Blakely: Keep an eye out for a potential Barnes for Crowder swap

[SHAQATTACK]

I don't understand where people are seeing all this promise and high ceiling for Barnes. When has he shown it? Where is the substantive case for Barnes as a potential star? His situation is being compared to Harden's in OKC, but Harden actually proved his star potential. I know it's a deeply flawed metric, but Harden's PER was 21+, whereas Barnes's PER is below average. You'd expect a future star with a high ceiling to have a better PER, right? To have a huge game every now and then? On that Warriors team, in his auxiliary role, with such greatness surrounding him, with all that ball movement, you'd expect him to have some games with lots of assists, no? His assists per game is curiously low, and he never has games like that. What evidence is there that he has the kind of potential that pro-Barnes people think he has? Because I don't see it. And nothing of the sort has been posted in this thread yet. All the substance points to Crowder being much more valuable. And yet people want to not only trade Crowder for him, but then pay him three times as much as Crowder makes? Good lord, why? Because of the residual swag of being a lottery pick?

Perfect TP !

[BornReady]

this trade would benefit GSW greatly
as barnes is looking at a pay rise next season
while crowder is already locked up to a steal of a contract

only real downside for them  is whether barnes develops into the star he was seen as in both college and high school

[wiley]

Enormously great trade for GSW. Not so much of a fan for us.

Agree with this.  We could hope that getting more shots would turn Barnes into something
of a star, as there is no way to say right now that he can definitely do it.
Meanwhile our defense and leadership takes a hit. 

I'd want a Golden State first considering defense and contract situation.  Then I'd cross my fingers.
Might or might not work out.  The only sure thing is that it would cost more.

Crowder improves Golden State's chances agains what will be a tougher matchup than last year in the finals (if Cleveland's stars stay healthy this time.)

Agree a mid-season trade is odd with a team doing as well as GS, but in this case the chemistry thing is overrated.  They'd get even better and the chemistry would follow that.

[Dino Pitino]

I'll take Crowder and his 5 year bargain contract over Barnes and what will be a max or near max deal. Barnes doesn't have the handles to create and I've always seen him defer or not step up in big games dating back to UNC. I'd rather pay Crowder 3x less for marginally less potential production.

I'll take a shot at something greater. I'm not sure what you're remembering from his UNC days, but I recall his 40 pt, 8 rebound explosion against Clemson in the ACC tourney, back to back game winning 3s against VT and Florida State (within the same week), and more points in the NCAA tourney than any other UNC freshman.

That was five years ago, lol. It's as relevant now as what Marvin Williams did as a freshman. I'm getting a clearer picture of the reasons why people are still so high on Barnes, though. The fact that he was the top prospect of his high school class six years ago, the fact that he was a precocious freshman for a prestigious college program five years ago, and the fact that he was a lottery pick four years ago. All facts that are completely irrelevant now. Old hype dies hard, I guess.

[tarheelsxxiii]

I'll take Crowder and his 5 year bargain contract over Barnes and what will be a max or near max deal. Barnes doesn't have the handles to create and I've always seen him defer or not step up in big games dating back to UNC. I'd rather pay Crowder 3x less for marginally less potential production.

I'll take a shot at something greater. I'm not sure what you're remembering from his UNC days, but I recall his 40 pt, 8 rebound explosion against Clemson in the ACC tourney, back to back game winning 3s against VT and Florida State (within the same week), and more points in the NCAA tourney than any other UNC freshman.

That was five years ago, lol. It's as relevant now as what Marvin Williams did as a freshman. I'm getting a clearer picture of the reasons why people are still so high on Barnes, though. The fact that he was the top prospect of his high school class six years ago, the fact that he was a precocious freshman for a prestigious college program five years ago, and the fact that he was a lottery pick four years ago. All facts that are completely irrelevant now. Old hype dies hard, I guess.

