'Dont get carried away its SL' (Fixed)

[kraidstar]

Not overreacting but, they have performed better compared to last years summer league team.

Granted Marcus Smart has had 1 year of NBA experience under his belt, but I'm talking about the new guys, Rozier, RJ, and Mickey.

They are solid.

They've performed better in their first summer league compared to Smart and Youngs or even Kelly's first summer league.

yet, not quite as good as did harangody in 2010, who put up something like 16.8 points and 6.8 rebounds per game in summer league.

and let's be fair and include those summer league MVPs glenn rice jr and josh selby.

where are they now?

the OP can believe what he wishes. i too hope the new guys are terrific. but we wont know until they prove it in the big show, and that may take a few years. summer league isnt enough to convince me of a player's ability. it can make me hopeful and pay attention, but that is all.

simple.

come on, now.

what was luke harangody good at? he had no elite skills whatsoever. i've watched a lot of d-league games, and most of these summer league stars really just look like good d-leaguers. they get stats because somebody has to.

but these guys are different.

rozier has great slashing ability and a nice pull-up jumper. when he drives the ball he already looks better than a lot of good NBA guards.

same with mickey's blocks - on some of those he's taking away sure-fire baskets when the defense has been beaten. he's getting to spots that look impossible to reach. not many guys can make some of the plays he's making, regardless of the level of opposition.

hunter's quick jumpers will start to go down - he has a sweet stroke. and unlike james young, he seems to have a good head on his shoulders, and will get opportunities because he has a well-rounded game.

it's not just the stats that matter, it's how those stats are earned. and so far, all 3 rookies look like they have potentially valuable NBA skills, and they're also doing it within a team framework that's earning them wins.

[Hardwood Harry]

That one game killed his shooting percentage.

All things considered, I would rather see our guys do well than not do well.   Summer league is summer league and not a great prognosticator.   But they have Celtics on their Jersey and I want them to win and do well.

You would think that this being a C's board.... Not saying we have to all wear rose colored glasses but these kids can flat out play and they are doing it against some of the best summer league competition ever. As the game grows, so does the competition. The ones crying about our optimism are the same ones who will be TRYING to lead the charge if these kids pan out.

[Scintan]

The refrain 'don't get carried away its summer league' is what pessimists say when they are confronted with evidence.

No, it's what people who've watched professional sports know about exhibition games, especially when they aren't even against the elite-level players.

But these players can play though.

You hope.

Well they showed me enough that they're capable.

Then your judgment is useless, because your analysis is based on nothing worthwhile.

Wow...cranky

It's not meant to be.  I'm just referring to the relative uselessness of the summer leagues in terms of  being sure about what you've got as an NBA player.

[tarheelsxxiii]

They can absolutely play. But, if you already haven't, watch a few other teams and you'll notice a lot of guys are putting up similar stats that we probably wouldn't collectively project to be very good NBA players. Then, compare the observables being discussed among our guys to other elite prospects (Mudiay, Towns) and those *flashes* of brilliance are qualitatively different. Hopefully our guys fall somewhere in between those we aren't impressed with and those that turn heads. Maybe one could become a head-turner as well, who knows? I'd love to see Rozier become Wade lite/Lowry.

[Rondo9]

The refrain 'don't get carried away its summer league' is what pessimists say when they are confronted with evidence.

No, it's what people who've watched professional sports know about exhibition games, especially when they aren't even against the elite-level players.

But these players can play though.

You hope.

Well they showed me enough that they're capable.

Then your judgment is useless, because your analysis is based on nothing worthwhile.

What's with the insults? All I stated was my observations. Just because you don't find anything worthwhile doesn't mean you can put down other people who do.

[CelticsFanFromNYC]

The refrain 'don't get carried away its summer league' is what pessimists say when they are confronted with evidence.

No, it's what people who've watched professional sports know about exhibition games, especially when they aren't even against the elite-level players.

But these players can play though.

You hope.

Well they showed me enough that they're capable.

Then your judgment is useless, because your analysis is based on nothing worthwhile.

What's with the insults? All I stated was my observations. Just because you don't find anything worthwhile doesn't mean you can put down other people who do.

