Author Topic: We Need to Make Some Moves!  (Read 9512 times)

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Re: We Need to Make Some Moves!
« Reply #45 on: January 03, 2016, 01:26:53 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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Think Warriors want to repeat more than anything and not worry about $ right now. They can easily afford luxury tax as back to back champions.

Re: We Need to Make Some Moves!
« Reply #46 on: January 03, 2016, 01:31:03 PM »

Offline mctyson

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The following are players & draft picks that I wouldn't mind seeing shipped off (for the right return):
Lee, Zeller, Sully, Jerebko, Boston 2016 1st, Dallas 2016 1st, Minnesota 2016 1st (will be two 2nds), Boston 2018 pick

Look at this list of dynamic stuff you are willing to 'deal' from a slightly-above .500 team that is 8th place in the East...

A 32 year-old PF in the last year of a huge contract who is a bench-player averaging 16 min/game
A 26 year-old C in the last year of a tiny deal who is a bench-player averaging 8 min/game and gets lots of DNPs
A 23 year-old F/C in the last year of a rookie deal who will be a restricted free agent, at 25 min/game, who has serious health question marks
A 28 year-old back-up F in the last year of a mid-size deal who plays 13 min/game

2 later 1st-round picks in 2016, 2 likely 2nd round picks in 2016, and a likely later 1st rounder in 2018

No way we are getting anything close to All-Star talent for this stuff.

Re: We Need to Make Some Moves!
« Reply #47 on: January 03, 2016, 06:14:31 PM »

Offline jmen788

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The following are players & draft picks that I wouldn't mind seeing shipped off (for the right return):
Lee, Zeller, Sully, Jerebko, Boston 2016 1st, Dallas 2016 1st, Minnesota 2016 1st (will be two 2nds), Boston 2018 pick

Look at this list of dynamic stuff you are willing to 'deal' from a slightly-above .500 team that is 8th place in the East...

A 32 year-old PF in the last year of a huge contract who is a bench-player averaging 16 min/game
A 26 year-old C in the last year of a tiny deal who is a bench-player averaging 8 min/game and gets lots of DNPs
A 23 year-old F/C in the last year of a rookie deal who will be a restricted free agent, at 25 min/game, who has serious health question marks
A 28 year-old back-up F in the last year of a mid-size deal who plays 13 min/game

2 later 1st-round picks in 2016, 2 likely 2nd round picks in 2016, and a likely later 1st rounder in 2018

No way we are getting anything close to All-Star talent for this stuff.

Really? We got Isiah Thomas, a borderline All Star, for a Cavs first rounder that will be pick 25-30.

Sometimes I wonder if some people are even watching the games and truly following the team...

Re: We Need to Make Some Moves!
« Reply #48 on: January 03, 2016, 09:34:18 PM »

Offline chambers

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I wonder if all the people trashing getting Evans or Gallo trashed getting IT last year as he isn't a "superstar." But he's still very good and better than anything else we have.

Right now it seems like we are building a team like the Hawks last year - no superstar but a great a around team - at least until a star becomes available.

I personally would rather add Evans or Gallo which would greatly make our team better.

That's the point though. You want to add guys who make us more like the Hawks, and tie up cap room with medicore guys that are never going to be stars.

You can't compare IT to Gallo or Tyreke because of his awesome salary. Would anyone want IT if he were being paid $15 million a year or 18 million a year? Hell no. He's a bargain. Tyreke and Gallo are not. They're good, but not great players, and we are overloaded at every position with guys like this right now.

I agree with the IT salary part. That was the icing on top. We also have Crowder and Bradley at team-friendly deals. But we gotta keep in mind the cap is rising and we don't want to be like the 76ers and not be spending money. This doesn't mean to spend it terribly either. BUT I think Evans is worth the money and so is Gallo - based on the new salary cap. Even with one of them we would still have money to add two max players.

Well it's a difference of opinion then. I understand your frustration, I feel it too. We need some boss's on this team. Some leaders of an All Star caliber.
To be honest, the only realistic targets that will realistically be available soon, will be:

Harrison Barnes
DeRozan
Dwight Howard

Barnes is my favorite of all three of them. He can switch with Crowder in the 3/4 small ball line up and is 23 years old. He needs a bigger role and his shooting will help our stretch offense.
Derozan does what Barnes doesn't, and vice versa. He gets to the hole and free throw line, while Barnes is only starting to add this to his game. We are bottom 10 in the NBA in efficiency. Derozan's 8-9 free throws a game would really help us move into the top 10-12.

