Author Topic: Is Mickey the PF to pair next to Sullinger at C?  (Read 5991 times)

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Re: Is Mickey the PF to pair next to Sullinger at C?
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2015, 07:21:55 PM »

Offline MJohnnyboy

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What evidence is there that Mickey is an NBA player? He hasn't played in the NBA, so I can't see where this notion is coming from.

One can hope, sure... I hope he is too. But there's literally zero evidence to suggest he can be a successful NBA player -- not even observations, yet.

yes there is.  Do you think SL, Preseason perfromances means nothing?

Mickey also has had 2 top notch NBDL games. 

CBS also praised for being the best player in a practice session.

Uh yeah. They mean absolutely nothing. Was that a joke? Not one realistic fan takes summer league, pre-season, or NBDL seriously.

If summer league meant something, Kedrick Brown and Joe Forte would be Celtics legends. If pre-season meant something, Jeff Green would be universally loved by Celtics fans. If NBDL meant something, Fab Melo would still be a Celtic. All 3 beasted in those respective leagues and it didn't mean a thing, because they failed to keep up the production when it really counted.

I like Mickey, but there's no evidence that points to him being ready now. Luckily, there is no rush for Mickey to play.

Re: Is Mickey the PF to pair next to Sullinger at C?
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2015, 07:23:53 PM »

Offline MJohnnyboy

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So did Fab Melo -- 2 better games, in fact.

You can take it to the bank, Mickey will be a better NBA player than Fab Melo.    I would bet he gets more blocked shots too.

His point is that Mickey having 2 great games in the NBDL does not mean he's ready. I agree with the sentiment, but to say that Mickey is ready to play now based off of how he's done in the NBA minor league is ridiculous.

Re: Is Mickey the PF to pair next to Sullinger at C?
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2015, 07:41:10 PM »

Offline TheFlex

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Again, I'm not pleading evidence. I'm just fantasizing about the possibilities of what he could be. I know he has a lot of roadblocks that require luck to overcome.


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Re: Is Mickey the PF to pair next to Sullinger at C?
« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2015, 08:05:12 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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So did Fab Melo -- 2 better games, in fact.

You can take it to the bank, Mickey will be a better NBA player than Fab Melo.    I would bet he gets more blocked shots too.

His point is that Mickey having 2 great games in the NBDL does not mean he's ready. I agree with the sentiment, but to say that Mickey is ready to play now based off of how he's done in the NBA minor league is ridiculous.

so you tell me why you think he is not ready then.

Unless we have too many pfs, therefore he is not ready. Which is not a valid reason

How is RJ Hunter ready thus he has be given mins so far.  What is the explanation?

Re: Is Mickey the PF to pair next to Sullinger at C?
« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2015, 08:50:33 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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So did Fab Melo -- 2 better games, in fact.

You can take it to the bank, Mickey will be a better NBA player than Fab Melo.    I would bet he gets more blocked shots too.
Not sure it is possible to be worse.

But all I'm hoping for from Mickey is to become a legitimate rotation guy with a bargain contract. Those are important.

Re: Is Mickey the PF to pair next to Sullinger at C?
« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2015, 09:14:49 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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I think the event that will end up expediting Mickey to extended minutes with the Celtics could very well be Sullinger being moved by the trade deadline. 
the way our bigs our playing, Sully's outperforming all the rest.  there may well be a trade at the deadline but I think it's more likely Lee, Zeller or KO are on the move.

Re: Is Mickey the PF to pair next to Sullinger at C?
« Reply #21 on: November 18, 2015, 09:55:56 PM »

Offline ssspence

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Sullinger at C? Get serious. He's too fat to dunk.
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Re: Is Mickey the PF to pair next to Sullinger at C?
« Reply #22 on: November 18, 2015, 10:53:45 PM »

Offline MJohnnyboy

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So did Fab Melo -- 2 better games, in fact.

You can take it to the bank, Mickey will be a better NBA player than Fab Melo.    I would bet he gets more blocked shots too.

His point is that Mickey having 2 great games in the NBDL does not mean he's ready. I agree with the sentiment, but to say that Mickey is ready to play now based off of how he's done in the NBA minor league is ridiculous.

so you tell me why you think he is not ready then.

