Danny Ainge on Toucher and Rich (Potential "Big Trade" Discussed)

[Boris Badenov]

We talked about it weeks ago.  If you wouldn't trade smart for the Suns unprotected pick, you should understand why ainge was willing to give up the Brooklyn pick for Okafor.  Worse pick and better prospect.  Totally logical.  Also makes sense why Philly is deciding to wait until summer.  Pick is too risky.   I wonder what else we were including with the Brooklyn pick.  Probably one of the young guards.

Ainge might have put top 2 protection on it or something, too.

Basically offering PHI Kris Dunn/Bender/Brown for Okafor. Seems to work for both teams in terms of filling needs.

Then if it didn't convey you could offer the C's 2017 (which is the BKN 2017), plus another first rounder or two.

[LarBrd33]

We talked about it weeks ago.  If you wouldn't trade smart for the Suns unprotected pick, you should understand why ainge was willing to give up the Brooklyn pick for Okafor.  Worse pick and better prospect.  Totally logical.  Also makes sense why Philly is deciding to wait until summer.  Pick is too risky.   I wonder what else we were including with the Brooklyn pick.  Probably one of the young guards.

Ainge might have put top 2 protection on it or something, too.

Basically offering PHI Kris Dunn/Bender/Brown for Okafor. Seems to work for both teams in terms of filling needs.

Then if it didn't convey you could offer the C's 2017 (which is the BKN 2017), plus another first rounder or two.

Can't put protection on the Brooklyn pick.  It was probably the Brooklyn pick and additional assets.  Outside the top 2, this draft doesn't look so hot and Okafor might end up better than all of them.  The price would have been hefty.

Already have multiple reports saying it was Okafor and multiple reports saying ainge was willing to give up the pick for his target.  It fits.

Good news is that Okafor will remain available.  Noel has been great.  Signs point to embiid returning.  As long as Brooklyn doesn't spoil the pick, we will have a shot to talk business with philly this summer.

[jpotter33]

We talked about it weeks ago.  If you wouldn't trade smart for the Suns unprotected pick, you should understand why ainge was willing to give up the Brooklyn pick for Okafor.  Worse pick and better prospect.  Totally logical.  Also makes sense why Philly is deciding to wait until summer.  Pick is too risky.   I wonder what else we were including with the Brooklyn pick.  Probably one of the young guards.

Ainge might have put top 2 protection on it or something, too.

Basically offering PHI Kris Dunn/Bender/Brown for Okafor. Seems to work for both teams in terms of filling needs.

Then if it didn't convey you could offer the C's 2017 (which is the BKN 2017), plus another first rounder or two.

Can't put protection on the Brooklyn pick.  It was probably the Brooklyn pick and additional assets.  Outside the top 2, this draft doesn't look so hot and Okafor might end up better than all of them.  The price would have been hefty.

Already have multiple reports saying it was Okafor and multiple reports saying ainge was willing to give up the pick for his target.  It fits.

Good news is that Okafor will remain available.  Noel has been great.  Signs point to embiid returning.  As long as Brooklyn doesn't spoil the pick, we will have a shot to talk business with philly this summer.

Smart was probably the sticking point. I wouldn't give up Smart plus the Brooklyn pick just for Okafor, especially given his questionable fit on our team.

[LarBrd33]

We talked about it weeks ago.  If you wouldn't trade smart for the Suns unprotected pick, you should understand why ainge was willing to give up the Brooklyn pick for Okafor.  Worse pick and better prospect.  Totally logical.  Also makes sense why Philly is deciding to wait until summer.  Pick is too risky.   I wonder what else we were including with the Brooklyn pick.  Probably one of the young guards.

Ainge might have put top 2 protection on it or something, too.

Basically offering PHI Kris Dunn/Bender/Brown for Okafor. Seems to work for both teams in terms of filling needs.

Then if it didn't convey you could offer the C's 2017 (which is the BKN 2017), plus another first rounder or two.

Can't put protection on the Brooklyn pick.  It was probably the Brooklyn pick and additional assets.  Outside the top 2, this draft doesn't look so hot and Okafor might end up better than all of them.  The price would have been hefty.

Already have multiple reports saying it was Okafor and multiple reports saying ainge was willing to give up the pick for his target.  It fits.

Good news is that Okafor will remain available.  Noel has been great.  Signs point to embiid returning.  As long as Brooklyn doesn't spoil the pick, we will have a shot to talk business with philly this summer.

Smart was probably the sticking point. I wouldn't give up Smart plus the Brooklyn pick just for Okafor, especially given his questionable fit on our team.

