Dragan Bender no longer a Draft and Stash candidate

[Tr1boy]

His stats, are pretty bad folks.   His shooting is horrible.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/euro/players/dragan-bender-1.html

I hope to heck DA does fall for this trap of a player, who is all honesty can't dominate over in Europe and Israel.   He better be able to run, because he will get ate alive in the NBA.

wahaahhaha

[Boris Badenov]

His stats, are pretty bad folks.   His shooting is horrible.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/euro/players/dragan-bender-1.html

I hope to heck DA does fall for this trap of a player, who is all honesty can't dominate over in Europe and Israel.   He better be able to run, because he will get ate alive in the NBA.

Those don't include his Israeli league stats, which are a much larger sample and where he shot 50/45/80. You can complain about the quality of the league but he shot well there, and the consensus from experts who've watched him seems to be that he has a good stroke.

I'm not well-informed enough to have an opinion about him, but based on what the larger sample and the experts say, faulting him for his shooting seems to be barking up the wrong tree. the other standard Euro criticisms (strength, defense, rebounding) seem more apt.

[PAOBoston]

Bender has a significantly better bio at this stage than Giannis had. Giannis was 2nd division Greek League and was a huge gamble. Had Giannis been playing for Panathinaikos or Olympiacos and gotten any sort of Euroleague experience he might have vaulted into the early to mid lottery as well.

Bender is also insanely young. He's a project for sure. But he does have certain traits that are enticing for a big man like him. But he's going to take at least 4-5 years to have a chance to become any type of impact player.

[Tr1boy]

Bender has a significantly better bio at this stage than Giannis had. Giannis was 2nd division Greek League and was a huge gamble. Had Giannis been playing for Panathinaikos or Olympiacos and gotten any sort of Euroleague experience he might have vaulted into the early to mid lottery as well.

Bender is also insanely young. He's a project for sure. But he does have certain traits that are enticing for a big man like him. But he's going to take at least 4-5 years to have a chance to become any type of impact player.

Giannis went 15.  I would pick bender at 15 , np

[Tr1boy]

And the difference between bender and porzingis is that porzingis has some "nasty" in this game.  Can play over the rim. Quicker jump shot release

[alldaboston]

And the difference between bender and porzingis is that porzingis has some "nasty" in this game.  Can play over the rim. Quicker jump shot release

Agree with this post and your post before this. I just don't see anything with Bender that makes me believe he will be an even semi-decent NBA player. Like, I know a lot of people were scared of porzingis but looking back on his film from his European days he had some moves and some very obvious talent, skill, etc. But I don't see this with bender. If Porzingis wasn't in the NBA and never declared for the draft, etc, I firmly believe bender wouldn't be ranked nearly as high.

[TheSundanceKid]

And the difference between bender and porzingis is that porzingis has some "nasty" in this game.  Can play over the rim. Quicker jump shot release

Agree with this post and your post before this. I just don't see anything with Bender that makes me believe he will be an even semi-decent NBA player. Like, I know a lot of people were scared of porzingis but looking back on his film from his European days he had some moves and some very obvious talent, skill, etc. But I don't see this with bender. If Porzingis wasn't in the NBA and never declared for the draft, etc, I firmly believe bender wouldn't be ranked nearly as high.

Honestly I think the Porzingis effect is overrated. Bender was considered a future NBA prospect before Porzingis was even on the radar. Porzingis developed well in the 2 years before he got drafted, before that noone was aware of him. Bender has been considered a good prospect since before he started playing for a professional team. He was like the Euro equivalent of looking at Shaqs son right now. As I've stated before, if you ignore their height you'll find their games to be as comparable as Towns and Giannis. I don't see a Hezonja effect on wuro wings for example, he was drafted at 5.

He is a draft for potential pick. A 7ft guy who can move on the perimeter, get out and run and has an improving 3 point shot. He has the right attributes to fit into our system and grow naturally. The main concern is the maturation of his  body which he has gone on record as saying is not his focus this year, rather he focus on his fundamentals. So it would be unfair to say he can't put on the muscle at this stage.

I do think that he will need to come over and protect his spot in workouts though. We've established who Hield is coming into the draft. We have a couple of others in Murray and Brown who have untapped potential in their games as well. Bender will need to show NBA folk that he has the most upside of the group. I think people will be surprised that he will also be able to contribute from day one as well. One thing the NCAA always lacks is height. Go to Europe and the pool of players is taller. So you're less likely to see Bender struggle with that transition.

