Author Topic: I Feel Like Ainge's Entire Tenure has Lead to This Summer.  (Read 14615 times)

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Re: I Feel Like Ainge's Entire Tenure has Lead to This Summer.
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2016, 10:18:13 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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It's great that one of CB's most renowned pessimists is now one of the biggest optimists regarding the Celtics.

Now what are we all going to argue about.
He's not a pessimist, he's a contrarian.

Can't be smarter than the room when you agree with most people. And there is plenty to argue about, I mean we're getting another top 6 or 7 pick in the worst case scenario.
Some say this, but for the most part people love me, because I tell it like it is.  I love optimists.  Some of my best friends are optimists.  Optimists love me.  You can say I'm a pessimist/contrarian... I guess some think of me as an independent.  Because I live outside of Boston, I'm seen as an outsider.   I'm not seen as a traditional forum poster who can be bought with tommypoints.  At the end of the day, we're all just hoping to see Ainge make the Celtics great again. 

Re: I Feel Like Ainge's Entire Tenure has Lead to This Summer.
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2016, 11:26:16 AM »

Offline mef730

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It's great that one of CB's most renowned pessimists is now one of the biggest optimists regarding the Celtics.

Now what are we all going to argue about.
He's not a pessimist, he's a contrarian.

Can't be smarter than the room when you agree with most people. And there is plenty to argue about, I mean we're getting another top 6 or 7 pick in the worst case scenario.
Some say this, but for the most part people love me, because I tell it like it is.  I love optimists.  Some of my best friends are optimists.  Optimists love me.  You can say I'm a pessimist/contrarian... I guess some think of me as an independent.  Because I live outside of Boston, I'm seen as an outsider.   I'm not seen as a traditional forum poster who can be bought with tommypoints.  At the end of the day, we're all just hoping to see Ainge make the Celtics great again.

Ah yes, the Donald Trump of CB. ;)

Mike

Re: I Feel Like Ainge's Entire Tenure has Lead to This Summer.
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2016, 11:34:08 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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It's great that one of CB's most renowned pessimists is now one of the biggest optimists regarding the Celtics.

Now what are we all going to argue about.
He's not a pessimist, he's a contrarian.

Can't be smarter than the room when you agree with most people. And there is plenty to argue about, I mean we're getting another top 6 or 7 pick in the worst case scenario.
Some say this, but for the most part people love me, because I tell it like it is.  I love optimists.  Some of my best friends are optimists.  Optimists love me.  You can say I'm a pessimist/contrarian... I guess some think of me as an independent.  Because I live outside of Boston, I'm seen as an outsider.   I'm not seen as a traditional forum poster who can be bought with tommypoints.  At the end of the day, we're all just hoping to see Ainge make the Celtics great again.
Don't flatter yourself, LB -- for the most part, people don't even know you live outside of Boston. :P
« Last Edit: April 11, 2016, 01:26:29 PM by kozlodoev »
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: I Feel Like Ainge's Entire Tenure has Lead to This Summer.
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2016, 11:45:38 AM »

Offline csfansince60s

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It's great that one of CB's most renowned pessimists is now one of the biggest optimists regarding the Celtics.

Now what are we all going to argue about.
He's not a pessimist, he's a contrarian.

Can't be smarter than the room when you agree with most people. And there is plenty to argue about, I mean we're getting another top 6 or 7 pick in the worst case scenario.
Some say this, but for the most part people love me, because I tell it like it is.  I love optimists.  Some of my best friends are optimists.  Optimists love me.  You can say I'm a pessimist/contrarian... I guess some think of me as an independent.  Because I live outside of Boston, I'm seen as an outsider.   I'm not seen as a traditional forum poster who can be bought with tommypoints.  At the end of the day, we're all just hoping to see Ainge make the Celtics great again.

Ah yes, the Donald Trump of CB. ;)

Mike

TP, Mike, I had the exact same Trump-like feel when I read this.

And in fairness, though, TP to the OP, LBird33 for baring your C's soul.

Re: I Feel Like Ainge's Entire Tenure has Lead to This Summer.
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2016, 12:00:41 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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While it's a nice post I am not expecting much from this off season. Slow building seems the way it's going. I expect a disappointing FA. A 3-6 pick.

Re: I Feel Like Ainge's Entire Tenure has Lead to This Summer.
« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2016, 12:02:48 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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It's great that one of CB's most renowned pessimists is now one of the biggest optimists regarding the Celtics.

Now what are we all going to argue about.
He's not a pessimist, he's a contrarian.