That would have been steep. 

It might have been as simple as the Brooklyn pick and filler for Okafor.  We know the pick was involved.  We know ainge considered it a no brainier.   Trading that pick for Okafor would have been a no brainer.  It's unlikely to end up top 2 and Okafor might be better than either of those guys anyways.  Philly would be adding to their ping ball ball chances of landing Simmons, but more likely they were moving a can't miss prospect for a risky draft choice.  The Brooklyn pick had value primarily because it could end up Ben Simmons... But if it ultimately ends up outside the top 5, Philly would look stupid for selling Okafor too soon. 

[Dino Pitino]

We talked about it weeks ago.  If you wouldn't trade smart for the Suns unprotected pick, you should understand why ainge was willing to give up the Brooklyn pick for Okafor.  Worse pick and better prospect.  Totally logical.  Also makes sense why Philly is deciding to wait until summer.  Pick is too risky.   I wonder what else we were including with the Brooklyn pick.  Probably one of the young guards.

Ainge might have put top 2 protection on it or something, too.

Basically offering PHI Kris Dunn/Bender/Brown for Okafor. Seems to work for both teams in terms of filling needs.

Then if it didn't convey you could offer the C's 2017 (which is the BKN 2017), plus another first rounder or two.

Can't put protection on the Brooklyn pick.  It was probably the Brooklyn pick and additional assets.  Outside the top 2, this draft doesn't look so hot and Okafor might end up better than all of them.  The price would have been hefty.

Already have multiple reports saying it was Okafor and multiple reports saying ainge was willing to give up the pick for his target.  It fits.

Good news is that Okafor will remain available.  Noel has been great.  Signs point to embiid returning.  As long as Brooklyn doesn't spoil the pick, we will have a shot to talk business with philly this summer.

Or is it just the Herald report, repeated by ESPN?

Regardless, the Herald report alone trumps any message board insiders. So bummed. I know he's going to be an offensive force, and already is in certain ways. But to take this team to the next level I think we need a defensive anchor, and the best that can be said about Okafor's defense is that someday it might rise to the level of decent.

[LarBrd33]

We talked about it weeks ago.  If you wouldn't trade smart for the Suns unprotected pick, you should understand why ainge was willing to give up the Brooklyn pick for Okafor.  Worse pick and better prospect.  Totally logical.  Also makes sense why Philly is deciding to wait until summer.  Pick is too risky.   I wonder what else we were including with the Brooklyn pick.  Probably one of the young guards.

Ainge might have put top 2 protection on it or something, too.

Basically offering PHI Kris Dunn/Bender/Brown for Okafor. Seems to work for both teams in terms of filling needs.

Then if it didn't convey you could offer the C's 2017 (which is the BKN 2017), plus another first rounder or two.

Can't put protection on the Brooklyn pick.  It was probably the Brooklyn pick and additional assets.  Outside the top 2, this draft doesn't look so hot and Okafor might end up better than all of them.  The price would have been hefty.

Already have multiple reports saying it was Okafor and multiple reports saying ainge was willing to give up the pick for his target.  It fits.

Good news is that Okafor will remain available.  Noel has been great.  Signs point to embiid returning.  As long as Brooklyn doesn't spoil the pick, we will have a shot to talk business with philly this summer.

Or is it just the Herald report, repeated by ESPN?

Regardless, the Herald report alone trumps any message board insiders. So bummed. I know he's going to be an offensive force, and already is in certain ways. But to take this team to the next level I think we need a defensive anchor, and the best that can be said about Okafor's defense is that someday it might rise to the level of decent.

I'd love to get Nerlens Noel, because he's got a chance to be a transcendent defender, but Okafor would be an awesome addition.  Kid has real star potential. 

Oh well.   It's highly unlikely Brooklyn digs themselves out of the lottery at this point.   Just got to hope the ping pong balls are kind to us.

[Dino Pitino]

I'd love to get Nerlens Noel, because he's got a chance to be a transcendent defender, but Okafor would be an awesome addition.  Kid has real star potential. 

Agreed about Noel. Sad that apparently Philly has made the right decision. Good for them, sucks for us.

Who cares about stardom, though. What matters is winning. Can we win a championship in the next 3-5 years with a center whose defense is subpar? He can score 25 a game and make the All Star game every year and be considered a "franchise talent", but if that doesn't lead to a championship then who cares. When is the last time a team with a defensively-weak center like him won a title? I think we'd have to go back to the Bulls 20 years ago.

