Undrafted Players who put up similar/better SL stats to RJ Hunter

[DarkAzcura]

The problem with this thread is that Summer League is not about stats. 

Summer league is about how a player moves, and if you can see flashes of what a player can do.

Oh I see... So the 140+ players (42 of which were undrafted semi-pros) who outperformed Hunter did so while not moving or showing flashes?  Got it.

If those players failed the eye test it's because you weren't watching them. That's the point.

Definition of outperformed is simply putting up numbers? It's gone over year after year pretty much. Most people get excited based on how a player plays within the offensive sets and how good their intangibles look. Isn't your point that stats are meaningless in the summer league? Doesn't that mean it is possible for a player to put up gaudy stats but understand that the player probably won't find that type of success in the NBA based on how he put those numbers up?

Hunter moved well off the ball. Understood when to cut and when not to cut. Showed range beyond the 3PT line. He knew when to pass the ball and when to take it to the hoop on a fast break, which is surprisingly a skill a lot of players lack. He showed skills that appear transferable to the NBA regardless of his numbers. I'm sure some of the players who outperformed him stats wise did also, but I like what I saw from Hunter IQ wise, and that's all anyone is saying.

We've had these same conversations with players like Rondo, Sullinger, Olynyk, Jefferson, and Smart now. More often than not if you aren't looking at the numbers, you can tell which players in the summer league will actually have some type of role.

I remember Telfair vs Rondo in the summer league. Telfair and Rondo put up similar numbers if I remember correctly; however, Telfair was doing completely unrealistic things with the ball. He was doing 360, reverse spin no look passes on fastbreaks. Stuff that would never happen in the NBA. Rondo was making simple passes and following the scheme to a key slicing the defense up in the half court. There was a clear difference in their understanding of the game even though they put up similar numbers in the summer league.

[D.o.s.]

Yeah, and obviously we should have gone with Bassy. 

[DarkAzcura]

Yeah, and obviously we should have gone with Bassy. 

lol, true.  But yeah, Telfair was one of the first players who made me really understand what I should actually try to take out of summer league when I watch players play.

[D.o.s.]

Definitely -- for me Telfair has always been a bit emblematic of the differences between what I like to see in a basketball player contrasted with what works on the basketball court, at least as far as the Celtics are concerned. But, of course, Rondo soon added his own flair to the game once the game's started to count.

I'm just a sucker for players with steez, what can I say?

[chambers]

LarBrd33 here's a good question for you:

Would you rather Bismarck Biyombo here for 4 years on a cheap/reasonable deal or...
We draft RJ Hunter with the #28?

[RockinRyA]

Next edition: Undrafted Players who put up similar/better SL stats to Marcus Thornton.

[LarBrd33]

LarBrd33 here's a good question for you:

Would you rather Bismarck Biyombo here for 4 years on a cheap/reasonable deal or...
We draft RJ Hunter with the #28?

Right now I'd go with biyombo. He's played NBA minutes and he's been effective as a defensive role player.  He even proved to be a serviceable player in 18 games as a starter last year.  He's also about the same age.  Hunter might never play a meaningful NBA minute.   Track record on guys picked that late isn't great.  If he struggles in d league like he struggled in summer league, he might wash out of the league faster than Fab Melo.

Hunter might have a long term future... So might any of those 140+ players who outperformed him in summer league.  Too soon to tell.  He's got a long road ahead of him.

[oldtype]

You could probably compile a similarly extensive list of "productive NBA players who had similar/worse SL stats to RJ Hunter." 

SL stats just don't provide a lot of information in general, and at this point it's impossible for anyone to know with any reasonable certainty whether Hunter will be a good player or not. 

Given that, it's hard to blame people who prefer to be hopeful.

[LarBrd33]

You could probably compile a similarly extensive list of "productive NBA players who had similar/worse SL stats to RJ Hunter." 

