What do you think happens in Orlando? Frontrunner for Cousins?

[oldtype]

So speaking of high comedy did anyone watch Marcus Smart spank the crud out of Russell Westbrook tonight?

The Thunder are the best 4th quarter scoring team in the league....they were held to 11 tonight. Gee I wonder who had something to do with that.

"One outlier game doesn't mean that much. Gordon/Exum/Randle/Payton still have higher upside for... reasons."

[Eja117]

So speaking of high comedy did anyone watch Marcus Smart spank the crud out of Russell Westbrook tonight?

The Thunder are the best 4th quarter scoring team in the league....they were held to 11 tonight. Gee I wonder who had something to do with that.

"One outlier game doesn't mean that much. Gordon/Exum/Randle/Payton still have higher upside for... reasons."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UknYiGBjJs

Larbrd everyone! He'll be here all week!

[notthebowler]

Really don't understand what Gordon has done to be considered "higher trade value" than Smart other than being drafted two slots earlier and not playing for the Celtics.

Don't you understand how basketball works?  If a player gets a lot of SportsCenter highlight dunks, he is a future star. Long wingspan + highlight dunks = hall of fame. To a certain extent, you can tell by reading this board the general age group of each poster, and more specifically, who spends a lot of time playing NBA video games.

Great athletes with marginal skill are a dime a dozen- the D-League and even division 1 college basketball are full of them. And no, making a dozen 3s against summer league competition does not erase the entire history of Gordon's playing career and make him a guy who has both great skill and great athleticism.  He may possibly become as good a combo forward as Jerebko, but I wouldn't bet on that at this point.

[oldtype]

Really don't understand what Gordon has done to be considered "higher trade value" than Smart other than being drafted two slots earlier and not playing for the Celtics.

Don't you understand how basketball works?  If a player gets a lot of SportsCenter highlight dunks, he is a future star. Long wingspan + highlight dunks = hall of fame. To a certain extent, you can tell by reading this board the general age group of each poster, and more specifically, who spends a lot of time playing NBA video games.

Great athletes with marginal skill are a dime a dozen- the D-League and even division 1 college basketball are full of them. And no, making a dozen 3s against summer league competition does not erase the entire history of Gordon's playing career and make him a guy who has both great skill and great athleticism.  He may possibly become as good a combo forward as Jerebko, but I wouldn't bet on that at this point.

I wouldn't go quite that far, but if nothing else Smart has proven that his floor is competent starter. Gordon hasn't done that yet.

[PhoSita]

LarBrd33 often demonstrates that he knows NBA basketball, and he writes his posts well, when he tries. 

That said, we all need to remember that he posts things to get a reaction.  He takes positions that he is sure will get people riled up.

This "the Nets pick isn't worth that much guys!" thing is just the latest in a long line of response-baiting campaigns by LarBrd.   So far, another resounding success.

[crimson_stallion]

Jokes aside,  Aaron Gordon absolutely has more trade value than Marcus Smart.  Sorry to break it to you.

"Absolute: a value or principle which is regarded as universally valid"

I love how you use the term "absolutely" here, because I would love to see what exactly you are going off in order to convince yourself that Smart is 'universally regarded' as having less trade value than Gordon.

Is this because you have surveyed the GM of every team in the NBA, and every single one of them told you they value Gordon over Smart? 

Or is it because you found such a survey already conducted, with the results already publicised?

Or is it because you are just really close personal friends with all of the GM's in the NBA, and every one of them has told you that they consider Gordon more valuable?

Just curious, because last time I checked Aaron Gordon was struggling to earn 20 minutes a game playing for a (at the current rates) lottery bound Magic, while Marcus Smart is playing 30+ minutes a game as a key starter on the playoff bound Celtics.

I mean it's not like you said "In my opinion.." or "I think..." or something.  No, you said "absolutely" which indicates a certain fact that is without debate.

But anyhow I just assumed you must have feedback from NBA GM's on the subject, since it's clearly not universal to the people here (who seem to almost unanimously disagree).

[PhoSita]

Jokes aside,  Aaron Gordon absolutely has more trade value than Marcus Smart.  Sorry to break it to you.

"Absolute: a value or principle which is regarded as universally valid"

I love how you use the term "absolutely" here, because I would love to see what exactly you are going off in order to convince yourself that Smart is 'universally regarded' as having less trade value than Gordon.

