Pretend You're Colangelo... what do you do?

[celticsclay]

Just a point of perspective.  In the last three seasons Boston has had 19, 22, and 15 players play in at least one game.  Philly is at 23, 25, and 13.  Ainge has made it clear that he will trade anyone at anytime including the face of the franchise (Pierce).  Ainge has yet to sign a meaningful free agent.  For all the crap that Philly gets, shouldn't Ainge also get it.  Why would any meaningful free agent sign in Boston if you know at any moment you might get traded?  Heck even no trade clauses don't matter - see KG.

I've said for a while that there is a very large element of "Trust in the Process / GM" among Celtics fans, nearly as much as with Philly fans.  The main difference is that Ainge is placing his eggs mostly in the "Swing a big trade" basket, as opposed to the "Draft a handful of star prospects" basket, and the Celts are hanging around the middle of the league in the meantime as a result.

If Philly had been able to make a trade at the start of their rebuild process like the one Ainge did with Brooklyn, maybe they would have followed a path more similar to the Celts.

That is kind of ridiculous. I have heard a few people jokingly say in Danny we trust, but aside from that our team has a pretty clear direction. We finished with the 6th or 7th worst record two years ago. Then jumped to lower level playoff/back end lottery team. This year we are projected to finish above .500 this year, even in an improved east. We have added a near all-star talent in Thomas (if he isn't actually an all-star this year) and have seen growth from our younger players as crowder, bradley, sully and KO continue to get better. On top of that we have, a miracle, at worst a top 10 pick coming our way, with no bad contracts on the books. It would be hard to argue any of our players have peaked and we play a real minimum number of established veterans (Johnson the only starter, Lee and Jerekbro spot minutes) We don't have to trust anything, we can see the improvements every game we turn on the TV.

[wiley]

If I'm Brian Colangelo, and I have a certain Machiavellian bent, I do nothing until the off-season. And I don't allow Hinkie to do much either.

Because next year was SUPPOSED to be the year it turned around. Next year is the year you start to really clear house of the assets you don't want to keep or can't flip, and next year is the year you finish 3 or 4 game below .500 and barely miss the playoffs. Much like the actual Magic this year.

And if Colangelo is a real jerk, he can just wait until the offseason and get Hinkie outta there then. And then Colangelo can get all the credit for the turnaround.

I argued this some against LarBrd33, I don't see how they can catch the Magic so quickly.  I may rate the Magic higher than some others though.  I see the Celtics as soooo far ahead of Philly, and I see the Magic as a problem team for the Celtics going forward. 

If the Sixers land the all important Simmons I will then give them a chance to catch the Magic in a couple of years...but it still won't be easy.

[colincb]

The Sixers are whale dung on the ocean floor among NBA execs, players, and agents as well as the media that Hinkie has either shun or misled. The Sixers have been effing over players on contracts, burning bridges with agents, and p-ing off other teams. They have a horrendous reputation and Colangelo will have to exert real power and be more than just a special adviser to overcome the damage Hinkie has done. The only people Hinkie has impressed is Harris who made a huge hiring mistake in making Hinkie a newbie GM based on a Powerpoint presentation and people for whom the "Process" is an epiphany that only they can understand.

The Sixers are going to have to overpay in any free agent bidding war and free agents who want to win aren't going there even for more money. Trades won't be so easy to pull off either because who wants to go there?

How many Titles has this Jerry Colangelo won. Zero But Hinkle's plan may look good next year with a top 5 pick, Embrid and Dario coming over. Dion Waiters wants to play there so there is hope yet. LOL

Lot's of hope for those who have faith in the Process.

PHX is 4th all-time in wins behind the Cs, Lakers, and Spurs and Colangelo was with them as GM or owner for 34 years, second only to Red in terms of tenure. He's a heavyweight in the NBA world and he didn't come in to be window dressing.

Hinkie has amassed a career 39 wins and there's no superstars on the roster (or overseas) and barring getting lucky with their 25% chance at Simmons they aren't going to have one. But they will have p---ed off everyone in the NBA as well as their local media. Now they will have to really work to out-tank the Lakers to have that high of a chance. I'm sure that will make Brown, Noel, and Okafor happy.

We had LarBrd33 claim here that turnarounds from bottom feeders to contenders happen all the time, They're actually very rare in the 70 year history of the NBA though the Cs have had two of them, In any case there's no basis for thinking the Sixers will have such a dramatic turnaround other than wishful thinking.

[PhoSita]

Just a point of perspective.  In the last three seasons Boston has had 19, 22, and 15 players play in at least one game.  Philly is at 23, 25, and 13.  Ainge has made it clear that he will trade anyone at anytime including the face of the franchise (Pierce).  Ainge has yet to sign a meaningful free agent.  For all the crap that Philly gets, shouldn't Ainge also get it.  Why would any meaningful free agent sign in Boston if you know at any moment you might get traded?  Heck even no trade clauses don't matter - see KG.

