You want Proof. You Can't handle the Proof! C's rebuilding fast.

[Vermont Green]

It's impressive how much is packed into that two sentence post.  Says a lot about how much we overvalue Celtics players around here, and how much Grizzlies players are undervalued outside of Memphis, despite the success that team has had.

Add Marc Gasol, Rudy Gay, and Tony Allen (actually I would rather have Avery Bradley over Allen) to Smart and Sullinger and I think the Celtics would have success too.  Conley and Randolph are better right now than Smart and Sullinger but I don't think second year Conley and third year Randolph were any better than the current versions of Smart and Sullinger.

[Celtics4ever]

That would be pretty impressive (and I think speaks to the degree that Conley and Z-Bo are underrated around the league)

Also, extremely, unlikely.

[D.o.s.]

^Agreed.

VG, I see where you're coming from, and I mostly agree with your second point.

I do think that the tendency to envision a team like the Grizzlies as being an ideal team that the modern core of the C's can grow into is a good one -- i.e. A tough defensive team that has enough talent to beat any team in the league over seven games if the ball bounces the right way. I think most of us would be pretty happy with that.

I think that in order for that to happen, though, pretty much every single player on our roster would have to hit their ceilings (and, in some cases, blow their perceived ceilings out of the water). I would love to watch a baby-steps version of Memphis East this season, I just don't think the talent gap is being properly accounted for by some (not you).

[PhoSita]

It's impressive how much is packed into that two sentence post.  Says a lot about how much we overvalue Celtics players around here, and how much Grizzlies players are undervalued outside of Memphis, despite the success that team has had.

Add Marc Gasol, Rudy Gay, and Tony Allen (actually I would rather have Avery Bradley over Allen) to Smart and Sullinger and I think the Celtics would have success too.  Conley and Randolph are better right now than Smart and Sullinger but I don't think second year Conley and third year Randolph were any better than the current versions of Smart and Sullinger.

Rudy Gay is one guy who I think would be beloved and regarded as the successor to Paul Pierce if he had spent most of his career here.  Because he's been on teams like the Grizz, Raptors, and Kings, he's instead looked at as an empty-numbers guy who isn't particularly good.

[PhoSita]

I would love to watch a baby-steps version of Memphis East this season, I just don't think the talent gap is being properly accounted for by some (not you).

I'm hopeful that we will see some more teams attempt to get some success with a two-post system like the one the Grizz uses, coupled with a tough defensive mentality.

At the same time, the bar is set so high for success with that method in today's league, given the prevalence and importance of the three point shot, that I don't want to see the Celts attempt it.  Despite how good the Grizz are, they still struggle so mightily just to score points at times.

Focusing on building a young team with an emphasis on tough defense is something I would like the Celtics to do, though.  I really like what the Jazz, Bucks, and the Magic have done in their rebuilds. 

Taking the next step will be challenging for each of those teams, but they each have the raw material in place for a team that can win 50+ games for a good stretch of time.

[KG Living Legend]

By what criteria is the rebuild "fast," though?

Sure, the team isn't awful.  Danny's done a great job collecting a bunch of assets.  Stevens has done a good job getting them to play together.

The Celts are no closer to a long term core that can truly compete than, say, the 76ers.  The Sixers might actually be closer, if Okafor is the real deal.

My criteria for how "fast" the rebuild is going, or when the rebuild will be "done," is tied to how long it takes them to get that competitive core in place.  I don't particularly care how quickly they've managed to assemble a collection of disparate middle of the road pieces.   

Danny has done a good job amassing a pure quantity of assets.  Let's wait and see if it actually ends up being more useful for reconstructing a quality team than the strategies that other rebuilding teams have used.

Like everyone else is saying, 2-3 legitimate stars and we'll have a good shot at making noise in the playoffs, at least.

In the Eastern Conference, 2-3 'legitimate stars' pretty much guarantees you have a good shot at making noise in the playoffs, regardless of your supporting cast.

Saying the team is a couple of stars away from being good is more or less stating a truism about all NBA teams.







You don't see how the Celtics are ahead of the 76ers? Well I do. People say big-time free agents don't come here, I'll tell you this, they week come here long before Okafor develops, or Embiid gets healthy. That team is a joke and will be for a long time.

