Mickey, Young to Red Claws

[Monkhouse]

This has always been a consistent debate between all the Celtic bloggers.

But the truth is even if you guys say Young is as bad as he is, what's the point of cutting or trading him for literally nothing? We're better off seeing if he can develop and grow under a competent head coach, then sending him elsewhere, and seeing him blossom with another team. (While this isn't 100% accurate, players traded from our team always seem to find their niche or do extremely well, ala Allen, Green, etc.)

Worst case he does really bad in D-League, and can't even crack the rotation, and becomes a sweetener or added filler for a good prospect or superstar trade. Best case he turns into a good 3 and D type of guard with enough improved handles to keep the defense wary.

I think Young if he ever reaches his potential could be a 17-18/5/4 type of guy with more focus on defense.

His stroke is just too smooth. Its just worrisome that's he's so streaky.

[crimson_stallion]

No, James Young was a superior college player in one year of NCAA play at a younger age than any of our three picks. Let's give him a bit more time to figure it out in the big leagues.

Debatable...

Young averaged 14/4/2 in his year, compared to what the others averaged pre-draft:

- Rozier (17/6/3)
- Hunter (20/5/4)
- Mickey (15/10/1/3)

They all look better than Young to me...

Aside from this, I think it's a bit silly to use college performance to compare the guy at this point.  The only time you use these is when no NBA results are available.  We have seen summer league and preseason play from all of the above, and evrey one of those guys looked solid except for Young.

That's far more relevant than college stats.

nah. lets give up on a project pick one year into his development so we can trade him and watch him blossom somewhere else. he's really taking up space and eating up minutes that other guys need to develop. besides, we're in WIN-NOW mode.

1) There has been absolutely nothing so far that I've seen to suggest he will ever 'blossom'

2) Of course, as long as Young's roster spot / salary is not needed for other (i.e. productive) players, it's a no brainer to keep him on the roster.  However if/when we have a chance to add another player who can actually contribute, then Young should go.

3) We absolutely are in 'WIN-NOW' mode.  That's why Danny is no longer trying to sell off all the guys we have for draft picks and cap space.  That's why he was a buyer (adding Amir Johnson) rather than a seller in the off-season.  If Ainge wasn't trying to "win now" then there would have been absolutely no incentive to add a veteran with minimal upside (Johnson) to a $12M/year deal.

[crimson_stallion]

(While this isn't 100% accurate, players traded from our team always seem to find their niche or do extremely well, ala Allen, Green, etc.)

Troy Bell
Dahntay Jones
Brandon Hunter
JR Bremer
Bruno Sundov
Delonte West
Tony Allen
Al Jefferson
Justin Reed
Rajon Rondo
Aaron Gray
Rudy Fernandez
Gerald Green
Ryan Gomes
Jeff Green
Gabe Pruit
JR Giddens
Lester Hudson
Marshon Brooks
E'Twaun Moore
Glenn Davis
Jared Sullinger
Fab Melo
Kris Joseph
Rajon Rondo
Lucas Nogueira
Kelly Olynyk
James Young
Marcus Smart

From what I can find, this is a list of just about every single prospect Danny Ainge has drafted in his time with the Celtics.

The following are the ones I would say eventually developed onto good players:

* Delonte West: Traded brought back a better player (Ray Allen)
* Tony Allen: Signed with Memphis as a free agent
* Al Jefferson: Traded in a deal that brought back a better player (Kevin Garnett)
* Rajon Rondo: Peaked with the Celtics, then declined after being traded away
* Glen Davis: Peaked with the Celtics, then declined after being traded away
* Gerald Green: Traded in a deal that brought back a better player (Kevin Garnett)
* Jeff Green: Traded in a deal that brought back a better player (Ray Allen)
* Avery Bradley: Still with the Celtics
* Jared sullinger: Still with the Celtics
* Rajon Rondo: Still with the Celtics
* Kelly Olynyk: Still with the Celtics
* Marcus Smart: Still with the Celtics

I cannot think of a single prospect that we have had in the Danny Ainge era who was traded away with regret. Every player Ainge traded has either declined after being traded, or else was traded in a deal that brougth back a FAR superior palyer.


Tony Allen doesn't count since he wasn't traded - he signed with Memphis in free agency.

Worst case he does really bad in D-League, and can't even crack the rotation, and becomes a sweetener or added filler for a good prospect or superstar trade. Best case he turns into a good 3 and D type of guard with enough improved handles to keep the defense wary.

I think Young if he ever reaches his potential could be a 17-18/5/4 type of guy with more focus on defense.

Unlike this ever happens since Young has never in his life been a good (or even competent) defender, has never been a capable passer, and has always been a mediocre ball handler. 

What you're suggesting is like suggesting Avery Bradley (in his sophomore year) had the potential to become a 18/5/5 guy - everybody knew he had limitations in his passing and ball handling, and that he'd never be capable of those numbers.
 
Best case for James Young is pretty much Aaron Afflalo (but with worse defense).  I mean that is the absolute ceiling. Afflalo was a nice player in his prime, but he was never good enough to change the fortunes of a franchise.  If worst -and most unlikely - case happened (i.e. if we traded Young and he developed into Afflalo 2.0) I wouldn't cry over it.