I've said for a while that there is a very large element of "Trust in the Process / GM" among Celtics fans, nearly as much as with Philly fans.  The main difference is that Ainge is placing his eggs mostly in the "Swing a big trade" basket, as opposed to the "Draft a handful of star prospects" basket, and the Celts are hanging around the middle of the league in the meantime as a result.

If Philly had been able to make a trade at the start of their rebuild process like the one Ainge did with Brooklyn, maybe they would have followed a path more similar to the Celts.

That is kind of ridiculous. I have heard a few people jokingly say in Danny we trust, but aside from that our team has a pretty clear direction.

I mean, we've got a decent team right now with a pile of assets that our amazing coach has cobbled into an actual playoff squad.

But still, relevance in this league means having at least one really amazing player who can win a game pretty much on his own.  We don't have anybody like that.  So the question remains: how are the Celts going to get that player?

Right now, I'd say there are two major possibilities.  Either (a) one of the Nets picks turns into that player or (b) Danny Ainge swings a trade.

Either way, we're hoping on a draft pick or placing our faith in the GM turn a pile of assets into one or more superstars. 

We're left saying "In Danny We Trust."  "Danny will find a way to make a trade."  "Danny will bring us fireworks." "Danny did it once before with KG, he can do it again."

The main difference, like I said, is our team doesn't totally stink in the interim, because Ainge has diversified his assets by collecting players who are actually decent right now as well as draft picks and prospects.


Like Philly, the Celts' roster has been a revolving door over the last few years, and will probably be a revolving door again next summer.  It's starting to look like we might have a clearer picture of a core group -- Thomas, Crowder, Bradley, Sullinger, Smart, Olynyk. 

But if there's a trade opportunity for a major piece, you know Ainge would get rid of any or all of those guys if necessary.  And the rest of the roster?  I wouldn't bet on anybody else on the roster being here this time next season.

[LarBrd33]

If I'm Brian Colangelo, and I have a certain Machiavellian bent, I do nothing until the off-season. And I don't allow Hinkie to do much either.

Because next year was SUPPOSED to be the year it turned around. Next year is the year you start to really clear house of the assets you don't want to keep or can't flip, and next year is the year you finish 3 or 4 game below .500 and barely miss the playoffs. Much like the actual Magic this year.

And if Colangelo is a real jerk, he can just wait until the offseason and get Hinkie outta there then. And then Colangelo can get all the credit for the turnaround.

They don't have a single active player on that roster over the age of 24.  Think about that for a second.   Robert Covington is their oldest active player.  He's 4 months older than Kelly Olynyk.

They shouldn't do anything until the Summer.  Get what they get in the draft.  See what comes of the Embiid and Saric situations.   Then make some decisions this summer to help fill out the roster.  Moving a big for a point guard is easy.   There aren't many all-star caliber bigs in this league... but it's completely flooded with 6 foot guards.   

Signing vets is easy.  Someone will gladly take Philly's money.   I wouldn't rule out a young Tobias Harris level quality player signing for max money there.  Philly certainly has the money.  At the very least, they can just open up the offseason by offering max money to a few different restricted free agents and see what happens. 

I'd do nothing right now.   I don't expect Philly to do anything right now.  But some are buying the idea that the league is forcing Philly's hand and that big swooping changes will happen immediately... so I was curious to see what those changes would entail.  Any move you make right now is just selling low.

[celticsclay]

If I'm Brian Colangelo, and I have a certain Machiavellian bent, I do nothing until the off-season. And I don't allow Hinkie to do much either.

Because next year was SUPPOSED to be the year it turned around. Next year is the year you start to really clear house of the assets you don't want to keep or can't flip, and next year is the year you finish 3 or 4 game below .500 and barely miss the playoffs. Much like the actual Magic this year.

And if Colangelo is a real jerk, he can just wait until the offseason and get Hinkie outta there then. And then Colangelo can get all the credit for the turnaround.

They don't have a single active player on that roster over the age of 24.  Think about that for a second.   Robert Covington is their oldest active player.  He's 4 months older than Kelly Olynyk.

They shouldn't do anything until the Summer.  Get what they get in the draft.  See what comes of the Embiid and Saric situations.   Then make some decisions this summer to help fill out the roster.  Moving a big for a point guard is easy.   There aren't many all-star caliber bigs in this league... but it's completely flooded with 6 foot guards.   

Signing vets is easy.  Someone will gladly take Philly's money.   I wouldn't rule out a young Tobias Harris level quality player signing for max money there.  Philly certainly has the money.  At the very least, they can just open up the offseason by offering max money to a few different restricted free agents and see what happens. 

I'd do nothing right now.   I don't expect Philly to do anything right now.  But some are buying the idea that the league is forcing Philly's hand and that big swooping changes will happen immediately... so I was curious to see what those changes would entail.  Any move you make right now is just selling low.