Bro... Like really??  Just because people had great SL careers and bust  DOES NOT mean you cant have optimism based on SL play. Is Rozier and Mickey same person as Anthony Marrow, Anthony Randolph??? I think not

Its not like anyone is  saying SL will tell their exact future. Its the freaking NBA off season and we like to talk highly bout our prospects  doing well just like every other NBA fan is doing on their teams blogs. Unless you played in the NBA,  or coach it, you have NO CLUE how to gaugue professional players or how the NBA Summer League truly correlates to the NBA Season

[Jon]

The refrain 'don't get carried away its summer league' is what pessimists say when they are confronted with evidence.

No, it's what people who've watched professional sports know about exhibition games, especially when they aren't even against the elite-level players.

But these players can play though.

You hope.

Well they showed me enough that they're capable.

Then your judgment is useless, because your analysis is based on nothing worthwhile.

What's with the insults? All I stated was my observations. Just because you don't find anything worthwhile doesn't mean you can put down other people who do.

Bro... Like really??  Just because people had great SL careers and bust  DOES NOT mean you cant have optimism based on SL play. Is Rozier and Mickey same person as Anthony Marrow, Anthony Randolph??? I think not

Its not like anyone is  saying SL will tell their exact future. Its the freaking NBA off season and we like to talk highly bout our prospects  doing well just like every other NBA fan is doing on their teams blogs. Unless you played in the NBA,  or coach it, you have NO CLUE how to gaugue professional players or how the NBA Summer League truly correlates to the NBA Season

See, this is where the optimism gets ridiculous. I buy into Danny's plan. I buy into his picks. But the overwhelming amount of evidence shows that not only does the summer league mean nothing, so does a short term amount of NBA production (see my previous post in this thread). So yes, anyone could be right about these prospects now. But the overwhelming body evidence shows that the summer league has no bearing on that assessment. So we can't sit here and say that a few (let's face it, no one in green has even lit it up all that much) good performances mean anything, good or bad.

[CelticsFanFromNYC]

The refrain 'don't get carried away its summer league' is what pessimists say when they are confronted with evidence.

No, it's what people who've watched professional sports know about exhibition games, especially when they aren't even against the elite-level players.

But these players can play though.

You hope.

Well they showed me enough that they're capable.

Then your judgment is useless, because your analysis is based on nothing worthwhile.

What's with the insults? All I stated was my observations. Just because you don't find anything worthwhile doesn't mean you can put down other people who do.

Bro... Like really??  Just because people had great SL careers and bust  DOES NOT mean you cant have optimism based on SL play. Is Rozier and Mickey same person as Anthony Marrow, Anthony Randolph??? I think not

Its not like anyone is  saying SL will tell their exact future. Its the freaking NBA off season and we like to talk highly bout our prospects  doing well just like every other NBA fan is doing on their teams blogs. Unless you played in the NBA,  or coach it, you have NO CLUE how to gaugue professional players or how the NBA Summer League truly correlates to the NBA Season

See, this is where the optimism gets ridiculous. I buy into Danny's plan. I buy into his picks. But the overwhelming amount of evidence shows that not only does the summer league mean nothing, so does a short term amount of NBA production (see my previous post in this thread). So yes, anyone could be right about these prospects now. But the overwhelming body evidence shows that the summer league has no bearing on that assessment. So we can't sit here and say that a few (let's face it, no one in green has even lit it up all that much) good performances mean anything, good or bad.

I agree with most of what you said but for someone to state someone elses judgement is "useless"   is pure stupidity.  Of course SL only can tell so much if not any at all ut, sometimes these judgments pan out. not much at all but they do. Optimism is never a bad thing but I do agree it can get carried away. (especially talking trade value)   but in noway is someones observation of a player based on SL is "useless"

[Jon]

The refrain 'don't get carried away its summer league' is what pessimists say when they are confronted with evidence.

No, it's what people who've watched professional sports know about exhibition games, especially when they aren't even against the elite-level players.

But these players can play though.

You hope.

Well they showed me enough that they're capable.

Then your judgment is useless, because your analysis is based on nothing worthwhile.