I don't know. Maybe this is the new market inefficiency in a league that undervalues big men scoring buckets the old-fashioned way. Somebody please paint me a picture of a Celtics team centered around Okafor that could win it all.

[mctyson]

I wouldn't mind trading the Nets pick for Okafor.  His post offense is All-Star quality, sort of like Smart's defense.  Hard to find guys like that anywhere in the draft.

My guess is that Danny is concerned Brooklyn will play well enough in the last 27 games to move up from 3rd worst to maybe 4th or even 5th worse.  Otherwise, I don't see any reason in trading that pick until we know it is not #1.

[Boris Badenov]

We talked about it weeks ago.  If you wouldn't trade smart for the Suns unprotected pick, you should understand why ainge was willing to give up the Brooklyn pick for Okafor.  Worse pick and better prospect.  Totally logical.  Also makes sense why Philly is deciding to wait until summer.  Pick is too risky.   I wonder what else we were including with the Brooklyn pick.  Probably one of the young guards.

Ainge might have put top 2 protection on it or something, too.

Basically offering PHI Kris Dunn/Bender/Brown for Okafor. Seems to work for both teams in terms of filling needs.

Then if it didn't convey you could offer the C's 2017 (which is the BKN 2017), plus another first rounder or two.

Can't put protection on the Brooklyn pick.  It was probably the Brooklyn pick and additional assets.  Outside the top 2, this draft doesn't look so hot and Okafor might end up better than all of them.  The price would have been hefty.

Already have multiple reports saying it was Okafor and multiple reports saying ainge was willing to give up the pick for his target.  It fits.

Good news is that Okafor will remain available.  Noel has been great.  Signs point to embiid returning.  As long as Brooklyn doesn't spoil the pick, we will have a shot to talk business with philly this summer.

I wasn't thinking of standard protection.

Suppose the deal sends PHI the BKN pick. And part of the deal says "if the BKN pick is top 2, BOS keeps it and conveys to PHI the 2018 BKN pick (along with our 2016 1st or something)."

Perhaps some trade guru can explain some of the nuance here, is what I'm suggesting not possible? Does it create some sort of rift in the Stepien-time continuum?

I mean, in what I'm proposing the lottery outcome doesn't force BKN to do anything it isn't already doing - those 2016 and 2018 picks are already ours outright.

[chambers]

lol people calling a rookie with 17 points 8 rebounds and one of the lowest assisted scoring ratios for starting centers in the NBA a 'chump' and 'bum'.

The 76ers hatred is so over the top here.

[ssspence]

We talked about it weeks ago.  If you wouldn't trade smart for the Suns unprotected pick, you should understand why ainge was willing to give up the Brooklyn pick for Okafor.  Worse pick and better prospect.  Totally logical.  Also makes sense why Philly is deciding to wait until summer.  Pick is too risky.   I wonder what else we were including with the Brooklyn pick.  Probably one of the young guards.

Ainge might have put top 2 protection on it or something, too.

Basically offering PHI Kris Dunn/Bender/Brown for Okafor. Seems to work for both teams in terms of filling needs.

Then if it didn't convey you could offer the C's 2017 (which is the BKN 2017), plus another first rounder or two.

Can't put protection on the Brooklyn pick.  It was probably the Brooklyn pick and additional assets.  Outside the top 2, this draft doesn't look so hot and Okafor might end up better than all of them.  The price would have been hefty.

Already have multiple reports saying it was Okafor and multiple reports saying ainge was willing to give up the pick for his target.  It fits.

Good news is that Okafor will remain available.  Noel has been great.  Signs point to embiid returning.  As long as Brooklyn doesn't spoil the pick, we will have a shot to talk business with philly this summer.

Smart was probably the sticking point. I wouldn't give up Smart plus the Brooklyn pick just for Okafor, especially given his questionable fit on our team.

Isn't the point that there wasn't a sticking point? It sounds like the deal had been negotiated, but Philly backed out at the last minute.

[Moranis]

I'd love to get Nerlens Noel, because he's got a chance to be a transcendent defender, but Okafor would be an awesome addition.  Kid has real star potential. 

Agreed about Noel. Sad that apparently Philly has made the right decision. Good for them, sucks for us.

Who cares about stardom, though. What matters is winning. Can we win a championship in the next 3-5 years with a center whose defense is subpar? He can score 25 a game and make the All Star game every year and be considered a "franchise talent", but if that doesn't lead to a championship then who cares. When is the last time a team with a defensively-weak center like him won a title? I think we'd have to go back to the Bulls 20 years ago.