First, in a post above, you asked very explicitly when he was considered a star prospect. What I stated was factual... and the purpose was to shed light on Eddie's personal bias (not factual, also seemed pretty inaccurate). So I'm refusing someone else, while also inadvertently (and unintentionally, as I don't recognize you by name) answering your question... and you reply with an insult? You read much more into it though, huh? Made it really lol-worthy for yourself? Enjoy.

More importantly, I stated below (2nd paragraph, which you cut out, in poor form...) exactly why I would deal for Barnes. I am an avid UNC fan, I've always loved Barnes, I actually do not think he's poised to make an all-star type leap in a new environment (like Boston), and yet I'd still trade for him. Imagine that? But, you missed the punch line with your 5-year-old-like selective attention. So... run along, read that, and then get back to me with more lollerskates, dude.

[Dino Pitino]

I'll take Crowder and his 5 year bargain contract over Barnes and what will be a max or near max deal. Barnes doesn't have the handles to create and I've always seen him defer or not step up in big games dating back to UNC. I'd rather pay Crowder 3x less for marginally less potential production.

I'll take a shot at something greater. I'm not sure what you're remembering from his UNC days, but I recall his 40 pt, 8 rebound explosion against Clemson in the ACC tourney, back to back game winning 3s against VT and Florida State (within the same week), and more points in the NCAA tourney than any other UNC freshman.

That was five years ago, lol. It's as relevant now as what Marvin Williams did as a freshman. I'm getting a clearer picture of the reasons why people are still so high on Barnes, though. The fact that he was the top prospect of his high school class six years ago, the fact that he was a precocious freshman for a prestigious college program five years ago, and the fact that he was a lottery pick four years ago. All facts that are completely irrelevant now. Old hype dies hard, I guess.

First, in a post above, you asked very explicitly when he was considered a star prospect.

No, I wondered where. As in, now.

EDIT: My bad, I did ask when. I meant when in the NBA. I did not expect anyone to reach back to his college career, though, considering that he's been in the NBA since 2012 and getting major minutes as a starter for years.

What I stated was factual... and the purpose was to shed light on Eddie's personal bias (not factual, also seemed pretty inaccurate). So I'm refusing someone else, while also inadvertently (and unintentionally, as I don't recognize you by name) answering your question... and you reply with an insult?

What insult? You consider an "lol" insulting?

You read much more into it though, huh? Made it really lol-worthy for yourself? Enjoy.

Yes, referencing a player's irrelevantly-old hype made me chuckle. I didn't read into anything. I just read your post and processed your point. Was I not supposed to?

More importantly, I stated below (2nd paragraph, which you cut out, in poor form...)

It's poor form to isolate a point? Really? Was it poor form for you to set off that point in a separate paragraph, then? I think you're reaching for umbrage to take, dude.

exactly why I would deal for Barnes. I am an avid UNC fan, I've always loved Barnes, I actually do not think he's poised to make an all-star type leap in a new environment (like Boston), and yet I'd still trade for him. Imagine that? But, you missed the punch line with your 5-year-old-like selective attention. So... run along, read that, and then get back to me with more lollerskates, dude.

Look, man, I wasn't trying to insult you personally. And as far as I can tell, I didn't. Sure, I'd trade for Barnes, too...if the price were right. This thread is explicitly about trading Crowder for Barnes. That price is very wrong.  More importantly, the pricetag for him as a free agent would be wrong, too. I'm not saying he's worthless. He's just not worth Crowder. He's also not worth 20+ a year, not even under the new CBA. Or, rather, there's no evidence that he's worth that much...evidence from the last four years, anyway. Anyway, we might actually mostly agree...that's the punchline. The joke's on both of us, lol.

[Tr1boy]

I'll take Crowder and his 5 year bargain contract over Barnes and what will be a max or near max deal. Barnes doesn't have the handles to create and I've always seen him defer or not step up in big games dating back to UNC. I'd rather pay Crowder 3x less for marginally less potential production.