SL stats just don't provide a lot of information in general, and at this point it's impossible for anyone to know with any reasonable certainty whether Hunter will be a good player or not. 

Given that, it's hard to blame people who prefer to be hopeful.

Nothing wrong with being hopeful. I hope our rookies end up great too.  I don't expect it though. I expect them to spend all their time in d league.  As of right now, I can't say that Charlotte made a mistake when they turned down all three 2015 picks + some unprotected Brooklyn picks.   Let's see if Danny is proven wrong for offering it.  Let's see if the hornets are proven wrong for rejecting it.

Will Winslow (or kaminsky) end up a greater asset than Mickey, hosier, Hunter and the unprotected Brooklyn pick combined ?  Probably.  Hence why Danny offered it and Jordan rejected it.

[Smitty77]

Lot of people still seem overly excited about RJ Hunter.  Just for reference, here's a list of undrafted scrubs who put up similar/better stats to RJ Hunter in summer league.  I excluded players who did enough in College to get drafted. 

Code: [Select]

Name        EFF    POS G m/g p/g r/g a/g s/g b/g
Justin Dentmon 19.00 PG 5 24.7 17.0 2.2 2.6 2.8 0.2
DJ Kennedy 18.25 SG 4 29.2 13.8 7.5 2.3 2.8 0.3
Troy Daniels 16.75 SG 4 30.7 13.5 7.8 2.5 0.5 0.0
Glen Rice    16.40 SF 5 29.9 19.0 4.6 2.6 2.4 0.0
Keith Appling 15.60 PG 5 26.3 15.6 1.2 3.0 3.0 0.2
Willie Reed 15.33 SF 9 24.1 10.6 7.8 1.0 0.3 1.2
Sean Kilpatrick 15.00 SG 6 28.7 18.2 3.2 0.8 1.5 0.3
Malcolm Thomas 15.00 SF 6 24.9 11.8 5.8 0.7 0.7 1.2
Victor Rudd 14.83 SF 6 27.1 12.5 6.8 1.5 0.8 0.5
Mike James 14.71 PG 7 25.3 12.6 4.3 3.9 1.7 0.4
Alan Williams 14.71 C 7 19.6 12.1 7.7 1.1 0.6 0.3
Shawn Jones 14.67 PF 6 19.6 9.7 7.8 0.7 0.3 1.0
Scotty Hopson 14.60 SG 5 26.1 15.4 5.2 2.2 1.2 0.4
G. Whittington 14.56 SF 9 24.5 9.1 6.2 2.0 1.4 1.3
Khem Birch 14.44 PF 9 22.6 7.9 7.2 0.6 0.2 2.8
Bryce Cotton     14.25 PG 8 26.5 15.4 3.9 3.8 1.3 0.0
James McAdoo 13.80 PF 5 25.5 16.4 6.0 1.8 0.8 0.8
Jarrid Famous 13.60 PF 5 20.3 10.2 6.8 0.4 0.6 0.4
J. Simmons 13.50 PG 10 25.0 15.5 4.2 2.4 1.4 0.4
Jabari Brown 13.33 SG 3 30.5 17.7 3.3 1.3 1.0 0.3
Ronald Roberts 13.25 PF 4 23.6 10.3 9.5 0.8 0.5 0.3
DJ Newbill         13.25 SG 4 28.3 10.3 3.5 2.8 2.8 0.0
Edy Tavares 13.00 C 6 20.5 7.2 6.7 0.3 0.3 2.8
Ian Clark    12.80 SG 5 25.6 13.4 2.8 3.4 1.6 0.6
R Galloway 12.67 PG 6 25.3 10.7 3.0 4.8 1.8 0.3
Melvin Ejim 12.40 SF 5 30.1 9.2 6.8 1.6 1.0 0.0
Scott Machado 12.33 SG 6 22.3 10.5 3.3 3.8 1.7 0.3
Micheal Eric       11.67 PF 6 23.3 6.2 8.0 0.8 0.7 3.2
Jack Cooley 11.25 PF 8 19.5 7.9 6.9 0.4 0.8 0.8
Tim Frazier 11.00 PG 6 30.7 9.8 4.2 7.5 0.3 0.0
Jorge Gutierrez 10.67 SG 6 27.5 6.5 2.8 6.2 2.7 0.2
Kevin Jones 10.25 PF 8 20.0 10.5 5.5 0.4 0.3 0.0
Jared Berggren 10.20 C 5 25.3 5.2 5.0 0.8 0.2 1.8
Brian Qvale 10.20 C 5 21.6 6.0 5.2 1.4 1.0 1.6
Fuquan Edwin 10.17 SF 6 20.5 11.2 2.5 0.7 1.0 0.5
John Shurna 10.00 SF 5 18.3 8.8 4.0 1.0 0.8 0.8
DJ Seeley    10.00 SG 5 22.4 10.8 3.4 2.6 1.4 0.2
D. Sutton    10.00 SF 6 22.1 10.2 5.0 1.3 2.2 0.3
Diante Garrett 10.00 PG 11 23.8 9.9 2.5 4.0 1.1 0.4
Matt Bouldin 10.00 SG 5 20.8 10.4 3.4 1.8 1.4 0.0
Kelsey Barlow    9.50  SG 2 14.0 7.0 2.0 2.5 0.5 0.5
L. Galloway 9.50  SG 4 31.2 9.8 5.5 1.5 1.0 0.3
Chris Johnson 9.43  SF 7 23.9 8.3 3.3 1.9 1.3 1.0
RJ Hunter  9.38  SG 8 22.4 12.0 2.8 1.3 0.6 0.3
CJ Fair        9.38  SF 8 18.5 7.9 4.8 1.3 0.4 0.4
Vander Blue 9.17  SG 6 27.4 7.8 5.2 2.8 0.7 0.0
Jarell Eddie 9.17  SF 12 24.4 10.9 3.3 0.5 0.3 0.5
Casey Prather 9.00  SF 3 16.9 8.7 5.3 1.0 0.0 0.0
John Bohannon 9.00  C 5 22.0 6.2 5.4 1.4 0.4 1.0
JaMychal Green 9.00  SF 1 5.5 10.0 0.0 0.0 1.0 0.0
Manuel Atkins 9.00  SF 2 12.2 6.5 3.5 0.5 0.5 1.0

