Pretend You're Colangelo... what do you do?

[Evantime34]

Going back to what I posted earlier as far as my plan if I were in Colangelo's position, here's a picture of the roster I'd like to have heading into next season:

Picks -

#2 becomes Skal Labissiere
#4 (LAL) becomes Jamal Murray

I'd trade the other late 1sts (from CHI, OKC,and MIA) for early 2nd rounders that I'd use on the best draft and stash candidates available.  I'd use all my 2nd rounders on draft and stash candidates that might pay off later.

Saric stays overseas another year until I can pay him more than the rookie scale.

Trade Noel, Thompson and Covington for Tony Snell, Doug McDermott, Bobby Portis, Chicago 2016, and the rights to SAC's 2016 pick (top 10 protected this year so it probably rolls over and gets juicier the following year)

(This trade would happen because Pau and Noah both leave Chicago in free agency)

Sign Brandon Jennings (2 year deal, $15 million annually, player option for second year)
Sign Kent Bazemore (3 year deal, $12 million annually, player option for third year)

Sign Nene (2 year deal, $10 million annually, team option for second year)
Sign Foye (2 years $5 million annually)

Waive / buyout Landry to make space to keep Jerami Grant.

Jennings / Marshall / Foye
Bazemore / Murray / Stauskas
McDermott / Snell/ Sampson
Nene / Portis / Grant
Okafor / Skal / Embiid


That team would still stink, and they'd still have high draft picks headed their way in the future.  But they'd actually look like an NBA team, with players in the rotation who have experience on winning teams and who have proven, NBA-level skills that a coach can utilize to design plays. 

Plenty of high level talent still on the roster, it's just not getting thrust into major roles right away.  Guys like Skal and Murray would have to earn a starting a role.

Love the Skal and Murray picks. They give Philly two guys who either have elite athleticism or length at their position.

I like the free agents for that team other than Nene who I don't think fits what they want to do long term anymore than Okafor does.

Which brings me to the main question. Do you think Okafor is a better player to keep than Noel? If I were Collangelo I'm keeping Noel, bringing in Saric and then drafting guys who are long/athletic and can guard multiple positions.

Think of a lineup like this
Noel
Saric
Simmons
Covington
Bazemore

No traditional point guard, shortest player is the 6'5 Bazemore, everyone can switch on at least 3 positions. Replace Simmons with Murray and slide everyone up a spot and the idea is still the same.

Completely agree with trading the extra picks they have. Although I think with Collangelo in the fold they will try to get guys who can fill out the back end of the roster immediately rather than draft and stash.

[Evantime34]

Just a point of perspective.  In the last three seasons Boston has had 19, 22, and 15 players play in at least one game.  Philly is at 23, 25, and 13.  Ainge has made it clear that he will trade anyone at anytime including the face of the franchise (Pierce).  Ainge has yet to sign a meaningful free agent.  For all the crap that Philly gets, shouldn't Ainge also get it.  Why would any meaningful free agent sign in Boston if you know at any moment you might get traded?  Heck even no trade clauses don't matter - see KG.

I've said for a while that there is a very large element of "Trust in the Process / GM" among Celtics fans, nearly as much as with Philly fans.  The main difference is that Ainge is placing his eggs mostly in the "Swing a big trade" basket, as opposed to the "Draft a handful of star prospects" basket, and the Celts are hanging around the middle of the league in the meantime as a result.

If Philly had been able to make a trade at the start of their rebuild process like the one Ainge did with Brooklyn, maybe they would have followed a path more similar to the Celts.

That is kind of ridiculous. I have heard a few people jokingly say in Danny we trust, but aside from that our team has a pretty clear direction.

I mean, we've got a decent team right now with a pile of assets that our amazing coach has cobbled into an actual playoff squad.

But still, relevance in this league means having at least one really amazing player who can win a game pretty much on his own.  We don't have anybody like that.  So the question remains: how are the Celts going to get that player?

Right now, I'd say there are two major possibilities.  Either (a) one of the Nets picks turns into that player or (b) Danny Ainge swings a trade.

Either way, we're hoping on a draft pick or placing our faith in the GM turn a pile of assets into one or more superstars. 