Can't be smarter than the room when you agree with most people. And there is plenty to argue about, I mean we're getting another top 6 or 7 pick in the worst case scenario.
Some say this, but for the most part people love me, because I tell it like it is.  I love optimists.  Some of my best friends are optimists.  Optimists love me.  You can say I'm a pessimist/contrarian... I guess some think of me as an independent.  Because I live outside of Boston, I'm seen as an outsider.   I'm not seen as a traditional forum poster who can be bought with tommypoints.  At the end of the day, we're all just hoping to see Ainge make the Celtics great again.
Don't flatter yourself, LB -- for the most part, people don't even kow you live outside of Boston. :P

For the most part, people don't care one way or another, either.


2010 CB Historical Draft - Best Overall Team

Re: I Feel Like Ainge's Entire Tenure has Lead to This Summer.
« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2016, 12:28:38 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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It's great that one of CB's most renowned pessimists is now one of the biggest optimists regarding the Celtics.

Now what are we all going to argue about.
He's not a pessimist, he's a contrarian.

Can't be smarter than the room when you agree with most people. And there is plenty to argue about, I mean we're getting another top 6 or 7 pick in the worst case scenario.
Some say this, but for the most part people love me, because I tell it like it is.  I love optimists.  Some of my best friends are optimists.  Optimists love me.  You can say I'm a pessimist/contrarian... I guess some think of me as an independent.  Because I live outside of Boston, I'm seen as an outsider.   I'm not seen as a traditional forum poster who can be bought with tommypoints.  At the end of the day, we're all just hoping to see Ainge make the Celtics great again.

Ah yes, the Donald Trump of CB. ;)

Mike

TP, Mike, I had the exact same Trump-like feel when I read this.

And in fairness, though, TP to the OP, LBird33 for baring your C's soul.
I love optimists. I just think Celticsblog should have some kind of firewall to keep out the optimists.

Re: I Feel Like Ainge's Entire Tenure has Lead to This Summer.
« Reply #22 on: April 11, 2016, 12:29:54 PM »

Offline TheFlex

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It's great that one of CB's most renowned pessimists is now one of the biggest optimists regarding the Celtics.

Now what are we all going to argue about.
He's not a pessimist, he's a contrarian.

Can't be smarter than the room when you agree with most people. And there is plenty to argue about, I mean we're getting another top 6 or 7 pick in the worst case scenario.
Some say this, but for the most part people love me, because I tell it like it is.  I love optimists.  Some of my best friends are optimists.  Optimists love me.  You can say I'm a pessimist/contrarian... I guess some think of me as an independent.  Because I live outside of Boston, I'm seen as an outsider.   I'm not seen as a traditional forum poster who can be bought with tommypoints.  At the end of the day, we're all just hoping to see Ainge make the Celtics great again.

Ah yes, the Donald Trump of CB. ;)

Mike

TP, Mike, I had the exact same Trump-like feel when I read this.

And in fairness, though, TP to the OP, LBird33 for baring your C's soul.
I love optimists. I just think we should build a wall to keep out the optimists.

There has to be a punishment for optimism.


Draft: 8 first rounders in next 5 years.

Cap space: $24 mil.

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Re: I Feel Like Ainge's Entire Tenure has Lead to This Summer.
« Reply #23 on: April 11, 2016, 12:44:40 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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TP for a great post.

I think it might be another year or two before the real fireworks happen, but it's surely true that the franchise has never been better positioned for a big move. Our assets right now trump what we possessed in 2007, in my opinion.


Re: I Feel Like Ainge's Entire Tenure has Lead to This Summer.
« Reply #24 on: April 11, 2016, 12:47:21 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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It's great that one of CB's most renowned pessimists is now one of the biggest optimists regarding the Celtics.

Now what are we all going to argue about.
He's not a pessimist, he's a contrarian.

Can't be smarter than the room when you agree with most people. And there is plenty to argue about, I mean we're getting another top 6 or 7 pick in the worst case scenario.
Some say this, but for the most part people love me, because I tell it like it is.  I love optimists.  Some of my best friends are optimists.  Optimists love me.  You can say I'm a pessimist/contrarian... I guess some think of me as an independent.  Because I live outside of Boston, I'm seen as an outsider.   I'm not seen as a traditional forum poster who can be bought with tommypoints.  At the end of the day, we're all just hoping to see Ainge make the Celtics great again.

Ah yes, the Donald Trump of CB. ;)

Mike

TP, Mike, I had the exact same Trump-like feel when I read this.