[Celtics4ever]

Every year we get some mystery guys some they are Porzingas and sometimes they are Darko.

http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/106856/nba-draft-the-numbers-on-international-lottery-picks

The supposedly great Israelis stats.   I concede his shooting is better but he has a lot of other problem areas.

http://basket.co.il/PlayerPage.asp?PlayerNumber=03&TeamId=950&cYear=2016&cView=2&lang=en

Still not the second coming folks.  Almost not blocks and crappy rebounding.

[Eddie20]

Every year we get some mystery guys some they are Porzingas and sometimes they are Darko.

http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/106856/nba-draft-the-numbers-on-international-lottery-picks

The supposedly great Israelis stats.   I concede his shooting is better but he has a lot of other problem areas.

http://basket.co.il/PlayerPage.asp?PlayerNumber=03&TeamId=950&cYear=2016&cView=2&lang=en

Still not the second coming folks.  Almost not blocks and crappy rebounding.

Due to the amount of international scouting nowadays you have far more hits than you have misses. The days of busts, like Tskitishvili and Darko, are fewer than ever. Could they still happen? Of course. However, when a player is projected to be a lottery pick it's usually for good reason.


International Lottery selections since 2010

2010
0

2011
Kanter
Valanciunus
Biyombo
Vesely

2012
0

2013
Greek Freek

2014
Exum
Saric

2015
Porzingis
Hezonja
Mudiay


You can easily say that the last international lottery pick that was a flat out bust was Vesely in 2011. It's not as though taking a domestic player provides a better percentage of success. It just might be that casual fans, those that aren't previed to amount of information of foreign players, feel much more at ease basing their opinion on something they know and have actually seen. Bender is projected to go top 3 by most every publication. This would be the highest international player selected in a very long time. I really doubt it's because they have seen a few highlight videos and are basing their mocks on that. More than likely, it's a combination of what they see themselves and hear from team scouts, executives, etc. 

[Roy H.]

Every year we get some mystery guys some they are Porzingas and sometimes they are Darko.

http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/106856/nba-draft-the-numbers-on-international-lottery-picks

The supposedly great Israelis stats.   I concede his shooting is better but he has a lot of other problem areas.

http://basket.co.il/PlayerPage.asp?PlayerNumber=03&TeamId=950&cYear=2016&cView=2&lang=en

Still not the second coming folks.  Almost not blocks and crappy rebounding.

Due to the amount of international scouting nowadays you have far more hits than you have misses. The days of busts, like Tskitishvili and Darko, are fewer than ever. Could they still happen? Of course. However, when a player is projected to be a lottery pick it's usually for good reason.


International Lottery selections since 2010

2010
0

2011
Kanter
Valanciunus
Biyombo
Vesely

2012
0

2013
Greek Freek

2014
Exum
Saric

2015
Porzingis
Hezonja
Mudiay


You can easily say that the last international lottery pick that was a flat out bust was Vesely in 2011. It's not as though taking a domestic player provides a better percentage of success. It just might be that casual fans, those that aren't previed to amount of information of foreign players, feel much more at ease basing their opinion on something they know and have actually seen. Bender is projected to go top 3 by most every publication. This would be the highest international player selected in a very long time. I really doubt it's because they have seen a few highlight videos and are basing their mocks on that. More than likely, it's a combination of what they see themselves and hear from team scouts, executives, etc.

Outside of Giannis (who wasn't taken in the lottery IIRC), and Porzingis, have any of those guys lived up to expectations yet? Maybe JV (very debatable), but otherwise there's been a lot of overvaluing going on based on track record to date.

[Eddie20]

Every year we get some mystery guys some they are Porzingas and sometimes they are Darko.

http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/106856/nba-draft-the-numbers-on-international-lottery-picks

The supposedly great Israelis stats.   I concede his shooting is better but he has a lot of other problem areas.

http://basket.co.il/PlayerPage.asp?PlayerNumber=03&TeamId=950&cYear=2016&cView=2&lang=en

Still not the second coming folks.  Almost not blocks and crappy rebounding.