We're left saying "In Danny We Trust."  "Danny will find a way to make a trade."  "Danny will bring us fireworks." "Danny did it once before with KG, he can do it again."

The main difference, like I said, is our team doesn't totally stink in the interim, because Ainge has diversified his assets by collecting players who are actually decent right now as well as draft picks and prospects.


Like Philly, the Celts' roster has been a revolving door over the last few years, and will probably be a revolving door again next summer.  It's starting to look like we might have a clearer picture of a core group -- Thomas, Crowder, Bradley, Sullinger, Smart, Olynyk. 

But if there's a trade opportunity for a major piece, you know Ainge would get rid of any or all of those guys if necessary.  And the rest of the roster?  I wouldn't bet on anybody else on the roster being here this time next season.

That is the point I was getting at.  And obviously being a mid level team has a bit more clout than being a doormat, but I don't think it is that much different really, when you have a GM that has shown everyone is on the trading block (which both Philly and Boston do).  What meaningful free agent is going to sign long term in Boston with Ainge running things?  I mean the odds that a free agent survives the 4 year max contract are very very small based on Ainge's dealings and even if he does he is going to face constant roster turnover.  If Boston doesn't hit on the Brooklyn pick this year, then I can't see how Boston gets that franchise level player without bottoming out itself because Brooklyn will get better this summer diminishing the 17 and 18 Brooklyn picks and there really aren't enough player assets on this team to acquire a franchise talent (without the 16 Brooklyn pick). 

I think it is pretty safe to say that 3 or 4 years from now Boston will be looking up to Philadelphia and it will be that way for a decade unless Boston cashes in the 16 Brooklyn pick at the trade deadline, this summer, or gets a franchise caliber player with that pick.  I just can't see a reasonable path to a title for Boston without that 16 Brooklyn pick or without Boston bottoming out itself (it doesn't need to go overboard like Philly has, but does need to be a bottom five team for a couple of seasons).  Boston just doesn't have the assets to be a real contender for a star player via trade or free agency, especially given Ainge's propensity to trade anyone at anytime.

This seems like a weirdly defeatist attitude given that you personally witnessed Ainge do EXACTLY what you're now saying can't be done.

Mike

No, I witnessed Ainge turn a mediocre team into a title winner with Paul Pierce on the team, a top 5 pick (not a potential one, an actual one), and a player asset (Al Jefferson) significantly better than any player asset on the current team.  The only one of those is potentially possible is the Brooklyn pick turning into a top 5 pick (which looks like it might be, but isn't there yet).  That is what sets the current team apart.  There is no Paul Pierce, there is no Al Jefferson.  That is why I'm not a fan of the outlook without that Brooklyn pick hitting or Ainge finding another real diamond in the rough in the middle of the first round (possible, but I wouldn't bank on it).

I don't like the comparison between this current team and the pre KG teams.

Those teams weren't very good, with little cohesion. This team is elite defensively and one of the better passing teams in the league. While we might currently have less assets to bring in stars, we have the system, coach and players in place to make it more likely one develops/wants to come here.

Ainge doesn't have to completely overhaul the team like he did when KG here, he just needs to keep the players that allow us to maintain our defense and slightly improve our defense and we are a 50+ win team.

 I like the chances of an elite defensive team with unselfish players and cap space to become great even if it's not in the same way the team became great before.
 

[PhoSita]

Do you think Okafor is a better player to keep than Noel?

I think Okafor has a higher ceiling than Noel and trading him within the next year or so probably wouldn't net a return that's close to his eventual value. 

Whereas I think Noel could make sense on a number of different teams as a defensive specialist with an OK offensive ceiling at center.

[Celtics4ever]

Okafor is clearly better than Noel, but I do not see him trading to a divisional rival as Colangelo has been around for a while.

This team is a lot better than the preKG teams with one exception we have no PP and Perk was a good low post defender and AJ and good post player on offense.  Other than that we are superior in every way today.  PP is better then than anyone we have now.  AJ was a better offensive post player than anyone we have now.  He was scoring 16 PPG on 51% shooting with 11 boards  thought some here will claim Sully is this good but stats say otherwise, he does score that good, shoot that good or rebound as well.   I would present that Perk was already rising up as a post defender and rim protecting enforcer.   