They are both efficient scorers, and while Derozan is a genuine 'closer', which is what we need, Barnes requires less usage to get his efficient points.

Howard is our best shot at a top 10 big man and he' missed a lot of time in Houston with that back injury. He'd be a massive upgrade over Amir Johnson on both ends though, and would only require about 10 million more per season.

But yeah, to answer your original topic question, I think Harrison Barnes will be our number one target. Danny Ainge loves him. He tried to trade for him twice, including when he he tried to trade Paul Pierce for Barnes. I think Ainge is going to throw the bottom level max at Barnes, which will be $21 million. It sounds huge but the cap is going to rise to $107 million by 2017-18 so he'd be less than the 20% of the total cap with room for 2 more max guys.
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: We Need to Make Some Moves!
« Reply #49 on: January 04, 2016, 04:22:40 AM »

Offline jmen788

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I wonder if all the people trashing getting Evans or Gallo trashed getting IT last year as he isn't a "superstar." But he's still very good and better than anything else we have.

Right now it seems like we are building a team like the Hawks last year - no superstar but a great a around team - at least until a star becomes available.

I personally would rather add Evans or Gallo which would greatly make our team better.

That's the point though. You want to add guys who make us more like the Hawks, and tie up cap room with medicore guys that are never going to be stars.

You can't compare IT to Gallo or Tyreke because of his awesome salary. Would anyone want IT if he were being paid $15 million a year or 18 million a year? Hell no. He's a bargain. Tyreke and Gallo are not. They're good, but not great players, and we are overloaded at every position with guys like this right now.

I agree with the IT salary part. That was the icing on top. We also have Crowder and Bradley at team-friendly deals. But we gotta keep in mind the cap is rising and we don't want to be like the 76ers and not be spending money. This doesn't mean to spend it terribly either. BUT I think Evans is worth the money and so is Gallo - based on the new salary cap. Even with one of them we would still have money to add two max players.

Well it's a difference of opinion then. I understand your frustration, I feel it too. We need some boss's on this team. Some leaders of an All Star caliber.
To be honest, the only realistic targets that will realistically be available soon, will be:

Harrison Barnes
DeRozan
Dwight Howard

Barnes is my favorite of all three of them. He can switch with Crowder in the 3/4 small ball line up and is 23 years old. He needs a bigger role and his shooting will help our stretch offense.
Derozan does what Barnes doesn't, and vice versa. He gets to the hole and free throw line, while Barnes is only starting to add this to his game. We are bottom 10 in the NBA in efficiency. Derozan's 8-9 free throws a game would really help us move into the top 10-12.

They are both efficient scorers, and while Derozan is a genuine 'closer', which is what we need, Barnes requires less usage to get his efficient points.

Howard is our best shot at a top 10 big man and he' missed a lot of time in Houston with that back injury. He'd be a massive upgrade over Amir Johnson on both ends though, and would only require about 10 million more per season.

But yeah, to answer your original topic question, I think Harrison Barnes will be our number one target. Danny Ainge loves him. He tried to trade for him twice, including when he he tried to trade Paul Pierce for Barnes. I think Ainge is going to throw the bottom level max at Barnes, which will be $21 million. It sounds huge but the cap is going to rise to $107 million by 2017-18 so he'd be less than the 20% of the total cap with room for 2 more max guys.

I would be THRILLED with Barnes. I don't think GSW will let him get away though....

Re: We Need to Make Some Moves!
« Reply #50 on: January 04, 2016, 09:06:17 AM »

Offline Future Celtics Owner

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Sorry but I don't want any of those players. This is what people fail to see in these micro trades. C's are a slightly above average team because they are loaded with role players. They aren't going to get better by trading for more role players. They need border line All stars brought in or even better a top 20 player if they want to actually get better. Don't waste assets or potential cap space on journey-men.

Tyreke Evans is averaging 15/7/6 and 17/5/5 for his career. Not really sure if that's a role player.

Gallo gets 15-20 per game, another second tier star.

Kevin Martin, at this point, I agree is a role player. BUT much better than a lot of the ones we have. In the NBA if you can trade two dimes and a nickel for a quarter, you do it EVERY time. Even if it is upgrading role players.
With the amount of shots and PT those guys have had its not saying much. They are role players. 4th or 5th options on a championship caliber team. We need better.