Due to the amount of international scouting nowadays you have far more hits than you have misses. The days of busts, like Tskitishvili and Darko, are fewer than ever. Could they still happen? Of course. However, when a player is projected to be a lottery pick it's usually for good reason.


International Lottery selections since 2010

2010
0

2011
Kanter
Valanciunus
Biyombo
Vesely

2012
0

2013
Greek Freek

2014
Exum
Saric

2015
Porzingis
Hezonja
Mudiay


You can easily say that the last international lottery pick that was a flat out bust was Vesely in 2011. It's not as though taking a domestic player provides a better percentage of success. It just might be that casual fans, those that aren't previed to amount of information of foreign players, feel much more at ease basing their opinion on something they know and have actually seen. Bender is projected to go top 3 by most every publication. This would be the highest international player selected in a very long time. I really doubt it's because they have seen a few highlight videos and are basing their mocks on that. More than likely, it's a combination of what they see themselves and hear from team scouts, executives, etc.

Outside of Giannis (who wasn't taken in the lottery IIRC), and Porzingis, have any of those guys lived up to expectations yet? Maybe JV (very debatable), but otherwise there's been a lot of overvaluing going on based on track record to date.

Giannis was #15, so technically 1 spot outside. I don't see how these guys, as a collective whole, haven't lived up to expectations, but the domestic kids have. Based on the number of busts on the domestic side, it's fair to say that there is no greater risk in drafting a foreign player.

The Bender case is interesting. Some think he's getting pegged this high simply on his size, but if that's the case then why didn't players like Gobert, Nurkic, Nogeira, etc. get drafted much higher simply for their size? The likelihood is that people are seeing something in Bender that the majority of us simply don't have accessibility to. Fair?

[TheSundanceKid]

Every year we get some mystery guys some they are Porzingas and sometimes they are Darko.

http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/106856/nba-draft-the-numbers-on-international-lottery-picks

The supposedly great Israelis stats.   I concede his shooting is better but he has a lot of other problem areas.

http://basket.co.il/PlayerPage.asp?PlayerNumber=03&TeamId=950&cYear=2016&cView=2&lang=en

Still not the second coming folks.  Almost not blocks and crappy rebounding.

Due to the amount of international scouting nowadays you have far more hits than you have misses. The days of busts, like Tskitishvili and Darko, are fewer than ever. Could they still happen? Of course. However, when a player is projected to be a lottery pick it's usually for good reason.


International Lottery selections since 2010

2010
0

2011
Kanter
Valanciunus
Biyombo
Vesely

2012
0

2013
Greek Freek

2014
Exum
Saric

2015
Porzingis
Hezonja
Mudiay


You can easily say that the last international lottery pick that was a flat out bust was Vesely in 2011. It's not as though taking a domestic player provides a better percentage of success. It just might be that casual fans, those that aren't previed to amount of information of foreign players, feel much more at ease basing their opinion on something they know and have actually seen. Bender is projected to go top 3 by most every publication. This would be the highest international player selected in a very long time. I really doubt it's because they have seen a few highlight videos and are basing their mocks on that. More than likely, it's a combination of what they see themselves and hear from team scouts, executives, etc.

Outside of Giannis (who wasn't taken in the lottery IIRC), and Porzingis, have any of those guys lived up to expectations yet? Maybe JV (very debatable), but otherwise there's been a lot of overvaluing going on based on track record to date.

I'd say Exum has. It's easy to forget because of his injury but he was taking a big step forward before that. Kanter and Biyombo have struggled but seem to have found a niche, that was a weird draft though. Most of those that ended up best came from the middle of the round. Too early to say with Hezonja and Mudiay.

[Tr1boy]

Every year we get some mystery guys some they are Porzingas and sometimes they are Darko.

http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/106856/nba-draft-the-numbers-on-international-lottery-picks

The supposedly great Israelis stats.   I concede his shooting is better but he has a lot of other problem areas.

http://basket.co.il/PlayerPage.asp?PlayerNumber=03&TeamId=950&cYear=2016&cView=2&lang=en

Still not the second coming folks.  Almost not blocks and crappy rebounding.

Due to the amount of international scouting nowadays you have far more hits than you have misses. The days of busts, like Tskitishvili and Darko, are fewer than ever. Could they still happen? Of course. However, when a player is projected to be a lottery pick it's usually for good reason.


