Think about this: Non-guaranteed contracts of AJ and JJ work for Love

[jpotter33]

So we have $17M worth of non-guaranteed contracts this summer in AJ and JJ. I really don't think it's a coincidence that he has right around that much in flexible money, because trading those two for Love works in the trade machine.

So what are the chances that Danny had the foresight to see Love possibly being the scapegoat for Cleveland not winning this year, which looks bleak at the moment, and insisted on having these non-guaranteed contracts just in case Cleveland wants to try another star instead of Love?

[slamtheking]

Cleveland gave up 2 #1's + for him (doesn't matter that one of them was Bennett).  no way Cleveland settles for Amir and JJ for Love. 

[jpotter33]

Cleveland gave up 2 #1's + for him (doesn't matter that one of them was Bennett).  no way Cleveland settles for Amir and JJ for Love.

Picks would have to be involved, but they'd want to keep the salary as minimal as possible, meaning AJ, JJ, and picks for him.

[chambers]

You are absolutely correct regarding Love being a scapegoat this summer.
I don't think they were signed specifically to trade for Love, but I think those Amir and Jonas contracts were signed to be easily package-able pieces in a trade for a star, and Love is the most likely star that we'll have a shot at.

When the Cavs likely lose to SAS or GSW in the finals, Lebron will be looking for a scapegoat and a better defender at starting power forward.

Over at RealGM I saw a discussion on the Mavs board where a Celtics fan had asked if something like:
2018 Brooklyn pick
2017 Celtics 1st round pick
Olynyk
Amir

for Love

would potentially work in the offseason, and they seemed to think it was decent value.

I think they'd basically demand Avery Bradley+Amir and a pick. And we'd probably have to say yes- although Danny would probably try and send out something else other than Amir- because we'll need him next to Love on defense.

The great thing about any Love trade is that because of his 'mis fit' in Cleveland, he'll be attainable for a value trade.
The guy is still easily a #1 or #2 option, they just have no one feeding him in the post and Kyrie just doesn't look for him. It's only going to get worse for Love in CLE now that Kyrie is back and wanting to get his own stats.

I think this draft night could be very interesting for us.
Would be pretty sweet if we ended up getting lucky with the Brooklyn pick and got Ingram, Bender or Kris Dunn (or binked Simmons) and then somehow pried Love away with a nice package of picks+role players.

[slamtheking]

You are absolutely correct regarding Love being a scapegoat this summer.
I don't think they were signed specifically to trade for Love, but I think those Amir and Jonas contracts were signed to be easily package-able pieces in a trade for a star, and Love is the most likely star that we'll have a shot at.

When the Cavs likely lose to SAS or GSW in the finals, Lebron will be looking for a scapegoat and a better defender at starting power forward.

Over at RealGM I saw a discussion on the Mavs board where a Celtics fan had asked if something like:
2018 Brooklyn pick
2017 Celtics 1st round pick
Olynyk
Amir

for Love

would potentially work in the offseason, and they seemed to think it was decent value.

The great thing about any Love trade is that because of his 'mis fit' in Cleveland, he'll be attainable for a value trade.
The guy is still easily a #1 or #2 option, they just have no one feeding him in the post and Kyrie just doesn't look for him. It's only going to get worse for Love in CLE now that Kyrie is back and wanting to get his own stats.

I think this draft night could be very interesting for us.
Would be pretty sweet if we ended up getting lucky with the Brooklyn pick and got Ingram, Bender or Kris Dunn (or binked Simmons) and then somehow pried Love away with a nice package of picks+role players.

of course they'd think it was fair value -- 2 Nets picks + for Love?  I'm holding those Nets picks if the option is Love.  Certainly wouldn't cough up 2 of them for him

[slamtheking]

Cleveland gave up 2 #1's + for him (doesn't matter that one of them was Bennett).  no way Cleveland settles for Amir and JJ for Love.

Picks would have to be involved, but they'd want to keep the salary as minimal as possible, meaning AJ, JJ, and picks for him.

depends on the picks.  not giving up any Nets picks -- definitely not this year's or the swap next year

[jpotter33]

Cleveland gave up 2 #1's + for him (doesn't matter that one of them was Bennett).  no way Cleveland settles for Amir and JJ for Love.

Picks would have to be involved, but they'd want to keep the salary as minimal as possible, meaning AJ, JJ, and picks for him.

depends on the picks.  not giving up any Nets picks -- definitely not this year's or the swap next year

Dallas pick + 2018 Nets pick? I already fear that they'll spend their way to respectability by then.

