steal that Rondo trade was. The centerpiece was the Dallas pick. Crowder was a freakin' throw-in. Man, we cleaned up.

Mike

[CelticGuardian]

Butler is not worth that much. Him alone is not even going to do it for #3 + Decent player + other decent player + Ainge's Chipotle bowl. Are you serious? We got 17 banners guys, there's no need for us to be this desperate.

[spikelovetheCelts]

Butler is not worth that much. Him alone is not even going to do it for #3 + Decent player + other decent player + Ainge's Chipotle bowl. Are you serious? We got 17 banners guys, there's no need for us to be this desperate.

I say Dunn will be better than butler. I for one hope we trade 3 for a big with Phily.

[CelticGuardian]

Butler is not worth that much. Him alone is not even going to do it for #3 + Decent player + other decent player + Ainge's Chipotle bowl. Are you serious? We got 17 banners guys, there's no need for us to be this desperate.

I say Dunn will be better than butler. I for one hope we trade 3 for a big with Phily.

I agree this is the way to go. More youth keeps our window open a bit longer and our frontcourt is probably one of the worst in the league.

[crimson_stallion]

I like Butler and think he's a nice fit next to IT....my only hesitation is the cost.

My guess is if we get Butler we are going all out for KD.

If you got Butler you wouldn't need KD to compete for a title.  You would just have to upgrade the 4/5 and replace whatever players you have to give up to make the deal for Butler.

This is a valid point.

You're not competing for a title with Jimmy Butler as your best player.  Unless the definition of competing is making the playoffs.  Agree that if they swing the trade for Butler, then they're positioning for a run at KD.  This move along with an FA signing (Horford) can make Boston a viable option.

We were the #3 seed in the East for most of the second half of this season, and ended up losing that spot on a tiebreaker.

Toronto, the second best team in the East, was not that far outside of our reach.

It's really not that hard to envision us competing for a top 2 seed in the East if we added Butler, and I think Cleveland would have a very hard time knocking us off with both Thomas and Butler on the roster.

Also not adding Durant doesn't mean we don't add anybody else.  Adding Butler and one good big (Dwight, Gortat, Love, etc) could very easily transform us into a legit contender - even without Durant.

[crimson_stallion]

Better shooter- As of right now- Bradley.  At the same age- Call it a draw.

Nothing is indicative that Marcus will become a good shooter, Oracle, better check your crystal ball.   We have all seen him get hot and next game be dead cold.

You need to get your reading glasses because I never said he would.  The poster I quoted used an extremely small sample to try and suggest Bradley was always a good shooter which is just flat wrong.  It took him 4 years to get his range out to above the break 3's.  His shot charts were barf inducing back then.  Smart did shoot average numbers from 3 on volume as a rookie though and there is no reason to believe he will not do so or better again.  To write him off after witnessing many others greatly improve is crazy.

* Bradley in his second season shot 40.7% from three - Smart hasn't even managed 35% in his first two seasons. 

* Bradley in his second year shot 52.5% from 10-16 feet and shot 40% on two's outside of 16 feet.  Smart's career highs from those areas so far are 38% and 31%, respectively.

* Bradley shot 49% from the field in his second year - Smart has yet to break the 37% mark.

You also underrate Bradley's role in his second year.  He replaced Ray Allen as the starting SG for this team due to injury, and when Ray came back the team played so well with Bradley out there that Doc let him keep the starting spot.  Bradley could always defend, it was his ability to his shots (from midrange and from three) as well as defend that earned him the right to keep that starting spot - which he's held every year since.  Smart had the starting PG s[pt and lost it,

Smart shot poorly from three as a rookie.  He shot poorly from three in his second year.  He shot poorly from three in summer league.  He shot poorly from three in college.  He's shot poorly from midrange.  Even his free throw shooting has been up and down.  There's nothing on display to suggest he'll ever be as good a shooter as Bradley.

[Beat LA]

I don't get where this "Bradley couldn't shoot in the beginning of his career, either," thing comes from.  The guy hit .375 from 3 in college.  Sure, he only attempted 112 3s in 34 games and his free throw percentage was atrocious at .545, but at least from a perimeter shooting vantage point you could obviously see some ability and potential, while Smart, umm, yeah, lol .