Unless we have too many pfs, therefore he is not ready. Which is not a valid reason

How is RJ Hunter ready thus he has be given mins so far.  What is the explanation?

Triboy, Brad is not a moron. You believe that. I believe that. If Mickey was ready to play now, then he wouldn't be in Maine playing for the Red Claws. He'd be on the Celtics active roster and would be in the rotation. Because he not only is not on the active roster, but is also playing on the Red Claws at the moment, that gives me the impression that the Celtics clearly don't think he is ready to play NBA minutes yet. If the Celtics don't think he's ready, then I don't think he's ready. Unless you know something that that Brad Stevens doesn't, Jordan Mickey will be playing mostly in Maine pending injury because the Celtics believe he's not ready.

It's for that same reason that RJ Hunter is getting minutes right now. Though I must say I am confused by how you phrased the question. ??? I think what you're asking is why is Hunter getting minutes and Mickey isn't, and it's simple. Hunter has shown to Brad in practice that he is ready to play NBA minutes. Again, if Mickey showed in practice what Hunter has shown Brad, he would be playing for the Celtics right now instead of the Red Claws, but he hasn't.

I'm actually kinda of puzzled as to why you think the influx of bigs on this roster is not a valid reason as why to Mickey's not playing, because a logical retort for you as to why Mickey is not playing would be because of the influx of bigs on this roster and not because of lack of readiness. I personally think its both and why? Because Sully, Johnson, Lee, Jerebko, and Olynyk have all proven they can handle NBA minutes right now. If Mickey could prove to Brad that he's on par or better than those guys, he would be getting their minutes, but he clearly hasn't, so no minutes for the Golden Boy.

Now, like you, I am high on Jordan Mickey. I too thought he was a great pick and see a great future in him, but to claim that he's ready now because he played well in leagues that are not indicative of anything is putting too high expectations on a rookie that is currently the 6th big on the depth chart. And if Mickey was THAT good right now, why did the Celtics sign Amir Johnson? Why did the Celtics trade for David Lee? Why did the Celtics re-sign Jonas Jerebko? If Mickey was as ready as you think he is, the Celtics wouldn't have made all of those moves to acquire more bigs.

Seth Curry played great in both the SL and the NBDL, how's he doing again?

Re: Is Mickey the PF to pair next to Sullinger at C?
« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2015, 11:03:20 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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So did Fab Melo -- 2 better games, in fact.

You can take it to the bank, Mickey will be a better NBA player than Fab Melo.    I would bet he gets more blocked shots too.

His point is that Mickey having 2 great games in the NBDL does not mean he's ready. I agree with the sentiment, but to say that Mickey is ready to play now based off of how he's done in the NBA minor league is ridiculous.

so you tell me why you think he is not ready then.

Unless we have too many pfs, therefore he is not ready. Which is not a valid reason

How is RJ Hunter ready thus he has be given mins so far.  What is the explanation?

Triboy, Brad is not a moron. You believe that. I believe that. If Mickey was ready to play now, then he wouldn't be in Maine playing for the Red Claws. He'd be on the Celtics active roster and would be in the rotation. Because he not only is not on the active roster, but is also playing on the Red Claws at the moment, that gives me the impression that the Celtics clearly don't think he is ready to play NBA minutes yet. If the Celtics don't think he's ready, then I don't think he's ready. Unless you know something that that Brad Stevens doesn't, Jordan Mickey will be playing mostly in Maine pending injury because the Celtics believe he's not ready.

It's for that same reason that RJ Hunter is getting minutes right now. Though I must say I am confused by how you phrased the question. ??? I think what you're asking is why is Hunter getting minutes and Mickey isn't, and it's simple. Hunter has shown to Brad in practice that he is ready to play NBA minutes. Again, if Mickey showed in practice what Hunter has shown Brad, he would be playing for the Celtics right now instead of the Red Claws, but he hasn't.

I'm actually kinda of puzzled as to why you think the influx of bigs on this roster is not a valid reason as why to Mickey's not playing, because a logical retort for you as to why Mickey is not playing would be because of the influx of bigs on this roster and not because of lack of readiness. I personally think its both and why? Because Sully, Johnson, Lee, Jerebko, and Olynyk have all proven they can handle NBA minutes right now. If Mickey could prove to Brad that he's on par or better than those guys, he would be getting their minutes, but he clearly hasn't, so no minutes for the Golden Boy.

