We should not have bought out David Lee

[Celtics4ever]

Love isn't player I like, but there is no denying he is a very good all-round player who has a very wide range of skills

Good all around players can play D, Love can't, so there I denied it.

[walker834]

He wanted to play. The Celtics  didn't need his contract anymore and it made sense to buy him out and pay less of it and let him play somewhere else.   Mickey, Zeller and Jerebko fits us better in spot minutes anyways.   He could have taken their minutes but then none of those guys would have been playing.

It worked out for  both parties. Just because he's playing well doesn't mean it wasn't the right move.

[guava_wrench]

Do people remember D Lee in NYC? Would always put up numbers, but had problems getting the minutes that fantasy basketball players expected. Coaches seem to regularly be regularly unimpressed by his stats.

[crimson_stallion]

Love isn't player I like, but there is no denying he is a very good all-round player who has a very wide range of skills

Good all around players can play D, Love can't, so there I denied it.

Neither can Okafor...

Anyway the stats actually indicate that Love is a better defender than he's given credit for.  His advanced defensive stats have actually been pretty good every year.

Kevin Love is a former star (arguably superstar) who has now fallen back to being just a really good starter and a borderline star.

Okafor is not a good starter at this point in time.  If Okafor was on a team with some actually front court talent, I question if he'd even be able to hold down a starting spot...his deficiencies really are that bad.

You need to consider the fact that Ish Smith is averaging 14.5 / 7.3 / 3.7 in 27 games for the 76ers this year.  Thisis a guy who has changed teams something like 8 times the past 5 years and has career averages of 5 points, 3 assists and 2 rebounds in 14.9 minutes.

Isaiah Canaan and Robert Covington are averaging double figures on that team, for goodness sake.

If you look at the Sixers stats, pretty much everybody on that roster is averaging about as many points as they are FGA...which means everybody on the team is horribly inefficient offensively and whoever gets given the shot attempts is going to put up the numbers.

ANYBODY with the slightest hint of talent can put up big scoring numbers on a team as horribly bad as this 76ers team. I do not understand why people allow Okafor 17.5 PPG (the only stat of his that is actually noteworthy) impress them so much given the quality of the team he is playing on given that he's taking 15 FGA per game to get those points. 

Love's numbers aren't much better this year (if at all) but at least he has a versatile skill set and can score in a variety of ways. The "post up" is the only phrase in Okafor's basketball vocabulary.

[LarBrd33]

Don't know what Okafor has to do with this thread.  He's a 20 year old with clear star potential.  If you can get that for a questionable draft pick, you have to regardless of fit.  Obviously Ainge agreed which is why he reportedly offered the Brooklyn 1st (+ Avery Bradley according to rumors) for Okafor.  Okafor's floor is Brook Lopez/Al Jefferson.  His ceiling could be a lot more.  The floor of the draft pick could be total bust.  Okafor's the type of talent you could potentially build around and adapt a system for.

As for Lee, we weren't going to build our offense around him.  He was brought in mainly for the tradability of his 15 million dollar contract.  You don't adapt a system for a 32 year old half season rental.  His per-36 numbers this season of 16.4 points, 10 rebounds, 4 assists, 1 block and 1 steal with 45% shooting and 78% from the line were pretty much identical to his career averages.  It was clear he still had some game... just not one that was going to work here right now.   I wish him the best of luck in Dallas. 

As for Kevin Love, he has offensive versatility and range.  He'd probably fit in this current system a lot better than either of those guys.

[alldaboston]

Don't know what Okafor has to do with this thread.  He's a 20 year old with clear star potential.  If you can get that for a questionable draft pick, you have to regardless of fit.  Obviously Ainge agreed which is why he reportedly offered the Brooklyn 1st (+ Avery Bradley according to rumors) for Okafor.  Okafor's floor is Brook Lopez/Al Jefferson.  His ceiling could be a lot more.  The floor of the draft pick could be total bust.  Okafor's the type of talent you could potentially build around and adapt a system for.

As for Lee, we weren't going to build our offense around him.  He was brought in mainly for the tradability of his 15 million dollar contract.  You don't adapt a system for a 32 year old half season rental.  His per-36 numbers this season of 16.4 points, 10 rebounds, 4 assists, 1 block and 1 steal with 45% shooting and 78% from the line were pretty much identical to his career averages.  It was clear he still had some game... just not one that was going to work here right now.   I wish him the best of luck in Dallas. 

As for Kevin Love, he has offensive versatility and range.  He'd probably fit in this current system a lot better than either of those guys.

First you claim that you're sure Okafor was the target (based off one report), and now you bring up AB here? Show me which rumor said AB was included.

[Chris22]

Lee was a +10 tonight.
Dallas has won three in a row since he joined them.

