Dragan Bender

[LooseCannon]

This is the whole thing with Dragan Bender.  He doesn't have any real major flaws, but he doesn't have any real major stand-out talents either.   The biggest selling point is the fact that he is only 18 years old, and so you hope he can surprise us all and take his game to a whole other level.  That's a big risk though.  He may well just develop into a pretty good all round player who isn't great at anything.

I think it's very unlikely Bender will be a complete bust.  He should (at the very least) be a quality starting center in the NBA for many years.  I just question his upside - does he really have the talent to develop into a big star?  I'm not so sure.

This is where bringing a player in and getting into his head matters.  If he has an elite motor, bbiq, and work ethic, he can be as valuable as Kawhi Leonard.  If he doesn't, he could be a bust.  If Bender is strong in those areas, i would take him over a big man with prototypical size and elite athleticism who is questionable between the ears.

[crimson_stallion]

This is the whole thing with Dragan Bender.  He doesn't have any real major flaws, but he doesn't have any real major stand-out talents either.   The biggest selling point is the fact that he is only 18 years old, and so you hope he can surprise us all and take his game to a whole other level.  That's a big risk though.  He may well just develop into a pretty good all round player who isn't great at anything.

I think it's very unlikely Bender will be a complete bust.  He should (at the very least) be a quality starting center in the NBA for many years.  I just question his upside - does he really have the talent to develop into a big star?  I'm not so sure.

This is where bringing a player in and getting into his head matters.  If he has an elite motor, bbiq, and work ethic, he can be as valuable as Kawhi Leonard.  If he doesn't, he could be a bust.  If Bender is strong in those areas, i would take him over a big man with prototypical size and elite athleticism who is questionable between the ears.

Kawhi Leonard is really not comparable to Bender though.

Leonard always had a ridiculous wingspan for the SF spot, outstanding athleticism, excellent physical strength, and excellent mental toughness (with a 'never back down' attitude).

Guys who have those attributes tend to become outstanding defensive players, but Bender lacks in a few of those areas.  He greatly lacks physical strength, his wingspan is actually only good (rather than amazing) at the PF spot, and he doesn't seem to have a lot of mental toughness.  Even if his motor and work ethic are high, he still looks like somebody who could be easily pushed around - something you cannot say about Leonard ever.

Before somebody questions my comment about his length it's worth noting that Bender is 7'1" with a 7'2" wingspan.  Jared Sullinger is only 6'9" and has a 7'1" wingspan.  Bender certainly doesn't have a disadvantage in terms of wingspan, but he doesn't have the type of advantage a lot of people seem to think he has.  Dwight Howard for example is only 6'10" and yet he has a 7'5" wingspan.  Lemarcus Aldridge is 6'11" and has a 7'5" wingspan.  Pau Gasol is 7'0" and has a 7'5" wingspan.  Tim Duncan is 7'0" and has a 7'5" wingspan.  Zach Randolph is 6'9" and has a 7'5" wingspan.  From memory Dirk also has a wingspan in the 7'5" range.

There are a lot of big men in this league who are a lot longer then Bender is, and there are certainly a lot of big men who are a lot stronger then Bender is, so unless he can prove he has superior skill (which I'm not seeing at this point) he might well struggle to score and defend against elite NBA bigs.

Simmons has the same problem as far as length goes (even moreso, in fact) but he can somewhat make up for that with elite physical strength, elite athleticism and a rediculous array of skills.

People compare Bender to Porzingis, but Poirzingis is 7'3"+ with a 7'6" wingspan and is already a very skilled shooter and a very capable scorer.  Bender lacks that major physical advantage, and looks less skilled (although he is two years younger then Porzingis too).

[Celtics4ever]

Everyone of these guys produced in games better than Bender.  Some of these guys scored 20 PPG in college.   Something Dragan has never done.   One could make an argument for years our amateur college guys were better given the Olympics too. 

Here are Porzingas stats in Europe.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/euro/players/kristaps-porzingis-1.html

Here are Dragan's

http://www.basketball-reference.com/euro/players/dragan-bender-1.html

Here are his supposed better Israeli stats

http://basketball.realgm.com/player/Dragan-Bender/Summary/41582

Pretty underwhelming folks.  There is more hype than substance, the above are stats not opinion. 

[crimson_stallion]

Everyone of these guys produced in games better than Bender.  Some of these guys scored 20 PPG in college.   Something Dragan has never done.   One could make an argument for years our amateur college guys were better given the Olympics too. 

Here are Porzingas stats in Europe.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/euro/players/kristaps-porzingis-1.html

Here are Dragan's

http://www.basketball-reference.com/euro/players/dragan-bender-1.html

Here are his supposed better Israeli stats

http://basketball.realgm.com/player/Dragan-Bender/Summary/41582

Pretty underwhelming folks.  There is more hype than substance, the above are stats not opinion.