[chambers]

Butler is not worth that much. Him alone is not even going to do it for #3 + Decent player + other decent player + Ainge's Chipotle bowl. Are you serious? We got 17 banners guys, there's no need for us to be this desperate.

He's a top 10 player.
Top 10 defender. Top 10 scorer for 80% of the season this year until his injury.
It's an easy deal and it's great value when there are no franchise options at #3.

[jpotter33]

Better shooter- As of right now- Bradley.  At the same age- Call it a draw.

Nothing is indicative that Marcus will become a good shooter, Oracle, better check your crystal ball.   We have all seen him get hot and next game be dead cold.

You need to get your reading glasses because I never said he would.  The poster I quoted used an extremely small sample to try and suggest Bradley was always a good shooter which is just flat wrong.  It took him 4 years to get his range out to above the break 3's.  His shot charts were barf inducing back then.  Smart did shoot average numbers from 3 on volume as a rookie though and there is no reason to believe he will not do so or better again.  To write him off after witnessing many others greatly improve is crazy.

* Bradley in his second season shot 40.7% from three - Smart hasn't even managed 35% in his first two seasons. 

* Bradley in his second year shot 52.5% from 10-16 feet and shot 40% on two's outside of 16 feet.  Smart's career highs from those areas so far are 38% and 31%, respectively.

* Bradley shot 49% from the field in his second year - Smart has yet to break the 37% mark.

You also underrate Bradley's role in his second year.  He replaced Ray Allen as the starting SG for this team due to injury, and when Ray came back the team played so well with Bradley out there that Doc let him keep the starting spot.  Bradley could always defend, it was his ability to his shots (from midrange and from three) as well as defend that earned him the right to keep that starting spot - which he's held every year since. Smart had the starting PG s[pt and lost it,

Smart shot poorly from three as a rookie.  He shot poorly from three in his second year.  He shot poorly from three in summer league.  He shot poorly from three in college.  He's shot poorly from midrange.  Even his free throw shooting has been up and down.  There's nothing on display to suggest he'll ever be as good a shooter as Bradley.

Apples and oranges. Smart lost his spot to a legitimate All-Star after having a significant injury keep him out for nearly a quarter of the season. Bradley took the place of a hobbled, way-past-his-prime  Ray Allen who couldn't defend anymore and had two bum ankles. Context matters here.

[Beat LA]

Butler is not worth that much. Him alone is not even going to do it for #3 + Decent player + other decent player + Ainge's Chipotle bowl. Are you serious? We got 17 banners guys, there's no need for us to be this desperate.

He's a top 10 player.
Top 10 defender. Top 10 scorer for 80% of the season this year until his injury.
It's an easy deal and it's great value when there are no franchise options at #3.

You don't think that there are any franchise players or whatever available at 3?

[crimson_stallion]

Butler is not worth that much. Him alone is not even going to do it for #3 + Decent player + other decent player + Ainge's Chipotle bowl. Are you serious? We got 17 banners guys, there's no need for us to be this desperate.

I say Dunn will be better than butler. I for one hope we trade 3 for a big with Phily.

It's certainly a possibility - I like Dunn a lot, I think he has a ton of potential. 

That said, Butler at 26 is already a two time All-Star and three time All-Defensive-Team selection.  It's by no means a given that Dunn will ever become as good as Butler - though it's not out of the question.

Butler is a top 2-3 SG in this league. That's pretty good.

[LooseCannon]

Butler is not worth that much. Him alone is not even going to do it for #3 + Decent player + other decent player + Ainge's Chipotle bowl. Are you serious? We got 17 banners guys, there's no need for us to be this desperate.

He's a top 10 player.
Top 10 defender. Top 10 scorer for 80% of the season this year until his injury.
It's an easy deal and it's great value when there are no franchise options at #3.

I'm not sure if he is top ten.  I've got Curry, Lebron, Durant, Westbrook, Kawhi, Millsap, Draymond Green, Chris Paul, Paul George, and I guess Lowry ahead.  Not necessarily in that order and probably missing a few names. 

Top twenty, certainly.  I'd probably put him on the same tier as Al Horford for this past season, but obviously not for projected value over the next three seasons.