Revisiting Sully

[walker834]

What happens if nobody offers him a deal. Do the Celts have to sign him? Or if the Celts don't he becomes a ufa?

Gota feeling if nobody signs him, Danny will for a 3 year 6-7 million  a year

I think we can relinquish our rights on him. We have rights which means we can also relinquish them and he becomes unrestricted. the celtics haven't done that as of yet though is the point.  So there's still a chance lol.

Ainge is going to let everything and the process to play out anyways.  Keeping him restricted causes other teams to bid etc..  Keeps options open for sign and trades etc I believe as well.

He has a $3.2 million qualifying offer. If we extend a QO, he becomes a RFA. If he is a RFA, we have the right to match each offer he gets. If he doesn't get any offers (including from the Celtics), he can just sign the QO and play for that.

If he signs the QO we have effectively signed him, so yeah -- he has to play for us. To the extent to which the QO is a cap hold as soon as it becomes extended, this is largely an irrelevant scenario, though. I am not sure what the rules are about rescinding QOs.

Also, Wyc's "two max contracts" only work if we non-tended Sullinger, Johnson, Jerebko and Turner, so I'm not sure it's really going to happen the way he describes it.

Ah ok.  Thanks for clarifying.  Makes sense.  So if we want to relinquish our rights we just don't extend a qualifying offer and he becomes unrestricted? 

I wonder if we will even do that depending on what else we can do with that money.

[LooseCannon]

I would consider offering him a two year overpay with the second year unguaranteed, pending a lack of other moves, but I'd start Jerebko over him.  He can't be traded without his consent if he accepts the qualifying offer.

[saltlover]

What happens if nobody offers him a deal. Do the Celts have to sign him? Or if the Celts don't he becomes a ufa?

Gota feeling if nobody signs him, Danny will for a 3 year 6-7 million  a year

I think we can relinquish our rights on him. We have rights which means we can also relinquish them and he becomes unrestricted. the celtics haven't done that as of yet though is the point.  So there's still a chance lol.

Ainge is going to let everything and the process to play out anyways.  Keeping him restricted causes other teams to bid etc..  Keeps options open for sign and trades etc I believe as well.

He has a $3.2 million qualifying offer. If we extend a QO, he becomes a RFA. If he is a RFA, we have the right to match each offer he gets. If he doesn't get any offers (including from the Celtics), he can just sign the QO and play for that.

If he signs the QO we have effectively signed him, so yeah -- he has to play for us. To the extent to which the QO is a cap hold as soon as it becomes extended, this is largely an irrelevant scenario, though. I am not sure what the rules are about rescinding QOs.

Also, Wyc's "two max contracts" only work if we non-tended Sullinger, Johnson, Jerebko and Turner, so I'm not sure it's really going to happen the way he describes it.

A few things:

1) Sully's QO will be $4.43 million, because he met the starter criteria, which gives him the same QO as the 9th pick in his draft.  Any other number you read is wrong.

2) His cap hold is $5.67 million.  If we do not renounce him, regardless of whether or not we've extended a QO, he will count this much against our cap until he is signed.  If he signs the QO, he obviously then takes up the amount of his new contract.

3) The QO can be rescinded unilaterally until July 23rd, assuming he hasn't signed it by then.  If the Celtics need the space for a free agent, they can take back the offer and renounce him, making him an unrestricted free agent with no Bird rights.

4) The Celtics CAN keep some combination of Turner, Sullinger, Jerebko, and maybe even Amir, AND sign two max free agents -- depending, of course, on what a given free agent's max contract is.  They've got room for Durant and Horford, but Barnes and Whiteside would each command about $5.5 million less if given the max, creating $11 million more cap space if both were signed instead of Durant and Horford.  If they get one from Column A and one from Column B, they could keep one of Turner, Sullinger, and Jerebko.  Depending where their draft picks finish up, how high the cap goes, and a few other details, the C's could have a lot of wiggle room even after two maxes.

[hwangjini_1]

Somebody will give Sully at least three years.

Somebody will give him at least 12-14 million per year.

I'm not sure if anybody will offer both.


Either way, I'd say buh-bye.

The Celts can do better.  Worst case scenario, just start Jerebko and give Mickey the backup minutes.

yep. this sums things up fairly well for me. i have always liked sully and thought he could turn into an above average, non-all star pf in the nba. his rebounding is well above average.

but he just doesnt seem to be that determined to succeed and excel. so be it.

sorry to see him go, but i think ainge can replace his production for less money.

[jambr380]

What happens if nobody offers him a deal. Do the Celts have to sign him? Or if the Celts don't he becomes a ufa?

Gota feeling if nobody signs him, Danny will for a 3 year 6-7 million  a year

I think we can relinquish our rights on him. We have rights which means we can also relinquish them and he becomes unrestricted. the celtics haven't done that as of yet though is the point.  So there's still a chance lol.

Ainge is going to let everything and the process to play out anyways.  Keeping him restricted causes other teams to bid etc..  Keeps options open for sign and trades etc I believe as well.

He has a $3.2 million qualifying offer. If we extend a QO, he becomes a RFA. If he is a RFA, we have the right to match each offer he gets. If he doesn't get any offers (including from the Celtics), he can just sign the QO and play for that.

If he signs the QO we have effectively signed him, so yeah -- he has to play for us. To the extent to which the QO is a cap hold as soon as it becomes extended, this is largely an irrelevant scenario, though. I am not sure what the rules are about rescinding QOs.

