Author Topic: I Feel Like Ainge's Entire Tenure has Lead to This Summer.  (Read 14635 times)

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Re: I Feel Like Ainge's Entire Tenure has Lead to This Summer.
« Reply #45 on: April 11, 2016, 05:18:06 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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To understand the premise, I have to first go on a bit of a tangent. 

My family is from the Boston.  My dad has always been a diehard Celtic fan.  I grew up loving the team.  I was born in 1982.

Hey kid!  Get off my lawn!!
Lol

Re: I Feel Like Ainge's Entire Tenure has Lead to This Summer.
« Reply #46 on: April 11, 2016, 07:27:12 PM »

Offline mctyson

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Very insightful take - Danny new KG was a transcendent/generational talent but also stated consistently that it was a '3 year plan' with him.  I think it's exactly what he wanted (probably is still p.o.'d that we didn't get one more banner out of that squad).

Re: I Feel Like Ainge's Entire Tenure has Lead to This Summer.
« Reply #47 on: April 11, 2016, 08:18:33 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Very insightful take - Danny new KG was a transcendent/generational talent but also stated consistently that it was a '3 year plan' with him.  I think it's exactly what he wanted (probably is still p.o.'d that we didn't get one more banner out of that squad).
That team should have won 2.  Such a shame.  But we're still feeling the reverberations of that squad.  Outside of Boston, nobody cared about the Celtics in the 90s and early 00s.  These days, we remain one of the major teams in the league even though we're pretty middle of the pack at the moment. 

Re: I Feel Like Ainge's Entire Tenure has Lead to This Summer.
« Reply #48 on: April 11, 2016, 09:07:41 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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Danny has made the moves now we need the basketball gods to smile down on us.  Several pieces have fallen into place.  Now we need some luck.  I think there is a large element of chance when it comes to drafting (not just obvious lottery) and I think there is also a small element of chance when it comes to FAs.

I don't envision a big trade anymore.  I used to think that was going to be the path.  Now I see us getting a draft pick and a FA plus some more minor trades to make the roster work.  I know that getting a draft pick is obvious but what I mean is we have a chance at a difference maker but we need some luck.


Re: I Feel Like Ainge's Entire Tenure has Lead to This Summer.
« Reply #49 on: April 11, 2016, 10:10:47 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Danny has made the moves now we need the basketball gods to smile down on us.  Several pieces have fallen into place.  Now we need some luck.  I think there is a large element of chance when it comes to drafting (not just obvious lottery) and I think there is also a small element of chance when it comes to FAs.

I don't envision a big trade anymore.  I used to think that was going to be the path.  Now I see us getting a draft pick and a FA plus some more minor trades to make the roster work.  I know that getting a draft pick is obvious but what I mean is we have a chance at a difference maker but we need some luck.
I agree.  We'll need luck.   But I feel like there are a bunch of fall-back options.  Ideally, we probably want Ben Simmons, Durant and Horford.   But maybe Durant snubs us, we fall to 4-6 in the draft and explore going after Blake Griffin or Cousins via trade.  If not them, maybe Kevin Love.  If not them, maybe Carmelo Anthony.   Maybe we go after second tier players like Derozan.  Maybe we fall in love with someone in the 4-6 pick range.  Who knows... but the team is positioned about as good as a team can be heading into the Summer.  Get pumped.

Re: I Feel Like Ainge's Entire Tenure has Lead to This Summer.
« Reply #50 on: April 12, 2016, 04:59:10 AM »

Offline LatterDayCelticsfan

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Or alternatively we consolidate some of our collection of picks into a Jahlil Okafor, or a Willie Caulie Stein, or some other young gun. They have a break out year and become the difference makers for this roster.
Ruto Must Go!

Re: I Feel Like Ainge's Entire Tenure has Lead to This Summer.
« Reply #51 on: April 12, 2016, 07:28:46 AM »

Offline trickybilly

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Man it's sad watching Reggie. that guy was going to be a 17-year HOFer.

KO could learn a thing or two by watching Larry about fast and decisive pump fakes too..
"Gimme the ball, gimme the ball". Freddy Quimby, 1994.

Re: I Feel Like Ainge's Entire Tenure has Lead to This Summer.
« Reply #52 on: April 12, 2016, 08:24:35 AM »

Offline The One

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Danny has made the moves now we need the basketball gods to smile down on us.  Several pieces have fallen into place.  Now we need some luck.  I think there is a large element of chance when it comes to drafting (not just obvious lottery) and I think there is also a small element of chance when it comes to FAs.