International Lottery selections since 2010

2010
0

2011
Kanter
Valanciunus
Biyombo
Vesely

2012
0

2013
Greek Freek

2014
Exum
Saric

2015
Porzingis
Hezonja
Mudiay


You can easily say that the last international lottery pick that was a flat out bust was Vesely in 2011. It's not as though taking a domestic player provides a better percentage of success. It just might be that casual fans, those that aren't previed to amount of information of foreign players, feel much more at ease basing their opinion on something they know and have actually seen. Bender is projected to go top 3 by most every publication. This would be the highest international player selected in a very long time. I really doubt it's because they have seen a few highlight videos and are basing their mocks on that. More than likely, it's a combination of what they see themselves and hear from team scouts, executives, etc.

Outside of Giannis (who wasn't taken in the lottery IIRC), and Porzingis, have any of those guys lived up to expectations yet? Maybe JV (very debatable), but otherwise there's been a lot of overvaluing going on based on track record to date.

Giannis was #15, so technically 1 spot outside. I don't see how these guys, as a collective whole, haven't lived up to expectations, but the domestic kids have. Based on the number of busts on the domestic side, it's fair to say that there is no greater risk in drafting a foreign player.

The Bender case is interesting. Some think he's getting pegged this high simply on his size, but if that's the case then why didn't players like Gobert, Nurkic, Nogeira, etc. get drafted much higher simply for their size? The likelihood is that people are seeing something in Bender that the majority of us simply don't have accessibility to. Fair?

That's simply it, he hasn't played enough for anyone to come up with a definite conclusion.  He hasn't even played regular mins. So his coach doesn't think he is ready. 

And Benders reason for declaring for the draft? 

I'm not stating he needs stay but there is a "rush" feeling. He will do well in combine measurements. Maybe even individual workouts. But nobody will still know how he does in 5 on 5 play against good players. Better players than he is used to playing with and against.

We don't know what his stamina level is like.  If in stressful situations (5 min left) how he reacts.   If teams takeaway his strong pts or he is struggling what can he do to overcome on the fly

Right now the bigger question for me anyways is why he didn't get consistent playing time for a team that really could of used his so called talents

[Eddie20]

Every year we get some mystery guys some they are Porzingas and sometimes they are Darko.

http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/106856/nba-draft-the-numbers-on-international-lottery-picks

The supposedly great Israelis stats.   I concede his shooting is better but he has a lot of other problem areas.

http://basket.co.il/PlayerPage.asp?PlayerNumber=03&TeamId=950&cYear=2016&cView=2&lang=en

Still not the second coming folks.  Almost not blocks and crappy rebounding.

Due to the amount of international scouting nowadays you have far more hits than you have misses. The days of busts, like Tskitishvili and Darko, are fewer than ever. Could they still happen? Of course. However, when a player is projected to be a lottery pick it's usually for good reason.


International Lottery selections since 2010

2010
0

2011
Kanter
Valanciunus
Biyombo
Vesely

2012
0

2013
Greek Freek

2014
Exum
Saric

2015
Porzingis
Hezonja
Mudiay


You can easily say that the last international lottery pick that was a flat out bust was Vesely in 2011. It's not as though taking a domestic player provides a better percentage of success. It just might be that casual fans, those that aren't previed to amount of information of foreign players, feel much more at ease basing their opinion on something they know and have actually seen. Bender is projected to go top 3 by most every publication. This would be the highest international player selected in a very long time. I really doubt it's because they have seen a few highlight videos and are basing their mocks on that. More than likely, it's a combination of what they see themselves and hear from team scouts, executives, etc.

Outside of Giannis (who wasn't taken in the lottery IIRC), and Porzingis, have any of those guys lived up to expectations yet? Maybe JV (very debatable), but otherwise there's been a lot of overvaluing going on based on track record to date.

Giannis was #15, so technically 1 spot outside. I don't see how these guys, as a collective whole, haven't lived up to expectations, but the domestic kids have. Based on the number of busts on the domestic side, it's fair to say that there is no greater risk in drafting a foreign player.

The Bender case is interesting. Some think he's getting pegged this high simply on his size, but if that's the case then why didn't players like Gobert, Nurkic, Nogeira, etc. get drafted much higher simply for their size? The likelihood is that people are seeing something in Bender that the majority of us simply don't have accessibility to. Fair?