If you type the same thing out 1000x does it start to feel any differently? I think even the most casual users of this forum know your opinion on this. Why the need to keep saying it?

[Moranis]

Just a point of perspective.  In the last three seasons Boston has had 19, 22, and 15 players play in at least one game.  Philly is at 23, 25, and 13.  Ainge has made it clear that he will trade anyone at anytime including the face of the franchise (Pierce).  Ainge has yet to sign a meaningful free agent.  For all the crap that Philly gets, shouldn't Ainge also get it.  Why would any meaningful free agent sign in Boston if you know at any moment you might get traded?  Heck even no trade clauses don't matter - see KG.

I've said for a while that there is a very large element of "Trust in the Process / GM" among Celtics fans, nearly as much as with Philly fans.  The main difference is that Ainge is placing his eggs mostly in the "Swing a big trade" basket, as opposed to the "Draft a handful of star prospects" basket, and the Celts are hanging around the middle of the league in the meantime as a result.

If Philly had been able to make a trade at the start of their rebuild process like the one Ainge did with Brooklyn, maybe they would have followed a path more similar to the Celts.

That is kind of ridiculous. I have heard a few people jokingly say in Danny we trust, but aside from that our team has a pretty clear direction.

I mean, we've got a decent team right now with a pile of assets that our amazing coach has cobbled into an actual playoff squad.

But still, relevance in this league means having at least one really amazing player who can win a game pretty much on his own.  We don't have anybody like that.  So the question remains: how are the Celts going to get that player?

Right now, I'd say there are two major possibilities.  Either (a) one of the Nets picks turns into that player or (b) Danny Ainge swings a trade.

Either way, we're hoping on a draft pick or placing our faith in the GM turn a pile of assets into one or more superstars. 

We're left saying "In Danny We Trust."  "Danny will find a way to make a trade."  "Danny will bring us fireworks." "Danny did it once before with KG, he can do it again."

The main difference, like I said, is our team doesn't totally stink in the interim, because Ainge has diversified his assets by collecting players who are actually decent right now as well as draft picks and prospects.


Like Philly, the Celts' roster has been a revolving door over the last few years, and will probably be a revolving door again next summer.  It's starting to look like we might have a clearer picture of a core group -- Thomas, Crowder, Bradley, Sullinger, Smart, Olynyk. 

But if there's a trade opportunity for a major piece, you know Ainge would get rid of any or all of those guys if necessary.  And the rest of the roster?  I wouldn't bet on anybody else on the roster being here this time next season.

That is the point I was getting at.  And obviously being a mid level team has a bit more clout than being a doormat, but I don't think it is that much different really, when you have a GM that has shown everyone is on the trading block (which both Philly and Boston do).  What meaningful free agent is going to sign long term in Boston with Ainge running things?  I mean the odds that a free agent survives the 4 year max contract are very very small based on Ainge's dealings and even if he does he is going to face constant roster turnover.  If Boston doesn't hit on the Brooklyn pick this year, then I can't see how Boston gets that franchise level player without bottoming out itself because Brooklyn will get better this summer diminishing the 17 and 18 Brooklyn picks and there really aren't enough player assets on this team to acquire a franchise talent (without the 16 Brooklyn pick). 

I think it is pretty safe to say that 3 or 4 years from now Boston will be looking up to Philadelphia and it will be that way for a decade unless Boston cashes in the 16 Brooklyn pick at the trade deadline, this summer, or gets a franchise caliber player with that pick.  I just can't see a reasonable path to a title for Boston without that 16 Brooklyn pick or without Boston bottoming out itself (it doesn't need to go overboard like Philly has, but does need to be a bottom five team for a couple of seasons).  Boston just doesn't have the assets to be a real contender for a star player via trade or free agency, especially given Ainge's propensity to trade anyone at anytime. 

[Moranis]

If I'm Brian Colangelo, and I have a certain Machiavellian bent, I do nothing until the off-season. And I don't allow Hinkie to do much either.

Because next year was SUPPOSED to be the year it turned around. Next year is the year you start to really clear house of the assets you don't want to keep or can't flip, and next year is the year you finish 3 or 4 game below .500 and barely miss the playoffs. Much like the actual Magic this year.

And if Colangelo is a real jerk, he can just wait until the offseason and get Hinkie outta there then. And then Colangelo can get all the credit for the turnaround.

They don't have a single active player on that roster over the age of 24.  Think about that for a second.   Robert Covington is their oldest active player.  He's 4 months older than Kelly Olynyk.

They shouldn't do anything until the Summer.  Get what they get in the draft.  See what comes of the Embiid and Saric situations.   Then make some decisions this summer to help fill out the roster.  Moving a big for a point guard is easy.   There aren't many all-star caliber bigs in this league... but it's completely flooded with 6 foot guards.   

