Who looks better so far- KO or Sully?

[PhoSita]

KO and it's not close.


I don't think either is a long term answer at either big spot, BUT I'd rather keep Kelly because he's the kind of guy who can help a good team win by doing pretty much whatever the team needs apart from protecting the rim.

Obviously you trade him if some other team looks at him as a key piece in a trade package.  But ideally I'd like to hold onto Smart, Crowder, Olynyk, and Zeller on the way to getting a star, because those guys can help.  Perhaps a couple of the rookies this year can become versatile, useful role players as well.

[Rosco917]

Kelly is the harder worker and it's showing. Sully talked about a big change in his body, but it looks like the same player to me. The C's can't afford to hold onto both these limited, similar type players.

I would never sign Sully to anything but a team friendly contract, if he has an injury free, solid season that is.

[Evantime34]

The offense flows so much better when Kelly is on the court than Sully. KO bothers me sometimes in that he passes up a shot to drive into the defense and then pass it, but if even that drive doesn't directly result in a quality shot it makes the defense move which helps the offense.

Sully clogging up the paint isn't as valuable as Kelly's ability to create an open shot, even if Sully is a better post scorer and rebounder.

It also helps that Sully is still heavy and Kelly is in much better shape than when he came into the league.

[danglertx]

KO and it's not close.


I don't think either is a long term answer at either big spot, BUT I'd rather keep Kelly because he's the kind of guy who can help a good team win by doing pretty much whatever the team needs apart from protecting the rim.

Obviously you trade him if some other team looks at him as a key piece in a trade package.  But ideally I'd like to hold onto Smart, Crowder, Olynyk, and Zeller on the way to getting a star, because those guys can help.  Perhaps a couple of the rookies this year can become versatile, useful role players as well.

I'd pretty much concur with that.  KO isn't going to be a superstar, ever, but he is a good role player.  How many guys can score but don't feel the need to?  He lets the game come to him, sets picks, tries on D, runs the floor and moves the ball.  You NEED guys like that.  What you don't need is inefficient players who think they are superstars, which is what happened to Big Baby.  He got away from the being the role player he is, and started trying to be the scoring 4 he isn't.  I think he is without a team now.  Worst thing that ever happened to him was hitting that game winner from the corner.

[Csfan1984]

Just another thought on Sully. He is supposed to be trying to get in good shape and he is in a real battle for role and minutes so why isn't he busting his butt up and down the court. I would be sprinting every time the ball changes hands no matter what. Just simply running as much as possible will get him good shots, more minutes, in better shape, prove conditioning, and help the team. Run Sully run .

[danglertx]

Just another thought on Sully. He is supposed to be trying to get in good shape and he is in a real battle for role and minutes so why isn't he busting his butt up and down the court. I would be sprinting every time the ball changes hands no matter what. Just simply running as much as possible will get him good shots, more minutes, in better shape, prove conditioning, and help the team. Run Sully run .

I get that and agree but when you are trailing, which he usually is, not necessarily because he is lazy or slow but because he was under the basket rebounding, you can't just sprint up the floor, you have last one back responsibilities.  I will say there are a lot of times it doesn't seem like he is in all out hustle mode though.

[Csfan1984]

Just another thought on Sully. He is supposed to be trying to get in good shape and he is in a real battle for role and minutes so why isn't he busting his butt up and down the court. I would be sprinting every time the ball changes hands no matter what. Just simply running as much as possible will get him good shots, more minutes, in better shape, prove conditioning, and help the team. Run Sully run .

I get that and agree but when you are trailing, which he usually is, not necessarily because he is lazy or slow but because he was under the basket rebounding, you can't just sprint up the floor, you have last one back responsibilities.  I will say there are a lot of times it doesn't seem like he is in all out hustle mode though.

I never believe in last one back responsibilities. You run and if you see a play on the ball you react and get back. It's just poor conditioning, IQ, or effort if you can't get back.

[KeepRondo]

Anyone else notice how Sully was actually hustlng last game? Hopefully this a sign of good things for him cause he certainly has a lot more skill then Olynyk, but deserves to sit if he's not being active on the court.

[Vermont Green]

I think it is not so much about who looks better right now but rather who is showing the most improvement.  Kelly is continuing to trend in the right direction whereas Sullinger seems to hit a wall and hasn't shown any improvement for over a year (and maybe even some regression).

I think Sullinger is still be more talented player right now but not for long if he doesn't snap out of whatever funk he seems to be in.

[danglertx]

Just another thought on Sully. He is supposed to be trying to get in good shape and he is in a real battle for role and minutes so why isn't he busting his butt up and down the court. I would be sprinting every time the ball changes hands no matter what. Just simply running as much as possible will get him good shots, more minutes, in better shape, prove conditioning, and help the team. Run Sully run .