[jpotter33]

You are absolutely correct regarding Love being a scapegoat this summer.
I don't think they were signed specifically to trade for Love, but I think those Amir and Jonas contracts were signed to be easily package-able pieces in a trade for a star, and Love is the most likely star that we'll have a shot at.

When the Cavs likely lose to SAS or GSW in the finals, Lebron will be looking for a scapegoat and a better defender at starting power forward.

Over at RealGM I saw a discussion on the Mavs board where a Celtics fan had asked if something like:
2018 Brooklyn pick
2017 Celtics 1st round pick
Olynyk
Amir

for Love

would potentially work in the offseason, and they seemed to think it was decent value.

I think they'd basically demand Avery Bradley+Amir and a pick. And we'd probably have to say yes- although Danny would probably try and send out something else other than Amir- because we'll need him next to Love on defense.

The great thing about any Love trade is that because of his 'mis fit' in Cleveland, he'll be attainable for a value trade.
The guy is still easily a #1 or #2 option, they just have no one feeding him in the post and Kyrie just doesn't look for him. It's only going to get worse for Love in CLE now that Kyrie is back and wanting to get his own stats.

I think this draft night could be very interesting for us.
Would be pretty sweet if we ended up getting lucky with the Brooklyn pick and got Ingram, Bender or Kris Dunn (or binked Simmons) and then somehow pried Love away with a nice package of picks+role players.

That's interesting. My whole thinking was they'd want the cap space to sign a free agent (possibly Durant, which would be just horrible). The thing is they already have Shumpert, who is Bradley-lite but with better size. I agree Bradley is an excellent fit next to Kyrie, but I wonder if they want him with Shumpert already.

[pearljammer10]

I mean I'm sure there are 20-30 other players whom we could also get for those two combined contracts that would make a significant difference as well.

Its more of a Danny is amazingly smart thing than a Love coincidence in my eyes.

[crimson_stallion]

Love?  Seriously?

The guy is has been no better than Sully for the past two seasons.  Why in god's name would you want to get him on that horrible contract.

I'm going to pass on that in a massive way.

[crimson_stallion]

You are absolutely correct regarding Love being a scapegoat this summer.
I don't think they were signed specifically to trade for Love, but I think those Amir and Jonas contracts were signed to be easily package-able pieces in a trade for a star, and Love is the most likely star that we'll have a shot at.

When the Cavs likely lose to SAS or GSW in the finals, Lebron will be looking for a scapegoat and a better defender at starting power forward.

Over at RealGM I saw a discussion on the Mavs board where a Celtics fan had asked if something like:
2018 Brooklyn pick
2017 Celtics 1st round pick
Olynyk
Amir

for Love

would potentially work in the offseason, and they seemed to think it was decent value.

I think they'd basically demand Avery Bradley+Amir and a pick. And we'd probably have to say yes- although Danny would probably try and send out something else other than Amir- because we'll need him next to Love on defense.

The great thing about any Love trade is that because of his 'mis fit' in Cleveland, he'll be attainable for a value trade.
The guy is still easily a #1 or #2 option, they just have no one feeding him in the post and Kyrie just doesn't look for him. It's only going to get worse for Love in CLE now that Kyrie is back and wanting to get his own stats.

I think this draft night could be very interesting for us.
Would be pretty sweet if we ended up getting lucky with the Brooklyn pick and got Ingram, Bender or Kris Dunn (or binked Simmons) and then somehow pried Love away with a nice package of picks+role players.

I'd rather have Amir and Olynyk than Love - and I'm not even remotely kidding.

Both of those guys are huge impact players on good contracts.  Love is overrated and is on a turd of a contract.  May as well re-sign Sully if you want Love, he's basically the same player minus a three point shot.

[pearljammer10]

Love?  Seriously?

The guy is has been no better than Sully for the past two seasons.  Why in god's name would you want to get him on that horrible contract.

I'm going to pass on that in a massive way.

Heh. Chuckle.

[jpotter33]

Love?  Seriously?

The guy is has been no better than Sully for the past two seasons.  Why in god's name would you want to get him on that horrible contract.

I'm going to pass on that in a massive way.

Love 2015-2016: 15.9, 10.8, .9 stls, .6 blcks, 19.46 PER

Sully 2015-2016: 9.8, 8.7, .8 stls, .7 blcks, 16.29 PER

And you can't look at minutes as a factor, because Sully's lardass can't play for more minutes. Also, Love is putting up those numbers under two All-Star offensive players. It's not even close. He could legitimately come here and easily put up 27 points a game with 10+ rebounds.

[crimson_stallion]

Love?  Seriously?

The guy is has been no better than Sully for the past two seasons.  Why in god's name would you want to get him on that horrible contract.

I'm going to pass on that in a massive way.

Heh. Chuckle.