What's with the insults? All I stated was my observations. Just because you don't find anything worthwhile doesn't mean you can put down other people who do.

Bro... Like really??  Just because people had great SL careers and bust  DOES NOT mean you cant have optimism based on SL play. Is Rozier and Mickey same person as Anthony Marrow, Anthony Randolph??? I think not

Its not like anyone is  saying SL will tell their exact future. Its the freaking NBA off season and we like to talk highly bout our prospects  doing well just like every other NBA fan is doing on their teams blogs. Unless you played in the NBA,  or coach it, you have NO CLUE how to gaugue professional players or how the NBA Summer League truly correlates to the NBA Season

See, this is where the optimism gets ridiculous. I buy into Danny's plan. I buy into his picks. But the overwhelming amount of evidence shows that not only does the summer league mean nothing, so does a short term amount of NBA production (see my previous post in this thread). So yes, anyone could be right about these prospects now. But the overwhelming body evidence shows that the summer league has no bearing on that assessment. So we can't sit here and say that a few (let's face it, no one in green has even lit it up all that much) good performances mean anything, good or bad.

I agree with most of what you said but for someone to state someone elses judgement is "useless"   is pure stupidity.  Of course SL only can tell so much if not any at all ut, sometimes these judgments pan out. not much at all but they do. Optimism is never a bad thing but I do agree it can get carried away. (especially talking trade value)   but in noway is someones observation of a player based on SL is "useless"

Well, I never said it was useless (though I know an earlier poster did). But I would say it is close to being useless. I see what other posters see. I see Rozier's athleticism, Hunter's potential shooting touch (though he isn't hitting them) and court smarts, and Mickey's toughness and saavy. But I have also seen the likes of Jerome Moiso, Kris Clack, Kedrick Brown, Bill Walker and J.R. Giddens athletically dominate the summer league. I have also seen the poise and shooting touch of players like Joe Forte, Luke Harangody, J.R. Bremer, and E'Twaun Moore impress during the summer months. I have also seen C's fans become obsessed with undersized big men like Brandon Hunter, Ryan Gomes, Big Baby, and Leon Powe who became glorified role players at best.

So yes, I hope our rookies are every bit as good as the most optimistic posters on the board hope they are. But to pretend that there's anything more than an outside shot at that happening is just ignoring the facts of life as we have seen them for a decade plus.

[CelticsFanFromNYC]

Fair enough answer for me! TP!!    I got cha though, I fell in love with Jeffs Green's game when he was a Celtic and all the optimism in the world didnt change him!

[sawick48]

I am not getting carried away, I am just full - meaning I have seen enough to believe that Rozier and Hunter are the real deal, and Ainge/CBS made the right picks at these positions. Their style of play is where the NBA is headed and it fits right with the personnel of the Celtics.
Their shooting, ball handling, passing, and ability to drive to the basket is going to make things open up for how short range game bigs. The alley hoop is going to be there too because defendants have to stay home with these guys, and we have the athletes to go get the back door alley hoop passes.

The refrain 'don't get carried away its summer league' is what pessimists say when they are confronted with evidence. The way I see it a team or player can only play the team on the floor that does not mean that team or player cannot show you their proficiency and understanding of the game. Once you see the players proficiency the only thing better competition brings is strength and speed. Rozier has speed in spades, and the body to gain strength. Hunter has the body and length to gain strength and counter any speed deficiency.

These kids are for real.

Kedrick Brown.  so let's wait and see real nba players on defense before even going so far as to say they're for real.

[Rondo9]

The refrain 'don't get carried away its summer league' is what pessimists say when they are confronted with evidence.

No, it's what people who've watched professional sports know about exhibition games, especially when they aren't even against the elite-level players.

But these players can play though.

You hope.

Well they showed me enough that they're capable.

Then your judgment is useless, because your analysis is based on nothing worthwhile.

What's with the insults? All I stated was my observations. Just because you don't find anything worthwhile doesn't mean you can put down other people who do.