Is this because you have surveyed the GM of every team in the NBA, and every single one of them told you they value Gordon over Smart? 

Or is it because you found such a survey already conducted, with the results already publicised?

Or is it because you are just really close personal friends with all of the GM's in the NBA, and every one of them has told you that they consider Gordon more valuable?

Just curious, because last time I checked Aaron Gordon was struggling to earn 20 minutes a game playing for a (at the current rates) lottery bound Magic, while Marcus Smart is playing 30+ minutes a game as a key starter on the playoff bound Celtics.

I mean it's not like you said "In my opinion.." or "I think..." or something.  No, you said "absolutely" which indicates a certain fact that is without debate.

But anyhow I just assumed you must have feedback from NBA GM's on the subject, since it's clearly not universal to the people here (who seem to almost unanimously disagree).

I already answered your questions -- it's because LarBrd33 writes the reference book on trade value.  He is THE authority on these matters.

Why are we still discussing this?

[LarBrd33]

Realistically I'd take any of the Rockets bigs (21 year old Harrell, 21 year old Cappela, Demo, and T Jones) over A Gordon any day and I would think this would make a lot more sense for the Kings

Jokes aside,  Aaron Gordon absolutely has more trade value than Marcus Smart.  Sorry to break it to you.  Smart vs Hezonja is a more interesting debate....   That's not to say Hezonja is outplaying Smart, because he clearly hasn't had the minutes to do anything of significance yet in the NBA...  but whether or not Marcus Smart after 1+ seasons of disappointing play has the same trade value of the most recent #5 pick is something worthy of debating. 

Fwiw, all three of those assets (Gordon, Hezonja, Smart) have more trade value than the Nets pick at this point.  As much as overexcited fans here want to paint it as a guaranteed Ben Simmons ticket, we have no idea where that pick will land at this point.   As remote as it seems, there's still 70+ games for brooklyn to mesh and go on a bit of a win streak.  There's still trades they could make.   A lot can happen.  Right now, there's no rational reason that pick would have more trade value than any of those 3 players.

Im sorry but i just cant stand your negative attitude towards any Celtic or Celtic asset. There is no way gordon has more value than the nets pick.

I've held my tongue long enough, I'm sick to death of Larbrd33 and his ridiculous amount of negativity, there is constructive criticism and there is just negative arrogance. I don't comment on this blog because of his attitude as its like having an intelligent argument with a 16 y.o Lakers fan, if you love Philly and their disgusting tanking regime so much join one of their blogs where you can comment on lose after lose.

I'm sure the lack of traffic on this blog is directly attributed to Larbrd33 as I too have had my fill.

Aaron Gordon plays for Orlando.  Look him up.   My guess is this is a misunderstanding. 

I've repeatedly said that Marcus Smart is the most valuable asset on the Celtics.  He had a great game tonight that offers a glimpse as to why that is.  Despite his underwhelming play since being drafted, he's an excellent defender and the potential still is there.   Personally, I think he's most likely to end up being something along the lines of Tony Allen on defense and Rodney Stuckey on offense, but you can't rule out the possibility he does more.  He's turning 22 in a few months... he's got at least a year of potentially significant developing left to do (yeah I get that players reach their peak 27-30, but studies show that statistically they usually make the leap before age 24).

Aaron Gordon is a better asset, though.  He was taken two picks ahead of him for a reason and nothing has really changed from that standpoint.   Neither Smart or Gordon is a significant player in the NBA right now, but Gordon has more potential.  And yes, I'm aware Marcus Smart played like a star for a few summer league games and played like a star tonight.   Gordon dominated summer league and has been brilliant at times this season as well.  He just turned 20.  Kid has the potential to be a two-way beast.

Both have more trade value than the Brooklyn pick at this point.  If you'd trade either one of those guys for the Laker's 2016 pick, you're a fool... same goes for the Brooklyn pick.  Do the math.

And yes, I'm aware that I could solve a lot of my problems if I prefaced everything I said with, "in my opinion".  It should go without saying... people can disagree with me.  I'm fine with that. 

[jdz101]

LarBrd33 often demonstrates that he knows NBA basketball, and he writes his posts well, when he tries. 

That said, we all need to remember that he posts things to get a reaction.  He takes positions that he is sure will get people riled up.

This "the Nets pick isn't worth that much guys!" thing is just the latest in a long line of response-baiting campaigns by LarBrd.   So far, another resounding success.