And in fairness, though, TP to the OP, LBird33 for baring your C's soul.
I love optimists. I just think Celticsblog should have some kind of firewall to keep out the optimists.

Can we make Silver Screen + Roll pay for it?

Re: I Feel Like Ainge's Entire Tenure has Lead to This Summer.
« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2016, 12:57:11 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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It's great that one of CB's most renowned pessimists is now one of the biggest optimists regarding the Celtics.

Now what are we all going to argue about.
He's not a pessimist, he's a contrarian.

Can't be smarter than the room when you agree with most people. And there is plenty to argue about, I mean we're getting another top 6 or 7 pick in the worst case scenario.
Some say this, but for the most part people love me, because I tell it like it is.  I love optimists.  Some of my best friends are optimists.  Optimists love me.  You can say I'm a pessimist/contrarian... I guess some think of me as an independent.  Because I live outside of Boston, I'm seen as an outsider.   I'm not seen as a traditional forum poster who can be bought with tommypoints.  At the end of the day, we're all just hoping to see Ainge make the Celtics great again.

Ah yes, the Donald Trump of CB. ;)

Mike

TP, Mike, I had the exact same Trump-like feel when I read this.

And in fairness, though, TP to the OP, LBird33 for baring your C's soul.
I love optimists. I just think Celticsblog should have some kind of firewall to keep out the optimists.

Can we make Silver Screen + Roll pay for it?

#MakeCelticsblogGreatAgain

(Celticsblog is just fine, just made a little joke here, if anyone is tone-deaf)

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: I Feel Like Ainge's Entire Tenure has Lead to This Summer.
« Reply #26 on: April 11, 2016, 01:09:47 PM »

Offline Ed Hollison

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Good summary of why the Celtics may be a more attractive free agent destination than what popular opinion estimates. But the thing I disagree with is that everything has been building up to this particular offseason. That's just not the way Ainge does things.

Everything Ainge does is for flexibility and maintaining options. He's stated this countless times in his interviews, and his decision making supports it. Prior to 2007 he built up assets with the idea that, at some point, a superstar player might become available in a trade. That scenario finally did, and at that point Ainge pounced.

Last offseason the Celtics had plenty of cap space, but no big-time FAs that the team courted gave them a meeting. So what does Ainge do? He runs it back via FA deals for Johnson and Jerebko that include non-guaranteed second years, in order for Ainge to maintain the flexibility to sign a FA, trade, or whatever a year later. In the meantime, the team competes hard, raising the profile and value of its young players, its head coach, and the franchise in general.

Of course option #1 this offseason is Durant + whichever other max or near-max player. But Ainge understands that you don't gamble on low-probability scenarios. If "that guy" isn't available this year, you continue to build your team through the draft and tactically with trades, all the while keeping your options open.

It's a brilliant strategy. Ainge isn't so shortsighted to focus on one particular year, one particular player, or one particular path to winning. He's playing chess. Just a great GM, perhaps second only to the god-like Sam Hinkie.
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Re: I Feel Like Ainge's Entire Tenure has Lead to This Summer.
« Reply #27 on: April 11, 2016, 01:19:12 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Don't we have this conversation on the eve of every summer?


Ainge will dramatically transform the roster and launch us into contention . . . or the opportunities won't be there, and he won't.

In which case it'll be another tinker around the margins and wait kind for the deadline kind of off-season.



I think it's entirely possible Ainge circled this summer on his calendar with Durant as his Plan A, with some contingency moves involving trading the BRK pick for a notable established player.

Then Plan B and C involve targeting less obvious players via trade, or simply doubling down on building through the draft if nothing else works out.


It's going to be fun to see what happens.  A great deal depends on what happens in the lottery.  The fate of the Thunder in the playoffs might play a significant role as well.
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Re: I Feel Like Ainge's Entire Tenure has Lead to This Summer.
« Reply #28 on: April 11, 2016, 01:24:56 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Don't we have this conversation on the eve of every summer?

I don't think so.  I've been here every summer of Celticsblog and we've never had this perfect storm.  Great management, coaching, solid roster, great assets, Max cap space for two contracts for the first time in the history of the franchise, and a top 5 player in his prime hitting the market.  It's a unique summer.

Re: I Feel Like Ainge's Entire Tenure has Lead to This Summer.
« Reply #29 on: April 11, 2016, 01:25:30 PM »

Offline tankcity!

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To understand the premise, I have to first go on a bit of a tangent. 

