Draymond Green suspended from game 5

[Ed Hollison]

Does anyone else have a problem with people referring to African Americans as thugs? I do. Call him a dirty player. Provide some links. Say look at what he did on that play.

But please don't refer to African Americans as thugs.

Yes, this is something we all do too often, mostly subconsciously. Agree.

Plus Draymond Green does not fit that description. It's not like he's the 12th man who's sent in there every now and again to instigate. He's arguably one of the most valuable players in the league and does pretty much everything well. Just so happens he's also a highly physical player and sometimes crosses the line. The guy is a winning basketball player, period.

[kozlodoev]

Green is dirty.  Should have been suspended for the Adams groin hit, and have no issue with his groin hit on James being called a flagrant as it was a flagrant foul.  If he wasn't so dirty the flagrant wouldn't have gotten him suspended.

Anything resulting from an altercation between two players is considered a technical foul.

This is not true:

A flagrant foul is unnecessary and/or excessive contact committed by a player against
an opponent whether the ball is dead or alive.

A technical foul is for unsportsmanlike behavior there is a large area of overlap. A altercation between players can be flagrant fouls, technical fouls, punching fouls, etc.

So did LeBron get a technical then for deliberately stepping over Green? Didn't think so.

[PhoSita]

Yes. While I'm sure nobody on these boards means to use that word in a racially motivated way, there is a racist history of the use of that word when it's used to refer to African American men in a derogatory manner. So probably best to avoid using it.


Here's what I want:

A live feed of Draymond watching the game tonight. Unfiltered. I want to listen to Draymond instead of Breen and Jackson et al.

[PhoSita]

Green is dirty.  Should have been suspended for the Adams groin hit, and have no issue with his groin hit on James being called a flagrant as it was a flagrant foul.  If he wasn't so dirty the flagrant wouldn't have gotten him suspended.

Anything resulting from an altercation between two players is considered a technical foul.

This is not true:

A flagrant foul is unnecessary and/or excessive contact committed by a player against
an opponent whether the ball is dead or alive.

A technical foul is for unsportsmanlike behavior there is a large area of overlap. A altercation between players can be flagrant fouls, technical fouls, punching fouls, etc.

So did LeBron get a technical then for deliberately stepping over Green? Didn't think so.

Actually yes he did. Retroactively.

[wiley]

I think LeBron was trying to start something with Green all game long. He knew what he was doing.

Probably disappointed that Green didn't do anything more egregious, but the Cavs were apparently able to lobby the NBA for what they needed anyway.

Good call.  And then, Lebron didn't even notice the hit.  He had to see it on film.  You can't give a flagrant for something a guy doesn't even feel (unless you throw a wild punch at someone's head that misses I guess).  This was a tap during a tangle.  Dumb time to call a flagrant.

I watched the play over and over again, regardless of your opinion on what the NBA did here one thing is incontrovertible LeBron reacted to something it was probably the hit to his groin area or perhaps something that Green said but he was turning his head before Green was in standing position.

Brian Windhorst has said Lebron didn't know about it until he showed him on his phone after the game in the locker room. He just got his feelings hurt, as Klay Thompsom said.
After seeing the video, he used the incident in his press conference to get Green suspended.

exactly.  They are punishing Green not for the play but for a general tendency, and or as a make-up call for something last series.  You can't do that in the NBA finals.  Get each call right, period.  Totally bogus call in this situation.  Suspend him for an actual flagrant next time he commits one, toughen up on him next year, but not this BS. 

[Rosco917]

thug
THəɡ/
noun
1.
a violent person, especially a criminal.


I'm not seeing a reference to African Americans in that definition. Unless you are insinuating people of a specific culture are all criminals. Lets not get overly PC.


No doubt about it Draymond is excessive in his physicality. He simply over does it. If he did, what he did, to a Celtic player we would all be happy for the suspension.

On the other hand the protection the NBA gives to LaBron James is so obvious. By LBJ stepping over Dray, as he did, it was taunting. It was unnecessary. Lebron should have also been sanctioned in some way. A double foul should have been called. But 'the" LaBro would have been unhappy, and immediately gone into the LBJ crying routine.

The refs in the NBA are so tainted in there call of the game, they can't see straight. Certain players are protected. LaBron is a major brand, as important as the NBA itself, in their eyes. And that's why so many will be rooting for the Warriors to win this series.     

[Fafnir]

Don't make the case for the word "thug" referring to African American players. You are not going to win and only going to make people question why you'd pick "that" fight.

Do you really want to be the guy following in the footsteps of Jay from Clerks II?

[Moranis]

I think LeBron was trying to start something with Green all game long. He knew what he was doing.

Probably disappointed that Green didn't do anything more egregious, but the Cavs were apparently able to lobby the NBA for what they needed anyway.

Good call.  And then, Lebron didn't even notice the hit.  He had to see it on film.  You can't give a flagrant for something a guy doesn't even feel (unless you throw a wild punch at someone's head that misses I guess).  This was a tap during a tangle.  Dumb time to call a flagrant.

I watched the play over and over again, regardless of your opinion on what the NBA did here one thing is incontrovertible LeBron reacted to something it was probably the hit to his groin area or perhaps something that Green said but he was turning his head before Green was in standing position.

Brian Windhorst has said Lebron didn't know about it until he showed him on his phone after the game in the locker room. He just got his feelings hurt, as Klay Thompsom said.
After seeing the video, he used the incident in his press conference to get Green suspended.

exactly.  They are punishing Green not for the play but for a general tendency, and or as a make-up call for something last series.  You can't do that in the NBA finals.  Get each call right, period.  Totally bogus call in this situation.  Suspend him for an actual flagrant next time he commits one, toughen up on him next year, but not this BS.