Signing vets is easy.  Someone will gladly take Philly's money.   I wouldn't rule out a young Tobias Harris level quality player signing for max money there.  Philly certainly has the money.  At the very least, they can just open up the offseason by offering max money to a few different restricted free agents and see what happens. 

I'd do nothing right now.   I don't expect Philly to do anything right now.  But some are buying the idea that the league is forcing Philly's hand and that big swooping changes will happen immediately... so I was curious to see what those changes would entail.  Any move you make right now is just selling low.

I think they will make a real push for Conley this summer.  He seems like a really good fit for that roster.  I don't know if Conley would go to a rebuilding team, but if Philly offers him a 4 year full max it might be too hard to pass up (especially with the increased cap).  Once a guy like Conley is on board it will be a lot easier for Philly to attract other free agents.  I think you could see someone like OJ Mayo or Nic Batum going there.  Waiters has apparently expressed interest.

So let's assume they don't get Simmons or the Lakers pick (so a real worst case) and end up with the 3rd pick and Jaylen Brown (SG/SF).

I'd go hard after Conley on a max contract and at the same time reach out to Mayo, Deng, Batum, Parsons, Ryan Anderson, and players of that ilk. 

Now maybe they strike out on those guys, but I think even if they end up with a roster of Okafor, Noel, Covington, Brown, Wroten with Embiid, Saric, Thompson, Stauskas, Landry, Marshall, and the two mid to late 1sts you are looking at a bad team, but not an all time bad team and one with a real hope for the future.

[Evantime34]

Just a point of perspective.  In the last three seasons Boston has had 19, 22, and 15 players play in at least one game.  Philly is at 23, 25, and 13.  Ainge has made it clear that he will trade anyone at anytime including the face of the franchise (Pierce).  Ainge has yet to sign a meaningful free agent.  For all the crap that Philly gets, shouldn't Ainge also get it.  Why would any meaningful free agent sign in Boston if you know at any moment you might get traded?  Heck even no trade clauses don't matter - see KG.

I've said for a while that there is a very large element of "Trust in the Process / GM" among Celtics fans, nearly as much as with Philly fans.  The main difference is that Ainge is placing his eggs mostly in the "Swing a big trade" basket, as opposed to the "Draft a handful of star prospects" basket, and the Celts are hanging around the middle of the league in the meantime as a result.

If Philly had been able to make a trade at the start of their rebuild process like the one Ainge did with Brooklyn, maybe they would have followed a path more similar to the Celts.

That is kind of ridiculous. I have heard a few people jokingly say in Danny we trust, but aside from that our team has a pretty clear direction.

I mean, we've got a decent team right now with a pile of assets that our amazing coach has cobbled into an actual playoff squad.

But still, relevance in this league means having at least one really amazing player who can win a game pretty much on his own.  We don't have anybody like that.  So the question remains: how are the Celts going to get that player?

Right now, I'd say there are two major possibilities.  Either (a) one of the Nets picks turns into that player or (b) Danny Ainge swings a trade.

Either way, we're hoping on a draft pick or placing our faith in the GM turn a pile of assets into one or more superstars. 

We're left saying "In Danny We Trust."  "Danny will find a way to make a trade."  "Danny will bring us fireworks." "Danny did it once before with KG, he can do it again."

The main difference, like I said, is our team doesn't totally stink in the interim, because Ainge has diversified his assets by collecting players who are actually decent right now as well as draft picks and prospects.


Like Philly, the Celts' roster has been a revolving door over the last few years, and will probably be a revolving door again next summer.  It's starting to look like we might have a clearer picture of a core group -- Thomas, Crowder, Bradley, Sullinger, Smart, Olynyk. 

But if there's a trade opportunity for a major piece, you know Ainge would get rid of any or all of those guys if necessary.  And the rest of the roster?  I wouldn't bet on anybody else on the roster being here this time next season.

That is the point I was getting at.  And obviously being a mid level team has a bit more clout than being a doormat, but I don't think it is that much different really, when you have a GM that has shown everyone is on the trading block (which both Philly and Boston do).  What meaningful free agent is going to sign long term in Boston with Ainge running things?  I mean the odds that a free agent survives the 4 year max contract are very very small based on Ainge's dealings and even if he does he is going to face constant roster turnover.  If Boston doesn't hit on the Brooklyn pick this year, then I can't see how Boston gets that franchise level player without bottoming out itself because Brooklyn will get better this summer diminishing the 17 and 18 Brooklyn picks and there really aren't enough player assets on this team to acquire a franchise talent (without the 16 Brooklyn pick). 

I think it is pretty safe to say that 3 or 4 years from now Boston will be looking up to Philadelphia and it will be that way for a decade unless Boston cashes in the 16 Brooklyn pick at the trade deadline, this summer, or gets a franchise caliber player with that pick.  I just can't see a reasonable path to a title for Boston without that 16 Brooklyn pick or without Boston bottoming out itself (it doesn't need to go overboard like Philly has, but does need to be a bottom five team for a couple of seasons).  Boston just doesn't have the assets to be a real contender for a star player via trade or free agency, especially given Ainge's propensity to trade anyone at anytime.