[alldaboston]

Lee was a +10 tonight.
Dallas has won three in a row since he joined them.

That's nice. Does it matter to us anymore? No. We've gone our separate ways. We never could use him the right way, it wasn't a great fit. Let's just move on.

[jambr380]

Lee was a +10 tonight.
Dallas has won three in a row since he joined them.

I'll say it again for the third time in this thread - how could we come to an agreement with Lee to waive him without getting a guarantee that he would not sign with BKN or Dal? I get it, Lee was totally ineffective here and retirement is very near, but that didn't mean that he couldn't find a fit for the last 30 or so games this season.

It's like Lee has had more of a positive impact than Rondo did last year. I guess they had to eek something extra out of the trade that brought us Crowder.

[Lucky17]

Lee was a +10 tonight.
Dallas has won three in a row since he joined them.

Played three lottery teams. Post hoc ergo propter hoc?

[MJohnnyboy]

Lee was a +10 tonight.
Dallas has won three in a row since he joined them.

I feel Lee's production in Dallas reflects more off of him just being a massive tool when he was a Celtic than it reflects off the "mistake" of letting him go.

He came into the season out of shape, lost the starting job Brad gave him, voiced his displeasure over his minutes, and only after CBS & Danny were fed up with his crappy play that they wanted him gone did he decide to get his ass in gear. At this point I don't care if he was a consummate professional when Brad benched him. He didn't give a crap when he was here and only cared when he knew he was one foot out the door.

Also, during this streak, the Mavericks beat 3 of the 10 worst teams in the league. Consider me not too impressed.

[Greyman]

He wanted to play. The Celtics  didn't need his contract anymore and it made sense to buy him out and pay less of it and let him play somewhere else.   Mickey, Zeller and Jerebko fits us better in spot minutes anyways.   He could have taken their minutes but then none of those guys would have been playing.

It worked out for  both parties. Just because he's playing well doesn't mean it wasn't the right move.

This. End of story.

[Alleyoopster]

Lee was a +10 tonight.
Dallas has won three in a row since he joined them.

I'll say it again for the third time in this thread - how could we come to an agreement with Lee to waive him without getting a guarantee that he would not sign with BKN or Dal? I get it, Lee was totally ineffective here and retirement is very near, but that didn't mean that he couldn't find a fit for the last 30 or so games this season.

It's like Lee has had more of a positive impact than Rondo did last year. I guess they had to eek something extra out of the trade that brought us Crowder.

I would say it would be against the NBA's Collective Bargaining Agreement for a team to ask for a contingency that guarantees that a released player would not sign with certain teams. 

[crimson_stallion]

I feel Lee's production in Dallas reflects more off of him just being a massive tool when he was a Celtic than it reflects off the "mistake" of letting him go.

How on earth was Lee a 'tool' in Boston?

He's a former two time All-Star who just came off winning an NBA title, and who (at 32 years of age) still has at least a couple of productive basketball years left in him. 

He was traded to the Celtics, after which the Celtics staff went on record saying he would have a key role for the team - then he was eliminated from the rotation completely despite putting up very productive Per 36 numbers while he was on the court.

The guy has maybe 2 or 3 years of productive basketball left in him, and he wants to spend the last couple of years of his career doing something other than sitting on the bench and waving towels.  I don't see anything wrong with that.

Yeah he forced things a number of times when he got on the court, but what do you expect?  If you are player with his resume and you know you can be productive, but you're being benched on a nightly basis, then you're going to be dying for minutes.  Any chance you get on the court you're going to be over eager to try and prove yourself when in the opportunity arises. I can understand that.

This is after spending a season buried on the bench in Golden State.
 
I don't blame Lee for anything.  I wish him well, I think he deserves it.

[crimson_stallion]

Don't know what Okafor has to do with this thread. .

One person commented saying that they would rather have Okafor than Kevin Love. 

I replied to that by saying Love is much better than Okafor because he is a very good all round player, which Okafor is not.

Then another person replied saying Love isn't an all-round player because he is a poor defensive player.

I responded to this by saying that Love's advanced stats indicate that he is not a negative defensive player, and that Okafor also does not play defence (hence this is not a valid argument to take Okafor over Love). 

I think by now just about everybody on this forum probably knows how much I dislike Kevin Love - I absolutely can't stand the guy.  But even I can be objective enough to recognise that compared against Okafor, Love is on an entire other level. 

Compare the two to try and decide who is the better player is an almost laughable goal.  It's blatantly obvious that Love is a far superior player in almost every possible way.  Even in the one area where Okafor excels (post scoring) it's still debatable if he is any better than Love.

The only rational reason you would take Okafor over Love is upside, and even there it's a gamble because nobody knows if Okafor will ever become as good as Love is now, even in his current (declined) state.  All you can do is guess and assume and hope for the best.