I get that and agree but when you are trailing, which he usually is, not necessarily because he is lazy or slow but because he was under the basket rebounding, you can't just sprint up the floor, you have last one back responsibilities.  I will say there are a lot of times it doesn't seem like he is in all out hustle mode though.

I never believe in last one back responsibilities. You run and if you see a play on the ball you react and get back. It's just poor conditioning, IQ, or effort if you can't get back.

Well, believe in it or not, that is the way basketball is taught from middle school on.  I'd think it is even more important in the pros since these players can easily make full court passes where as in middle and high school, not so much. 

Since middle school I learned ball to the middle, fill a wing, trailer to the free throw line and last guy back don't let anyone behind you. 

[Csfan1984]

Just another thought on Sully. He is supposed to be trying to get in good shape and he is in a real battle for role and minutes so why isn't he busting his butt up and down the court. I would be sprinting every time the ball changes hands no matter what. Just simply running as much as possible will get him good shots, more minutes, in better shape, prove conditioning, and help the team. Run Sully run .

I get that and agree but when you are trailing, which he usually is, not necessarily because he is lazy or slow but because he was under the basket rebounding, you can't just sprint up the floor, you have last one back responsibilities.  I will say there are a lot of times it doesn't seem like he is in all out hustle mode though.

I never believe in last one back responsibilities. You run and if you see a play on the ball you react and get back. It's just poor conditioning, IQ, or effort if you can't get back.

Well, believe in it or not, that is the way basketball is taught from middle school on.  I'd think it is even more important in the pros since these players can easily make full court passes where as in middle and high school, not so much. 

Since middle school I learned ball to the middle, fill a wing, trailer to the free throw line and last guy back don't let anyone behind you.

I was taught the same but it was based on if the other team had faster players. If they didn't you ran them out the gym. Still these are pro athletes most players are very close in speed unless they are named Sully. But even with Sully if the wings do get back to fill their spots appropriately they can easily transition back and become the rear defense. We see it all the time in the NBA. Sully is flat out dogging it.

[nickagneta]

Just another thought on Sully. He is supposed to be trying to get in good shape and he is in a real battle for role and minutes so why isn't he busting his butt up and down the court. I would be sprinting every time the ball changes hands no matter what. Just simply running as much as possible will get him good shots, more minutes, in better shape, prove conditioning, and help the team. Run Sully run .

I get that and agree but when you are trailing, which he usually is, not necessarily because he is lazy or slow but because he was under the basket rebounding, you can't just sprint up the floor, you have last one back responsibilities.  I will say there are a lot of times it doesn't seem like he is in all out hustle mode though.

I never believe in last one back responsibilities. You run and if you see a play on the ball you react and get back. It's just poor conditioning, IQ, or effort if you can't get back.

Well, believe in it or not, that is the way basketball is taught from middle school on.  I'd think it is even more important in the pros since these players can easily make full court passes where as in middle and high school, not so much. 

Since middle school I learned ball to the middle, fill a wing, trailer to the free throw line and last guy back don't let anyone behind you.

Straight up correct. If Sully closes on a three pointer and it misses then run, Sully, run. If he is under the basket guarding a big when the shot goes up doesn't go in, if he gets the rebound and outlets or is tied up with the opposing big, he has last man responsibilities. That's good fundamental basketball. When does anyone ever see Duncan or Howard or other very good to great centers/PFs always sprinting up and down court and ignoring their duty to guard against an easy fast break basket if there is a turnover?

Just running all the time at full sprint and ignoring your responsibilities on when to be last or when to get on the wing or when to be the lead man on the break, is just stupid basketball. Let's not confuse smart basketball with laziness, though last year late in games, Sully was lazy. But thus far in these three preseason games I haven't seen laziness from Sully. I have seen effort and hustle and better cardiovascular capabilities. He may not be thin but he is definitely moving better and not being lazy.

[jambr380]

Just another thought on Sully. He is supposed to be trying to get in good shape and he is in a real battle for role and minutes so why isn't he busting his butt up and down the court. I would be sprinting every time the ball changes hands no matter what. Just simply running as much as possible will get him good shots, more minutes, in better shape, prove conditioning, and help the team. Run Sully run .

I get that and agree but when you are trailing, which he usually is, not necessarily because he is lazy or slow but because he was under the basket rebounding, you can't just sprint up the floor, you have last one back responsibilities.  I will say there are a lot of times it doesn't seem like he is in all out hustle mode though.

I never believe in last one back responsibilities. You run and if you see a play on the ball you react and get back. It's just poor conditioning, IQ, or effort if you can't get back.

Well, believe in it or not, that is the way basketball is taught from middle school on.  I'd think it is even more important in the pros since these players can easily make full court passes where as in middle and high school, not so much. 

