Smart Vs. Randle

[PhoSita]

Can people finally admit Smart sucks? The guy is so bad on offense. And I don't see why people value his defense so much, he's a midget. Like he can't guard big wings so who cares at this point. Paul George burned him, Kevin Durant burned him. He can't guard Lebron. Kwai would probably destroy him too. Don't really get the hype.

Getting down on Smart because he can't cover Durant, LeBron or Paul George?  Smart can smother about any guard but because he can't cover SFs too, he sucks?  His lack of shooting touch is an issue but not this.

I think it's fair to point out that a guard tends to have less impact defensively than a wing or a big, even if he's a really active, talented defender like Smart.

Of course, to take that and run with it to the point where you're saying Smart sucks ... that's unreasonable.

[Ilikesports17]

According to RPM Julius Randle is 433 out of 453 qualifying players.

Can we finally admit he sucks.

No because hes not that bad and neither is Smart.

Dude, the Lakers are not winning. They have bad players around him. How do you not understand that? That stat depends on how much a team wins...

Google RPM then go ahead and feel like an idiot.

It has Kelly Olynk ranked 37. Great stat.

Its a flawed stat. Absolutely. But you also had no idea what it is.

Below is it's definition. If a team scores more than the other team, that is good for the players real plus minus. So again, if Randle played with a better squad who outscored his opponent, he would have a better RPM. I won't call you an idiot, because I'm not that inconsiderate.

As the name suggests, real plus-minus shares a family resemblance with the +/- stat in the box score, which merely registers the net change in score (plus or minus) while each player is on the court.

RPM is inspired by the same underlying +/- logic: If a team outscores its opponents when a player is on the court, he's probably doing something to help his team, whether or not he's putting up big numbers.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/10740818/introducing-real-plus-minus

If you read the whole definition and really put your reading cap on you will see the stat is literally developed to account for the fact that regular plus minus is too reliant on the strength of your teammates.

It uses a bunch of calc to more or less look at what the plus minus should be with an average player then compares that to what it actually is. If Randle negatively effects that then he has a negative RPM etc.

If you are gonna be **** dont pretend to be "considerate"

I read through it, but I just don't think there is a sound and effective way to take out teammates into the calculation. If Randle played with better players, his RPM would at least be right around Smart's. Like I've been saying, at this point it will take 5 years for people to realize how garbage Smart is. He's going to be a bench player IMO.

Alright thats fair. I think calling him garbage means hes terrible. I could definitely see him being a high end role  player.  A really good 6th or 7th man.

[tankcity!]

According to RPM Julius Randle is 433 out of 453 qualifying players.

Can we finally admit he sucks.

No because hes not that bad and neither is Smart.

Dude, the Lakers are not winning. They have bad players around him. How do you not understand that? That stat depends on how much a team wins...

Google RPM then go ahead and feel like an idiot.

It has Kelly Olynk ranked 37. Great stat.

Its a flawed stat. Absolutely. But you also had no idea what it is.

Below is it's definition. If a team scores more than the other team, that is good for the players real plus minus. So again, if Randle played with a better squad who outscored his opponent, he would have a better RPM. I won't call you an idiot, because I'm not that inconsiderate.

As the name suggests, real plus-minus shares a family resemblance with the +/- stat in the box score, which merely registers the net change in score (plus or minus) while each player is on the court.

RPM is inspired by the same underlying +/- logic: If a team outscores its opponents when a player is on the court, he's probably doing something to help his team, whether or not he's putting up big numbers.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/10740818/introducing-real-plus-minus

If you read the whole definition and really put your reading cap on you will see the stat is literally developed to account for the fact that regular plus minus is too reliant on the strength of your teammates.

It uses a bunch of calc to more or less look at what the plus minus should be with an average player then compares that to what it actually is. If Randle negatively effects that then he has a negative RPM etc.

If you are gonna be **** dont pretend to be "considerate"

I read through it, but I just don't think there is a sound and effective way to take out teammates into the calculation. If Randle played with better players, his RPM would at least be right around Smart's. Like I've been saying, at this point it will take 5 years for people to realize how garbage Smart is. He's going to be a bench player IMO.

Alright thats fair. I think calling him garbage means hes terrible. I could definitely see him being a high end role  player.  A really good 6th or 7th man.

That could definitely happen. The only reason I don't think he will is because he has gotten worse from last year. He is shooting 27% from three and that is what is most concerning for me personally. You'd like to see some improvement. I just think of KO and Sully and how they grew as players year over year. Haven't seen it with Smart.

[wayupnorth]

Lol come on guys, his username is tankcity, what do you expect?

[Vermont Green]

Can people finally admit Smart sucks? The guy is so bad on offense. And I don't see why people value his defense so much, he's a midget. Like he can't guard big wings so who cares at this point. Paul George burned him, Kevin Durant burned him. He can't guard Lebron. Kwai would probably destroy him too. Don't really get the hype.

Getting down on Smart because he can't cover Durant, LeBron or Paul George?  Smart can smother about any guard but because he can't cover SFs too, he sucks?  His lack of shooting touch is an issue but not this.

I think it's fair to point out that a guard tends to have less impact defensively than a wing or a big, even if he's a really active, talented defender like Smart.

