What do you think happens in Orlando? Frontrunner for Cousins?

[chambers]

Are you telling me Boston could beat an offer of Vucevic + Hezonja for Cousins?

Vucevic makes a bunch of money and he's a little bit of an odd fit in the modern NBA.   Hezonja is yet to show much at the NBA level.

Rebuilding teams love picks. They like to take THEIR guy.


So yes, I do think the Celts could beat the magic with an offer centered around the Nets pick, provided there's a clearer sense of where the pick will land, ie top 5.

All of that said, I think the best offer to Sacramento would have a young star going back their way.

This is why the Wizards with an offer of Beal and Porter plus filler really seems like the best plausible offer, to me.

FIrst, I don't think Vivek/Vlade think they are "rebuilding".  If they are forced to move Cousins, my guess is they'll want talent back... not draft picks.

Second, our draft picks aren't as valuable as people think.  If we could have traded a dozen of those late 1sts we own to move up and take Hezonja/Winslow, we would have. 

All this could change if Brooklyn continues to struggle and we end up drafting Ben Simmons.   Ben Simmons + Marcus SMart might beat an offer of Vucevic and Mario.

Ben Simmons and Smart would blow Vucevic and Mario out of the water.
They will want a shot at a transcendent player if they're sending out their transcendent player.

If you were a GM would you really want Vucevic and Heznojia over the #1 pick and Smart?

Hell no.

[adam.jones614]

Are you telling me Boston could beat an offer of Vucevic + Hezonja for Cousins?

Vucevic makes a bunch of money and he's a little bit of an odd fit in the modern NBA.   Hezonja is yet to show much at the NBA level.

Rebuilding teams love picks. They like to take THEIR guy.


So yes, I do think the Celts could beat the magic with an offer centered around the Nets pick, provided there's a clearer sense of where the pick will land, ie top 5.

All of that said, I think the best offer to Sacramento would have a young star going back their way.

This is why the Wizards with an offer of Beal and Porter plus filler really seems like the best plausible offer, to me.

FIrst, I don't think Vivek/Vlade think they are "rebuilding".  If they are forced to move Cousins, my guess is they'll want talent back... not draft picks.

Second, our draft picks aren't as valuable as people think.  If we could have traded a dozen of those late 1sts we own to move up and take Hezonja/Winslow, we would have. 

All this could change if Brooklyn continues to struggle and we end up drafting Ben Simmons.   Ben Simmons + Marcus SMart might beat an offer of Vucevic and Mario.

It's important to keep in mind too that the Kings in a desperate move to clear space traded the right to switch picks with Philly this year. While that probably doesn't amount to a ton, they have officially given themselves a 0% chance to get the #1 pick(most likely Simmons). Maybe if they continue to struggle as do the Nets they decide they want a crack at 2 top five picks in this years draft and a chance to get the #1 pick. With the new arena opening and what's looking like a no win scenario with the current group, 2 top 5 picks is not a bad way to start a new era.

[hpantazo]

What about the Bulls? They could trade Rose and Gibson for Cousins, and we know how Vlade and Vivek tend to operate, they would probably got for that deal.

Imo, if the Celtics land a top 3 pick with the Nets pick, then we should keep it and build around Simmons/Skal/Ingram, Smart and whoever we deem worthy of the rest of our young guys. Then we can add another lottery level talent in the next draft or two between our picks and the Nets picks.

[thirstyboots18]

I know there are many here who think Rondo is worse than useless.  I don't agree, and at this point, I think Cousins will stay with the Kings.  He and Rondo seem to be meshing.

[hpantazo]

I know there are many here who think Rondo is worse than useless.  I don't agree, and at this point, I think Cousins will stay with the Kings.  He and Rondo seem to be meshing.

Rudy Gay is fitting in well with them too, and WCS will just continue to get better and cover for Cousins on defense. I think Bellineli was a huge, underrated pickup for them. He provides the shooting and spacing you need when Rondo and WCS are on the floor.