I'll take a shot at something greater. I'm not sure what you're remembering from his UNC days, but I recall his 40 pt, 8 rebound explosion against Clemson in the ACC tourney, back to back game winning 3s against VT and Florida State (within the same week), and more points in the NCAA tourney than any other UNC freshman.

That was five years ago, lol. It's as relevant now as what Marvin Williams did as a freshman. I'm getting a clearer picture of the reasons why people are still so high on Barnes, though. The fact that he was the top prospect of his high school class six years ago, the fact that he was a precocious freshman for a prestigious college program five years ago, and the fact that he was a lottery pick four years ago. All facts that are completely irrelevant now. Old hype dies hard, I guess.

First, in a post above, you asked very explicitly when he was considered a star prospect.

No, I wondered where. As in, now.

What I stated was factual... and the purpose was to shed light on Eddie's personal bias (not factual, also seemed pretty inaccurate). So I'm refusing someone else, while also inadvertently (and unintentionally, as I don't recognize you by name) answering your question... and you reply with an insult?

What insult? You consider an "lol" insulting?

You read much more into it though, huh? Made it really lol-worthy for yourself? Enjoy.

Yes, referencing a player's irrelevantly-old hype made me chuckle. I didn't read into anything. I just read your post and processed your point. Was I not supposed to?

More importantly, I stated below (2nd paragraph, which you cut out, in poor form...)

It's poor form to isolate a point? Really? Was it poor form for you to set off that point in a separate paragraph, then? I think you're reaching for umbrage to take, dude.

exactly why I would deal for Barnes. I am an avid UNC fan, I've always loved Barnes, I actually do not think he's poised to make an all-star type leap in a new environment (like Boston), and yet I'd still trade for him. Imagine that? But, you missed the punch line with your 5-year-old-like selective attention. So... run along, read that, and then get back to me with more lollerskates, dude.

Look, man, I wasn't trying to insult you personally. And as far as I can tell, I didn't. Sure, I'd trade for Barnes, too...if the price were right. This thread is explicitly about trading Crowder for Barnes. That price is very wrong.  More importantly, the pricetag for him as a free agent would be wrong, too. I'm not saying he's worthless. He's just not worth Crowder. He's also not worth 20+ a year, not even under the new CBA. Or, rather, there's no evidence that he's worth that much...evidence from the last four years, anyway. Anyway, we might actually mostly agree...that's the punchline. The joke's on both of us, lol.

like the trade proposal I made the other day, if we can trade for Barnes without giving up Crowder that would be even better. (but also consider that if we get Barnes, Crowders min will dip no doubt)

Also GSW is not a dumb org. I can totally buy that for Barnes they would need at least Crowder back.

Someone that won't disturb what is going on over there, actually add another fiesty versatile defender

Lets see what unfolds in the next few days.

[Eddie20]

I'll take Crowder and his 5 year bargain contract over Barnes and what will be a max or near max deal. Barnes doesn't have the handles to create and I've always seen him defer or not step up in big games dating back to UNC. I'd rather pay Crowder 3x less for marginally less potential production.

I'll take a shot at something greater. I'm not sure what you're remembering from his UNC days, but I recall his 40 pt, 8 rebound explosion against Clemson in the ACC tourney, back to back game winning 3s against VT and Florida State (within the same week), and more points in the NCAA tourney than any other UNC freshman.

If there's potential to tap, we may as well take a flier on it. He will give just as much as Crowder (if not in different ways) and an actual chance at finding a gem/go-to scorer. Last I recall, Ainge was a fantastic GM that has (a) made a lot of winning, smallish moves, (b) drafted some hits and misses, and (c) made his one major move (which coincided with Ray's acquisition) with an old friend. It remains to be seen if he can do it again without that supposed (IMO) advantage.