Since middle school I learned ball to the middle, fill a wing, trailer to the free throw line and last guy back don't let anyone behind you.

Straight up correct. If Sully closes on a three pointer and it misses then run, Sully, run. If he is under the basket guarding a big when the shot goes up doesn't go in, if he gets the rebound and outlets or is tied up with the opposing big, he has last man responsibilities. That's good fundamental basketball. When does anyone ever see Duncan or Howard or other very good to great centers/PFs always sprinting up and down court and ignoring their duty to guard against an easy fast break basket if there is a turnover?

Just running all the time at full sprint and ignoring your responsibilities on when to be last or when to get on the wing or when to be the lead man on the break, is just stupid basketball. Let's not confuse smart basketball with laziness, though last year late in games, Sully was lazy. But thus far in these three preseason games I haven't seen laziness from Sully. I have seen effort and hustle and better cardiovascular capabilities. He may not be thin but he is definitely moving better and not being lazy.

I don't know - my pt in high school grew exponentially when I grabbed a rebound and ran my butt off (compared to just being the trail man). Typically your guards will handle the safety spot, especially on non-fast breaks.

Regardless if Sully is doing what he is 'supposed' to do, I think there would be a lot more positivity around him if he would occasionally go all-out and show he is totally in the game. Playing lackadaisically 100% of the time rarely makes a good impression.

[SHAQATTACK]

Anytime Sully shoots outside 18 ft , there should be a electrical shock treatment .   Telling him to launch threes is like feeding him twinkles .   Just emphasizes his laziness to get in shape .

I'm now not sure he can control his weight or eating or work out . 

I'm inclined to keep KO , at least he seems to be improving and looking more professional .

[Celtics4ever]

Anytime Sully shoots outside 18 ft , there should be a electrical shock treatment .   Telling him to launch threes is like feeding him twinkles .   Just emphasizes his laziness to get in shape .

  I have often though he takes them sometimes because he does not have to run the full court.   

I'm now not sure he can control his weight or eating or work out . 

I'm inclined to keep KO , at least he seems to be improving and looking more professional .

I feel the same way, I also do not think KO is a poor example to the rookies.

I don't know - my pt in high school grew exponentially when I grabbed a rebound and ran my butt off (compared to just being the trail man). Typically your guards will handle the safety spot, especially on non-fast breaks.

Regardless if Sully is doing what he is 'supposed' to do, I think there would be a lot more positivity around him if he would occasionally go all-out and show he is totally in the game.

Your always better off being mobile in basketball than not.   Every step you move is a step that will wear at the man guarding you.   If you have done your conditioning this can be a tremendous edge late in the game.

I was impressed his first preseason game,   I though maybe there was some hope.   He was really moving without the ball in that game.   His D was bad, but that will always be an issue with him.   I was especially cringing when David Lee and he were the court together it was a fast break layup attack the rim time for Milan.  But that effort he showed in the first game, was not there in the second two.   Sometimes a guy sees the lack of light at the end of the tunnel and gives up.  If he tried and he deserved ( I am a harsh detractor too, of Sully) more time after that first game, and it didn't happen then he may have thought was is the use.   I could see a demand or request for a trade coming up.

Straight up correct. If Sully closes on a three pointer and it misses then run, Sully, run. If he is under the basket guarding a big when the shot goes up doesn't go in, if he gets the rebound and outlets or is tied up with the opposing big, he has last man responsibilities. That's good fundamental basketball. When does anyone ever see Duncan or Howard or other very good to great centers/PFs always sprinting up and down court and ignoring their duty to guard against an easy fast break basket if there is a turnover?

 

 One thing with this nickagneta, is these guys are all better runners than Sully is in all honestly.  He does not always do these things, rarely, but even if he does do it , it is compromised by his poor 3/4 sprint time.

Duncan was not tested but Howard ran the sprint in 3.14 seconds.  Sullinger ran in in 3.81.   More than half a second difference.  Sully was tied for worst in his class, BTW.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1243048-nba-draft-2012-weird-draft-combine-results-you-may-not-know-about

http://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/more-sports/freakiest-combine-performances-ever-nfl-and-nba/21797475/

This sortable list is a great illustration if you go 3/4 spring under PF and Sully is the 15th worst of all time on the list since they been tracking it in PFs.  Most of the guys below him are nobodys.

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements.php?year=All&sort2=DESC&draft=0&pos=4&source=All&sort=16

Even if he did run, he would be one of the slowest out there.   That being said, I think he has some elite skills on the boards, that no one will be able to take off him and some nice hands.

He is the lowest all time from PF in the top 30

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements.php?page=&year=All&source=All&sort2=DESC&draft=30&pos=4&sort=16