I'm going to give you a TP. The amount of perseverance you show in supporting the C's despite feeling that they are going to get passed by the sixers is impressive. If I felt the way you did about the Sixers rebuild vs mine I wouldn't be able to continue supporting the C's.

[Moranis]

Just a point of perspective.  In the last three seasons Boston has had 19, 22, and 15 players play in at least one game.  Philly is at 23, 25, and 13.  Ainge has made it clear that he will trade anyone at anytime including the face of the franchise (Pierce).  Ainge has yet to sign a meaningful free agent.  For all the crap that Philly gets, shouldn't Ainge also get it.  Why would any meaningful free agent sign in Boston if you know at any moment you might get traded?  Heck even no trade clauses don't matter - see KG.

I've said for a while that there is a very large element of "Trust in the Process / GM" among Celtics fans, nearly as much as with Philly fans.  The main difference is that Ainge is placing his eggs mostly in the "Swing a big trade" basket, as opposed to the "Draft a handful of star prospects" basket, and the Celts are hanging around the middle of the league in the meantime as a result.

If Philly had been able to make a trade at the start of their rebuild process like the one Ainge did with Brooklyn, maybe they would have followed a path more similar to the Celts.

That is kind of ridiculous. I have heard a few people jokingly say in Danny we trust, but aside from that our team has a pretty clear direction.

I mean, we've got a decent team right now with a pile of assets that our amazing coach has cobbled into an actual playoff squad.

But still, relevance in this league means having at least one really amazing player who can win a game pretty much on his own.  We don't have anybody like that.  So the question remains: how are the Celts going to get that player?

Right now, I'd say there are two major possibilities.  Either (a) one of the Nets picks turns into that player or (b) Danny Ainge swings a trade.

Either way, we're hoping on a draft pick or placing our faith in the GM turn a pile of assets into one or more superstars. 

We're left saying "In Danny We Trust."  "Danny will find a way to make a trade."  "Danny will bring us fireworks." "Danny did it once before with KG, he can do it again."

The main difference, like I said, is our team doesn't totally stink in the interim, because Ainge has diversified his assets by collecting players who are actually decent right now as well as draft picks and prospects.


Like Philly, the Celts' roster has been a revolving door over the last few years, and will probably be a revolving door again next summer.  It's starting to look like we might have a clearer picture of a core group -- Thomas, Crowder, Bradley, Sullinger, Smart, Olynyk. 

But if there's a trade opportunity for a major piece, you know Ainge would get rid of any or all of those guys if necessary.  And the rest of the roster?  I wouldn't bet on anybody else on the roster being here this time next season.

That is the point I was getting at.  And obviously being a mid level team has a bit more clout than being a doormat, but I don't think it is that much different really, when you have a GM that has shown everyone is on the trading block (which both Philly and Boston do).  What meaningful free agent is going to sign long term in Boston with Ainge running things?  I mean the odds that a free agent survives the 4 year max contract are very very small based on Ainge's dealings and even if he does he is going to face constant roster turnover.  If Boston doesn't hit on the Brooklyn pick this year, then I can't see how Boston gets that franchise level player without bottoming out itself because Brooklyn will get better this summer diminishing the 17 and 18 Brooklyn picks and there really aren't enough player assets on this team to acquire a franchise talent (without the 16 Brooklyn pick). 

I think it is pretty safe to say that 3 or 4 years from now Boston will be looking up to Philadelphia and it will be that way for a decade unless Boston cashes in the 16 Brooklyn pick at the trade deadline, this summer, or gets a franchise caliber player with that pick.  I just can't see a reasonable path to a title for Boston without that 16 Brooklyn pick or without Boston bottoming out itself (it doesn't need to go overboard like Philly has, but does need to be a bottom five team for a couple of seasons).  Boston just doesn't have the assets to be a real contender for a star player via trade or free agency, especially given Ainge's propensity to trade anyone at anytime.

I'm going to give you a TP. The amount of perseverance you show in supporting the C's despite feeling that they are going to get passed by the sixers is impressive. If I felt the way you did about the Sixers rebuild vs mine I wouldn't be able to continue supporting the C's.

I'm just hoping that Brooklyn pick hits.  Even if Boston misses out on Simmons as long it gets Skal, I think it would be huge.  One of those 2 guys and Boston's outlook get a lot better.  Not that Brown, Murray, Ingram, etc. are bad players, I just don't see them as difference makers like Simmons and Labissiere appear to be. 