That's simply it, he hasn't played enough for anyone to come up with a definite conclusion.  He hasn't even played regular mins. So his coach doesn't think he is ready. 

And Benders reason for declaring for the draft? 

I'm not stating he needs stay but there is a "rush" feeling. He will do well in combine measurements. Maybe even individual workouts. But nobody will still know how he does in 5 on 5 play against good players. Better players than he is used to playing with and against.

We don't know what his stamina level is like.  If in stressful situations (5 min left) how he reacts.   If teams takeaway his strong pts or he is struggling what can he do to overcome on the fly

Right now the bigger question for me anyways is why he didn't get consistent playing time for a team that really could of used his so called talents

Triboy, you constantly contradict yourself so much that you don't even realize you do so, and I won't even bother to address it.

Bender is 18. This means that he would be a high school senior. How would he look playing on that level against peers his same age? Surely it's reasonable to suggest he would be one of the best players in the country, a guy all schools would covet, and a player that would be pegged on the same tier as a Giles, Tatum, and Jackson and a virtual lock to be a top 5 pick in 2017.

[TheSundanceKid]

Every year we get some mystery guys some they are Porzingas and sometimes they are Darko.

http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/106856/nba-draft-the-numbers-on-international-lottery-picks

The supposedly great Israelis stats.   I concede his shooting is better but he has a lot of other problem areas.

http://basket.co.il/PlayerPage.asp?PlayerNumber=03&TeamId=950&cYear=2016&cView=2&lang=en

Still not the second coming folks.  Almost not blocks and crappy rebounding.

Due to the amount of international scouting nowadays you have far more hits than you have misses. The days of busts, like Tskitishvili and Darko, are fewer than ever. Could they still happen? Of course. However, when a player is projected to be a lottery pick it's usually for good reason.


International Lottery selections since 2010

2010
0

2011
Kanter
Valanciunus
Biyombo
Vesely

2012
0

2013
Greek Freek

2014
Exum
Saric

2015
Porzingis
Hezonja
Mudiay


You can easily say that the last international lottery pick that was a flat out bust was Vesely in 2011. It's not as though taking a domestic player provides a better percentage of success. It just might be that casual fans, those that aren't previed to amount of information of foreign players, feel much more at ease basing their opinion on something they know and have actually seen. Bender is projected to go top 3 by most every publication. This would be the highest international player selected in a very long time. I really doubt it's because they have seen a few highlight videos and are basing their mocks on that. More than likely, it's a combination of what they see themselves and hear from team scouts, executives, etc.

Outside of Giannis (who wasn't taken in the lottery IIRC), and Porzingis, have any of those guys lived up to expectations yet? Maybe JV (very debatable), but otherwise there's been a lot of overvaluing going on based on track record to date.

Giannis was #15, so technically 1 spot outside. I don't see how these guys, as a collective whole, haven't lived up to expectations, but the domestic kids have. Based on the number of busts on the domestic side, it's fair to say that there is no greater risk in drafting a foreign player.

The Bender case is interesting. Some think he's getting pegged this high simply on his size, but if that's the case then why didn't players like Gobert, Nurkic, Nogeira, etc. get drafted much higher simply for their size? The likelihood is that people are seeing something in Bender that the majority of us simply don't have accessibility to. Fair?

That's simply it, he hasn't played enough for anyone to come up with a definite conclusion.  He hasn't even played regular mins. So his coach doesn't think he is ready. 

And Benders reason for declaring for the draft? 

I'm not stating he needs stay but there is a "rush" feeling. He will do well in combine measurements. Maybe even individual workouts. But nobody will still know how he does in 5 on 5 play against good players. Better players than he is used to playing with and against.

We don't know what his stamina level is like.  If in stressful situations (5 min left) how he reacts.   If teams takeaway his strong pts or he is struggling what can he do to overcome on the fly

Right now the bigger question for me anyways is why he didn't get consistent playing time for a team that really could of used his so called talents

Honestly the coach is the main reason. Why did Russell and Randle get benched earlier this year? Because of the coach, not because they weren't good enough. Also the fact that he was unlikely to be in their long term plans probably played a part, why invest time in someone who won't be around long? There is some real stubbornness with Euro coaches who have NBA prospects on their teams. We saw the same last year with Hezonja