I bet you could take two of those players and COMBINE their basketball IQ and Hunter's would STILL be HIGHER!!!!

I liked what I saw of his IQ and how he moved WITHOUT the ball.  I see potential greatness in him ala Reggie Miller (best case scenario).

I will keep our STEAL at 28!!!!

Smitty77

[Smitty77]

You could probably compile a similarly extensive list of "productive NBA players who had similar/worse SL stats to RJ Hunter." 

SL stats just don't provide a lot of information in general, and at this point it's impossible for anyone to know with any reasonable certainty whether Hunter will be a good player or not. 

Given that, it's hard to blame people who prefer to be hopeful.

Nothing wrong with being hopeful. I hope our rookies end up great too.  I don't expect it though. I expect them to spend all their time in d league.  As of right now, I can't say that Charlotte made a mistake when they turned down all three 2015 picks + some unprotected Brooklyn picks.   Let's see if Danny is proven wrong for offering it.  Let's see if the hornets are proven wrong for rejecting it.

Will Winslow (or kaminsky) end up a greater asset than Mickey, hosier, Hunter and the unprotected Brooklyn pick combined ?  Probably.  Hence why Danny offered it and Jordan rejected it.

 

I wish I knew how we could bet on this LarryBird.  Frank the Charmin Tank will be yet another HUGE MISTAKE by MJ.  Another white flame out in Charlotte.  Hello Adam Morrison.  Maybe Frank the Tank can lessen the beating that you are still getting in my living area!!!!