Of course, to take that and run with it to the point where you're saying Smart sucks ... that's unreasonable.

I have read enough good posts from you to know you understand basketball but I actually think individual ball pressure by a PG is a very important individual defensive factor.  I don't know how to determine if it is statistically more important than wing defense but my eye test tells me it is pretty important.

I think we agree on the main point that is it should not be a knock that a 6'-3" combo guard can't cover 6'-11" Kevin Durant, any more than Durant's ability to cover Chris Paul.

[tankcity!]

Can people finally admit Smart sucks? The guy is so bad on offense. And I don't see why people value his defense so much, he's a midget. Like he can't guard big wings so who cares at this point. Paul George burned him, Kevin Durant burned him. He can't guard Lebron. Kwai would probably destroy him too. Don't really get the hype.

Getting down on Smart because he can't cover Durant, LeBron or Paul George?  Smart can smother about any guard but because he can't cover SFs too, he sucks?  His lack of shooting touch is an issue but not this.

I think it's fair to point out that a guard tends to have less impact defensively than a wing or a big, even if he's a really active, talented defender like Smart.

Of course, to take that and run with it to the point where you're saying Smart sucks ... that's unreasonable.

I have read enough good posts from you to know you understand basketball but I actually think individual ball pressure by a PG is a very important individual defensive factor.  I don't know how to determine if it is statistically more important than wing defense but my eye test tells me it is pretty important.

I think we agree on the main point that is it should not be a knock that a 6'-3" combo guard can't cover 6'-11" Kevin Durant, any more than Durant's ability to cover Chris Paul.

Yeah that's fair.

[Rondo9]

Lol come on guys, his username is tankcity, what do you expect?

Seriously. If Smart is a bench player, then Randle is as well.

[alldaboston]

I kinda wish we could only visit this thread once a season.

[LarBrd33]

Double-double from a rookie big man is pretty solid.  I think 20/10 from Randle is definitely in reach for him a couple years from now.   He's got a lot of potential.  They apparently will be rebuilding his shot this Summer so it'll be interesting to see if his game reacts positively to that.  He could make a significant leap next season with a larger role, more minutes, and a more advanced game. 

Smart vs Randle is still gaining steam.  I've continued to be pretty disappointed in Smart's game as a whole.  Yes, he has his qualities... but so do a lot of young prospects (including Randle).  As a whole, I've been pretty disappointing with Smart offensively.  He still has room to grow.  Smart vs Randle is closer than a lot of people here want to admit at this point.

That 2014 draft is pretty interesting.  There was a time this season where some of the fans here wanted to believe Smart would go 2nd in a redraft.   Wiggins has been great, obviously.  Jabari Parker has predictably come on extremely strong recently.  That kid is balling.   I'd probably still take Aaron Gordon over both Smart and Randle in a re-draft... that kid is showing huge potential.   Jury is still out on Exum.   Everyone has Ben Simmons/Brandon Ingram as the most likely ROY candidates next season, but I haven't yet ruled out Embiid.    Can't wait to see what the 2014 draft looks like 3 years from now.

[Ilikesports17]

Im a huge Smart fan, but post AS smart has been terrible and really disappointing. Hes gained a bad rap with refs, hes gone cold again shooting the ball, and hes made some dumb plays.

I still love him, but the past few weeks have really gone in Randles favor

[Celtics18]

Marcus has definitely been struggling lately.  It is important to remember that he's still twenty-one years old and in his second year in the league.  I just think some folks aren't being very realistic about the fact that young players generally have their struggles in their first couple of years.

If all young players were written off this early by their GMs for rough patches of play, you would end up with an awful lot of regret.

I know patience isn't standard operating procedure for sports fans, but sometimes a bit is in order.

[MBunge]

Marcus has definitely been struggling lately.  It is important to remember that he's still twenty-one years old and in his second year in the league.  I just think some folks aren't being very realistic about the fact that young players generally have their struggles in their first couple of years.

How bad would Tony Allen have looked if Doc had told him to go stand behind the three-point line on offense and then jack up a shot every time he was open?  That is what Stevens is telling Smart to do.  That's what he told Sully to do the previous two seasons.

Mike

[TheSundanceKid]

How is this thread not locked by now? Every time it gets revived it's the same.

"Smart sucks, how can you not c that lolz!"

people respond with "It's been 5 minutes since you last let that garbage disposal you call a mouth rant on an subject done to death, give it a year."

Smart has a bad game against 2 of the top 5 SMALL FORWARDS in the league.. rinse and repeat.

Jeez, small sample sizes are not representative of a player.

[CelticsJG]

Please he been bad a season, at least offensively. I thinking this dude might be injury prone as well.

[Rosco917]

Im a huge Smart fan, but post AS smart has been terrible and really disappointing. Hes gained a bad rap with refs, hes gone cold again shooting the ball, and hes made some dumb plays.

I still love him, but the past few weeks have really gone in Randles favor

I'll agree with the above. I'm beginning to be annoyed by his excessive flopping and complaining to the refs. It's like he's imitating what he see's the well known veterans do. He needs to learn to let the game come to him on the offensive end of the court. And not force a shot because he thinks it's time he took a shot. It's like he doesn't know what his game is on the O side of the ball.