I don't know. Maybe this is the new market inefficiency in a league that undervalues big men scoring buckets the old-fashioned way. Somebody please paint me a picture of a Celtics team centered around Okafor that could win it all.

The Heat didn't exactly have strong defenders in the paint. Spurs had some real stinkers at center (though did have Timmy D obviously).

[tazzmaniac]

lol people calling a rookie with 17 points 8 rebounds and one of the lowest assisted scoring ratios for starting centers in the NBA a 'chump' and 'bum'.

The 76ers hatred is so over the top here.

It is also short sighted.  Everyone ought to be hoping Noel and Okafor do well.  Everyone ought to be hoping Embiid comes back strong and healthy.  Everyone ought to be hoping that Saric comes over next season and does well.  That would actually give the Sixers a logjam at the 4/5 and create a trading opportunity for Danny. 

[fairweatherfan]

We talked about it weeks ago.  If you wouldn't trade smart for the Suns unprotected pick, you should understand why ainge was willing to give up the Brooklyn pick for Okafor.  Worse pick and better prospect.  Totally logical.  Also makes sense why Philly is deciding to wait until summer.  Pick is too risky.   I wonder what else we were including with the Brooklyn pick.  Probably one of the young guards.

Ainge might have put top 2 protection on it or something, too.

Basically offering PHI Kris Dunn/Bender/Brown for Okafor. Seems to work for both teams in terms of filling needs.

Then if it didn't convey you could offer the C's 2017 (which is the BKN 2017), plus another first rounder or two.

Can't put protection on the Brooklyn pick.  It was probably the Brooklyn pick and additional assets.  Outside the top 2, this draft doesn't look so hot and Okafor might end up better than all of them.  The price would have been hefty.

Already have multiple reports saying it was Okafor and multiple reports saying ainge was willing to give up the pick for his target.  It fits.

Good news is that Okafor will remain available.  Noel has been great.  Signs point to embiid returning.  As long as Brooklyn doesn't spoil the pick, we will have a shot to talk business with philly this summer.

Smart was probably the sticking point. I wouldn't give up Smart plus the Brooklyn pick just for Okafor, especially given his questionable fit on our team.

That would have been steep. 

It might have been as simple as the Brooklyn pick and filler for Okafor.  We know the pick was involved.  We know ainge considered it a no brainier.   Trading that pick for Okafor would have been a no brainer.  It's unlikely to end up top 2 and Okafor might be better than either of those guys anyways.  Philly would be adding to their ping ball ball chances of landing Simmons, but more likely they were moving a can't miss prospect for a risky draft choice.  The Brooklyn pick had value primarily because it could end up Ben Simmons... But if it ultimately ends up outside the top 5, Philly would look stupid for selling Okafor too soon.

The quote was that it was NOT a no-brainer.


http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/25488601/danny-ainge-says-celtics-almost-traded-nets-draft-pick-at-deadline

[tazzmaniac]

I'd love to get Nerlens Noel, because he's got a chance to be a transcendent defender, but Okafor would be an awesome addition.  Kid has real star potential. 

Agreed about Noel. Sad that apparently Philly has made the right decision. Good for them, sucks for us.

Who cares about stardom, though. What matters is winning. Can we win a championship in the next 3-5 years with a center whose defense is subpar? He can score 25 a game and make the All Star game every year and be considered a "franchise talent", but if that doesn't lead to a championship then who cares. When is the last time a team with a defensively-weak center like him won a title? I think we'd have to go back to the Bulls 20 years ago.

I don't know. Maybe this is the new market inefficiency in a league that undervalues big men scoring buckets the old-fashioned way. Somebody please paint me a picture of a Celtics team centered around Okafor that could win it all.

I don't see any reason Okafor can't be developed into an average defensive center.  I'd certainly expect his offensive to improve.  He ought to at least be able to shoot well out to 18 feet.  He'll become a better passer.  To build around him, I think you'd need an Ibaka type PF.  You'd need a good passing PG that knows how to feed post players.  You'd want good outside shooting from the other players.  Obviously you'd want good perimeter defenders. 

Most every team seems to be focused on becoming more like GSW.  The emphasis is on 3pt shooting and on small ball lineups.  You don't become a championship team by following the herd.  A dominant interior scorer would force opponents to adapt.  They'd pay a price for going to their small ball lineup.  The pace of play in the playoffs slows down.  Playoff teams generally are the best defensive teams and scoring in the half court becomes more critical.  A dominant interior scorer would enhance our playoff chances.