Author Topic: Crowder and Smart: Good defenders but inefficient shooters  (Read 4142 times)

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Re: Crowder and Smart: Good defenders but inefficient shooters
« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2015, 04:20:47 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Not to make excuses for Smart . But he seemed to shoot better at the beginning of Summer League , he was quite hot ......

Until he fell on his fingers on his shooting hand .

I can't help but think those finger are still not really right .   He has them taped up .....I could not shot well with my fingers locked together .

It's just an observation ,  to me his release is altered by the way he holds the ball now .   

Seems he can't catch a break .    The ankle was stiff and bother him last year.   It's obvious he is cutting and jumping better .  But now I think he is dealing with the fingers still. 
Smart never would admit till near season end his ankle was bothering him .   I suspect he is not wanting to let his opponents know his finger s are not healed either .

Maybe by Xmas he ll get well again to knock down his shots more,consistent.

Re: Crowder and Smart: Good defenders but inefficient shooters
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2015, 06:48:29 PM »

Offline alldaboston

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the defensive players in the starting line up is overkill. we need a scorer in the starting line up.

They could start Amir and IT, the best scoring combo the team has, but then what does that do to the defense against opposing starters?

I would like to see Brad try out the following lineup more often, though:

IT - Smart - Crowder/Jerebko - KO - Amir

no freaking way dude. for one, I can't stand 2 pg's in the backcourt. I look at it as you're breaking even(at best) playing that way. then who plays back up pg? rozier? are you ready to give him those kinda mins.?

I hate to say it but Turner has to start over crowder. I would start amir but he's a dude that's been in the league 10 yrs., not sure he could handle it.

starting KO at center is like playing 2 pg's at the same time in my eyes. at best we'll break even in that match up.

I would consider a line up of:

zeller
sully
turner
Bradley
smart

zeller has really underwhelmed thus far though. I don't know, this team looks horrible at the moment.

What is the italicized supposed to mean?

Oh also. We lost 1 game. Chill
« Last Edit: October 31, 2015, 06:54:41 PM by alldaboston »
I could very well see the Hawks... starting Taurean Prince at the 3, who is already better than Crowder, imo.

you vs. the guy she tells you not to worry about

Re: Crowder and Smart: Good defenders but inefficient shooters
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2015, 07:39:31 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Not to make excuses for Smart . But he seemed to shoot better at the beginning of Summer League , he was quite hot ......

Until he fell on his fingers on his shooting hand .

I can't help but think those finger are still not really right .   He has them taped up .....I could not shot well with my fingers locked together .

It's just an observation ,  to me his release is altered by the way he holds the ball now .   

Seems he can't catch a break .    The ankle was stiff and bother him last year.   It's obvious he is cutting and jumping better .  But now I think he is dealing with the fingers still. 
Smart never would admit till near season end his ankle was bothering him .   I suspect he is not wanting to let his opponents know his finger s are not healed either .

Maybe by Xmas he ll get well again to knock down his shots more,consistent.
A couple summer league games aside, we have seen enough to support the idea that Smart is just a weak offensive player at this point in his career.  Maybe he develops eventually but it's probably more likely he ends up a defensive role player like tony Allen.  He didn't show much progress over the second half of the season, summer league or preseason.  I think he will he a bit better though.  I can see him ending up like Rodney stuckey.  Hopefully he breaks out into something even better.

Re: Crowder and Smart: Good defenders but inefficient shooters
« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2015, 07:46:20 PM »

Offline Surferdad

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Not to make excuses for Smart . But he seemed to shoot better at the beginning of Summer League , he was quite hot ......

Until he fell on his fingers on his shooting hand .

I can't help but think those finger are still not really right .   He has them taped up .....I could not shot well with my fingers locked together .

It's just an observation ,  to me his release is altered by the way he holds the ball now .   

Seems he can't catch a break .    The ankle was stiff and bother him last year.   It's obvious he is cutting and jumping better .  But now I think he is dealing with the fingers still. 
Smart never would admit till near season end his ankle was bothering him .   I suspect he is not wanting to let his opponents know his finger s are not healed either .

Maybe by Xmas he ll get well again to knock down his shots more,consistent.
A couple summer league games aside, we have seen enough to support the idea that Smart is just a weak offensive player at this point in his career.  Maybe he develops eventually but it's probably more likely he ends up a defensive role player like tony Allen.  He didn't show much progress over the second half of the season, summer league or preseason.  I think he will he a bit better though.  I can see him ending up like Rodney stuckey.  Hopefully he breaks out into something even better.
Smart might become a better version of Tony Allen, one that can actually shoot. 