Also, Wyc's "two max contracts" only work if we non-tended Sullinger, Johnson, Jerebko and Turner, so I'm not sure it's really going to happen the way he describes it.

A few things:

1) Sully's QO will be $4.43 million, because he met the starter criteria, which gives him the same QO as the 9th pick in his draft.  Any other number you read is wrong.

2) His cap hold is $5.67 million.  If we do not renounce him, regardless of whether or not we've extended a QO, he will count this much against our cap until he is signed.  If he signs the QO, he obviously then takes up the amount of his new contract.

3) The QO can be rescinded unilaterally until July 23rd, assuming he hasn't signed it by then.  If the Celtics need the space for a free agent, they can take back the offer and renounce him, making him an unrestricted free agent with no Bird rights.

4) The Celtics CAN keep some combination of Turner, Sullinger, Jerebko, and maybe even Amir, AND sign two max free agents -- depending, of course, on what a given free agent's max contract is.  They've got room for Durant and Horford, but Barnes and Whiteside would each command about $5.5 million less if given the max, creating $11 million more cap space if both were signed instead of Durant and Horford.  If they get one from Column A and one from Column B, they could keep one of Turner, Sullinger, and Jerebko.  Depending where their draft picks finish up, how high the cap goes, and a few other details, the C's could have a lot of wiggle room even after two maxes.

Obvious TP - These are all extremely relevant facts to our team and our off-season spending. This should probably be posted somewhere than on the 2nd page of a thread that will soon fade away.

[makaveli]

he still has a lot of potential, but i don't think we are that team any more, where we can afford to gamble big time on a 4 year player that has weight problems, it is time for him to move on, Philla, NY, NJ, LA, all good teams for him to resurrect his game(body)

[Tr1boy]

The issue I find with Sullinger is that "he does not  want it bad enough"

After games he could do 30 min extra cycling session.  Is it hard? is it stressful?   Yes. 

Not everyone needs to do it, actually maybe a detriment, but Sully NEEDS to

He needs to eat super clean.   Like no pizza, junk food for the long term. 

Otherwise if he is ok just being a role player well that is what he is going to get accustomed to


On the other hand, watch KO come next season even in better shape,  expand his game somehow. 

[2short]

Somebody will give Sully at least three years.

Somebody will give him at least 12-14 million per year.

I'm not sure if anybody will offer both.


Either way, I'd say buh-bye.

The Celts can do better.  Worst case scenario, just start Jerebko and give Mickey the backup minutes.

yep. this sums things up fairly well for me. i have always liked sully and thought he could turn into an above average, non-all star pf in the nba. his rebounding is well above average.

but he just doesnt seem to be that determined to succeed and excel. so be it.

sorry to see him go, but i think ainge can replace his production for less money.

Sully really seems to lack fire when he plays.  Lots of skills, I'm less worried about his weight than work effort etc.  I think JJ and Mickey out rebound him when it matters.

[Rosco917]

nope, he blew it, couldn't even stay in shape on a contract year. Has already had a fractured foot and back surgery because of the weight. His health isn't going to magically get better as he ages, especially with that body and poor work ethic/ attitude.

See ya Sully.

This ^^ about sums it up for me...
Unless he comes on a very team friendly contract for short years...He's a short minute player, lacking stamina to compete long team.

I would be disappointed if the C's fail to upgrade our bigs this year, under the present circumstances.

[LooseCannon]

Maybe the best thing for Sullinger would be to eat himself out of the league, have to play in Europe or China to rebuild his value, and come back to the NBA as a more humble, less entitled player who embraces a role as an energy big off the bench.

Might want to avoid the Italian league, though.

[Fred Roberts]

Love Sully's skill set around the basket, but the lack of fitness has made the Celtics (and my) decision. I think he's set free . ..

He's needs to lose about 30 before we can seriously talk about him as a player to invest dollars in. Shocking contract year. Still showed flashes of real potential, but it was overshadowed by beefiness and orange mohawk.

I wish him well, whether he's here or not. Really hope he can get his nutritional game together.

[Celtics4ever]

He needs to go, hurts the team year after year with not being reliable because he lacks discipline.  He has some talent, but has always been not athletic, these problems are magnified by his weight issues.

Time to let him walk.  Completely unreliable since 3/20 of this year and vanished when we needed him the most.

[spikelovetheCelts]

I think Ainge has an opportunity to really revamp our big men this offseason though which means Sully might be gone.  He might not be though.  Getting rid of Sully might be a big part of that revamp.  It might not. This is why Ainge gets paid the big bucks though to look at it logically and figure that out.

ainge will make him qualifying offer and wait to see what the Market bears for him and if he choses to match. He will do this for Zeller too. Both q offers are friendly so if no one sign them. DA will have a bargain rotation player. But Both will get more than QO money.

[rondohondo]

Horford got multiple alley oops this playoffs when sully was guarding him. He simply can't defend at a contending level, offers no rim protection, or pick and roll D .  He also doesn't have the stamina to be anything other than a backup on a contending team, definitely not worth investing long term money in .

[ThePaintedArea]

  He still did average 10 and 8 for us last year in limited minutes. 

Actually, he averaged rotation minutes, and in fact more than any of the Celtics' other bigs. Posters who are so quick to disparage him might consider that Brad Stevens, for one, liked having him on the floor.

I feel like if Sully had a ton of value around the league he would have been dealt in ways already. He probably doesn't although Ainge still might be able to work out a deal as well.

We live in an era where GM's take advanced stats seriously. Yes, there's a market for him.