[LarBrd33]

Just a point of perspective.  In the last three seasons Boston has had 19, 22, and 15 players play in at least one game.  Philly is at 23, 25, and 13.  Ainge has made it clear that he will trade anyone at anytime including the face of the franchise (Pierce).  Ainge has yet to sign a meaningful free agent.  For all the crap that Philly gets, shouldn't Ainge also get it.  Why would any meaningful free agent sign in Boston if you know at any moment you might get traded?  Heck even no trade clauses don't matter - see KG.

I've said for a while that there is a very large element of "Trust in the Process / GM" among Celtics fans, nearly as much as with Philly fans.  The main difference is that Ainge is placing his eggs mostly in the "Swing a big trade" basket, as opposed to the "Draft a handful of star prospects" basket, and the Celts are hanging around the middle of the league in the meantime as a result.

If Philly had been able to make a trade at the start of their rebuild process like the one Ainge did with Brooklyn, maybe they would have followed a path more similar to the Celts.

That is kind of ridiculous. I have heard a few people jokingly say in Danny we trust, but aside from that our team has a pretty clear direction.

I mean, we've got a decent team right now with a pile of assets that our amazing coach has cobbled into an actual playoff squad.

But still, relevance in this league means having at least one really amazing player who can win a game pretty much on his own.  We don't have anybody like that.  So the question remains: how are the Celts going to get that player?

Right now, I'd say there are two major possibilities.  Either (a) one of the Nets picks turns into that player or (b) Danny Ainge swings a trade.

Either way, we're hoping on a draft pick or placing our faith in the GM turn a pile of assets into one or more superstars. 

We're left saying "In Danny We Trust."  "Danny will find a way to make a trade."  "Danny will bring us fireworks." "Danny did it once before with KG, he can do it again."

The main difference, like I said, is our team doesn't totally stink in the interim, because Ainge has diversified his assets by collecting players who are actually decent right now as well as draft picks and prospects.


Like Philly, the Celts' roster has been a revolving door over the last few years, and will probably be a revolving door again next summer.  It's starting to look like we might have a clearer picture of a core group -- Thomas, Crowder, Bradley, Sullinger, Smart, Olynyk. 

But if there's a trade opportunity for a major piece, you know Ainge would get rid of any or all of those guys if necessary.  And the rest of the roster?  I wouldn't bet on anybody else on the roster being here this time next season.

That is the point I was getting at.  And obviously being a mid level team has a bit more clout than being a doormat, but I don't think it is that much different really, when you have a GM that has shown everyone is on the trading block (which both Philly and Boston do).  What meaningful free agent is going to sign long term in Boston with Ainge running things?  I mean the odds that a free agent survives the 4 year max contract are very very small based on Ainge's dealings and even if he does he is going to face constant roster turnover.  If Boston doesn't hit on the Brooklyn pick this year, then I can't see how Boston gets that franchise level player without bottoming out itself because Brooklyn will get better this summer diminishing the 17 and 18 Brooklyn picks and there really aren't enough player assets on this team to acquire a franchise talent (without the 16 Brooklyn pick). 

I think it is pretty safe to say that 3 or 4 years from now Boston will be looking up to Philadelphia and it will be that way for a decade unless Boston cashes in the 16 Brooklyn pick at the trade deadline, this summer, or gets a franchise caliber player with that pick.  I just can't see a reasonable path to a title for Boston without that 16 Brooklyn pick or without Boston bottoming out itself (it doesn't need to go overboard like Philly has, but does need to be a bottom five team for a couple of seasons).  Boston just doesn't have the assets to be a real contender for a star player via trade or free agency, especially given Ainge's propensity to trade anyone at anytime.

I'm going to give you a TP. The amount of perseverance you show in supporting the C's despite feeling that they are going to get passed by the sixers is impressive. If I felt the way you did about the Sixers rebuild vs mine I wouldn't be able to continue supporting the C's.

I basically agree with Moranis.  Philly is closer to a championship than Boston right now.  Yes, Boston is better... Boston might finish with 50 wins while Philly finishes with 2... but the path in Philly for true championship contention is a lot easier than it is for Boston.  If I'm a GM tasked with building a champ, I take Philly's current assets over Boston's.

That's not to say that Boston will not trade for Cousins and sign Durant this off-season.  Ainge is a maestro.  That could maybe happen.   Who knows.  If we luck out in Ben Simmon, things can change pretty quickly.  And honestly, most likely neither team wins a title anytime in the next 20 years.  But if a time traveler were to come to me right now and say, "So one of those two teams wins the title in 2021", my guess is it's Philly.   The odds are in their favor.

[MBunge]

Just a point of perspective.  In the last three seasons Boston has had 19, 22, and 15 players play in at least one game.  Philly is at 23, 25, and 13.  Ainge has made it clear that he will trade anyone at anytime including the face of the franchise (Pierce).  Ainge has yet to sign a meaningful free agent.  For all the crap that Philly gets, shouldn't Ainge also get it.  Why would any meaningful free agent sign in Boston if you know at any moment you might get traded?  Heck even no trade clauses don't matter - see KG.