Mmm his bored baiting generally just gets met by our bored opposition. I think saying his schtick gets people riled up is slightly overblown. The fanbase is bored. This team tries its butt off but we're all just waiting for a trade or these Brooklyn picks to put us in to somewhat 'contender' status again.

[jdz101]

AB, Smart, Young, choice of Sully/Kelly +
BK 2016 first
DA 2016 first
Ph 2016 second
BK 2018 first


Isnt that better than Vuc & Hejonga? 
If ur gonna roll dice, 8 chances are better than 2

In one word: Overpay.

[Celtics18]

Realistically I'd take any of the Rockets bigs (21 year old Harrell, 21 year old Cappela, Demo, and T Jones) over A Gordon any day and I would think this would make a lot more sense for the Kings

Jokes aside,  Aaron Gordon absolutely has more trade value than Marcus Smart.  Sorry to break it to you.  Smart vs Hezonja is a more interesting debate....   That's not to say Hezonja is outplaying Smart, because he clearly hasn't had the minutes to do anything of significance yet in the NBA...  but whether or not Marcus Smart after 1+ seasons of disappointing play has the same trade value of the most recent #5 pick is something worthy of debating. 

Fwiw, all three of those assets (Gordon, Hezonja, Smart) have more trade value than the Nets pick at this point.  As much as overexcited fans here want to paint it as a guaranteed Ben Simmons ticket, we have no idea where that pick will land at this point.   As remote as it seems, there's still 70+ games for brooklyn to mesh and go on a bit of a win streak.  There's still trades they could make.   A lot can happen.  Right now, there's no rational reason that pick would have more trade value than any of those 3 players.

Im sorry but i just cant stand your negative attitude towards any Celtic or Celtic asset. There is no way gordon has more value than the nets pick.

I've held my tongue long enough, I'm sick to death of Larbrd33 and his ridiculous amount of negativity, there is constructive criticism and there is just negative arrogance. I don't comment on this blog because of his attitude as its like having an intelligent argument with a 16 y.o Lakers fan, if you love Philly and their disgusting tanking regime so much join one of their blogs where you can comment on lose after lose.

I'm sure the lack of traffic on this blog is directly attributed to Larbrd33 as I too have had my fill.

Aaron Gordon plays for Orlando.  Look him up.   My guess is this is a misunderstanding. 

I've repeatedly said that Marcus Smart is the most valuable asset on the Celtics.  He had a great game tonight that offers a glimpse as to why that is.  Despite his underwhelming play since being drafted, he's an excellent defender and the potential still is there.   Personally, I think he's most likely to end up being something along the lines of Tony Allen on defense and Rodney Stuckey on offense, but you can't rule out the possibility he does more.  He's turning 22 in a few months... he's got at least a year of potentially significant developing left to do (yeah I get that players reach their peak 27-30, but studies show that statistically they usually make the leap before age 24).

Aaron Gordon is a better asset, though.  He was taken two picks ahead of him for a reason and nothing has really changed from that standpoint.   Neither Smart or Gordon is a significant player in the NBA right now, but Gordon has more potential.  And yes, I'm aware Marcus Smart played like a star for a few summer league games and played like a star tonight.   Gordon dominated summer league and has been brilliant at times this season as well.  He just turned 20.  Kid has the potential to be a two-way beast.

Both have more trade value than the Brooklyn pick at this point.  If you'd trade either one of those guys for the Laker's 2016 pick, you're a fool... same goes for the Brooklyn pick.  Do the math.

And yes, I'm aware that I could solve a lot of my problems if I prefaced everything I said with, "in my opinion".  It should go without saying... people can disagree with me.  I'm fine with that.

I know everyone is jumping down your throat here, but to add to the pig pile, you offer almost nothing in support of your assertion that Aaron Gordon is a better asset than Marcus Smart other than the fact that he was picked a couple of spots higher in the draft.  That's not all that convincing. 

[LarBrd33]

Fwiw, all three of those assets (Gordon, Hezonja, Smart) have more trade value than the Nets pick at this point.

For a seemingly intelligent guy who apparently puts some thought into his posts, you throw out some of the most nonsensical stuff.  There isn't a competent GM in the league who would take any of those players over an unprotected 1st round pick that looks destined for the upper reaches of the lottery.  Please name the team that would rather have one of those players than the Nets pick.

As for the players, the better teams would pick Smart because he's more likely to contribute to wins now.  The worse teams would pick Gordon for the higher upside.  Either would go before Hezonja.