That all or nothing mindset applies to the draft via Brooklyn (we need a top pick or else we are kinda SOL) but it does NOT apply to trades and free agency.

No star will want to come here if there aren't appealing players that would surround them.

Further, this is a team that is rebuilding through incremental progress. We upgrade the players, and then later we can further upgrade them.

Lastly, Evans & Gallo would easily be the 2nd best players on our team, and would easily be good enough to be 3rd options on a title team.
cfan you get a tp.

Why is it so many posters pull out this card: "Well! (with hands on hips of course)no one will want to come here if we:
1)trade Rondo
2)Hurt Brad's feelings
3)clear some bench players so we can play/develop our young guys
4)we don't have a "winning culture"  (Um...we are the Boston Celtics...right?)
5: the young players won't develop unless its under our current "winning culture" (I call it treadmill)

Re: We Need to Make Some Moves!
« Reply #51 on: January 04, 2016, 06:21:42 PM »

Offline ForexPirate

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Still a month away before teams start looking to trade off players.

unless a team has a need like Clippers

Trade Sullinger to Doc for help at PF for ... wait for it ... Paul Pierce ... we need a mentor for all these kids and he is tied up for 3 year deal with clips at reasonable money.

Bring Pierce back.  He can shore up our sf position and be a mentor to the kids

Re: We Need to Make Some Moves!
« Reply #52 on: January 04, 2016, 06:25:33 PM »

Offline trickybilly

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Still a month away before teams start looking to trade off players.

unless a team has a need like Clippers

Trade Sullinger to Doc for help at PF for ... wait for it ... Paul Pierce ... we need a mentor for all these kids and he is tied up for 3 year deal with clips at reasonable money.

Bring Pierce back.  He can shore up our sf position and be a mentor to the kids

Not the stupidest deal, he brings shooting..
"Gimme the ball, gimme the ball". Freddy Quimby, 1994.

Re: We Need to Make Some Moves!
« Reply #53 on: January 04, 2016, 06:42:11 PM »

Offline mctyson

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The following are players & draft picks that I wouldn't mind seeing shipped off (for the right return):
Lee, Zeller, Sully, Jerebko, Boston 2016 1st, Dallas 2016 1st, Minnesota 2016 1st (will be two 2nds), Boston 2018 pick

Look at this list of dynamic stuff you are willing to 'deal' from a slightly-above .500 team that is 8th place in the East...

A 32 year-old PF in the last year of a huge contract who is a bench-player averaging 16 min/game
A 26 year-old C in the last year of a tiny deal who is a bench-player averaging 8 min/game and gets lots of DNPs
A 23 year-old F/C in the last year of a rookie deal who will be a restricted free agent, at 25 min/game, who has serious health question marks
A 28 year-old back-up F in the last year of a mid-size deal who plays 13 min/game

2 later 1st-round picks in 2016, 2 likely 2nd round picks in 2016, and a likely later 1st rounder in 2018

No way we are getting anything close to All-Star talent for this stuff.

Really? We got Isiah Thomas, a borderline All Star, for a Cavs first rounder that will be pick 25-30.

Sometimes I wonder if some people are even watching the games and truly following the team...

I've seen every game this year, most at home in person...I can tell you full stop that what you are offering will not get much more in value than we are giving away. 

You cannot compare the Thomas deal, that was essentially forced by the Dragic chaos.  If Dragic wanted to resign in Phoenix I am not sure IT ever wears Celtics green.

The best we get back with your idea is a solid 6th man/fringe starter for a Sullinger + Lee + 2 1st rounders package.  Does that make this team appreciably better?  If we traded that package for someone - say - like Amir Johnson...would you be doing cartwheels? 

Re: We Need to Make Some Moves!
« Reply #54 on: January 04, 2016, 06:49:37 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Yup.....I'm gonna say it

The Celtics have HIT a BRICK WALL ...in term of how far this group can go .

IT and AB and CBS can only take THiS group of Celtics so far up the ladder of success


They are at best a moderate playoff prospect . 


Smart , AB , IT and Crowder ....need serious STAR help to push on to the next level.

I'm sure Mickey , KO and Rozier will get better with more time.........

But IF the Celtics want to PUSH ON and challenge for that 1-3 spot in the EAST

We need a STAR or TWO to meet that goal.

All I have to say.

Re: We Need to Make Some Moves!
« Reply #55 on: January 04, 2016, 07:23:36 PM »

Offline Chris22

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Go Celtics.
Ainge has us on the right track.
Rome wasn't built in a day.