Smitty77

[LarBrd33]

You could probably compile a similarly extensive list of "productive NBA players who had similar/worse SL stats to RJ Hunter." 

SL stats just don't provide a lot of information in general, and at this point it's impossible for anyone to know with any reasonable certainty whether Hunter will be a good player or not. 

Given that, it's hard to blame people who prefer to be hopeful.

Nothing wrong with being hopeful. I hope our rookies end up great too.  I don't expect it though. I expect them to spend all their time in d league.  As of right now, I can't say that Charlotte made a mistake when they turned down all three 2015 picks + some unprotected Brooklyn picks.   Let's see if Danny is proven wrong for offering it.  Let's see if the hornets are proven wrong for rejecting it.

Will Winslow (or kaminsky) end up a greater asset than Mickey, hosier, Hunter and the unprotected Brooklyn pick combined ?  Probably.  Hence why Danny offered it and Jordan rejected it.

 

I wish I knew how we could bet on this LarryBird.  Frank the Charmin Tank will be yet another HUGE MISTAKE by MJ.  Another white flame out in Charlotte.  Hello Adam Morrison.  Maybe Frank the Tank can lessen the beating that you are still getting in my living area!!!!

Smitty77

I don't think Danny would have taken frank there.  Pretty sure Danny would have taken Winslow.  So basically Danny Ainge believed the guy taken 10th was a more valuable asset than Rozier, Hunter, Mickey, and the unprotected Brooklyn 1st combined.   

[JBcat]

You could probably compile a similarly extensive list of "productive NBA players who had similar/worse SL stats to RJ Hunter." 

SL stats just don't provide a lot of information in general, and at this point it's impossible for anyone to know with any reasonable certainty whether Hunter will be a good player or not. 

Given that, it's hard to blame people who prefer to be hopeful.

Nothing wrong with being hopeful. I hope our rookies end up great too.  I don't expect it though. I expect them to spend all their time in d league.  As of right now, I can't say that Charlotte made a mistake when they turned down all three 2015 picks + some unprotected Brooklyn picks.   Let's see if Danny is proven wrong for offering it.  Let's see if the hornets are proven wrong for rejecting it.

Will Winslow (or kaminsky) end up a greater asset than Mickey, hosier, Hunter and the unprotected Brooklyn pick combined ?  Probably.  Hence why Danny offered it and Jordan rejected it.

Hosier?!? I hope he is as good as Rozier.

[Smitty77]

You did a mini research project with the primary goal of being a wet blanket for a few excited fans? You must kill at cocktail parties.

Absolutely hilarious!!!

Smitty77

[oldtype]

You could probably compile a similarly extensive list of "productive NBA players who had similar/worse SL stats to RJ Hunter." 

SL stats just don't provide a lot of information in general, and at this point it's impossible for anyone to know with any reasonable certainty whether Hunter will be a good player or not. 

Given that, it's hard to blame people who prefer to be hopeful.

Nothing wrong with being hopeful. I hope our rookies end up great too.  I don't expect it though. I expect them to spend all their time in d league.  As of right now, I can't say that Charlotte made a mistake when they turned down all three 2015 picks + some unprotected Brooklyn picks.   Let's see if Danny is proven wrong for offering it.  Let's see if the hornets are proven wrong for rejecting it.

Will Winslow (or kaminsky) end up a greater asset than Mickey, hosier, Hunter and the unprotected Brooklyn pick combined ?  Probably.  Hence why Danny offered it and Jordan rejected it.

What's the point of this thread then? Nobody's been going around saying "I expect RJ Hunter to be a great player (well, except for a few crazy people.)" This thread comes offlike you want people who even hoped to feel foolish. 

I also don't think it's at all probable that all three of the rookies spend all their time in the D-League. None of them are super-raw projects and rotation minutes - even if they're only Pressy or Datome level minutes - will be there.