Bro... Like really??  Just because people had great SL careers and bust  DOES NOT mean you cant have optimism based on SL play. Is Rozier and Mickey same person as Anthony Marrow, Anthony Randolph??? I think not

Its not like anyone is  saying SL will tell their exact future. Its the freaking NBA off season and we like to talk highly bout our prospects  doing well just like every other NBA fan is doing on their teams blogs. Unless you played in the NBA,  or coach it, you have NO CLUE how to gaugue professional players or how the NBA Summer League truly correlates to the NBA Season

See, this is where the optimism gets ridiculous. I buy into Danny's plan. I buy into his picks. But the overwhelming amount of evidence shows that not only does the summer league mean nothing, so does a short term amount of NBA production (see my previous post in this thread). So yes, anyone could be right about these prospects now. But the overwhelming body evidence shows that the summer league has no bearing on that assessment. So we can't sit here and say that a few (let's face it, no one in green has even lit it up all that much) good performances mean anything, good or bad.

I agree with most of what you said but for someone to state someone elses judgement is "useless"   is pure stupidity.  Of course SL only can tell so much if not any at all ut, sometimes these judgments pan out. not much at all but they do. Optimism is never a bad thing but I do agree it can get carried away. (especially talking trade value)   but in noway is someones observation of a player based on SL is "useless"

Well, I never said it was useless (though I know an earlier poster did). But I would say it is close to being useless. I see what other posters see. I see Rozier's athleticism, Hunter's potential shooting touch (though he isn't hitting them) and court smarts, and Mickey's toughness and saavy. But I have also seen the likes of Jerome Moiso, Kris Clack, Kedrick Brown, Bill Walker and J.R. Giddens athletically dominate the summer league. I have also seen the poise and shooting touch of players like Joe Forte, Luke Harangody, J.R. Bremer, and E'Twaun Moore impress during the summer months. I have also seen C's fans become obsessed with undersized big men like Brandon Hunter, Ryan Gomes, Big Baby, and Leon Powe who became glorified role players at best.

So yes, I hope our rookies are every bit as good as the most optimistic posters on the board hope they are. But to pretend that there's anything more than an outside shot at that happening is just ignoring the facts of life as we have seen them for a decade plus.

Well it's starts to become a problem when other posters start to bash your point of view.

[Scintan]

The refrain 'don't get carried away its summer league' is what pessimists say when they are confronted with evidence.

No, it's what people who've watched professional sports know about exhibition games, especially when they aren't even against the elite-level players.

But these players can play though.

You hope.

Well they showed me enough that they're capable.

Then your judgment is useless, because your analysis is based on nothing worthwhile.

What's with the insults? All I stated was my observations. Just because you don't find anything worthwhile doesn't mean you can put down other people who do.

I didn't insult you and, since you're not the only one who took my post that way, I apologize since it's obvious that I was not being clear enough.  I'll try again.

I was not trying to say that your judgment is useless in general, or that you aren't capable of forming your own opinion, or anything derogatory towards you at all, personally.  All I was saying is that your judgment can only be as good as what it's based on.  It's like saying that you're sure a guy who can hit in triple A will hit in the Majors.  Jackie Bradley, Jr. wishes that were true, but it hasn't been for him, so far.

Will apparent skill translate from the summer leagues to the NBA?  The best you can do is to hope it will, which is what I'd said in response to you earlier.  If even the best scouts don't know for sure, neither you nor I are going to know for sure, either.

[saltlover]

Seriously, it's better to have your bunch of draft picks and 2nd year guys playing better basketball than the other guys draft picks and 2nd years than not, and it's fun to have something to root for in the summer.  I don't understand this debate.  Enjoy the fun!

[Roy H.]

I'd love to see somebody run an actual statistical analysis attempting to measure summer league success as a predictor of future NBA success.

I tend to agree that it's something not to put too much stock in, one way or the other.  Poor players have dominated summer league.  Good players have shown little.  Most "unearthed gems" who are signed by NBA teams as flyers coming out of summer league seem to fizzle.

That said, it gives fans a glimpse at the guys they will be rooting for, and a better sense of what their skills are.  I understand the optimism about Mickey and Holmes, and I'm not going to pee in anybody's Cheerios.  At the same time, if somebody else is going to keep their hype in check, I think that's completely fair, too.