Re: Crowder and Smart: Good defenders but inefficient shooters
« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2015, 07:51:31 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Not to make excuses for Smart . But he seemed to shoot better at the beginning of Summer League , he was quite hot ......

Until he fell on his fingers on his shooting hand .

I can't help but think those finger are still not really right .   He has them taped up .....I could not shot well with my fingers locked together .

It's just an observation ,  to me his release is altered by the way he holds the ball now .   

Seems he can't catch a break .    The ankle was stiff and bother him last year.   It's obvious he is cutting and jumping better .  But now I think he is dealing with the fingers still. 
Smart never would admit till near season end his ankle was bothering him .   I suspect he is not wanting to let his opponents know his finger s are not healed either .

Maybe by Xmas he ll get well again to knock down his shots more,consistent.
A couple summer league games aside, we have seen enough to support the idea that Smart is just a weak offensive player at this point in his career.  Maybe he develops eventually but it's probably more likely he ends up a defensive role player like tony Allen.  He didn't show much progress over the second half of the season, summer league or preseason.  I think he will he a bit better though.  I can see him ending up like Rodney stuckey.  Hopefully he breaks out into something even better.
Smart might become a better version of Tony Allen, one that can actually shoot.
Yeah smart might develop into a mediocre shooter.   Coming into the draft I thought his offensive floor was Tyreke Evans, but at this point I think calling Tyreke his ceiling might be a bit ambitious.  Here's hoping. How often do the rondo's and smart's of the world go from weak to good shooters?

Re: Crowder and Smart: Good defenders but inefficient shooters
« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2015, 08:17:55 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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Tyreke Evans is a mediocre player.
"The worst thing that ever happened in sports was sports radio, and the internet is sports radio on steroids with lower IQs.” -- Brian Burke, former Toronto Maple Leafs senior adviser, at the 2013 MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference

Re: Crowder and Smart: Good defenders but inefficient shooters
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2015, 09:02:28 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Tyreke Evans is a mediocre player.
yup... we will be lucky if smart develops into anything close to what Evans is on the offensive end. 

Re: Crowder and Smart: Good defenders but inefficient shooters
« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2015, 09:35:04 PM »

Offline BDeCosta26

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Not to make excuses for Smart . But he seemed to shoot better at the beginning of Summer League , he was quite hot ......

Until he fell on his fingers on his shooting hand .

I can't help but think those finger are still not really right .   He has them taped up .....I could not shot well with my fingers locked together .

It's just an observation ,  to me his release is altered by the way he holds the ball now .   

Seems he can't catch a break .    The ankle was stiff and bother him last year.   It's obvious he is cutting and jumping better .  But now I think he is dealing with the fingers still. 
Smart never would admit till near season end his ankle was bothering him .   I suspect he is not wanting to let his opponents know his finger s are not healed either .

Maybe by Xmas he ll get well again to knock down his shots more,consistent.
A couple summer league games aside, we have seen enough to support the idea that Smart is just a weak offensive player at this point in his career.  Maybe he develops eventually but it's probably more likely he ends up a defensive role player like tony Allen.  He didn't show much progress over the second half of the season, summer league or preseason.  I think he will he a bit better though.  I can see him ending up like Rodney stuckey.  Hopefully he breaks out into something even better.
Smart might become a better version of Tony Allen, one that can actually shoot.
Yeah smart might develop into a mediocre shooter.   Coming into the draft I thought his offensive floor was Tyreke Evans, but at this point I think calling Tyreke his ceiling might be a bit ambitious.  Here's hoping. How often do the rondo's and smart's of the world go from weak to good shooters?

Smart is a better shooter right now than your giving him credit for. Its not like his shot is broken and useless or anything. The kid shot like 34% on a high volume of 3's last year. That's pretty dang mediocre, but its not so bad that it suggests he can't shoot. Actually, his shooting is good enough to hit 40% from deep with time and effort, which I fully trust Smart to put in.

You seem to forget that if TA had a semblence of an offensive game he would be an all-star. Smart is already better at nearly all offensive attributes (Shooting, driving/generating FT's, passing, handles) than TA has ever been and is certainly good enough to reach his level defensively in the near future. His impact is so large on all the other phases of the game that he doesn't have to be a 20-8-5 kinda guy to be a cornerstone player.