Uh....


http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/harrison-barnes-unc-hype-disappointment_n_1389918.html


Now that Harrison Barnes‘ sophomore season has ended and the inevitable backlash against the young man for his 20-61 (32.8%) shooting performance in the NCAA Tournament has commenced, it’s time to take a step back to determine what we can learn from the endless hype and hyperbole surrounding a player who has suffered an enormous amount of pressure since the moment when he Skyped Roy Williams from his Ames High School gym to commit to North Carolina.

Barnes was projected as an AP preseason first team All-American before he’d even played a game of college basketball, and after a strong close to a somewhat enigmatic freshman season that earned him an honorable mention nod, he was placed on the AP preseason first team again this year. With today’s announcement of the 15 players selected as 2012 AP All-Americans and his name again nowhere on the list, we have to wonder how so many people continue to get it so wrong with this kid? It’s one thing to drop from the preseason first team to honorable mention once, but twice in consecutive years? Either he’s got a Pixar-like public relations department on retainer, or he’s simply not as good right now as everyone seemed to think.

[chambers]

I love Barnes but he will cost $20 million a year and giving up Crowder for the right to pay him $20 million will be a very bitter pill to swallow.

I'm pretty sure I was the first one to come up with the Crowder for Barnes swap scenario last year, but it was mainly predicated around us getting Kevin Love as the next step.

As Crowder has continued to get better, and now that he's signed his new deal, there is no way I would want to give him up for Barnes. I think he can garner a much more valuable player coming back and given that Barnes is a restricted free agent (and the Warriors won't want to pay him when going for Durant), I don't think the reward is worth the sacrifice.

I'd still be happy to go after Barnes as a restricted free agent and pay him 18-20 million, just not use Crowder to get that privilege  to pay him.


Just remember that Danny absolutely loves, and always will love Harrison Barnes.

He tried to trade Pierce for Barnes and he tried to move up in the draft to grab him.

[Tr1boy]

I'll take Crowder and his 5 year bargain contract over Barnes and what will be a max or near max deal. Barnes doesn't have the handles to create and I've always seen him defer or not step up in big games dating back to UNC. I'd rather pay Crowder 3x less for marginally less potential production.

I'll take a shot at something greater. I'm not sure what you're remembering from his UNC days, but I recall his 40 pt, 8 rebound explosion against Clemson in the ACC tourney, back to back game winning 3s against VT and Florida State (within the same week), and more points in the NCAA tourney than any other UNC freshman.

If there's potential to tap, we may as well take a flier on it. He will give just as much as Crowder (if not in different ways) and an actual chance at finding a gem/go-to scorer. Last I recall, Ainge was a fantastic GM that has (a) made a lot of winning, smallish moves, (b) drafted some hits and misses, and (c) made his one major move (which coincided with Ray's acquisition) with an old friend. It remains to be seen if he can do it again without that supposed (IMO) advantage.

Uh....


http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/harrison-barnes-unc-hype-disappointment_n_1389918.html


Now that Harrison Barnes‘ sophomore season has ended and the inevitable backlash against the young man for his 20-61 (32.8%) shooting performance in the NCAA Tournament has commenced, it’s time to take a step back to determine what we can learn from the endless hype and hyperbole surrounding a player who has suffered an enormous amount of pressure since the moment when he Skyped Roy Williams from his Ames High School gym to commit to North Carolina.

Barnes was projected as an AP preseason first team All-American before he’d even played a game of college basketball, and after a strong close to a somewhat enigmatic freshman season that earned him an honorable mention nod, he was placed on the AP preseason first team again this year. With today’s announcement of the 15 players selected as 2012 AP All-Americans and his name again nowhere on the list, we have to wonder how so many people continue to get it so wrong with this kid? It’s one thing to drop from the preseason first team to honorable mention once, but twice in consecutive years? Either he’s got a Pixar-like public relations department on retainer, or he’s simply not as good right now as everyone seemed to think.

You are a strange fellow lol

Whatever the case is, where is the honesty in all of this??