He committed a flagrant foul though.  The league looks all of those type of fouls, sometimes they downgrade calls, sometimes they upgrade them, and sometimes they correct missed calls.  That is what they did here.  James was given a technical for taunting and Green was given a flagrant for unnecessary contact in a non-basketball move.  Both were the correct call.  They should have been called that way on the Court, but weren't, but that doesn't mean they weren't the correct decisions.  If Green hadn't picked up a flagrant 1 and a flagrant 2 earlier in the playoffs he wouldn't have been suspended.  It really is that simple.

[alley oop]

I think LeBron was trying to start something with Green all game long. He knew what he was doing.

Probably disappointed that Green didn't do anything more egregious, but the Cavs were apparently able to lobby the NBA for what they needed anyway.

Good call.  And then, Lebron didn't even notice the hit.  He had to see it on film.  You can't give a flagrant for something a guy doesn't even feel (unless you throw a wild punch at someone's head that misses I guess).  This was a tap during a tangle.  Dumb time to call a flagrant.

I watched the play over and over again, regardless of your opinion on what the NBA did here one thing is incontrovertible LeBron reacted to something it was probably the hit to his groin area or perhaps something that Green said but he was turning his head before Green was in standing position.

Brian Windhorst has said Lebron didn't know about it until he showed him on his phone after the game in the locker room. He just got his feelings hurt, as Klay Thompsom said.
After seeing the video, he used the incident in his press conference to get Green suspended.

exactly.  They are punishing Green not for the play but for a general tendency, and or as a make-up call for something last series.  You can't do that in the NBA finals.  Get each call right, period.  Totally bogus call in this situation.  Suspend him for an actual flagrant next time he commits one, toughen up on him next year, but not this BS.

He committed a flagrant foul though.  The league looks all of those type of fouls, sometimes they downgrade calls, sometimes they upgrade them, and sometimes they correct missed calls.  That is what they did here.  James was given a technical for taunting and Green was given a flagrant for unnecessary contact in a non-basketball move.  Both were the correct call.  They should have been called that way on the Court, but weren't, but that doesn't mean they weren't the correct decisions.  If Green hadn't picked up a flagrant 1 and a flagrant 2 earlier in the playoffs he wouldn't have been suspended.  It really is that simple.

They could have made it a technical for both.  Lebron was riding him like a horse, dragging his stuff on his head, and Green made a minimal response. The flagrant is BS.

[meangreenmachine]

See, I've always thought of Bill Laimbeer as the quintessential NBA thug...I don't see Green as a thug. Dirty? Sometimes, especially the last two series, but far from a player of thug ball.

[MBunge]

Green was given a flagrant for unnecessary contact in a non-basketball move. 

Green was being fouled and waved his arm at the guy fouling him.  If that's a flagrant foul, every single game in the NBA would have to be stopped before halftime because every single player has been ejected.

There's no way that's a flagrant foul in that situation if Green flails at Stephen Adams.  And there's no way it's only a flagrant one is Green kicks LeBron square in the nuts.

Mike

[Moranis]

Green was given a flagrant for unnecessary contact in a non-basketball move. 

Green was being fouled and waved his arm at the guy fouling him.  If that's a flagrant foul, every single game in the NBA would have to be stopped before halftime because every single player has been ejected.

There's no way that's a flagrant foul in that situation if Green flails at Stephen Adams.  And there's no way it's only a flagrant one is Green kicks LeBron square in the nuts.

Mike

except Green wasn't being fouled when he committed the flagrant.  He was already on the ground and James was walking over him (correctly given a technical for that taunt).  Green stood up into James and then swung his arm twice, once hitting James in the junk and once missing entirely.  That is pretty obviously a flagrant foul and frankly if Green wouldn't have already had 3 points no one would be talking about it, but because Green keeps getting flagrant fouls and this one put him over the point limit, he got suspended.  If this was his 1st point no one says anything about the call.

[alley oop]

Diamond Leung ‏@diamond83 1h1 hour ago

Mychal Thompson: "LeBron (James) couldn't have survived in the 80s with the physicality and the words guys said to each other back then."

[Hank Finkel]

Green is dirty.  Should have been suspended for the Adams groin hit, and have no issue with his groin hit on James being called a flagrant as it was a flagrant foul.  If he wasn't so dirty the flagrant wouldn't have gotten him suspended.

Except it wasn't a flagrant foul, that is a technical foul.  Anything resulting from an altercation between two players is considered a technical foul.

But Green needed two techs to get a suspension and only 1 flagrant foul point to get suspended, easy to see why the NBA went against protocol and assigned it as a flagrant.

But that's the NBA, they make this stuff up as they go, and always have.

I agree here.  that was not flagrant at all.  The NBA is almost unwatchable because of their rulings and poor refereeing.  Almost everything is subjective and can be manipulated. 

[Donoghus]

Diamond Leung ‏@diamond83 1h1 hour ago

Mychal Thompson: "LeBron (James) couldn't have survived in the 80s with the physicality and the words guys said to each other back then."

He'd definitely survive the physical aspect of it.  You just have to look at his body & his game to realize that. 

Mentally?  I think he'd have to make an adjustment.  This coddled, "kick & screaming" attitude wouldn't have endeared him much back then.    Of course, you could make the argument that if he came into the league in 1983 rather 2003, his temperament would've been better to begin with.