Now, like you, I am high on Jordan Mickey. I too thought he was a great pick and see a great future in him, but to claim that he's ready now because he played well in leagues that are not indicative of anything is putting too high expectations on a rookie that is currently the 6th big on the depth chart. And if Mickey was THAT good right now, why did the Celtics sign Amir Johnson? Why did the Celtics trade for David Lee? Why did the Celtics re-sign Jonas Jerebko? If Mickey was as ready as you think he is, the Celtics wouldn't have made all of those moves to acquire more bigs.

Seth Curry played great in both the SL and the NBDL, how's he doing again?

Why don't you factor in Danny gave Mickey pretty much a 1st round contract ?

You are sort of running in circles and are stating that Mickey is not getting mins because there are "vets" ahead of him. Not because he is not capable.

Hunter got mins because AB was out a few games ago. Do you see him getting much run these days? 

I know CBS knows what he is doing, but there is also this "got to give due to the vets" aspect.

Now asking me if I agree with this is another topic.   Danny acquired these vets and they are getting paid big bucks.  Did he know Mickey was going to be this decent? probably not and took the safe way by grabbing guys like Lee and keeping Jerebko.   Mickey is already a much better defender than Lee and provides shot blocking that Jerebko can't.   He can also drive by bigger guys and finish around the rim in comparison.

I understand the "game" that we are paying vets money and can't play the rookie.  But to say Mickey is not ready is false.   I have confidence if given a chance, he can contribute and not be a negative on the court.   

Re: Is Mickey the PF to pair next to Sullinger at C?
« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2015, 11:06:22 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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btw lots of guys like Seth Curry in the NBDL.  This is also not about slo mo James Young scoring 30 in the NBDL.   Mickey has elite athleticism/explosiveness/quickness that not only helps him in the NBDL , but also I bet translates to the NBA game.  Add 240 pounds, 7'3 wingspan, 37 max vert leap, IQ, shot blocking, timing, underrated scoring ability and rarely turning the ball over. 

Re: Is Mickey the PF to pair next to Sullinger at C?
« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2015, 12:08:47 AM »

Offline MJohnnyboy

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Why don't you factor in Danny gave Mickey pretty much a 1st round contract ?

And by "first round contract" you mean he gave him a luxurious contract for a 2nd rounder? Sure he gave him a rich contract for the spot, but compared to a first rounder, not really. Sullinger and the others still make about 1.5 to 2X as much as Mickey does. That's not first-rounder contract.

And just because Danny gave him that contract does not spell out "This kid is going to be a contributor right away". It spells out "This kid is going to be a good contributor for us down the road." I am NOT arguing whether or not Mickey is going to be good, triboy. I believe he will, but right now, is he going to be a contributor, nope, and I feel like I've explained why.

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You are sort of running in circles and are stating that Mickey is not getting mins because there are "vets" ahead of him. Not because he is not capable.

I am saying BECAUSE the vets are playing in front of him shows that Mickey isn't capable. If Mickey was as good as you say he is, Brad would play the kid, but he's not playing. Hence, brad clearly sees the vets as better right now. Regardless of how you feel. And I trust Brad's judgment more than I trust yours.

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Hunter got mins because AB was out a few games ago. Do you see him getting much run these days?

I don't know. It's not up to me. It's up to the coach. And Hunter wasn't perfect but he impressed me at times. See if I made a claim right now that Hunter's the Celtics future shooting guard, then guess what? There would be more basis for my claim for Hunter than yours for Mickey because Hunter's actually played NBA minutes. Mickey has not.

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I know CBS knows what he is doing, but there is also this "got to give due to the vets" aspect.

Oh really? Is that why he played Gerald Wallace so much last year?

Quote
Now asking me if I agree with this is another topic.   Danny acquired these vets and they are getting paid big bucks.  Did he know Mickey was going to be this decent? probably not and took the safe way by grabbing guys like Lee and keeping Jerebko.   Mickey is already a much better defender than Lee and provides shot blocking that Jerebko can't.   He can also drive by bigger guys and finish around the rim in comparison.