I don't envision a big trade anymore.  I used to think that was going to be the path.  Now I see us getting a draft pick and a FA plus some more minor trades to make the roster work.  I know that getting a draft pick is obvious but what I mean is we have a chance at a difference maker but we need some luck.
I agree.  We'll need luck.   But I feel like there are a bunch of fall-back options.  Ideally, we probably want Ben Simmons, Durant and Horford.   But maybe Durant snubs us, we fall to 4-6 in the draft and explore going after Blake Griffin or Cousins via trade.  If not them, maybe Kevin Love.  If not them, maybe Carmelo Anthony.   Maybe we go after second tier players like Derozan.  Maybe we fall in love with someone in the 4-6 pick range.  Who knows... but the team is positioned about as good as a team can be heading into the Summer.  Get pumped.

Yes, this is huge...having options.  It's not smart to put all of your eggs in one basket.

Contingency upon contingency...then execute at the proper time.

Man...I can do this GM stuff... ;D ;D ;D

Re: I Feel Like Ainge's Entire Tenure has Lead to This Summer.
« Reply #53 on: April 12, 2016, 12:33:47 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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I was browsing a bit in response to the various, "let's revisit our predictions from last summer!" threads and I found this article I wrote as a CB fanpost three years ago:

http://www.celticsblog.com/2013/2/22/4016162/doom-despair-or-danny-has-a-plan

This was my intro:

Quote
Just to get the punch line out of the way: Yes. Danny has a plan.

Actually - he has more than one plan. But they all lead basically to the same place - rebooting the team as a contender somewhere around 2016. So collectively, let's call them: The Plan

There is a lot of discussion of roster & contract details only relevant at the time (some look stupid in hindsight) but leading to the punch line summary:

Quote
In summary: Relax.

All roads through The Plan(tm) in the end, lead to a similar destination: Acquire the next superstar players somewhere around the 2016 season. Depending on the market, we may have to wait a year or so after that point. But that's the point at which Danny will have the tools to pull the big trigger.

The main point of the article is that Danny laid out contracts and roster construction starting years ago that basically have, indeed lead up to this point, right now.   If you paid attention to what he was doing back then, you could see it coming.  Sorta.  Obviously, as the article points out, there were a lot of optional paths along the way, but they all were leading here.

I'm guessing (based on Ainge's own comments) that getting Isaiah a year early was probably a bit of a deviation - found gold as it were - but Danny's plan seems pretty clearly robust enough to have taken that sort of variable in.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: I Feel Like Ainge's Entire Tenure has Lead to This Summer.
« Reply #54 on: April 12, 2016, 01:21:44 PM »

Offline TheTruthFot18

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I was browsing a bit in response to the various, "let's revisit our predictions from last summer!" threads and I found this article I wrote as a CB fanpost three years ago:

http://www.celticsblog.com/2013/2/22/4016162/doom-despair-or-danny-has-a-plan

This was my intro:

Quote
Just to get the punch line out of the way: Yes. Danny has a plan.

Actually - he has more than one plan. But they all lead basically to the same place - rebooting the team as a contender somewhere around 2016. So collectively, let's call them: The Plan

There is a lot of discussion of roster & contract details only relevant at the time (some look stupid in hindsight) but leading to the punch line summary:

Quote
In summary: Relax.

All roads through The Plan(tm) in the end, lead to a similar destination: Acquire the next superstar players somewhere around the 2016 season. Depending on the market, we may have to wait a year or so after that point. But that's the point at which Danny will have the tools to pull the big trigger.

The main point of the article is that Danny laid out contracts and roster construction starting years ago that basically have, indeed lead up to this point, right now.   If you paid attention to what he was doing back then, you could see it coming.  Sorta.  Obviously, as the article points out, there were a lot of optional paths along the way, but they all were leading here.

I'm guessing (based on Ainge's own comments) that getting Isaiah a year early was probably a bit of a deviation - found gold as it were - but Danny's plan seems pretty clearly robust enough to have taken that sort of variable in.

TP for being able to call 2016 as the big summer. This was a good guess since as of the article you linked, Paul Pierce and KG were still wearing green and the season hadn't ended. How could anyone know the haul we would get for them? We could of easily gotten an immediate impact young player (thinking like the Jeff Green trade) that could of sold DA on moving the two of them without getting any future picks back, maybe the following year (think James Young pick) as opposed to a lotto pick (2016-2018). 
The Nets will finish with the worst record and the Celtics will end up with the 4th pick.

- Me (sometime in January)

--------------------------------------------------------

Guess I was wrong (May 23rd)

Re: I Feel Like Ainge's Entire Tenure has Lead to This Summer.
« Reply #55 on: April 12, 2016, 02:38:30 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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I was browsing a bit in response to the various, "let's revisit our predictions from last summer!" threads and I found this article I wrote as a CB fanpost three years ago:

http://www.celticsblog.com/2013/2/22/4016162/doom-despair-or-danny-has-a-plan

This was my intro:

Quote
Just to get the punch line out of the way: Yes. Danny has a plan.