I tend to agree.

I've looked a the skills he has and the style of game he plays.  I've looked at the stats he's putting up. 

Nowhere in what I've see do I see a future NBA star.

I feel like Bender's sample size is so darn small that judging his potential as an NBA player based on his TINY euro sample size would be the equivalent of judging Jordan Mickey's ability to be a star based on his tiny NBA sample size.

Even worse, actually, because at least Mickey has produced against NBA competition in the Summer League, the pre-season, and in NBA games. Bender hasn't even had a glimpse at NBA competitions, and he has barely even had playing time against professional European competition.

I can certainly see that he has talent and skills, and I could see him becoming an NBA player - maybe a good one.  But I don't see big star potential here at all.  I certainly don't see anything even approaching Simmons/Ingram/Hield talent.

A very, very, very high risk to take Bender at #3.  Too high a risk, I think, for what seems to be not especially high upside.

I'm not ballsy enough to take that kind of risk with a pick so high in the draft.  At #5, #6 or #7 maybe I consider taking that gamble.   At #3 I want to take someone with more clear upside and a more proven NBA-ready talent.

[ederson]

I`m keep saying that... Bender hasn`t shown anything that labels him lottery prospect.
His stats with Maccabi are mediocre although the  level of the Israeli league is very low.

I get the boy VS men argument although it wasn`t a problem for Rubio for example...

His stats in youth competitions are not extraordinary too.

There is more to scouting than checking stats but a 3ppg player in Israel , won`t turn into an all star ...

[rollie mass]

i like jaylen brown and danny wanted winslow this kid is 19 is explosive and has elite athleticism likes contact--jaylen brown ,crowder,smart and rozier those are some strong guys with length

[rollie mass]

danny should take risks with bigs that are in at bottom of first round not early-teach brown  how to shoot
porzingis even though playing in spain marveled at weight room access and food
some of these euro players grew up a different kind of tough and have work ethic
porzingis for example
you can't expect these skinny 7 footers to bang against the big kids -it hurts and they just don't have the mass -they get knocked underneath and when up in the air and without lower body mass' what can they do--so they develope perimeter skills and passing not low post stuff

[Moranis]

I`m keep saying that... Bender hasn`t shown anything that labels him lottery prospect.
His stats with Maccabi are mediocre although the  level of the Israeli league is very low.

I get the boy VS men argument although it wasn`t a problem for Rubio for example...

His stats in youth competitions are not extraordinary too.

There is more to scouting than checking stats but a 3ppg player in Israel , won`t turn into an all star ...

Big man take a lot longer to physically develop than smaller guys.  The mental game is often harder for the smaller guys, but big men just can't compete until they hit their 20's at an absolute minimum.  They just don't compare physically.

[TheSundanceKid]

It's interesting that people question his mental toughness. I've always thought of that as one of his strengths. He seems to have a confidence about him when he goes to the rim and he comes across in interviews as quite driven.
He's had to deal with some injuries this year that have kept him out but the stories from his coaches say that he was constantly pulling at the leash to get back in.

Where have people got the lack of mental toughness from?

[kozlodoev]

People compare Bender to Porzingis, but Poirzingis is 7'3"+ with a 7'6" wingspan and is already a very skilled shooter and a very capable scorer.

Uh-huh. Also... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BE5TdbijIeo

Porzingis is 7'1.25 barefoot, that's kind of reasonably well documented (https://twitter.com/chadfordinsider/status/613163586706407425).

[ederson]

Big man take a lot longer to physically develop than smaller guys.  The mental game is often harder for the smaller guys, but big men just can't compete until they hit their 20's at an absolute minimum.  They just don't compare physically.

Fair point.... Still doesn`t change much
Check the youth tournaments at fibaeurope.Playing against similarly "undeveloped" players is still very average. I`d take  Charalampopoulos over him any day!

[mmmmm]

I can't really think of a fair comp to Bender.

How does he compare to Dario Saric?  Are they similar at all?

Taller, longer, much more defensively inclined than Saric. Saric has better handles and offensive control but Bender has better shooting mechanics (although both are solid).

Bender is like a tall skinny version of Draymond Green and Saric is more of a point forward with straight line drives like Jeff Green.

I concur with this comparison, though Saric is also very much an, "alpha dog" type player.  Has a knack for 'making plays'.  He's very aggressive and competitive and I would not be surprised to see him become the leading scorer of any team he is on, even after he comes to the NBA.