But what proof is there that Mickey is that guy that you say he is? You have none other than your gut feeling. I've already explained to you that SL, pre-season, and NBDL mean nothing because scrubs have dominated those leagues and have done nothing. There is no proof that Mickey is better than anyone and it goes back to my original point that if he was, the coach would play him. You even told me once that if the rookies were good enough, Brad would play them.

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I understand the "game" that we are paying vets money and can't play the rookie.  But to say Mickey is not ready is false.   I have confidence if given a chance, he can contribute and not be a negative on the court.

Correction, that could be false, but there is nothing that proves that Mickey is ready now. All of what you are saying strictly-opinion based. The matter of fact is, Jordan Mickey has played almost the entirety of the season in Maine. It's abundantly clear you put stock into SL and pre-season. I put stock into what happens in the regular season, and so far, the regular season has shown me that the Celtics don't think Mickey is ready. I'm glad that you're confident in the kid, but until I truly see that from him during real NBA minutes, I'll hold my breath.

I want you to know that I absolutely believe Jordan Mickey was a great pick and that he definitely has a future on the Celtics, but I don't believe that we will see much of what he can do this year. Not because he doesn't have the potential to be good, but because at the moment, we have bigs on the team who are more experienced and can do more for the team now.

Re: Is Mickey the PF to pair next to Sullinger at C?
« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2015, 12:14:27 AM »

Offline Monkhouse

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No.

If Mickey was the presumed heir for our starting PF, then he would've been playing starting minutes by now.
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Re: Is Mickey the PF to pair next to Sullinger at C?
« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2015, 12:28:51 AM »

Offline KeepRondo

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The rotations seems pretty set. I'm not sure anyone's gonna crack the rotation without an injury happening.

Re: Is Mickey the PF to pair next to Sullinger at C?
« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2015, 12:42:54 AM »

Offline trickybilly

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No.

If Mickey was the presumed heir for our starting PF, then he would've been playing starting minutes by now.

Danny is no doubt looking at trade options for the 4, and in the meantime he needs to keep Lee and Sully's (and KO, but to a lesser extent, because I think celtics brass think he is still improving) trade value high, in case a deal becomes feasible. They will look at Mickey's development in the D-league though and if he stands up sooner rather than later, they may be forced to get him ready for a role if Sully and KO plateau. It is a difficult scenario anyway you look at it, especially given the unpredictability of the development of big men in the NBA.

I really like Whiteside by the way. I bet Danny is sniffing around there (along with a LOT of other GMs)..
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Re: Is Mickey the PF to pair next to Sullinger at C?
« Reply #29 on: November 19, 2015, 01:10:31 AM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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If Sully were to be traded, it'd still be unlikely for Mickey to play. And if he did, it'd probably still be less often than RJ ... even with healthy AB back. He's that much of an unknown. triboy, what percentage of 4s do you think would not eat him alive in the post? And with that, how much does his weak side shot blocking help?

And how would he not be a liability offensively? He's a tweener that hasn't proven he has an effective means of scoring in the NBA. For as much as we've clowned on Lee (deservedly so), he quietly gave us nice production off the bench tonight. Mickey... there's no telling what he would do given minutes -- we don't know, CBS doesn't know, and Mickey doesn't know... because he hasn't played NBA basketball yet.

I grant you the argument that he may develop into an NBA rotation player. If I had to guess, I would agree... but I'd be guessing based on instinct, nothing more. That's the point of the conversation. Mickey isn't starting today, tomorrow, and by most odds... probably never for the Celtics. But who knows? I hope he develops as well as you project. Though again, we're shooting in the dark.

I similarly voiced high hopes for RJ very early on -- he should be a "fixture" on the roster because I think he's a guy that plays better when surrounded by better players (like Rondo). I got flamed by some, and yet ... he has stuck with the roster. So I can meet you there. But RJ had also showed NBA-ready traits -- high BBIQ, he has good size for an NBA 2, and he was drafted with an NBA skill -- which, ironically, has been his weakness thus far. Can't hit the broad side of the barn. He's been seeing minutes (first off the bench in preseason, dating back) because of his BBIQ, fundamentals (especially defensive), and ability to space the floor whether he's hitting or not. Major differences there between the 2.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2015, 01:16:00 AM by tarheelsxxiii »
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