Re: Crowder and Smart: Good defenders but inefficient shooters
« Reply #23 on: October 31, 2015, 09:45:30 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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Tyreke Evans is a mediocre player.
yup... we will be lucky if smart develops into anything close to what Evans is on the offensive end.

Last season, Smart had a eFG% of .462 and a TS% of .491, while Evans was at .473/.508, so Smart is arguably at least close to as useful as Evans on the offensive end.
"The worst thing that ever happened in sports was sports radio, and the internet is sports radio on steroids with lower IQs.” -- Brian Burke, former Toronto Maple Leafs senior adviser, at the 2013 MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference

Re: Crowder and Smart: Good defenders but inefficient shooters
« Reply #24 on: October 31, 2015, 10:04:10 PM »

Offline chambers

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Smart is already a better player than the Celtics version of Tony Allen in my opinion.

He went from 29% 3 point shooting in college to 34% in the pros. That's a solid jump and there's no reason he won't get that up to 38% with some more work.

I think Marcus Smart's ceiling is something like Chauncey Billups but with more free throw attempts/conversions.
An All Star that affects the game on both ends, shoots the 3 ball well and scores 14-17ppg.
Just a solid All Round player that is a huge 'plus' when he's on the court.

The next step in the development of his NBA game is to start driving and drawing fouls.
in College it was his staple.
He,
*drew fouls at a 65% rate in college
*got to the free throw line 6 times a game and converted them at 75%

As an NBA rookie he
*drew fouls at a 26% rate
*only got to the line 2.5 times a game and converted them at 64%

Those numbers will improve, as will his 3 point %

Anyway, I strongly believe that they made him focus on understanding the offense and developing his 3 point shot as a rookie.

He's a great catch and shoot finisher. He's a great spot up jumpshooter- even in college his spot up jump shooting was excellent.

Soon enough he'll start driving to the hole and converting at the FT line.

His offensive potential and overall potential are lightyears higher than Tony Allen.
He's arguably already on par with Tony defensively and he's played 2 games into his second season!
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: Crowder and Smart: Good defenders but inefficient shooters
« Reply #25 on: October 31, 2015, 10:23:37 PM »

Offline chambers

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Chauncey Billups prime:

in 2004 and 2005 when they won the championship and made the finals he averaged:

Championship year in 2004- his 7th year in the NBA
16.9 points
5.8 assists
3.5 rebounds per game
39.4% FG
38.8% from 3 point land
1 steal

2005 his 8th year in the NBA
16.5 points
5.7 assists
3.4 rebounds
44.2 FG%
1 steal
42.6 3 point%

his best year in the NBA which was his 9th season (2006)
18.5 points
8.6 assists
3.1 rebounds
1 steal
41.8 FG%
43.3 3 point %


He also shot 31% from 3 as a rookie and 36% as a sophomore.
Just some food for thought
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: Crowder and Smart: Good defenders but inefficient shooters
« Reply #26 on: November 01, 2015, 01:13:51 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Tyreke Evans is a mediocre player.
yup... we will be lucky if smart develops into anything close to what Evans is on the offensive end.

Last season, Smart had a eFG% of .462 and a TS% of .491, while Evans was at .473/.508, so Smart is arguably at least close to as useful as Evans on the offensive end.

Yeah... in the same way that Anthony Morrow (.604 TS% .578 eFG%) is "arguably" at least close to as useful as James Harden (.605 TS% .511 eFG%)  ...

Or in the same way that Kyle Korver (.671 eFG%/.699 TS%) was "arguably" much more useful than fellow all-star Steph Curry (.594 eFG%/.638 TS%)

Re: Crowder and Smart: Good defenders but inefficient shooters
« Reply #27 on: November 01, 2015, 01:22:57 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Not to make excuses for Smart . But he seemed to shoot better at the beginning of Summer League , he was quite hot ......

Until he fell on his fingers on his shooting hand .

I can't help but think those finger are still not really right .   He has them taped up .....I could not shot well with my fingers locked together .

It's just an observation ,  to me his release is altered by the way he holds the ball now .   

Seems he can't catch a break .    The ankle was stiff and bother him last year.   It's obvious he is cutting and jumping better .  But now I think he is dealing with the fingers still. 
Smart never would admit till near season end his ankle was bothering him .   I suspect he is not wanting to let his opponents know his finger s are not healed either .