More likely is that he ends up a career D-League with zero trade value.

[Future Celtics Owner]

He already dominated the D League. I see a guy that has more to learn/execute and had a confidence issue at certain times on the court. He has a great coach that is developing him and using all the tools to do so...............THATS IT.

[crimson_stallion]

He already dominated the D League. I see a guy that has more to learn/execute and had a confidence issue at certain times on the court. He has a great coach that is developing him and using all the tools to do so...............THATS IT.

People need to stop using the D-league as a guide, because (no offense to the players in it, but) the league really is a joke when it comes to projecting NBA talent.  It's only real purpose is to keep end of bench prospects warm when they can't yet earn NBA minutes.

Remember, after all, that Fabo also dominated the D-League. As did Chris Johnson, Kris Joseph, Phil Pressey (played one game, and it was a monster).  Yet all of those players were pretty average in preseason games, and all have struggled to fight for anything more than a 3rd string / 10th man role for their NBA teams.   

If you are an NBA player of ANY caliber (even the very last man on the roster) and get sent to the D-League, then you should be expected to put up nice numbers - any less and I would be extremely concerned.

See, you don't dominate the D-League in the hope of proving you can be a future NBA star.  You dominate the D-League in the hope that you can earn a 10-day contract as a 11th-12th man spot on an NBA roster, so that you can hopefully get spot NBA minutes in which you can hopefully prove you have some value in the REAL league.

If you can get past those 10-day contracts and actually get a permanent contract/role as an 11th/12th man on an NBA team, then you have truly stuck D-League gold.

The only time an NBA caliber player / prospect ever goes to the D-League is if they are on a playoff caliber team that is too deep at their position, and so they go down to Maine so they can get some reps and stay active.   James young plays SG/SF which are our two thinnest positions, so he does not have that excuse.

This is why I put absolutely zero weight into what any player produces in the D-League.  The only results I give some weight to, other than actual NBA games, is the preseason.  This is because preseason rosters actually contain 70%-80% actual NBA players, and hence you are actually facing legit NBA-grade competition.  If you (as a prospect) can dominate in the preseason, then that's a pretty good sign that you have some legit NBA potential.  Sadly Young hasn't done that.  He has absolutely sucked in every preseason games he's played, and he was thoroughly outplayed by the trio of Hunter/Rozier/Mickey.

Look at guys like Schroeder, McLemore, Vonleh and Thomas Robinson - those guys were all extremely raw in their rookies years, but they were still able to maintain roster spots on NBA teams. 

If Young is being sent to the D-League for the second straight season (while Hunter and Rozier are making the roster) then that is really not a good sign for Young.  It tells you how much confidence the Celtics have in his talents, which is 'not much'. 

Does it mean his career is doomed, and that he will never amount to anything as a player?  Of course not.  But it does means that there is a very slim chance that he will ever becoming more than a passable backup SG/SF.

[billysan]

It seems to me that Mr Young was drafted with a reach in a draft that was called weak on player talent. That said James Young has plenty of talent physically, just needs to work on the mental aspect of the game.

Not saying he is dumb, far from it. To be fair he played in a Kentucky system that was very simple for players with superior athletic ability and he flourished with a man defense scheme where all he had to do was beat his man.

He is learning ( I hope) that in the NBA, that isn't enough. Confidence and experience will serve him well/ The question is, do we have time to wait? He may be developed just enough to serve as a nice trade piece if we don't want to wait.

[SHAQATTACK]

james was very lucky to start off at the tender age on a team with good FO and coach who is used to coaching and training kids.

Young probably would have already failed on many teams and cast out of the NBA with less Patience.

I m seeing progress in other areas besides shooting.  I think he'll make it now , on some team if not the Celtics.

[pokeKingCurtis]

He already dominated the D League. I see a guy that has more to learn/execute and had a confidence issue at certain times on the court. He has a great coach that is developing him and using all the tools to do so...............THATS IT.

People need to stop using the D-league as a guide, because (no offense to the players in it, but) the league really is a joke when it comes to projecting NBA talent.  It's only real purpose is to keep end of bench prospects warm when they can't yet earn NBA minutes.

Remember, after all, that Fabo also dominated the D-League. As did Chris Johnson, Kris Joseph, Phil Pressey (played one game, and it was a monster).  Yet all of those players were pretty average in preseason games, and all have struggled to fight for anything more than a 3rd string / 10th man role for their NBA teams.   

If you are an NBA player of ANY caliber (even the very last man on the roster) and get sent to the D-League, then you should be expected to put up nice numbers - any less and I would be extremely concerned.

See, you don't dominate the D-League in the hope of proving you can be a future NBA star.  You dominate the D-League in the hope that you can earn a 10-day contract as a 11th-12th man spot on an NBA roster, so that you can hopefully get spot NBA minutes in which you can hopefully prove you have some value in the REAL league.

If you can get past those 10-day contracts and actually get a permanent contract/role as an 11th/12th man on an NBA team, then you have truly stuck D-League gold.

