Celtics & Rockets discussing Howard trade

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

Here, I figured out the real reason Howard is being talked about 

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=hj3knob

Horford, Korver, Mack to Boston

Howard, Deckker, Philly 2016 2nd to Atlanta

Sullinger, Rozier, Dallas 2016 1st to Huston

Lee, Cleveland 2016 2nd to Portland

Send the planes.

[Csfan1984]

Here, I figured out the real reason Howard is being talked about 

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=hj3knob

Horford, Korver, Mack to Boston

Howard, Deckker, Philly 2016 2nd to Atlanta

Sullinger, Rozier, Dallas 2016 1st to Huston

Lee, Cleveland 2016 2nd to Portland

I don't think it will happen but man Lee needs to be shipped there if C's have no need for him as a contract filler. It gives team a trade exception for a year if no FA comes.

[JOMVP]

Im all in on Howard depending on the trade cost. I wouldnt let them touch any of Smart, Crowder, IT, Bradley, Olynyk.. but everyone else is fair game. I also wouldnt inckude this years Brooklyn pick or next years swap, but I'd probably be willing to do the 2018 pick because I think Brooklyn should improve by that point.

Lee, Sullinger, Celtics first this year, 2018 Brooklyn pick.

Doesnt really fix our shooting issues though. We desperately need a knock down shooter.

[hpantazo]

If true, it's a reasonable risk by Ainge. Acquiring Howard or Horford now, making a good playoff run with whichever one we acquire, and keeping them this summer would go a long way, together with IT as an all-star and CBS, to attracting a third star to sign with us this summer.

[GryphMinuteMan]

Howard to Atlanta does makes sense considering he's from there.

[LarBrd33]

One of my least favorite players in the league, but I have to admit that getting him would improve this team. 

[Vermont Green]

And that's really the problem. We won't give any significant trade assets to them for what will be a rental til June and they would rather take a shot at resigning him than get peanuts in return. So it won't happen.

Disagree. I think Ainge is totally open to trading the Dallas pick, the Philly pick, etc. And those are pretty good assets for a guy who is expiring on a team headed for a first round exit.

If we traded for Howard, then we would be the team with the expiring malcontent and a first round exit.  This argument could go either way.  If they are pretty good assets, why don't we keep them?

I don't see much value in a Howard rental.

[ssspence]

And that's really the problem. We won't give any significant trade assets to them for what will be a rental til June and they would rather take a shot at resigning him than get peanuts in return. So it won't happen.

Disagree. I think Ainge is totally open to trading the Dallas pick, the Philly pick, etc. And those are pretty good assets for a guy who is expiring on a team headed for a first round exit.

If we traded for Howard, then we would be the team with the expiring malcontent and a first round exit.  This argument could go either way.  If they are pretty good assets, why don't we keep them?

I don't see much value in a Howard rental.

This stuff is totally overblown. Howard makes the Celtics better. All the Good Guys in the world is nice, but at some point you need a talent upgrade.

[Dino Pitino]

If we traded for Howard, then we would be the team with the expiring malcontent and a first round exit.  This argument could go either way.  If they are pretty good assets, why don't we keep them?

Houston is a bottom five defense. That's a huge part of why they're doomed in the playoffs. Howard's D Rating is 4 points better than the team's. The Celtics are a top two defense, and their weaknesses on D happen to be exactly what Howard excels at, interior defense and defensive rebounding. If he were to improve the Celtics' D Rating by 4 points, then we'd be practically equal to San Antonio. That ain't 1st-round-exit material. That's ECF material.

Two mid-late 1sts are pretty good assets for a team looking to get back something for an expiring Howard. Two mid-late 1sts are excessive assets for a team that already has a surplus of picks and a surplus of mid-late 1st talent at the bottom of the roster.

The argument does NOT go either way.
The contexts are very different.

[ssspence]

If we traded for Howard, then we would be the team with the expiring malcontent and a first round exit.  This argument could go either way.  If they are pretty good assets, why don't we keep them?

Houston is a bottom five defense. That's a huge part of why they're doomed in the playoffs. Howard's D Rating is 4 points better than the team's. The Celtics are a top two defense, and their weaknesses on D happen to be exactly what Howard excels at, interior defense and defensive rebounding. If he were to improve the Celtics' D Rating by 4 points, then we'd be practically equal to San Antonio. That ain't 1st-round-exit material. That's ECF material.

Two mid-late 1sts are pretty good assets for a team looking to get back something for an expiring Howard. Two mid-late 1sts are excessive assets for a team that already has a surplus of picks and a surplus of mid-late 1st talent at the bottom of the roster.