[Eja117]

I don't see any one piece here that (a) George Karl would go ga-ga for or (b) is a really top shelf A+ asset.

My instinct is that whoever trades for Cousins will need one of those two things.

Also I'd think that Orlando would hesitate before trading for another moody, willful center who will probably just leave them in a couple years for nothing.

So maybe Aaron Gordon would be the centerpiece... since I see Marcus Smart as Boston's best asset and I rank Gordon above him.   

Like I said in the other thread, though... people are acting like the Brooklyn theoretical top 5 pick is our magic asset.   What has more trade value right now...  that Brooklyn pick that may or may not end up top 5... or Mario Hezonja (literally the #5 pick this year).   I'd say Hezonja.   Are you telling me Boston could beat an offer of Vucevic + Hezonja for Cousins?

I think it's clear with A Gordon being ahead of Smart and Oladipo being an undesireable Kemba type piece the only option for the Kings is to see if they can swing a trade for Biyombo. 

[GetLucky]

In a Cousins trade it's worth noting that the Kings lose their pick if it is outside the top 10 (goes to Chicago). I they are inside the top 10, Philly has a chance to swap with them, although it'll be a high pick regardless. Any Cousins trade, I believe, would be followed by a Rondo trade and a massive tank job. As a result, I would figure that the Kings would desire draft picks/raw prospects over established young players. This top 10 protection lasts until 2018.

[thirstyboots18]

I know there are many here who think Rondo is worse than useless.  I don't agree, and at this point, I think Cousins will stay with the Kings.  He and Rondo seem to be meshing.

I want to add...I believe some things were worked out in the players meeting they just had.  Vlade Divak also said that George Carl's job as coach was NOT in jeopardy (I didn't see any mention of Cousins, though).  Rondo had 20 assists the other night...keeping team mates happy and making them feel good?  Rondo continues to pile up trip-dubs, even sinking TWO three pointers in one game. 

Regarding his foul shooting at the end of games, Coach came up with a semi-solution.  Rondo inbounds the ball instead of being a sitting target for a foul.  Keeps him on the floor to play floor general without being a primary sitting target.

Oh, and I have watched Omri Casspi work out here in Clearwater at David Thorpe's camp...and he seems to be catching on with the Kings (at least I hope so).

[Eja117]

Realistically I'd take any of the Rockets bigs (21 year old Harrell, 21 year old Cappela, Demo, and T Jones) over A Gordon any day and I would think this would make a lot more sense for the Kings

[TheFlex]

I don't think Vucevic and Hezonja is an offer that separates itself from other top offers that would hypothetically be on the table. Now if they offered those 2 plus their 1st this year, they might have something.

[TheFlex]

I don't see any one piece here that (a) George Karl would go ga-ga for or (b) is a really top shelf A+ asset.

My instinct is that whoever trades for Cousins will need one of those two things.

Also I'd think that Orlando would hesitate before trading for another moody, willful center who will probably just leave them in a couple years for nothing.

So maybe Aaron Gordon would be the centerpiece... since I see Marcus Smart as Boston's best asset and I rank Gordon above him.   

Like I said in the other thread, though... people are acting like the Brooklyn theoretical top 5 pick is our magic asset.   What has more trade value right now...  that Brooklyn pick that may or may not end up top 5... or Mario Hezonja (literally the #5 pick this year).   I'd say Hezonja.   Are you telling me Boston could beat an offer of Vucevic + Hezonja for Cousins?

I think it's clear with A Gordon being ahead of Smart and Oladipo being an undesireable Kemba type piece the only option for the Kings is to see if they can swing a trade for Biyombo.

This is just too perfect.

[nickagneta]

The thing about Orlando is they have parts but given all the pedigree on their picks(so many top ten picks and a bunch of top 5s), none of their players are transcendent. Heck, at this point after 4 years in the league with Vucevic and Harris, 3 years in the league with Fournier, 2 years in the league with Oladipo and Gordon and Payton finishing their rookie years, there isn't one player on that team that even looks like a future All-Star.