[ManUp]

Smart I have high hopes for, Sullinger could be a fringe all-star like a Boozer or Paul Milsap, but other than those two our young guys have a mostly average to low ceiling. Smart has the highest potential of all our players. He is big, strong, and athletic with a warrior mentality. His first year he didn't do what he's been doing his whole career which is driving the ball and attacking the rim effectively. His potential is directly linked to whether or not he can get back to doing that in the NBA. Some people are saying he's to slow to get by people and I'm not buy it, only time will tell

Rozier is a wild card his speed combined with NBA rules(no hand check & 3 seconds) could make him better in the league then he was in college. He might find it easier getting into the paint and creating havoc. RJ Hunter screams Mike Miller to me. Solid Starter but even better bench guy. Mickey I think is definitely going to be solid rotation guy on a good team and fringe starter everywhere else. I see him as a Brandon Bass or Carl Landry level guy if we're luck a shorter Kenyon Martin. With James Young I see a potential Nick Young 2.0 (with a possibly better attitude and rebounding less confidence). If he learns to defend he could be a starter, if he doesn't he could be a 6th man. This is all predicated on his shot starting to fall, of course.

Other then Marcus Smart and Sully I see fringe starters and role players. For the most part they look like safe picks, but Danny needs to get some more high potential guys. Especially if finding talented players willing to sign with us is going to be difficult. We need to get our hands on guys with higher ceilings instead of playing it safe with our picks.

[LarBrd33]

No stars added. But to see how fast this roster is turning over for the positive is impressive. The cut to get down to 15 isn't easy this year.
 Here is a look at the end of the roster the 13-14 season.

 Joel Anthony, Victor Faverini, Vander Blue, Chris Babb, Chris Johnson "played 20 mpg", Marshan Brooks, Phil Pressey, Gerald Wallace.

 That's 8 bad NBA players to choose from at the start of the season. And the top of the roster didn't look that good either.

 Rondo, Bradley, Sully,Green, Kelly,Humphries, Bass

 Out of those players we still have the three best Young players in Bradley, Sully, and Kelly. Hard not to admit that Ainge has made the second half our roster 10 times better.
 And the core of    Thomas, Smart, Bradley, Sully, Amir, Lee, Zeller, Crowder is much improved as well.
 Playing the cards he's dealt Danny is doing a heck of a job.

Depth in the NBA is overrated.   All you need is LeBron James and some scrubs and you'll make the Finals.   Having slightly above average bench talent from 5-10 doesn't really matter. 

I do agree that we have some ok talent here, though.   Definitely need to make some big swings at the trade market at some point.  Brad Stevens has his work cut out for him this season.  I can see us winning anything from 32 to 45 wins.

[ahonui06]

No stars added. But to see how fast this roster is turning over for the positive is impressive. The cut to get down to 15 isn't easy this year.
 Here is a look at the end of the roster the 13-14 season.

 Joel Anthony, Victor Faverini, Vander Blue, Chris Babb, Chris Johnson "played 20 mpg", Marshan Brooks, Phil Pressey, Gerald Wallace.

 That's 8 bad NBA players to choose from at the start of the season. And the top of the roster didn't look that good either.

 Rondo, Bradley, Sully,Green, Kelly,Humphries, Bass

 Out of those players we still have the three best Young players in Bradley, Sully, and Kelly. Hard not to admit that Ainge has made the second half our roster 10 times better.
 And the core of    Thomas, Smart, Bradley, Sully, Amir, Lee, Zeller, Crowder is much improved as well.
 Playing the cards he's dealt Danny is doing a heck of a job.

Depth in the NBA is overrated.   All you need is LeBron James and some scrubs and you'll make the Finals.   Having slightly above average bench talent from 5-10 doesn't really matter. 

I do agree that we have some ok talent here, though.   Definitely need to make some big swings at the trade market at some point.  Brad Stevens has his work cut out for him this season.  I can see us winning anything from 32 to 45 wins.

Sad but true. Superstar talent will overpower depth every single time.

[Evantime34]

No stars added. But to see how fast this roster is turning over for the positive is impressive. The cut to get down to 15 isn't easy this year.
 Here is a look at the end of the roster the 13-14 season.

 Joel Anthony, Victor Faverini, Vander Blue, Chris Babb, Chris Johnson "played 20 mpg", Marshan Brooks, Phil Pressey, Gerald Wallace.

 That's 8 bad NBA players to choose from at the start of the season. And the top of the roster didn't look that good either.