I've said for a while that there is a very large element of "Trust in the Process / GM" among Celtics fans, nearly as much as with Philly fans.  The main difference is that Ainge is placing his eggs mostly in the "Swing a big trade" basket, as opposed to the "Draft a handful of star prospects" basket, and the Celts are hanging around the middle of the league in the meantime as a result.

If Philly had been able to make a trade at the start of their rebuild process like the one Ainge did with Brooklyn, maybe they would have followed a path more similar to the Celts.

That is kind of ridiculous. I have heard a few people jokingly say in Danny we trust, but aside from that our team has a pretty clear direction.

I mean, we've got a decent team right now with a pile of assets that our amazing coach has cobbled into an actual playoff squad.

But still, relevance in this league means having at least one really amazing player who can win a game pretty much on his own.  We don't have anybody like that.  So the question remains: how are the Celts going to get that player?

Right now, I'd say there are two major possibilities.  Either (a) one of the Nets picks turns into that player or (b) Danny Ainge swings a trade.

Either way, we're hoping on a draft pick or placing our faith in the GM turn a pile of assets into one or more superstars. 

We're left saying "In Danny We Trust."  "Danny will find a way to make a trade."  "Danny will bring us fireworks." "Danny did it once before with KG, he can do it again."

The main difference, like I said, is our team doesn't totally stink in the interim, because Ainge has diversified his assets by collecting players who are actually decent right now as well as draft picks and prospects.


Like Philly, the Celts' roster has been a revolving door over the last few years, and will probably be a revolving door again next summer.  It's starting to look like we might have a clearer picture of a core group -- Thomas, Crowder, Bradley, Sullinger, Smart, Olynyk. 

But if there's a trade opportunity for a major piece, you know Ainge would get rid of any or all of those guys if necessary.  And the rest of the roster?  I wouldn't bet on anybody else on the roster being here this time next season.

That is the point I was getting at.  And obviously being a mid level team has a bit more clout than being a doormat, but I don't think it is that much different really, when you have a GM that has shown everyone is on the trading block (which both Philly and Boston do).  What meaningful free agent is going to sign long term in Boston with Ainge running things?  I mean the odds that a free agent survives the 4 year max contract are very very small based on Ainge's dealings and even if he does he is going to face constant roster turnover.  If Boston doesn't hit on the Brooklyn pick this year, then I can't see how Boston gets that franchise level player without bottoming out itself because Brooklyn will get better this summer diminishing the 17 and 18 Brooklyn picks and there really aren't enough player assets on this team to acquire a franchise talent (without the 16 Brooklyn pick). 

I think it is pretty safe to say that 3 or 4 years from now Boston will be looking up to Philadelphia and it will be that way for a decade unless Boston cashes in the 16 Brooklyn pick at the trade deadline, this summer, or gets a franchise caliber player with that pick.  I just can't see a reasonable path to a title for Boston without that 16 Brooklyn pick or without Boston bottoming out itself (it doesn't need to go overboard like Philly has, but does need to be a bottom five team for a couple of seasons).  Boston just doesn't have the assets to be a real contender for a star player via trade or free agency, especially given Ainge's propensity to trade anyone at anytime.

This seems like a weirdly defeatist attitude given that you personally witnessed Ainge do EXACTLY what you're now saying can't be done.

Mike

[MBunge]

Philly is closer to a championship than Boston right now. 

That's like saying I'm closer to the moon than the guy working on the floor below me.  It may be true in a simplistically technical sense but it is utterly meaningless.

Philly has one and only one direct route to winning a title.  Boston could go in a half dozen more circuitous directions to wind up in the same place.

Mike

[PhoSita]

Going back to what I posted earlier as far as my plan if I were in Colangelo's position, here's a picture of the roster I'd like to have heading into next season:

Picks -

#2 becomes Skal Labissiere
#4 (LAL) becomes Jamal Murray

I'd trade the other late 1sts (from CHI, OKC,and MIA) for early 2nd rounders that I'd use on the best draft and stash candidates available.  I'd use all my 2nd rounders on draft and stash candidates that might pay off later.

Saric stays overseas another year until I can pay him more than the rookie scale.

Trade Noel, Thompson and Covington for Tony Snell, Doug McDermott, Bobby Portis, Chicago 2016, and the rights to SAC's 2016 pick (top 10 protected this year so it probably rolls over and gets juicier the following year)

(This trade would happen because Pau and Noah both leave Chicago in free agency)

Sign Brandon Jennings (2 year deal, $15 million annually, player option for second year)
Sign Kent Bazemore (3 year deal, $12 million annually, player option for third year)

Sign Nene (2 year deal, $10 million annually, team option for second year)
Sign Foye (2 years $5 million annually)

Waive / buyout Landry to make space to keep Jerami Grant.