The only time an NBA caliber player / prospect ever goes to the D-League is if they are on a playoff caliber team that is too deep at their position, and so they go down to Maine so they can get some reps and stay active.   James young plays SG/SF which are our two thinnest positions, so he does not have that excuse.

This is why I put absolutely zero weight into what any player produces in the D-League.  The only results I give some weight to, other than actual NBA games, is the preseason.  This is because preseason rosters actually contain 70%-80% actual NBA players, and hence you are actually facing legit NBA-grade competition.  If you (as a prospect) can dominate in the preseason, then that's a pretty good sign that you have some legit NBA potential.  Sadly Young hasn't done that.  He has absolutely sucked in every preseason games he's played, and he was thoroughly outplayed by the trio of Hunter/Rozier/Mickey.

Look at guys like Schroeder, McLemore, Vonleh and Thomas Robinson - those guys were all extremely raw in their rookies years, but they were still able to maintain roster spots on NBA teams. 

If Young is being sent to the D-League for the second straight season (while Hunter and Rozier are making the roster) then that is really not a good sign for Young.  It tells you how much confidence the Celtics have in his talents, which is 'not much'. 

Does it mean his career is doomed, and that he will never amount to anything as a player?  Of course not.  But it does means that there is a very slim chance that he will ever becoming more than a passable backup SG/SF.

Sure. But the saying goes, failing the D-League means you're probably not NBA material.

Fab Melo was up and down in the D-League.

My understanding is that at least James Young has been consistent.

[Evantime34]

On the getting rid of James Young Debate:
When we drafted Young as the second youngest player in the draft the team was obviously doing it with an eye towards the long term. He is currently the youngest player on our team in his second year.

I personally wouldn't trust the front office if they picked a project/upside player and then gave up on him before he had a chance to develop.

What is the upside of cutting bait this early? He was an elite freshman in college as one of the youngest players in his recruiting class. He has upside and there is no value in jettisoning him before he has a chance to develop. Why would we sell low?

On sending these guys to the d-league:
James Young looked like his confidence was completely shot during the summer league and early preseason. The d-league is good for him because it boosts his confidence. After coming up from the d-league last year he played with a lot of confidence. This way if the C's do need him to play he will be confident when he steps on the court.

Mickey and Young both deserve a chance to play now. They will get their chance for minutes on the parent club but it won't be before an injury/trade.

[Hemingway]

I wonder how long Danny thought Young would take to develop when he drafted him. Like, is Young behind schedule or did Danny make the pick expecting him to play in the D league for 2 years? I could believe either way.

[wiley]

The OP says James young is gone. That might be great for him since we have a logjam at the 2.  But the C's would be wiser to keep him for a bit longer...what if the cool trade that lands a legit big decreases our guard depth?  Then Young is right back up..

There are some teams who would give him minutes now, let him score and make tons of mistakes and reduce those mistakes over time.

Philly?
Could he do any worse than McLemore in Sacramento is doing?
Could he do worse than Gary Harris in Denver?
Etc, etc...

[kozlodoev]

James Young = younger than Rozier and Hunter.

There's one thing people don't seem to understand about age. Grooming a (very) young player so that he can turn into an decent NBA player is counterproductive. You're better off signing a decent NBA player when you need one instead. they're not THAT rare of a commodity.

Sure, you could groom James Young for 10 years so that he can turn into what Gerald Green is now, but is it worth it? There's nothing magical about homegrown talent.

On the getting rid of James Young Debate:
When we drafted Young as the second youngest player in the draft the team was obviously doing it with an eye towards the long term. He is currently the youngest player on our team in his second year.

When your project shows no improvement for 2-3 years, it's time to cut your losses.

[fairweatherfan]

On the getting rid of James Young Debate:
When we drafted Young as the second youngest player in the draft the team was obviously doing it with an eye towards the long term. He is currently the youngest player on our team in his second year.

When your project shows no improvement for 2-3 years, it's time to cut your losses.

Agreed.  Fortunate that he's only been on the team for a little over 1, then.

[kozlodoev]

On the getting rid of James Young Debate:
When we drafted Young as the second youngest player in the draft the team was obviously doing it with an eye towards the long term. He is currently the youngest player on our team in his second year.

When your project shows no improvement for 2-3 years, it's time to cut your losses.

Agreed.  Fortunate that he's only been on the team for a little over 1, then.

Oh, I didn't mean they'd cut him right away. In fact, they just exercised his option for 2016-17. But when you're getting beat by two rookies, your future isn't looking rosy. And I think he's certainly trade bait at this point.

[kozlodoev]

Look at guys like Schroeder, McLemore, Vonleh and Thomas Robinson - those guys were all extremely raw in their rookies years, but they were still able to maintain roster spots on NBA teams.

As far as I am concerned, if you're spending most of the time in the D-league it's a red flag regardless of your age. Competent NBA players can usually show something right away, something that will keep them on an NBA roster at least for a period of time. Rondo was drafted the same age that Young is now and he never sniffed the D-league. Was he a finished product? Absolutely not. But you could tell he could play, and you could tell what he was going to be. Young, not so much.