Actually - he has more than one plan. But they all lead basically to the same place - rebooting the team as a contender somewhere around 2016. So collectively, let's call them: The Plan

There is a lot of discussion of roster & contract details only relevant at the time (some look stupid in hindsight) but leading to the punch line summary:

Quote
In summary: Relax.

All roads through The Plan(tm) in the end, lead to a similar destination: Acquire the next superstar players somewhere around the 2016 season. Depending on the market, we may have to wait a year or so after that point. But that's the point at which Danny will have the tools to pull the big trigger.

The main point of the article is that Danny laid out contracts and roster construction starting years ago that basically have, indeed lead up to this point, right now.   If you paid attention to what he was doing back then, you could see it coming.  Sorta.  Obviously, as the article points out, there were a lot of optional paths along the way, but they all were leading here.

I'm guessing (based on Ainge's own comments) that getting Isaiah a year early was probably a bit of a deviation - found gold as it were - but Danny's plan seems pretty clearly robust enough to have taken that sort of variable in.

TP for being able to call 2016 as the big summer. This was a good guess since as of the article you linked, Paul Pierce and KG were still wearing green and the season hadn't ended. How could anyone know the haul we would get for them? We could of easily gotten an immediate impact young player (thinking like the Jeff Green trade) that could of sold DA on moving the two of them without getting any future picks back, maybe the following year (think James Young pick) as opposed to a lotto pick (2016-2018).

Yeah, I 'called' the rough time horizon, based on the nature of the then-current contracts and the trending age profile of the roster.  But I had no clue that Danny would get such a ginormous haul for trading Pierce & KG.

NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: I Feel Like Ainge's Entire Tenure has Lead to This Summer.
« Reply #56 on: April 12, 2016, 03:13:03 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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I was browsing a bit in response to the various, "let's revisit our predictions from last summer!" threads and I found this article I wrote as a CB fanpost three years ago:

http://www.celticsblog.com/2013/2/22/4016162/doom-despair-or-danny-has-a-plan

This was my intro:

Quote
Just to get the punch line out of the way: Yes. Danny has a plan.

Actually - he has more than one plan. But they all lead basically to the same place - rebooting the team as a contender somewhere around 2016. So collectively, let's call them: The Plan

There is a lot of discussion of roster & contract details only relevant at the time (some look stupid in hindsight) but leading to the punch line summary:

Quote
In summary: Relax.

All roads through The Plan(tm) in the end, lead to a similar destination: Acquire the next superstar players somewhere around the 2016 season. Depending on the market, we may have to wait a year or so after that point. But that's the point at which Danny will have the tools to pull the big trigger.

The main point of the article is that Danny laid out contracts and roster construction starting years ago that basically have, indeed lead up to this point, right now.   If you paid attention to what he was doing back then, you could see it coming.  Sorta.  Obviously, as the article points out, there were a lot of optional paths along the way, but they all were leading here.

I'm guessing (based on Ainge's own comments) that getting Isaiah a year early was probably a bit of a deviation - found gold as it were - but Danny's plan seems pretty clearly robust enough to have taken that sort of variable in.
Typically GM's say they have something like a 3-5 year plan to return a team to contention.   Ainge is one of the only GM's I've ever seen pull that off.  He took over as GM in 2003, collected his assets, and officially turned it around in 2007 when we landed KG after a bottom-out year.   Right in the 3-5 year window.

It's one of the reasons I don't judge Hinkie's tenure yet.  He was just hired in May 2013.  It hasn't even been 3 years and four of their most valuable assets have yet to play on the team.   It would have been interesting to see if he pulled it off within the 3-5 year window, but the assets will remain as Colangelo takes over.  They are still on the clock.

Ainge's second attempt started in June 2013 when he officially traded away KG and Pierce.   It's coming right up on 3 years for him as well.  Next couple years will be right in the Window.   I think the difference between these situations is Philly didn't care at all about the short term.  They are in a similar position to where the pre-KG Celtics were.  It's a team that hasn't been relevant for a while - so who cares if they go through a few years of garbage.  Boston, on the other hand, wanted to maintain a level of competitiveness.  Coming from a team with 4 all-stars, they likely had more firepower to flip for future assets.  And even though they bottomed out in 2014, there is some pressure and possibly some incentive in remaining in the middle of the pack.  This could have the added benefit of making us a major player in free agency, whereas Philly's plan seems to entirely revolve around draft and trade options (like Boston in 2007).  I see both as being in great position heading into this Summer.  Both need some luck.  Both need to make wise moves.   Philly's best prospect/pick trade assets are still better than Boston's best prospect/pick trade assets, but I give Boston the edge right now simply because they are a bigger free agent threat and Crowder/Thomas are now seen as pretty substantial pieces.