My family is from the Boston.  My dad has always been a diehard Celtic fan.  I grew up loving the team.  I was born in 1982.  As a small child, I had Larry Bird on my personal Mount Rushmore with Michael Jackson, Superman, and Michael J Fox.  Unfortunately, I was far too young to ever really appreciate the original Celtic Big 3 from a basketball standpoint.  I was only 4 years old when they won their last championship in 1986.  We moved to Florida when I was 7 and my most lucid memory of watching Bird play was the May 5, 1991 Pacer playoff game where Bird hit his head on the floor, returned triumphantly, and won the game:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zKZQ8VWT9Y .  I watched that game with my dad from an Irish Pub in Florida.  I was just a kid.  Bird was superhuman to me.  I hated Chuck Person with a passion.  I didn't grasp that this was the twilight of Bird's career and one of his last significant games.   

I just was a naive 8 year old kid when I watched that game.  Just six months later, Magic Johnson announced his retirement from the league.  Shamefully, my first reaction to the announcement as a dumb little kid was, "I guess this means Larry will have an easier time winning championships!".  Yeah, I know - Embarrassing.   About a year later, I cried as I watched Larry Bird's retirement ceremony.  I still have a t-shirt honoring Bird's retirement that my dad bought me from a Boston-themed sports bar in Florida.  As a little kid it was always about 10 sizes too big for me.  For years, I stapled it to my bedroom walls alongside dozens of Celtic posters.   I found it the other day in a box of memorabilia sitting in my closet.   I tried it on and for the first time ever, it actually fit:  http://i.imgur.com/9rGyysL.jpg

We spent a few years in Florida and eventually moved to Washington State.  Celtic fandom seemed to wither away around me.  Outside of my dad and I, there didn't seem to be anyone in the entire state (that we knew of at least) who still supported the Boston Celtics.  In High School, my friends would tease me about my undying support for such a garbage team.  Every year when the Celtics came to town, we'd make sure to buy tickets to the Seattle Supersonics games.  A handful of Boston transplants would show up and go through the motions, but it was pretty clear the glorious days of Celtic Pride were long gone.

Yes, the 97 Duncan lotto/Rick Pitino stirred up some excitement, but for the most part it really seemed like the team was no longer relevant.  The timing of it sucked.  The team hit an extended slump right as we entered the modern era of the league. 

The reason I bring all of this up is simple.  Before Ainge even took over in 2003, I long believed that the Celtics could return to being a cornerstone franchise in the league and premiere free agent destination.  The problem was, we had yet to see a quality Celtic team in the modern era.  In Bird's day, players would be lucky to get 1 million dollar contracts.  National endorsement deals were rare.  Pre-internet, it was difficult to even follow a bottom-tier team like the Celtics outside of Boston.  In the new era you had players making 30 million per year for a global sport, and high school athletes landing 100 million dollar endorsement deals before even playing a professional game.   The Celtics were seemingly bystanders in the 90s and early 00s.  Even when they made a flukey run in the Jim O'Brien Leastern Conference Walker/Pierce year, they were essentially a footnote to an era dominated by the Spurs and Lakers.   

Doubters consistently pointed out Boston's inability to sign top-tier free agents.  How could this team possibly be a destination for the league's elite talent?  But the thing was, Boston literally never had cap space at any point during this run.  It was woefully mismanaged team.  For example, we had a stretch when part of our cap space was being eaten up by Alcoholic Vin Baker while he played for different teams.  My thought was, the Red Sox and Patriots both seemed to have no trouble luring top talent to the region.  Why couldn't the Celtics do the same?  The Celtics once ruled the sports world in Boston.  Couldn't they get there again?   I strongly believed that if the team simply formed a true contender, all the latent fans would creep out of the parquet and it would suddenly be one of the league's prestige franchises again.   We just needed to somehow form a contender.  I figured if we could just get towards the top of the Mountain we'd see the entire perception of the team change.  Why couldn't we be like the Red Sox and Patriots?  Why couldn't the Boston Celtics be relevant again? 

And so, Ainge set out to do just that.  Just make the team relevant at any cost and get our footprint in the modern NBA landscape.  Once we landed KG, I felt like everything changed.  And I'm not just talking about the team's obvious success winning the 2008 Championship.  All things considered, the KG era only produced about 3.5 years of genuine contending.  It's been 8 years since we won that title.  We were a bottom 6 team as recently as 2014 - but the change remains.  There's a reason why you see so many publications report trade rumors and news associated with the Celtics.  It's not just because of Ainge's aggressiveness, it's because the fanbase is now astronomical in size (top 4 nationally) and those publications know that reporting news on the Celtics will inevitably result in clicks from the massive and rabid fanbase. 