Re: We Need to Make Some Moves!
« Reply #56 on: January 04, 2016, 07:27:40 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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I think we should aim to acquire recently drafted high potential players who are in places where for some reason or another they have not been able to showcase their full talents and could look to be moved.

Jabari Parker Nerlens Noel Aaron Gordon Mario Hezonja Kelly Oubre Dario Saric are all guys id pick up the phone for.

I wouldn't expect any of these guys to be available but I think they are all worth a phone call

Re: We Need to Make Some Moves!
« Reply #57 on: January 04, 2016, 07:29:00 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I think we should aim to acquire recently drafted high potential players who are in places where for some reason or another they have not been able to showcase their full talents and could look to be moved.

Jabari Parker Nerlens Noel Aaron Gordon Mario Hezonja Kelly Oubre Dario Saric are all guys id pick up the phone for.

I wouldn't expect any of these guys to be available but I think they are all worth a phone call

I agree with that general strategy.  We can't rely on necessarily getting any high picks ourselves, so we can try and see about trading for guys with excellent draft pedigree who haven't gotten the chance to realize their potential for whatever reason.

For the most part, their teams will (rightly) refuse to give up on them so soon, regardless of fit or rotation depth.  But there might be an opportunity or two there.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
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Re: We Need to Make Some Moves!
« Reply #58 on: January 04, 2016, 07:38:03 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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I think we should aim to acquire recently drafted high potential players who are in places where for some reason or another they have not been able to showcase their full talents and could look to be moved.

Jabari Parker Nerlens Noel Aaron Gordon Mario Hezonja Kelly Oubre Dario Saric are all guys id pick up the phone for.

I wouldn't expect any of these guys to be available but I think they are all worth a phone call

I agree with that general strategy.  We can't rely on necessarily getting any high picks ourselves, so we can try and see about trading for guys with excellent draft pedigree who haven't gotten the chance to realize their potential for whatever reason.

For the most part, their teams will (rightly) refuse to give up on them so soon, regardless of fit or rotation depth.  But there might be an opportunity or two there.
Absolutely that is why I included that last line. I don't want to give the impression that I expect to be able to send Sully and a 2nd for Jabari Parker.

In fact I think a lot of these guys would require IT or AB or both and for many of them I'm ok with that. I'd be willing to "punt" this season to get Parker or Noel or someone like thay

Re: We Need to Make Some Moves!
« Reply #59 on: January 04, 2016, 07:42:06 PM »

Offline jmen788

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The following are players & draft picks that I wouldn't mind seeing shipped off (for the right return):
Lee, Zeller, Sully, Jerebko, Boston 2016 1st, Dallas 2016 1st, Minnesota 2016 1st (will be two 2nds), Boston 2018 pick

Look at this list of dynamic stuff you are willing to 'deal' from a slightly-above .500 team that is 8th place in the East...

A 32 year-old PF in the last year of a huge contract who is a bench-player averaging 16 min/game
A 26 year-old C in the last year of a tiny deal who is a bench-player averaging 8 min/game and gets lots of DNPs
A 23 year-old F/C in the last year of a rookie deal who will be a restricted free agent, at 25 min/game, who has serious health question marks
A 28 year-old back-up F in the last year of a mid-size deal who plays 13 min/game

2 later 1st-round picks in 2016, 2 likely 2nd round picks in 2016, and a likely later 1st rounder in 2018

No way we are getting anything close to All-Star talent for this stuff.

Really? We got Isiah Thomas, a borderline All Star, for a Cavs first rounder that will be pick 25-30.

Sometimes I wonder if some people are even watching the games and truly following the team...

I've seen every game this year, most at home in person...I can tell you full stop that what you are offering will not get much more in value than we are giving away. 

You cannot compare the Thomas deal, that was essentially forced by the Dragic chaos.  If Dragic wanted to resign in Phoenix I am not sure IT ever wears Celtics green.

The best we get back with your idea is a solid 6th man/fringe starter for a Sullinger + Lee + 2 1st rounders package.  Does that make this team appreciably better?  If we traded that package for someone - say - like Amir Johnson...would you be doing cartwheels?

I never said that - you're saying that.

What about Lee, Boston or Dallas 2016 pick, and a couple 2nds for Tyreke Evans? Nothing quite as dramatic and apocalyptic as you claim I propose...  :-\