He wasn't dominant in college (not everyone is) but still had some big games in big moments.   First few years in the NBA didn't put it all together (umm most rookies go through this) and last season finally "got it".  Add some hero like performances in the playoffs

[Eddie20]

I'll take Crowder and his 5 year bargain contract over Barnes and what will be a max or near max deal. Barnes doesn't have the handles to create and I've always seen him defer or not step up in big games dating back to UNC. I'd rather pay Crowder 3x less for marginally less potential production.

I'll take a shot at something greater. I'm not sure what you're remembering from his UNC days, but I recall his 40 pt, 8 rebound explosion against Clemson in the ACC tourney, back to back game winning 3s against VT and Florida State (within the same week), and more points in the NCAA tourney than any other UNC freshman.

If there's potential to tap, we may as well take a flier on it. He will give just as much as Crowder (if not in different ways) and an actual chance at finding a gem/go-to scorer. Last I recall, Ainge was a fantastic GM that has (a) made a lot of winning, smallish moves, (b) drafted some hits and misses, and (c) made his one major move (which coincided with Ray's acquisition) with an old friend. It remains to be seen if he can do it again without that supposed (IMO) advantage.

Uh....


http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/harrison-barnes-unc-hype-disappointment_n_1389918.html


Now that Harrison Barnes‘ sophomore season has ended and the inevitable backlash against the young man for his 20-61 (32.8%) shooting performance in the NCAA Tournament has commenced, it’s time to take a step back to determine what we can learn from the endless hype and hyperbole surrounding a player who has suffered an enormous amount of pressure since the moment when he Skyped Roy Williams from his Ames High School gym to commit to North Carolina.

Barnes was projected as an AP preseason first team All-American before he’d even played a game of college basketball, and after a strong close to a somewhat enigmatic freshman season that earned him an honorable mention nod, he was placed on the AP preseason first team again this year. With today’s announcement of the 15 players selected as 2012 AP All-Americans and his name again nowhere on the list, we have to wonder how so many people continue to get it so wrong with this kid? It’s one thing to drop from the preseason first team to honorable mention once, but twice in consecutive years? Either he’s got a Pixar-like public relations department on retainer, or he’s simply not as good right now as everyone seemed to think.

You are a strange fellow lol

Whatever the case is, where is the honesty in all of this??

He wasn't dominant in college (not everyone is) but still had some big games in big moments.   First few years in the NBA didn't put it all together (umm most rookies go through this) and last season finally "got it".  Add some hero like performances in the playoffs

You seem confused. Read what i was responding to.

Barnes struggled in key moments when he was "the man". Did he hit a couple of big shots? Sure, but so did Jeff Green and I don't think anyone considers him a clutch performer. The only evidence we have, regardless of whether it was in college or not, has been of him failing to rise to the moment. Could that change? Maybe, but I'm not sure based on past history and his skillset. Hes the kind of guy that doesn't really excel in one area. Sort of the (average) Jack of all trades. He's a below average ball handler and passer and only an average shooter. He's a verygood athlete, but not a great one. In fact, his lateral foot speed isn't the greatest and seems to do much better using his strength (this along with his versatility our his greatest virtues) to defend 4's. He's also very inconsistent and can completely disappear for an entire quarter, half, or even game.

I'll take Crowder and his contract any day over Barnes and his soon to be one. It's not really close either.

[TwinTower14]

Here is a good article from Zach Lowe on Barnes: 

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/harrison-barnes-2016-extension-free-agent/

[CFAN38]

I really dont have time to read through 7 pages of post but my position on a Crowder for Barnes swap is a simple NO.