The Boston Celtics are very much relevant again on a national scale.  KG's presence and the 2008 Championship put the Celtics on the modern NBA map.  And this is why I feel like Danny's entire tenure has built towards this Summer.  KG and Ray were both in the early 30s by the time we landed them (limiting our window), but bringing them in was essential in making this team matter again.  It's no longer looked at as a long-dead franchise once lead by a goofy white guy in the pre-Jordan days.  It's not the joke bottomfeeder it had been in the 90s/00s.   Now when young players and prospective free agents think about the Celtics, they think of the KG-era world-beaters and the tough and gritty young team Ainge has assembled right now. 

Obviously, it's not a guarantee that Boston will land significant free agents.  But for the first time ever the team will have significant cap space (aside from last offseason where options were slim and the team opted to maintain trade and 2016 free agency flexibility).  We'll have space to sign potentially two max deals.  And I genuinely believe we'll have as good a shot as any team in the league to bring in top-tier free agent talent.  Recently, it's become a bit more popular to consider the pipe dream Kevin Durant possibility.  I've been on this bandwagon for a while, though.   I have no idea what Durant will do this Summer, but I adamantly believe that if he tests free agency, he HAS to take a meeting with the Celtics.  Even if he's not privvy to the idea, any respectable Agent will force him to take the meeting.  Aside from the overblown "weather" excuse, there's really no reason not to consider Boston.

- A prestige franchise with a long history of success.   One of the league's premiere teams. 

- Boston is one of the greatest sports cities in the United States.  The fans are rabid, informed, and loyal.  They treat their sports heroes like gods.  There aren't a lot of sports cultures like that in this Country.

- In terms of size, it's a top 4 fanbase nationally.  Being the face of the Boston Celtics matters.  It's an iconic sports brand.  I have to assume it will positively impact endorsement opportunities.

- Celtics ownership group is considered one of the best in the league.  They have consistently made it clear they are willing to spend when necessary.  There's no signs of drama and it appears they let their management and coaches do their jobs without meddling.

- Elite-level management.  Danny Ainge is arguably the best GM in the entire league.  He has a healthy respect for both the old school approach and new school analytics.  Consistently wins trades and has a solid track record of landing quality talent later in the draft.  If there's a way to improve the team, Ainge will find it.

- Widely considered one of the best young coaches in the league.  You rarely hear anything negative about Brad Stevens as a coach.  He should be a draw for any prospective free agent.

- A solid/gritty defense-first playoff team loaded with quality NBA-level talent from top to bottom.  Even our D-League roster has players who may be viable NBA players.   Any free agent that joins us will be joining a young top-tier Eastern Conference squad that appears to have an outstanding culture they are continuing to build on. 

- Already one all-star on the roster in Isaiah Thomas.   IT has been pretty sensational this year.  If a free agent has a prerequisite of needing star talent to join with, IT qualifies. 

- Cap space to sign 2 max contracts this Summer, meaning a guy like Durant could bring a buddy.  And with the cap expected to jump another 20 million the year after, the team could theoretically add a 3rd max contract in Summer of 2017.  Thanks to savvy cap management by Ainge, we have guys like Thomas, Avery Bradley and Jae Crowder locked up to bargain deals that will not bloat our salary cap over the next couple years.   3 Max deals could actually happen.

- Massive assortment of young prospects and draft picks that can be utilized to shape the roster.  The Brooklyn pick is a massive chip if trading it is necessary.  We have several other future firsts and players like Marcus SMart that should hold value around the league.   

It can't be understated how epic this Summer could potentially be for the Celtics.  Everything Ainge has done has lead up to this.  It's a perfect storm of quality talent, cap space, assets and draft picks.  Sure, this could end up being a disappointment, but the potential is genuinely there.  Perhaps Durant stays in Oklahoma.  Maybe he decides to sign with Golden State (which would be a mistake in my opinion... thanks to the Sonics situation there is no love for the THunder outside of OKC - Durant could leave for basically any team and be embraced for it... the only move that would hurt his reputation would be shamelessly hopping on the Warriors bandwagon to be Steph Curry's sidekick).   Regardless, I fully expect every free agent (that Ainge is interested in) to take our calls.   I'm not sure there is any team in the league better positioned top-to-bottom than the Boston Celtics.  Once you get past the "weather" and "we don't have a superstar already" excuses, this is basically an ideal situation for any top-level player.

LOL, it's time to hang it up and let the millennials take over this board. I just kid...Great post, TP.