Re: I Feel Like Ainge's Entire Tenure has Lead to This Summer.
« Reply #57 on: April 12, 2016, 03:17:11 PM »

Offline greece66

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Nice post LarBrd. TP.

I don't know whether the plan will bear fruit this summer (sources suggest GM see this coming FA as problematic due to the high expectations of the players) or the next, but as long as he keeps things flexible, the C's will find a way.

And it is true we are among the most recognizable franchises in all sports- if we get back on track, the bandwagon will soon be full  ;D

EDIT: TP altho I know you dont care about TPs.

Re: I Feel Like Ainge's Entire Tenure has Lead to This Summer.
« Reply #58 on: April 12, 2016, 04:01:37 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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I was browsing a bit in response to the various, "let's revisit our predictions from last summer!" threads and I found this article I wrote as a CB fanpost three years ago:

http://www.celticsblog.com/2013/2/22/4016162/doom-despair-or-danny-has-a-plan

This was my intro:

Quote
Just to get the punch line out of the way: Yes. Danny has a plan.

Actually - he has more than one plan. But they all lead basically to the same place - rebooting the team as a contender somewhere around 2016. So collectively, let's call them: The Plan

There is a lot of discussion of roster & contract details only relevant at the time (some look stupid in hindsight) but leading to the punch line summary:

Quote
In summary: Relax.

All roads through The Plan(tm) in the end, lead to a similar destination: Acquire the next superstar players somewhere around the 2016 season. Depending on the market, we may have to wait a year or so after that point. But that's the point at which Danny will have the tools to pull the big trigger.

The main point of the article is that Danny laid out contracts and roster construction starting years ago that basically have, indeed lead up to this point, right now.   If you paid attention to what he was doing back then, you could see it coming.  Sorta.  Obviously, as the article points out, there were a lot of optional paths along the way, but they all were leading here.

I'm guessing (based on Ainge's own comments) that getting Isaiah a year early was probably a bit of a deviation - found gold as it were - but Danny's plan seems pretty clearly robust enough to have taken that sort of variable in.
Typically GM's say they have something like a 3-5 year plan to return a team to contention.   Ainge is one of the only GM's I've ever seen pull that off.  He took over as GM in 2003, collected his assets, and officially turned it around in 2007 when we landed KG after a bottom-out year.   Right in the 3-5 year window.

It's one of the reasons I don't judge Hinkie's tenure yet.  He was just hired in May 2013.  It hasn't even been 3 years and four of their most valuable assets have yet to play on the team.   It would have been interesting to see if he pulled it off within the 3-5 year window, but the assets will remain as Colangelo takes over.  They are still on the clock.

Ainge's second attempt started in June 2013 when he officially traded away KG and Pierce.   It's coming right up on 3 years for him as well.  Next couple years will be right in the Window.   I think the difference between these situations is Philly didn't care at all about the short term.  They are in a similar position to where the pre-KG Celtics were.  It's a team that hasn't been relevant for a while - so who cares if they go through a few years of garbage.  Boston, on the other hand, wanted to maintain a level of competitiveness.  Coming from a team with 4 all-stars, they likely had more firepower to flip for future assets.  And even though they bottomed out in 2014, there is some pressure and possibly some incentive in remaining in the middle of the pack.  This could have the added benefit of making us a major player in free agency, whereas Philly's plan seems to entirely revolve around draft and trade options (like Boston in 2007).  I see both as being in great position heading into this Summer.  Both need some luck.  Both need to make wise moves.   Philly's best prospect/pick trade assets are still better than Boston's best prospect/pick trade assets, but I give Boston the edge right now simply because they are a bigger free agent threat and Crowder/Thomas are now seen as pretty substantial pieces.

I disagree with the part in bold.  I think that Ainge started the rebuild earlier than that trade with the drafting of the very-young-at-the-time-of-the-draft Bradley and Sullinger and by carefully setting up all his contracts (Bass, Rondo, Green, etc.) to expire by this summer.  Yes, he traded most of them away, but he was careful not to bring in any longer term big contracts in their place.  Any that he had kept (Bass, for example) would not tie him down because they would just expire.  If he had kept Green, it would be expiring now.   Even when he made the Pierce-KG trade, he was careful in that Wallace' incoming contract fit the same horizon (later flipped for Lee's which also fit this horizon).
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: I Feel Like Ainge's Entire Tenure has Lead to This Summer.
« Reply #59 on: April 12, 2016, 05:08:18 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I would like to think his tenure involved around a championship in 08, too.   He is trying to get us back there.