 Rondo, Bradley, Sully,Green, Kelly,Humphries, Bass

 Out of those players we still have the three best Young players in Bradley, Sully, and Kelly. Hard not to admit that Ainge has made the second half our roster 10 times better.
 And the core of    Thomas, Smart, Bradley, Sully, Amir, Lee, Zeller, Crowder is much improved as well.
 Playing the cards he's dealt Danny is doing a heck of a job.

Depth in the NBA is overrated.   All you need is LeBron James and some scrubs and you'll make the Finals.   Having slightly above average bench talent from 5-10 doesn't really matter. 

I do agree that we have some ok talent here, though.   Definitely need to make some big swings at the trade market at some point.  Brad Stevens has his work cut out for him this season.  I can see us winning anything from 32 to 45 wins.

Is depth overrated? I feel like everyone thinks depth is less important than stars, so I'm not sure who is rating it too high. If anything I think depth is underrated, because most fans think there is no chance to win without a star.

If the Celtics outperform expectations, then depth will be a big reason why. If the Celtics outperform the expectations of media and fans based off of depth then it is by definition underrated.

[TheTruthFot18]

Is depth overrated? I feel like everyone thinks depth is less important than stars, so I'm not sure who is rating it too high. If anything I think depth is underrated, because most fans think there is no chance to win without a star.

A start will give you the better chance tot get to that next level. Conference Finals/ Finals contenders.

Then again having a star with little to no depth can leave you falling short. See the early years with Lebron in Cleveland, Melo after the first year with NYK, Kobe between 2004 and 2008. 

[Celtics4ever]

If the Celtics outperform expectations, then depth will be a big reason why.

I think CBS is the reason why, guys play hard for him.

[LarBrd33]

If the Celtics outperform expectations, then depth will be a big reason why.

I think CBS is the reason why, guys play hard for him.

Injuries, addition by subtraction, and clearly defined roles were major contributors to our success last year.   I've never seen a successful team play 12 guys a night.   Right now we have some pretty major log jams that will need to be cleared up...  until then, you might struggle with inconsistency as redundant talent like Zeller, Amir, Sully, Lee, Oly and Jerebko (and maybe even Mickey) all scramble for a taste of minutes.

[Evantime34]

If the Celtics outperform expectations, then depth will be a big reason why.

I think CBS is the reason why, guys play hard for him.

Injuries, addition by subtraction, and clearly defined roles were major contributors to our success last year.   I've never seen a successful team play 12 guys a night.   Right now we have some pretty major log jams that will need to be cleared up...  until then, you might struggle with inconsistency as redundant talent like Zeller, Amir, Sully, Lee, Oly and Jerebko (and maybe even Mickey) all scramble for a taste of minutes.

For most of the season Stevens stuck to a 10 man rotation (this is at least how I remember it). I think it's less likely Stevens tries to play 12 guys to start the season. I expect him to pick 10 and have that be the rotation out of the gate, while telling the guys who aren't playing to stay ready.

Stevens was able to keep everyone engaged last year, and everyone eventually got a chance to play. I think we will need to see this skill again this year.

[LHR]

If the Celtics outperform expectations, then depth will be a big reason why.

I think CBS is the reason why, guys play hard for him.

Injuries, addition by subtraction, and clearly defined roles were major contributors to our success last year.   I've never seen a successful team play 12 guys a night.   Right now we have some pretty major log jams that will need to be cleared up...  until then, you might struggle with inconsistency as redundant talent like Zeller, Amir, Sully, Lee, Oly and Jerebko (and maybe even Mickey) all scramble for a taste of minutes.

For most of the season Stevens stuck to a 10 man rotation (this is at least how I remember it). I think it's less likely Stevens tries to play 12 guys to start the season. I expect him to pick 10 and have that be the rotation out of the gate, while telling the guys who aren't playing to stay ready.

Stevens was able to keep everyone engaged last year, and everyone eventually got a chance to play. I think we will need to see this skill again this year.

That, I thought, was really impressive.  The team was miserable - 19-31 at one point - but there were few clunkers.  The team did scrap.  But they also weren't really able to turn that corner until some of the clutter was cleaned out.

I am concerned about that this year.  Not only is there a glut along the front line, but almost all of those players are playing for contracts.  One player (David Lee) demanded a trade from the defending champions because he wants to have a good individual season so he can make one last run at a big contract.  I am worried that if they don't get the playing time they believe they are warranted to, there could be some unhappy campers which hopefully doesn't have a collective effect on the rest of the morale of the team.