The argument does NOT go either way.
The contexts are very different.

Word

[PhoSita]

Howard would help the Celts on defense, but would he help on offense?  At this point he's not a guy you can expect to create points for himself more than a handful of times a game.  The lack of spacing and awful free throw shooting might almost cancel out the defensive improvement he'd bring.

Maybe the improvement on the boards would be enough that it would be a net positive.  Still, I can imagine long stretches of bricks.  Isaiah, Smart, Thomas, or Crowder trying to create and having trouble because there's no space to attack the basket with Howard hanging out down low and the defense sagging.

[Future Celtics Owner]

If we traded for Howard, then we would be the team with the expiring malcontent and a first round exit.  This argument could go either way.  If they are pretty good assets, why don't we keep them?

Houston is a bottom five defense. That's a huge part of why they're doomed in the playoffs. Howard's D Rating is 4 points better than the team's. The Celtics are a top two defense, and their weaknesses on D happen to be exactly what Howard excels at, interior defense and defensive rebounding. If he were to improve the Celtics' D Rating by 4 points, then we'd be practically equal to San Antonio. That ain't 1st-round-exit material. That's ECF material.

Two mid-late 1sts are pretty good assets for a team looking to get back something for an expiring Howard. Two mid-late 1sts are excessive assets for a team that already has a surplus of picks and a surplus of mid-late 1st talent at the bottom of the roster.

The argument does NOT go either way.
The contexts are very different.

I agree. But then you are dealing with DH and history says he is the worst to deal with. We would have options and even keeping him and overpaying could turn out good if he stays healthy....especially/mostly for the playoffs.

I get the Cavs don't have a DH and that gives us a huge advantage. If we get DH I don't want to hear anything about a second or ECF appearance......we are in championship mode plain and simple.

[rondohondo]

Howard would help the Celts on defense, but would he help on offense?  At this point he's not a guy you can expect to create points for himself more than a handful of times a game.  The lack of spacing and awful free throw shooting might almost cancel out the defensive improvement he'd bring.

Maybe the improvement on the boards would be enough that it would be a net positive.  Still, I can imagine long stretches of bricks.  Isaiah, Smart, Thomas, or Crowder trying to create and having trouble because there's no space to attack the basket with Howard hanging out down low and the defense sagging.

If you have Isiah and KO on the floor , I don't think scoring would be a problem . IT/Howard pick n roll would be great . Then you have KO on the floor who is a top 3pt shooting big man with the ability to pump fake and drive , he could find Dwight on 3-5 buckets a game .

Dwight provides the rim protection with 2 all-defensive type defenders taking care of the perimeter .

I really think he would fit in very nice here .

Just dont trade Smart, KO, Crowder, It or 2016 Brk pick for him

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

Howard would help the Celts on defense, but would he help on offense?  At this point he's not a guy you can expect to create points for himself more than a handful of times a game.  The lack of spacing and awful free throw shooting might almost cancel out the defensive improvement he'd bring.

Maybe the improvement on the boards would be enough that it would be a net positive.  Still, I can imagine long stretches of bricks.  Isaiah, Smart, Thomas, or Crowder trying to create and having trouble because there's no space to attack the basket with Howard hanging out down low and the defense sagging.

Who stops the DH/IT4 pnr? Howard would also get a lot of bigs/ players into foul trouble, they would be afraid to get near IT4 and if your not in his way he is going to slice your guts. Now, spacing will be left to CBS but it's not as if Sully/Amir have done any of that this year anyway.

[Ilikesports17]

Howard would help the Celts on defense, but would he help on offense?  At this point he's not a guy you can expect to create points for himself more than a handful of times a game.  The lack of spacing and awful free throw shooting might almost cancel out the defensive improvement he'd bring.

Maybe the improvement on the boards would be enough that it would be a net positive.  Still, I can imagine long stretches of bricks.  Isaiah, Smart, Thomas, or Crowder trying to create and having trouble because there's no space to attack the basket with Howard hanging out down low and the defense sagging.

If you have Isiah and KO on the floor , I don't think scoring would be a problem . IT/Howard pick n roll would be great . Then you have KO on the floor who is a top 3pt shooting big man with the ability to pump fake and drive , he could find Dwight on 3-5 buckets a game .

I really think he would fit in very nice here .

Just dont trade Smart, KO, Crowder, It or 2016 Brk pick for him

Id add AB to that list.

I dont think spacing would be too much of an issue. I mean IT AB Crowder and KO are all capable 3 pt shooters. The problem is that you probably wouldnt be able to put the Turner-Smart lineup out there with Howard