We should not have bought out David Lee

[greece66]

Been saying all season that David Lee can still play.  His per-minute numbers were the same as they always have been.   He didn't fit our system.  Weak defensively and no 3-point shot is a bad mix for what we were doing.

^This.
I am not surprised we wanted to get rid of him- playing Zeller instead makes a lot more sense at many levels.

What surprised me what that not a single team would offer something, at least a second rounder or a busted rookie in exchange for him 

Morale: when you are about to buy out X, have your GM keep saying to the media //X is the most valuable player of our team right now, no question of trading him//

(to be fair, DA tried to keep the story as low profile as possible but DLee was not helping much)

[greece66]

He didn't fit our system.  Weak defensively and no 3-point shot is a bad mix for what we were doing.

Just remember that every time you mention we should trade for Okafor.

For once, I have to say LarBrd33 makes a sensible point.

Also, the comparison of DLee to Okafor is top kek... Okafor is 20 not 32 and with a history of injuries. He is actually younger than many of the players that will be drafted in 2016. He is very athletic and already an efficient scorer (and to a lesser extent rebounder).

Nothing stops him from improving his D (same way Sully did) and his shooting is not as bad as many ppl assume. We are not talking of Drummond here  When it comes to shooting he is comparable to (albeit worse than) Zeller.

If you put such a player early in a system, chances are he will adapt with time. By that, I do not mean Okafor can become a 35% 3pt shooter, but developing an efficient long two is not out of the question.

But at any rate, the point of getting Okafor is really to get someone who can help with scoring- getting a player who is a threat whenever he gets the ball in the paint will be a big boost for our offence, esp. late in games.

[saltlover]

He didn't fit our system.  Weak defensively and no 3-point shot is a bad mix for what we were doing.

Just remember that every time you mention we should trade for Okafor.

For once, I have to say LarBrd33 makes a sensible point.

Also, the comparison of DLee to Okafor is top kek... Okafor is 20 not 32 and with a history of injuries. He is actually younger than many of the players that will be drafted in 2016. He is very athletic and already an efficient scorer (and to a lesser extent rebounder).

Nothing stops him from improving his D (same way Sully did) and his shooting is not as bad as many ppl assume. We are not talking of Drummond here  When it comes to shooting he is comparable to (albeit worse than) Zeller.

If you put such a player early in a system, chances are he will adapt with time. By that, I do not mean Okafor can become a 35% 3pt shooter, but developing an efficient long two is not out of the question.

But at any rate, the point of getting Okafor is really to get someone who can help with scoring- getting a player who is a threat whenever he gets the ball in the paint will be a big boost for our offence, esp. late in games.

The point of getting Okafor was to trade him on draft night/over the summer for Love or Cousins.  If he offered something useful this season, that would have been gravy, but Okafor was a means to an end, given that we have a ~20% chance at the top two pick that would also bring back Cousins or Love.

[Fafnir]

Lee wasn't going to do a darn thing for this team going forward this season.

Nope.

Even for Dallas I expect him to be the worst big in their rotation numberswise even if he's back to producing points/rebounds. Lee has for while been somewhat an empty stats guy due to his defensive limitations and poor team rebounding.

[greece66]

The point of getting Okafor was to trade him on draft night/over the summer for Love or Cousins.  If he offered something useful this season, that would have been gravy, but Okafor was a means to an end, given that we have a ~20% chance at the top two pick that would also bring back Cousins or Love.

[Going wildly off topic now, but isn't this the fun of forums?]

I would take Okafor over Love now. Rookie contract, no injury issues, higher ceiling. Love would be a better fit for our system, granted, but  I would go for the younger and (IMO) potentially better player.

Cousins is a very different story, and comparing the two is so complicated, I can't even try to start doing it right now. One thing I can say,  I would definitely take him over Love. Now, supposing we had Okafor and Sac knocked on our door, it would depend much on the particulars of the deal.

One quick point: if what Danny has in mind is getting Cousins/Love why go for Okafor? I can't see Cleveland being much interested (they are way beyond salary considerations anyway) and Sac trading Cousins for a rookie hmmm.... Unless what you have in mind is a mega-deal like last year's one (?)

[Chris22]

David Lee expressed appreciation to Celtics staffers who helped prepare him to hit the ground running in Dallas by putting him through a boot camp of sorts after he fell out of Boston's rotation. "They challenged me for six weeks to get in the best shape of my life," said Lee, who expected to change teams via trade or a buyout. "I tried to do that." Lee cut his diet to essentially proteins and vegetables and worked out under the supervision of Celtics trainers two or three times per day. He has averaged 13.5 points and 11.5 rebounds during the Mavs' two-game winning streak.
------------------------------------------------------------------

Why are we helping Dallas when we own their pick???