Mike

So I take it you'd trade any one of those guys for the unprotected Pelicans or Lakers picks, because those are both even with the Brooklyn pick right now...

Yeah, I get Ben Simmons is the gem here, but if the season ended today that Brooklyn pick would have the 3rd best odds in the draft... which means it could fall anywhere from 1-6 with the highest probability of landing 5th.  You'd rather have a pick with the most likely odds of ending 5th than having Gordon, Mario or Smart?   Who you taking with that gem of a pick?  Dragan Bender?... Jamal Murray?  ... And of course all this is based on the idea that the pick remains as juicy as it is over the remaining 70+ games of the season.   That seems like a bad bet to me.  Far better with any one of those prospects than a pick that still has a shot (though as remote as it may seem) to end up late lotto. 

[adam.jones614]

Fwiw, all three of those assets (Gordon, Hezonja, Smart) have more trade value than the Nets pick at this point.

For a seemingly intelligent guy who apparently puts some thought into his posts, you throw out some of the most nonsensical stuff.  There isn't a competent GM in the league who would take any of those players over an unprotected 1st round pick that looks destined for the upper reaches of the lottery.  Please name the team that would rather have one of those players than the Nets pick.

As for the players, the better teams would pick Smart because he's more likely to contribute to wins now.  The worse teams would pick Gordon for the higher upside.  Either would go before Hezonja.

Mike

So I take it you'd trade any one of those guys for the unprotected Pelicans or Lakers picks, because those are both even with the Brooklyn pick right now...

Yeah, I get Ben Simmons is the gem here, but if the season ended today that Brooklyn pick would have the 3rd best odds in the draft... which means it could fall anywhere from 1-6 with the highest probability of landing 5th.  You'd rather have a pick with the most likely odds of ending 5th than having Gordon, Mario or Smart?   Who you taking with that gem of a pick?  Dragan Bender?... Jamal Murray?  ... And of course all this is based on the idea that the pick remains as juicy as it is over the remaining 70+ games of the season.   That's a bad bet, my friend.  Far better with any one of those prospects than a pick that still has a shot (though as remote as it may seem) to end up late lotto.

Big difference there being the Lakers pick is top 3 protected, and the Pelicans are injured and will improve, the Nets almost certainly will not. Id take the pick over Gordon & Hezonja but probably not Smart at this point. That being because I think Smart is the better player. And before you call me a homer, Smart is who I wanted on draft night, I still think Gordon is going to be a giant bust

[LarBrd33]

Realistically I'd take any of the Rockets bigs (21 year old Harrell, 21 year old Cappela, Demo, and T Jones) over A Gordon any day and I would think this would make a lot more sense for the Kings

Jokes aside,  Aaron Gordon absolutely has more trade value than Marcus Smart.  Sorry to break it to you.  Smart vs Hezonja is a more interesting debate....   That's not to say Hezonja is outplaying Smart, because he clearly hasn't had the minutes to do anything of significance yet in the NBA...  but whether or not Marcus Smart after 1+ seasons of disappointing play has the same trade value of the most recent #5 pick is something worthy of debating. 

Fwiw, all three of those assets (Gordon, Hezonja, Smart) have more trade value than the Nets pick at this point.  As much as overexcited fans here want to paint it as a guaranteed Ben Simmons ticket, we have no idea where that pick will land at this point.   As remote as it seems, there's still 70+ games for brooklyn to mesh and go on a bit of a win streak.  There's still trades they could make.   A lot can happen.  Right now, there's no rational reason that pick would have more trade value than any of those 3 players.

Im sorry but i just cant stand your negative attitude towards any Celtic or Celtic asset. There is no way gordon has more value than the nets pick.

I've held my tongue long enough, I'm sick to death of Larbrd33 and his ridiculous amount of negativity, there is constructive criticism and there is just negative arrogance. I don't comment on this blog because of his attitude as its like having an intelligent argument with a 16 y.o Lakers fan, if you love Philly and their disgusting tanking regime so much join one of their blogs where you can comment on lose after lose.

I'm sure the lack of traffic on this blog is directly attributed to Larbrd33 as I too have had my fill.

Aaron Gordon plays for Orlando.  Look him up.   My guess is this is a misunderstanding. 