Crowders amazing contract brings alot of value to this team outside of his 14pts 5rb 1.8stl per game and 35% from 3 on 5 attempts. He is showing leadership and the ability to step up night in and night out and guard elite wings at the pre prime age of 25. Barnes is a nice player but to assume he is going to make a Harden like jump when out of the Curry/ Thompson spot light is a dangerous gamble. Let not forget that Jeff Green was a 15ppg play at 24 playing along side Westbrook and Durant. DA made the logical assumption that Green would progress when placed in a more predominant role in the offense. I personally think Greens problem and one that may also affect Barnes is the inability to create for them selves. Elite wings like George and Butler have developed the ability to create space for themselves and despite being 6'7-6'9 they can be the primary ball handler in the pick and role. Im not sure that Barnes will take that step and for the $$ involved I love Crowder and want him as a career C. 

[Tr1boy]

I'll take Crowder and his 5 year bargain contract over Barnes and what will be a max or near max deal. Barnes doesn't have the handles to create and I've always seen him defer or not step up in big games dating back to UNC. I'd rather pay Crowder 3x less for marginally less potential production.

I'll take a shot at something greater. I'm not sure what you're remembering from his UNC days, but I recall his 40 pt, 8 rebound explosion against Clemson in the ACC tourney, back to back game winning 3s against VT and Florida State (within the same week), and more points in the NCAA tourney than any other UNC freshman.

If there's potential to tap, we may as well take a flier on it. He will give just as much as Crowder (if not in different ways) and an actual chance at finding a gem/go-to scorer. Last I recall, Ainge was a fantastic GM that has (a) made a lot of winning, smallish moves, (b) drafted some hits and misses, and (c) made his one major move (which coincided with Ray's acquisition) with an old friend. It remains to be seen if he can do it again without that supposed (IMO) advantage.

Uh....


http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/harrison-barnes-unc-hype-disappointment_n_1389918.html


Now that Harrison Barnes‘ sophomore season has ended and the inevitable backlash against the young man for his 20-61 (32.8%) shooting performance in the NCAA Tournament has commenced, it’s time to take a step back to determine what we can learn from the endless hype and hyperbole surrounding a player who has suffered an enormous amount of pressure since the moment when he Skyped Roy Williams from his Ames High School gym to commit to North Carolina.

Barnes was projected as an AP preseason first team All-American before he’d even played a game of college basketball, and after a strong close to a somewhat enigmatic freshman season that earned him an honorable mention nod, he was placed on the AP preseason first team again this year. With today’s announcement of the 15 players selected as 2012 AP All-Americans and his name again nowhere on the list, we have to wonder how so many people continue to get it so wrong with this kid? It’s one thing to drop from the preseason first team to honorable mention once, but twice in consecutive years? Either he’s got a Pixar-like public relations department on retainer, or he’s simply not as good right now as everyone seemed to think.

You are a strange fellow lol

Whatever the case is, where is the honesty in all of this??

He wasn't dominant in college (not everyone is) but still had some big games in big moments.   First few years in the NBA didn't put it all together (umm most rookies go through this) and last season finally "got it".  Add some hero like performances in the playoffs

You seem confused. Read what i was responding to.

Barnes struggled in key moments when he was "the man". Did he hit a couple of big shots? Sure, but so did Jeff Green and I don't think anyone considers him a clutch performer. The only evidence we have, regardless of whether it was in college or not, has been of him failing to rise to the moment. Could that change? Maybe, but I'm not sure based on past history and his skillset. Hes the kind of guy that doesn't really excel in one area. Sort of the (average) Jack of all trades. He's a below average ball handler and passer and only an average shooter. He's a verygood athlete, but not a great one. In fact, his lateral foot speed isn't the greatest and seems to do much better using his strength (this along with his versatility our his greatest virtues) to defend 4's. He's also very inconsistent and can completely disappear for an entire quarter, half, or even game.

I'll take Crowder and his contract any day over Barnes and his soon to be one. It's not really close either.

[kozlodoev]

Sure. Also watch out whether the moon is made of Swiss cheese. Poor old A. Sherrod. Folks feed him all sorts of garbage, and he presents it with impunity.