[Lucky17]

Why are people is someone freaking out about a pick in the mid-teens?

[inverselock]

Not too worried.  They beat Denver and Minnesota, 5th & 6th worst.

[saltlover]

The point of getting Okafor was to trade him on draft night/over the summer for Love or Cousins.  If he offered something useful this season, that would have been gravy, but Okafor was a means to an end, given that we have a ~20% chance at the top two pick that would also bring back Cousins or Love.

[Going wildly off topic now, but isn't this the fun of forums?]

I would take Okafor over Love now. Rookie contract, no injury issues, higher ceiling. Love would be a better fit for our system, granted, but  I would go for the younger and (IMO) potentially better player.

Cousins is a very different story, and comparing the two is so complicated, I can't even try to start doing it right now. One thing I can say,  I would definitely take him over Love. Now, supposing we had Okafor and Sac knocked on our door, it would depend much on the particulars of the deal.

One quick point: if what Danny has in mind is getting Cousins/Love why go for Okafor? I can't see Cleveland being much interested (they are way beyond salary considerations anyway) and Sac trading Cousins for a rookie hmmm.... Unless what you have in mind is a mega-deal like last year's one (?)

Firstly, I admit my statement was purely conjecture.  But I don't think Okafor is a great fit on this team.  I don't think he's a bad fit, so acquiring and being unable to trade him again isn't the end of the world.  But we have a good team today, and Okafor is a couple years away from being a game-changer, which is what this team needs to be a very good team (the Warriors have redefined great, so the goal is to be "very good."). I'm not going to debate Cousins vs. Love, because there are probably 100 threads.  I'll just say I think both are better options than Okafor for the Celtics.

With regard to Cousins, it's generally accepted that the Kings want an impact young player for Cousins in addition to (or replacing) draft picks.  Okafor could very much be that player.  With three years left in his rookie deal, he couldn't leave the franchise for quite some time, especially given restricted free agency.

In terms of Love, I think he's more of a piece for a three-team deal than going straight to the Cavs, but he would make sense on that team.  The contract situations are beginning to get out of control over there.  They're already in luxury tax territory next season with only 8-9 guys under contract.  Do they want to let Dellavadova walk? JR Smith?  Do they want any free agent for more than the minimum?  Love makes $17 million more than Okafor.  I could very much see it being a choice between Love on the one hand and Okafor, Dellavadova, and Smith on the other hand.  I think Love has been given a little too much blame over there, but it isn't working like they planned, and losing two key role players because of it seems like a bad way to build a championship team.

Mind you, this is largely moot, because the point of trying to acquire Jah was to turn an uncertain asset (the Brookyln pick) into a more certain one (Okafor).  The value of the Brooklyn pick will be much more known the next time the C's can talk trade.  If that pick is #1 or #2, I don't expect Ainge will trade it for Okafor.  And if the pick is #4-6, I don't think Philly will trade Okafor for it.  If it's #3, maybe I could see that happening, but still unlikely.

[Chris22]

Why are people is someone freaking out about a pick in the mid-teens?

Why are we helping Mark Cuban?

[greece66]

Firstly, I admit my statement was purely conjecture.  But I don't think Okafor is a great fit on this team.  I don't think he's a bad fit, so acquiring and being unable to trade him again isn't the end of the world.  But we have a good team today, and Okafor is a couple years away from being a game-changer, which is what this team needs to be a very good team (the Warriors have redefined great, so the goal is to be "very good."). I'm not going to debate Cousins vs. Love, because there are probably 100 threads.  I'll just say I think both are better options than Okafor for the Celtics.

With regard to Cousins, it's generally accepted that the Kings want an impact young player for Cousins in addition to (or replacing) draft picks.  Okafor could very much be that player.  With three years left in his rookie deal, he couldn't leave the franchise for quite some time, especially given restricted free agency.

In terms of Love, I think he's more of a piece for a three-team deal than going straight to the Cavs, but he would make sense on that team.  The contract situations are beginning to get out of control over there.  They're already in luxury tax territory next season with only 8-9 guys under contract.  Do they want to let Dellavadova walk? JR Smith?  Do they want any free agent for more than the minimum?  Love makes $17 million more than Okafor.  I could very much see it being a choice between Love on the one hand and Okafor, Dellavadova, and Smith on the other hand.  I think Love has been given a little too much blame over there, but it isn't working like they planned, and losing two key role players because of it seems like a bad way to build a championship team.