[BDeCosta26]

Before anything else you have to to something to signal the regime change. If it was me, sign a guy off the street right now with good NBA experience who don't want a lot of minutes and who can police that locker room. Where's Crash Wallace these days?

Beyond that, First thing I would do is gather the thinking heads together and try to figure out with one of Noel or Okafor your better off keeping. Okafor is probably the better prospect, but in terms of things like trade value, system fit, character and leadership it really isn't that clear cut who your better off keeping. But they won't ever really fit together and the longer you force it the lower their trade value. Then you move the one you decide to move for the best return of 2016 picks and young prospects you can find.

Figure out if Brett Brown actually has a place there. See if he has a vision for what kind of team he wants and if that vision is worth buying into.

Stay on the prowl for any young guys you might be high on that could be undervalued. Just for example, if the C's wanted Covington you would try to get Mickey if your keeping Jah or Hunter/Young if your keeping Noel. Make a commitment to the system you want to run though, and target undervalued young guys who fit that mold. Try to use one of your late 1sts or two on this type of move come around draft time. Never ever sign Dion Waiters.

Your gonna have another high pick, or maybe even two, this year. Stay flexible. Listen to any and all offers. If you don't get Simmons, and you don't trade back/out for established but young good players (Oladipo), draft a guy that fits what direction your team is going not just purely the BPA. If you keep Noel and Skal Lab is on the board, take him if you like him. Dunn from Providence if you move somewhere to his range should you keep Okafor. Or maybe trade Boston #2 for #5, #15 and Terry Rozier if you like him (or another guy from another team, Boston just has a lot of pieces to play with too). Be ready for any situation to seize on it if it gives you a broader base of young talent to start building an actual team with.

Most importantly is start developing some kind of united front of continuity and development. They have to start building toward some style of play with some competitiveness, fire and passion around that locker room. Get guys with a Crowder or Smart like personality to establish some leadership and accountability. Get at least one or two more veterans. Establish a core group of guys at different positions to develop and build a team around their strengths and weaknesses. It can't be a collection of d-leaguers and a few blue-chips, it's gotta be a couple core guys your most highly invested in and a bunch of other guys you have medium-low investment in. Have Saric come over NO MATTER WHAT. There's a lot of assets to play with there, but none of it really fits together. Identify a few you wanna keep and build around, and start turning the other ones into a cohesive roster that may be young and win 25-30 games but they'll be cohesive, competitive and be establishing an identity around a core group of young guys that you think will fit together and grow together, using your remaining pieces to finish the puzzle.

At least then you'll have re-established credibility in the league/with agents and other players, so guys might actually consider going there too.

[Ogaju]

Punt?

[LarBrd33]

Philly is closer to a championship than Boston right now. 

That's like saying I'm closer to the moon than the guy working on the floor below me.  It may be true in a simplistically technical sense but it is utterly meaningless.

i think it's more like saying I'm closer to the moon, because I have all the necessary parts for building a rocket ship... Just no idea if the pieces all work, how the pieces fit together, or how to pilot that thing once it's built.  It's gonna take some time to figure it out.  Luckily I got lots of money to buy some new pieces once this thing starts taking shape.

Whereas, my neighbor is piloting a Boeing 747 loaded to the brim with all sorts of useful tools and thingamabobs.  It flies pretty well already... And you know, if someone can figure out how to modify it, perhaps trade some of those thingamabobs for a bonafied rocket engine...   Maybe it will get to the moon anyways.   Could happen.  There's a crazy chain-smoking Yugoslavian living down the street with a bootleg rocket engine he might be willing to sell at some point, but he's too busy accidentally building a bomb with it.  I hear it's pretty volatile.  But who knows... Maybe you get that engine, strap it onto your 747 and boogie on to the moon.  But if I'd have to guess right now, I'd say it's more likely that the guy with all the rocket ship parts will get there sooner.

[2short]

Scotch

[hwangjini_1]

Scotch

and a lot of it.