Folks should not be too put off by Bender's limited minutes this year.  He was playing 30 mpg and dominating his fellow 18 & unders last year as a 17 year old in the Juniors.   This year, he just turned 18 last November and is playing on a team dominated by 27-32 year old veterans, some with NBA experience.

Folks also shouldn't be looking at Bender as somehow benefiting from a "Portzingis effect" because Bender has been getting tracked & scouted since he emerged on the Adidas EuroCamp scene as a 15 year old three years ago and was added to 2016 Mock draft projections well before Porzingis sailed up last year's draft.

[kozlodoev]

Folks also shouldn't be looking at Bender as somehow benefiting from a "Portzingis effect" because Bender has been getting tracked & scouted since he emerged on the Adidas EuroCamp scene as a 15 year old three years ago and was added to 2016 Mock draft projections well before Porzingis sailed up last year's draft.

I don't think Bender was anywhere close to a top 3 projected pick before Porzingis happened.

[hwangjini_1]

This is the whole thing with Dragan Bender.  He doesn't have any real major flaws, but he doesn't have any real major stand-out talents either.   The biggest selling point is the fact that he is only 18 years old, and so you hope he can surprise us all and take his game to a whole other level.  That's a big risk though.  He may well just develop into a pretty good all round player who isn't great at anything.

I think it's very unlikely Bender will be a complete bust.  He should (at the very least) be a quality starting center in the NBA for many years.  I just question his upside - does he really have the talent to develop into a big star?  I'm not so sure.

This is where bringing a player in and getting into his head matters.  If he has an elite motor, bbiq, and work ethic, he can be as valuable as Kawhi Leonard.  If he doesn't, he could be a bust.  If Bender is strong in those areas, i would take him over a big man with prototypical size and elite athleticism who is questionable between the ears.

Kawhi Leonard is really not comparable to Bender though.

Leonard always had a ridiculous wingspan for the SF spot, outstanding athleticism, excellent physical strength, and excellent mental toughness (with a 'never back down' attitude).

Guys who have those attributes tend to become outstanding defensive players, but Bender lacks in a few of those areas.  He greatly lacks physical strength, his wingspan is actually only good (rather than amazing) at the PF spot, and he doesn't seem to have a lot of mental toughness.  Even if his motor and work ethic are high, he still looks like somebody who could be easily pushed around - something you cannot say about Leonard ever.

Before somebody questions my comment about his length it's worth noting that Bender is 7'1" with a 7'2" wingspan.  Jared Sullinger is only 6'9" and has a 7'1" wingspan.  Bender certainly doesn't have a disadvantage in terms of wingspan, but he doesn't have the type of advantage a lot of people seem to think he has.  Dwight Howard for example is only 6'10" and yet he has a 7'5" wingspan.  Lemarcus Aldridge is 6'11" and has a 7'5" wingspan.  Pau Gasol is 7'0" and has a 7'5" wingspan.  Tim Duncan is 7'0" and has a 7'5" wingspan.  Zach Randolph is 6'9" and has a 7'5" wingspan.  From memory Dirk also has a wingspan in the 7'5" range.

There are a lot of big men in this league who are a lot longer then Bender is, and there are certainly a lot of big men who are a lot stronger then Bender is, so unless he can prove he has superior skill (which I'm not seeing at this point) he might well struggle to score and defend against elite NBA bigs.

Simmons has the same problem as far as length goes (even moreso, in fact) but he can somewhat make up for that with elite physical strength, elite athleticism and a rediculous array of skills.

People compare Bender to Porzingis, but Poirzingis is 7'3"+ with a 7'6" wingspan and is already a very skilled shooter and a very capable scorer.  Bender lacks that major physical advantage, and looks less skilled (although he is two years younger then Porzingis too).

just a small point. wingspan does not measure length. this measurement is affected by the width of a player's chest/shoulders. some people may have longer arms, but shorter wingspan due to a narrower chest/shoulder width.

wingspan is different from both arm length and standing reach. the latter is more telling in terms of assessing ability to reach high for rebounds.

bender has a 9' 3" standing reach. howard's is 9' 5", sully's is 8' 9.5", porzingis' 9' 4", aldridge's is 9' 2", and so on.

when looking at standing reach bender does more favorably.

i am not saying that wingspan plays no role. only that for centers standing reach may be the more telling measurement. and of course vertical, etc. play roles as well.

[Spilling Green Dye]

I just don't see it with this kid.  His rebounding, as one example, was awful in the videos.  He didn't box out, found himself right under the hoop numerous times, barely could jump, and all too often tried to rebound by slapping the ball (b/c he was in such poor position).  There's numerous other aspects of his game that jumped out too... I just don't think he's a top 5 pick in this draft.