They are a poorer version of the Celtics with a higher draft pedigree. On potential they might be considered to have a better situation than the Celtics but that potential and 5 bucks can buy you a Starbucks latte and little else. I just don't get that the Magic are considered loaded with future stars as some on this site feel they are.

The Magic are a small market team that is going to have a bunch of high draft pick players, none of which are franchise cornerstone types, all come due for huge paydays which could throw them into cap hell, even with the new cap going so high.

So if the Magic can move some of this youth for a talent the equal of Cousins, they should do it because I think they don't have the horses to make the jump to the next level without a player of that ilk. But....it's goin to take a lot more than Vucevic and Hezonja to get it done. A lot more!!!

[chambers]

The thing about Orlando is they have parts but given all the pedigree on their picks(so many top ten picks and a bunch of top 5s), none of their players are transcendent. Heck, at this point after 4 years in the league with Vucevic and Harris, 3 years in the league with Fournier, 2 years in the league with Oladipo and Gordon and Payton finishing their rookie years, there isn't one player on that team that even looks like a future All-Star.

They are a poorer version of the Celtics with a higher draft pedigree. On potential they might be considered to have a better situation than the Celtics but that potential and 5 bucks can buy you a Starbucks latte and little else. I just don't get that the Magic are considered loaded with future stars as some on this site feel they are.

The Magic are a small market team that is going to have a bunch of high draft pick players, none of which are franchise cornerstone types, all come due for huge paydays which could throw them into cap hell, even with the new cap going so high.

So if the Magic can move some of this youth for a talent the equal of Cousins, they should do it because I think they don't have the horses to make the jump to the next level without a player of that ilk. But....it's goin to take a lot more than Vucevic and Hezonja to get it done. A lot more!!!

If we compare all current players on the roster, Orlando is head and shoulders above the Celtics in young All Star potential.
There are multiple potential All Stars on their roster and if you've watched them 4 or 5 times this year their depth and young talent is pretty amazing.
Aaron Gordon, Heznoja, Oladipo, Fournier, Payton are all excellent prospects with Fournier being the oldest one at 23.

They aren't as good as the Celtics because they are younger than our main core. Take the 5 youngest guys on their team vs our 5 youngest guys and they simply destroy us.

Our only hope of beating an offer for Cousins vs the Magic is that Brooklyn pick finding its way into the top 3.

[Csfan1984]

I don't believe Magic are ready for that move just yet. They have a bunch of pieces but the whole team is developing. Harris and Vucevic are ready to compete but the rest are another year or more away. I think patience is the hardest thing to have for a developing team. Kind of the same deal with the C's. There needs to be more development before there is any chance at a deep playoff run. If they got Cousins for Vucevic, ____ and a pick it would help them but Center wasn't an issue for them in the first place. They need better PG, SG, and PF play as well as a vet bench. If they are indeed patient then Victor and Mario will improve enough to be considered good SG options. Gordon and Payton have flashed potential for their positions as well. Their bench can be solidified with vets through small trades or FA once starters are good. I believe they should keep on the path they are on. They should continue to look to strike in FA like they tried to do last offseason when they went for Milsap. Had that gone right they would be in the playoff hunt with Payton, Victor, Harris, Milsap and Vucevic.

[Who]

They remind me a lot of the Baby-Bulls from about 10 years ago. Deng, B.Gordon, Hinrich, T.Chandler, E.Curry, Nocioni. Lots of pieces. Good young talent.

(1) Lacked that top notch young talent to lead them going forward. To be their franchise player.
(2) Lacked the type of talent to acquire such a player (Kobe Bryant) in a trade without decimating the remainder of their team.
(3) Then began to overvalue their own youth and refused to part ways with them to land All-Star talents like Pau Gasol.

It'll be interesting to see how Orlando navigates this path going forward. I really liked those Baby-Bulls teams. I was disappointed by how badly the managed to capitalize on all those young players they had.