I've repeatedly said that Marcus Smart is the most valuable asset on the Celtics.  He had a great game tonight that offers a glimpse as to why that is.  Despite his underwhelming play since being drafted, he's an excellent defender and the potential still is there.   Personally, I think he's most likely to end up being something along the lines of Tony Allen on defense and Rodney Stuckey on offense, but you can't rule out the possibility he does more.  He's turning 22 in a few months... he's got at least a year of potentially significant developing left to do (yeah I get that players reach their peak 27-30, but studies show that statistically they usually make the leap before age 24).

Aaron Gordon is a better asset, though.  He was taken two picks ahead of him for a reason and nothing has really changed from that standpoint.   Neither Smart or Gordon is a significant player in the NBA right now, but Gordon has more potential.  And yes, I'm aware Marcus Smart played like a star for a few summer league games and played like a star tonight.   Gordon dominated summer league and has been brilliant at times this season as well.  He just turned 20.  Kid has the potential to be a two-way beast.

Both have more trade value than the Brooklyn pick at this point.  If you'd trade either one of those guys for the Laker's 2016 pick, you're a fool... same goes for the Brooklyn pick.  Do the math.

And yes, I'm aware that I could solve a lot of my problems if I prefaced everything I said with, "in my opinion".  It should go without saying... people can disagree with me.  I'm fine with that.

I know everyone is jumping down your throat here, but to add to the pig pile, you offer almost nothing in support of your assertion that Aaron Gordon is a better asset than Marcus Smart other than the fact that he was picked a couple of spots higher in the draft.  That's not all that convincing.

I don't think it requires supporting evidence.  *IN MY OPINION*, Gordon is a better asset than Smart.  Okafor, Towns, Wiggins, and Parker are better assets as well.  I'd be curious to see what an unbias group of NBA fans would say on the subject, though.  I see Gordon as having more trade value than Smart.  YOu can use stats to debate who is better right now... that's not my argument. 

Once again, I think people confuse my realism with a hate of Celtic players.  I never swayed from my opinion that LeBron James was better than Paul Pierce.  It didn't make me a Pierce hater.  I never swayed from my opinion that Chris Paul was better than Rajon Rondo... it didn't make me a Rondo hater.   Marcus Smart is our best asset... I don't think there's any question.  The Brooklyn pick CAN be a better asset a half-year from now if it ends up falling #1 in the lotto.  But while I admit Marcus Smart is our best asset, I'm not going to ignore the fact that other teams have better assets.  Wiggins, Towns, Parker... all better assets.   We tried (and failed) to offer Smart + additional 1sts to get Okafor.  I can't pretend like Smart is a better asset than Okafor just because Smart's a Boston Celtic. 

Nonetheless, however you feel about the trade value of Smart vs Orlando's assets... I still think Orlando is an intriguing young team with lots of options.   I'll be interested to see what they do with those options.

[nickagneta]

Fwiw, all three of those assets (Gordon, Hezonja, Smart) have more trade value than the Nets pick at this point.

For a seemingly intelligent guy who apparently puts some thought into his posts, you throw out some of the most nonsensical stuff.  There isn't a competent GM in the league who would take any of those players over an unprotected 1st round pick that looks destined for the upper reaches of the lottery.  Please name the team that would rather have one of those players than the Nets pick.

As for the players, the better teams would pick Smart because he's more likely to contribute to wins now.  The worse teams would pick Gordon for the higher upside.  Either would go before Hezonja.

Mike

So I take it you'd trade any one of those guys for the unprotected Pelicans or Lakers picks, because those are both even with the Brooklyn pick right now...

Yeah, I get Ben Simmons is the gem here, but if the season ended today that Brooklyn pick would have the 3rd best odds in the draft... which means it could fall anywhere from 1-6 with the highest probability of landing 5th.  You'd rather have a pick with the most likely odds of ending 5th than having Gordon, Mario or Smart?   Who you taking with that gem of a pick?  Dragan Bender?... Jamal Murray?  ... And of course all this is based on the idea that the pick remains as juicy as it is over the remaining 70+ games of the season.   That seems like a bad bet to me.  Far better with any one of those prospects than a pick that still has a shot (though as remote as it may seem) to end up late lotto.

For a guy supposedly so well versed on player's valuonce they enter the NBA, you seem to have a very poor handle on the value of players coming into the NBA. Please enlighten me why Smart, Gordon and Hezonja, players chosen 4, 6, and 5 respectively in their drafts and none of which were ever confused with having the potential to be possible cornerstone talents