Mind you, this is largely moot, because the point of trying to acquire Jah was to turn an uncertain asset (the Brookyln pick) into a more certain one (Okafor).  The value of the Brooklyn pick will be much more known the next time the C's can talk trade.  If that pick is #1 or #2, I don't expect Ainge will trade it for Okafor.  And if the pick is #4-6, I don't think Philly will trade Okafor for it.  If it's #3, maybe I could see that happening, but still unlikely.

I agree with the bolded part. Even if Okafor was the mystery man Ainge was after, Philly turned down the deal. This deal would have been about them increasing their % of getting a top 2 pick in the draft, while the exact value of the pick was still undetermined. I also think that once the value has been defined with precision a trade will be less likely, unless it falls exactly in the 3-4 pick territory (depending also on Philly's own pick, what happens with the LAL pick etc).

Having said this, Hinkie might trade Okafor in the summer (tbh, personally I think the smart thing is to keep him unless they receive a super-offer). The reason I get so excited about Okafor is that he is a young solid scoring center.

I'm a bit fed up of the other options:


-The Love Affair has had more episodes than Seinfeld. After season 6, I lost interest ...
-Cousins I love as  player and if we could set up a three team deal to get him as you describe, it would be great. But IMO this has a low % of actually happening.

Finally, Horford is great and also an excellent fit, and he will instantly upgrade us to a contender for the ECF for the next couple of years. But he has an expiration date. I'm afraid that our team's maturing and his entering the usual slow decline of professional athletes in their 30s will not match well. All in all, a short term fix in a team where coach and players alike are young and could have potentially a decade together - think of the early Pops SAS keeping its core to this day. (add to the mix the ton of incoming picks and we could  become the by far youngest elite team in the EC  )

Nothing new here really, finding a solid big to build around is arguably the most challenging part for front offices these days unless you get super on draft day  (just look at SAS trying with tooth and nail to keep Timmy playing for as long as possible...)

[tankcity!]

He didn't fit our system.  Weak defensively and no 3-point shot is a bad mix for what we were doing.

Just remember that every time you mention we should trade for Okafor.

This one made me laugh Eddie, haha. That was a good one. Still, it's weird how obsessed you are with the bird.

[Alleyoopster]

I can't believe Philly is even dreaming of trading Okafor unless there are glaring red flags on his health status. (For example, lets say they have done the analytics based on medical information and their medical staff feel that there is 50% chance or better he'll re-injure his knee within the next 1-3 years.)  Or,they'd like to get a healthier top 3 player in the 2016 draft to replace him just for insurance purposes.   

[crimson_stallion]

Been saying all season that David Lee can still play.  His per-minute numbers were the same as they always have been.   He didn't fit our system.  Weak defensively and no 3-point shot is a bad mix for what we were doing.

Precisely. 

The guy has skills, it was obvious just by looking at his statistical production.  The vast majority of the time, when we gave him minutes he was giving us production.  Just didn't fit our game/system and we didn't have the depth to give him the minutes.

Happy that he's doing well in Dallas.  I think he deserves it. 

[crimson_stallion]

The point of getting Okafor was to trade him on draft night/over the summer for Love or Cousins.  If he offered something useful this season, that would have been gravy, but Okafor was a means to an end, given that we have a ~20% chance at the top two pick that would also bring back Cousins or Love.

[Going wildly off topic now, but isn't this the fun of forums?]

I would take Okafor over Love now. Rookie contract, no injury issues, higher ceiling. Love would be a better fit for our system, granted, but  I would go for the younger and (IMO) potentially better player.

Cousins is a very different story, and comparing the two is so complicated, I can't even try to start doing it right now. One thing I can say,  I would definitely take him over Love. Now, supposing we had Okafor and Sac knocked on our door, it would depend much on the particulars of the deal.

One quick point: if what Danny has in mind is getting Cousins/Love why go for Okafor? I can't see Cleveland being much interested (they are way beyond salary considerations anyway) and Sac trading Cousins for a rookie hmmm.... Unless what you have in mind is a mega-deal like last year's one (?)

I would take Love over Okafor any day - and that's saying something because I have made no effort to hide the way I feel about Love! lol

But seriously, that's a no brainer.  Love isn't player I like, but there is no denying he is a very good all-round player who has a very wide range of skills.  He's about 5x better than Okafor right now.