Why the chuckle?

Last Year
Love averaged 17.5 points, 10.4 rebounds, 2.4 assists, 0.7 steal and 0.6 blocks Per 36 while shooting 43% / 37% / 80%.

Sully averaged 17.7 points, 10.1 rebounds, 3.1 assists, 1.0 steals, 1.0 block Per 36 and shot 44% / 28% / 74%.


This year
Love has averaged 17.6 points, 11.9 rebounds, 2.7 assists, 1 steal and 0.6 blocks Per 36 while shooting 41% / 36% / 80%.

Sully has averaged 14.7 points, 13 rebounds, 3.2 assists, 1.2 steals, 1 block Per 36 and has shot 43% / 28% / 61%.

Sully is 23 years old and will likely be lucky to get $15M this offseason.  Love is 27 years old and is making approx $20M a year every year until 5 years (until he turns 32). Love has had significantly more injury problems than Love, and Sully is a significantly better defensive player.

Personally I wouldn't want to extend Sully OR trade for Love because I don't like either guy's game...but I'd rather extend Sully for $45M/3 than trade for Love at $100M/5 any day of the week, and twice on Sunday.

Love's production over the past two seasons in Cleveland has clearly proven what was obvious all along - that his overblown stats in Minnesota were purely a result of a guy who takes a LOT of shots on a really bad team. 

You can't even use the "#3 option" argument anymore, since Kyrie has been out of the lineup for almost the entire season so far (and even Lebron has missed some significant time) and Love is still putting up utterly mediocre numbers.

If Love was on a $15M a year for the next three years then sure, I'd consider that.  But he's already a shadow of the guy he was three or four years ago and he's only 27.  By the time he reaches 31-32 years of age (in the final years of the deal) that contract is going to look utterly terrible.  Especially since the deal is long enough to potentially outlast the "salary cap spike".

Love is a nice player, but he's not the kind of guy who would to take this team to another level.  He's an ageing complimentary piece, and we need either a centerpiece, or a young prospect with the potential to become a centerpiece.  Love is (IMHO) neither.  A modest upgrade over Sully, but that's about it. 

 

[jpotter33]

Love?  Seriously?

The guy is has been no better than Sully for the past two seasons.  Why in god's name would you want to get him on that horrible contract.

I'm going to pass on that in a massive way.

Heh. Chuckle.

Why the chuckle?

Last Year
Love averaged 17.5 points, 10.4 rebounds, 2.4 assists, 0.7 steal and 0.6 blocks Per 36 while shooting 43% / 37% / 80%.

Sully averaged 17.7 points, 10.1 rebounds, 3.1 assists, 1.0 steals, 1.0 block Per 36 and shot 44% / 28% / 74%.


This year
Love has averaged 17.6 points, 11.9 rebounds, 2.7 assists, 1 steal and 0.6 blocks Per 36 while shooting 41% / 36% / 80%.

Sully has averaged 14.7 points, 13 rebounds, 3.2 assists, 1.2 steals, 1 block Per 36 and has shot 43% / 28% / 61%.

Sully is 23 years old and will likely be lucky to get $15M this offseason.  Love is 27 years old and is making approx $20M a year every year until 5 years (until he turns 32). Love has had significantly more injury problems than Love, and Sully is a significantly better defensive player.

Personally I wouldn't want to extend Sully OR trade for Love because I don't like either guy's game...but I'd rather extend Sully for $45M/3 than trade for Love at $100M/5 any day of the week, and twice on Sunday.

Love's production over the past two seasons in Cleveland has clearly proven what was obvious all along - that his overblown stats in Minnesota were purely a result of a guy who takes a LOT of shots on a really bad team. 

You can't even use the "#3 option" argument anymore, since Kyrie has been out of the lineup for almost the entire season so far (and even Lebron has missed some significant time) and Love is still putting up utterly mediocre numbers.

If Love was on a $15M a year for the next three years then sure, I'd consider that.  But he's already a shadow of the guy he was three or four years ago and he's only 27.  By the time he reaches 31-32 years of age (in the final years of the deal) that contract is going to look utterly terrible.  Especially since the deal is long enough to potentially outlast the "salary cap spike".

Love is a nice player, but he's not the kind of guy who would to take this team to another level.  He's an ageing complimentary piece, and we need either a centerpiece, or a young prospect with the potential to become a centerpiece.  Love is (IMHO) neither.  A modest upgrade over Sully, but that's about it.

Sully can't effectively play 36 minutes a night, so those numbers don't mean much. Further, Love is playing behind two offensive All-Stars, and he's shown he can put up 30 and 10 a night. Sully hasn't. Until he has, he's not even in the same conversation as Love.