Maybe by Xmas he ll get well again to knock down his shots more,consistent.
A couple summer league games aside, we have seen enough to support the idea that Smart is just a weak offensive player at this point in his career.  Maybe he develops eventually but it's probably more likely he ends up a defensive role player like tony Allen.  He didn't show much progress over the second half of the season, summer league or preseason.  I think he will he a bit better though.  I can see him ending up like Rodney stuckey.  Hopefully he breaks out into something even better.
Smart might become a better version of Tony Allen, one that can actually shoot.
Yeah smart might develop into a mediocre shooter.   Coming into the draft I thought his offensive floor was Tyreke Evans, but at this point I think calling Tyreke his ceiling might be a bit ambitious.  Here's hoping. How often do the rondo's and smart's of the world go from weak to good shooters?

Smart is a better shooter right now than your giving him credit for. Its not like his shot is broken and useless or anything. The kid shot like 34% on a high volume of 3's last year. That's pretty dang mediocre, but its not so bad that it suggests he can't shoot. Actually, his shooting is good enough to hit 40% from deep with time and effort, which I fully trust Smart to put in.

You seem to forget that if TA had a semblence of an offensive game he would be an all-star. Smart is already better at nearly all offensive attributes (Shooting, driving/generating FT's, passing, handles) than TA has ever been and is certainly good enough to reach his level defensively in the near future. His impact is so large on all the other phases of the game that he doesn't have to be a 20-8-5 kinda guy to be a cornerstone player.

I get it... it's brought up all the time.  I'm supposed to be impressed that Marcus Smart was 142nd in 3P% amongst players that shot at least 2 three pointers per game last season. 

Whoop-te-doo... he shot 34% from three (32% after the all-star break).  Yay.   

It's also supposedly a sign of his offensive competence that his TS% was 280th amongst players who played at least 15 minutes per game last season. 

He's not good offensively.  Maybe/hopefully he gets there some day.  Probably not.

I will say that he impressed me in game 1... he played within the system, had some nice outlet passes, hit a couple shots.   He should be a solid contributor for many years.   If his offensive game evolves, I think it's reasonable that he could end up on a prime Rodney Stuckey level offensively. 

Is that a reasonable long-term hope?  Tony Allen's defense with Rodney Stuckey's offense (with maybe a slightly better 3-point shot)?
« Last Edit: November 01, 2015, 01:33:08 AM by LarBrd33 »

Re: Crowder and Smart: Good defenders but inefficient shooters
« Reply #28 on: November 01, 2015, 01:52:51 AM »

Offline LooseCannon

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Tyreke Evans is a mediocre player.
yup... we will be lucky if smart develops into anything close to what Evans is on the offensive end.

Last season, Smart had a eFG% of .462 and a TS% of .491, while Evans was at .473/.508, so Smart is arguably at least close to as useful as Evans on the offensive end.

Yeah... in the same way that Anthony Morrow (.604 TS% .578 eFG%) is "arguably" at least close to as useful as James Harden (.605 TS% .511 eFG%)  ...

Or in the same way that Kyle Korver (.671 eFG%/.699 TS%) was "arguably" much more useful than fellow all-star Steph Curry (.594 eFG%/.638 TS%)

But Evans isn't good, so Smart taking fewer shots might actually make him more useful on offense right now.
"The worst thing that ever happened in sports was sports radio, and the internet is sports radio on steroids with lower IQs.” -- Brian Burke, former Toronto Maple Leafs senior adviser, at the 2013 MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference

Re: Crowder and Smart: Good defenders but inefficient shooters
« Reply #29 on: November 01, 2015, 01:14:10 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Tyreke Evans is a mediocre player.
yup... we will be lucky if smart develops into anything close to what Evans is on the offensive end.

Last season, Smart had a eFG% of .462 and a TS% of .491, while Evans was at .473/.508, so Smart is arguably at least close to as useful as Evans on the offensive end.

Yeah... in the same way that Anthony Morrow (.604 TS% .578 eFG%) is "arguably" at least close to as useful as James Harden (.605 TS% .511 eFG%)  ...

Or in the same way that Kyle Korver (.671 eFG%/.699 TS%) was "arguably" much more useful than fellow all-star Steph Curry (.594 eFG%/.638 TS%)

But Evans isn't good, so Smart taking fewer shots might actually make him more useful on offense right now.
c'mon