Jennings / Marshall / Foye
Bazemore / Murray / Stauskas
McDermott / Snell/ Sampson
Nene / Portis / Grant
Okafor / Skal / Embiid


That team would still stink, and they'd still have high draft picks headed their way in the future.  But they'd actually look like an NBA team, with players in the rotation who have experience on winning teams and who have proven, NBA-level skills that a coach can utilize to design plays. 

Plenty of high level talent still on the roster, it's just not getting thrust into major roles right away.  Guys like Skal and Murray would have to earn a starting a role.

[Moranis]

Just a point of perspective.  In the last three seasons Boston has had 19, 22, and 15 players play in at least one game.  Philly is at 23, 25, and 13.  Ainge has made it clear that he will trade anyone at anytime including the face of the franchise (Pierce).  Ainge has yet to sign a meaningful free agent.  For all the crap that Philly gets, shouldn't Ainge also get it.  Why would any meaningful free agent sign in Boston if you know at any moment you might get traded?  Heck even no trade clauses don't matter - see KG.

I've said for a while that there is a very large element of "Trust in the Process / GM" among Celtics fans, nearly as much as with Philly fans.  The main difference is that Ainge is placing his eggs mostly in the "Swing a big trade" basket, as opposed to the "Draft a handful of star prospects" basket, and the Celts are hanging around the middle of the league in the meantime as a result.

If Philly had been able to make a trade at the start of their rebuild process like the one Ainge did with Brooklyn, maybe they would have followed a path more similar to the Celts.

That is kind of ridiculous. I have heard a few people jokingly say in Danny we trust, but aside from that our team has a pretty clear direction.

I mean, we've got a decent team right now with a pile of assets that our amazing coach has cobbled into an actual playoff squad.

But still, relevance in this league means having at least one really amazing player who can win a game pretty much on his own.  We don't have anybody like that.  So the question remains: how are the Celts going to get that player?

Right now, I'd say there are two major possibilities.  Either (a) one of the Nets picks turns into that player or (b) Danny Ainge swings a trade.

Either way, we're hoping on a draft pick or placing our faith in the GM turn a pile of assets into one or more superstars. 

We're left saying "In Danny We Trust."  "Danny will find a way to make a trade."  "Danny will bring us fireworks." "Danny did it once before with KG, he can do it again."

The main difference, like I said, is our team doesn't totally stink in the interim, because Ainge has diversified his assets by collecting players who are actually decent right now as well as draft picks and prospects.


Like Philly, the Celts' roster has been a revolving door over the last few years, and will probably be a revolving door again next summer.  It's starting to look like we might have a clearer picture of a core group -- Thomas, Crowder, Bradley, Sullinger, Smart, Olynyk. 

But if there's a trade opportunity for a major piece, you know Ainge would get rid of any or all of those guys if necessary.  And the rest of the roster?  I wouldn't bet on anybody else on the roster being here this time next season.

That is the point I was getting at.  And obviously being a mid level team has a bit more clout than being a doormat, but I don't think it is that much different really, when you have a GM that has shown everyone is on the trading block (which both Philly and Boston do).  What meaningful free agent is going to sign long term in Boston with Ainge running things?  I mean the odds that a free agent survives the 4 year max contract are very very small based on Ainge's dealings and even if he does he is going to face constant roster turnover.  If Boston doesn't hit on the Brooklyn pick this year, then I can't see how Boston gets that franchise level player without bottoming out itself because Brooklyn will get better this summer diminishing the 17 and 18 Brooklyn picks and there really aren't enough player assets on this team to acquire a franchise talent (without the 16 Brooklyn pick). 

I think it is pretty safe to say that 3 or 4 years from now Boston will be looking up to Philadelphia and it will be that way for a decade unless Boston cashes in the 16 Brooklyn pick at the trade deadline, this summer, or gets a franchise caliber player with that pick.  I just can't see a reasonable path to a title for Boston without that 16 Brooklyn pick or without Boston bottoming out itself (it doesn't need to go overboard like Philly has, but does need to be a bottom five team for a couple of seasons).  Boston just doesn't have the assets to be a real contender for a star player via trade or free agency, especially given Ainge's propensity to trade anyone at anytime.

This seems like a weirdly defeatist attitude given that you personally witnessed Ainge do EXACTLY what you're now saying can't be done.

Mike

No, I witnessed Ainge turn a mediocre team into a title winner with Paul Pierce on the team, a top 5 pick (not a potential one, an actual one), and a player asset (Al Jefferson) significantly better than any player asset on the current team.  The only one of those is potentially possible is the Brooklyn pick turning into a top 5 pick (which looks like it might be, but isn't there yet).  That is what sets the current team apart.  There is no Paul Pierce, there is no Al Jefferson.  That is why I'm not a fan of the outlook without that Brooklyn pick hitting or Ainge finding another real diamond in the rough in the middle of the first round (possible, but I wouldn't bank on it).